Myles Turner complaining about his role in Indiana?

[GiggitySmalls]

Feel like the Hornets would be the best fit. They could increase his role with LaMelo

We've got a bunch of scorers but everyone is happy with their roles. That's what happens when you have a fast pace, ball movement oriented offense, and a PG with elite vision that inspires folks to share the ball.

I think Turner would love it here.

Pj and a pick maybe add Cody?

[BostonCouchGM]

Turner to Golden State for Wiseman, Looney and Moody makes too much sense not to happen.

that's actually a very good deal and makes total sense. I think IND kills it because I happen to believe Wiseman and Moody are both going to be well above average starters but Turner is that NOW and fills a role so worth it for GSW. He would fit in seemlessly providing the shot blocking and ability to spread the floor.

[God Squad]

Lets be honest. There have been "role" players that have been great, and when giving a larger role provide/show they can be more that "role" players. But I'm not sure that's Myles, most of the time watching him I feel underwhelmed by his overall activity.

[SharpyShuffle]

Tried to warn y’all about Rick.

Sabonis and Turner are both getting used terribly

It's not Ricks fault that the team is poorly constructed. Sabonis and Turner have never been an ideal pairing. Also Caris Levert wasn't a good signing and kills a ton of momentum for that team. They just need a full tear down and would need one regardless who the coach is.

They're not an ideal pairing but they do fit quite well - the strengths of one are the weaknesses of the other for the most part, and since Turner can hit 3s the paint doesn't get clogged.

The issue is not neccessarily fit, it's that they're not good enough to carry a team. You would basically need to fuse the two of them together to get the strengths of one Joel Embiid...Sabonis and Turner are both very much '3rd best player on a good team' types, and are not going to carry you anywhere. You may aswell expect your team to be carried by Jrue or Siakam or someone like that.

[lamscott]

Hello Pacer fans. Would you like any of our trash for Myles? Please?!!!

[cupcakesnake]

Turner has a legitimate complaint here. He's a dedicated center, but the team already has an All-Star level player who is also a dedicated center and there's no way to avoid playing them together without cutting one player's minutes (Sabonis is favored here with 34 MPG while Turner is at 29 MPG).

His usage rate is 16.8% this season in spite of him posting 65.5% True Shooting and 39.7% 3 point percentage, and he's shooting great percentages from every distance. Seems head scratching that a high efficiency scorer who has a diverse offensive game is such low usage, meanwhile LeVert is the highest usage rate on the team in spite of the disappointing season he's having.

what legit complaint? hes 10ppg scorer in a inflated scoring era. even sabonis is a mediocre sub 20 guy.

Not sure what you're talking about here. With the rare exception of last year, the Pacers played around a pace of 98 possessions per 100. That would fit right in as an average pace in the early 90s. Where is the inflation coming from? Because scoring is easier? Scoring for big men has been brutal since they changed the rules for Shaq in the early 2000s. What big man benefits, scoring-wise, in this era?

You're making big sweeping takes that don't hold up to any scrutiny. Also, Turner averages 13ppg.

I don't think Turner should be complaining about his role either, but the reasons you're giving ain't it.

[John Murdoch]

Any chance Carlisle leaves? Im sure he didnt leavd Dallas to go to a full on rebuild somewhere

[NoStatsGuy]

Alright so there are problems in Indiana.

There was a poster last month saying Turner was a Carlisle favorite.

We really know nothing as fans lol

I think that was me. I mean I've definitely said it. Feel free to clown me.

Now to be clear what I was saying specifically was that when Rick was still coaching Dallas the opposing player he raved about the most was Turner. He constantly was praising him as the ideal modern center.

Now I fully concede that its possible that once he had Turner playing for him, he doesn't like him near as much. But my guess is Carlisle still really likes him, but simply has a different view of how to use him from how Turner would like to be used. Rick loves centers who can protect the rim and either rim run or shoot 3's on offense. If Turner sees himself in more of a Sabonis role, I'd find it unlikely any coach wants to use him like that, much less Carlisle.

the only thing im wondering about is, are "ideal modern centers" just role players?

you need to be a good screener and able to catch a lane alley oop, be able to switch on Pick and Rolls, hit an open 3 and stretch the floor for your wings and guards. more and more i feel like this is what Teams want out of their centers these days.

someone like jokic is a very rare type of player.

[ciueli]

the only thing im wondering about is, are "ideal modern centers" just role players?

you need to be a good screener and able to catch a lane alley oop, be able to switch on Pick and Rolls, hit an open 3 and stretch the floor for your wings and guards. more and more i feel like this is what Teams want out of their centers these days.

someone like jokic is a very rare type of player.

The ideal modern center is not just a role player. Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, and Karl-Anthony Towns are all players that would be brought up as ideal modern centers and none of them are role players, all are high usage players and top tier scorers for their respective teams.

I don't really see this being massively different than any other position in the NBA, how many "ideal" modern PFs are in the NBA right now? Maybe Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and LeBron James? And it's not even clear that any of those guys are dedicated full time PFs, they all wind up playing other positions at times, LeBron is actually listed as an SF this year.

[dkb965]

Feel like the Hornets would be the best fit. They could increase his role with LaMelo

We've got a bunch of scorers but everyone is happy with their roles. That's what happens when you have a fast pace, ball movement oriented offense, and a PG with elite vision that inspires folks to share the ball.

I think Turner would love it here.

Pj and a pick maybe add Cody?

You are getting your Zellers and Plumlees mixed up I think.

Plumlee/Washington/Bouknight for Turner works money wise.

[Flash Falcon X]

Turner to Golden State for Wiseman, Looney and Moody makes too much sense not to happen.

I'd rather keep Wiseman.

Wiseman averaged almost the same amount of points and rebounds as Turner last season despite being a 19-year-old teenager who barely played college ball and didn't have an NBA Training Camp or Preseason due to COVID. Wiseman also has potential to be a stretch big even with his size as I can see him increasing his average from 31% to maybe mid to high 30s.

Turner in Golden State would be treated as a role player having to play behind Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green; even Jordan Poole would have big games over Turner, too.

Also, Moody could develop into a surprise player in the future. His stats are bad right now but he's also only 19-years-old and learning the system. Just scored 37 points in the G-League the other night, so with some patience he'll gain some experience and could develop into a productive role player who can hit 3s in Kerr's system.

[nate33]

Turner to Golden State for Wiseman, Looney and Moody makes too much sense not to happen.

I'd rather keep Wiseman.

Wiseman averaged almost the same amount of points and rebounds as Turner last season despite being a 19-year-old teenager who barely played college ball and didn't have an NBA Training Camp or Preseason due to COVID. Wiseman also has potential to be a stretch big even with his size as I can see him increasing his average from 31% to maybe mid to high 30s.

Turner in Golden State would be treated as a role player having to play behind Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green; even Jordan Poole would have big games over Turner, too.

Also, Moody could develop into a surprise player in the future. His stats are bad right now but he's also only 19-years-old and learning the system. Just scored 37 points in the G-League the other night, so with some patience he'll gain some experience and could develop into a productive role player who can hit 3s in Kerr's system.

It's a gamble. I understand why you would want Wiseman for the long term, but the future is now for Golden State. Curry is only going to have so many elite seasons left and you want to make sure you maximize his chances at a championship. The fact is, starting center is, by far, the weakest position on the roster. If you can upgrade it by adding an above-average starting center with a perfectly matching skillset (who is still fairly young in his own right, at age 25) you really ought to consider it.

It's not about points and rebounds. It's about positional awareness and defensive aptitude. The advanced stats consider Turner to be one of the very best defensive centers in the game. Wiseman is so bad defensively that Golden State improved dramatically after he got hurt and couldn't play anymore. The fact is, Wiseman is years away from being a positive player. If you win a championship this year, it's going to be without Wiseman playing a significant role.

[NoStatsGuy]

the only thing im wondering about is, are "ideal modern centers" just role players?

you need to be a good screener and able to catch a lane alley oop, be able to switch on Pick and Rolls, hit an open 3 and stretch the floor for your wings and guards. more and more i feel like this is what Teams want out of their centers these days.

someone like jokic is a very rare type of player.

The ideal modern center is not just a role player. Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, and Karl-Anthony Towns are all players that would be brought up as ideal modern centers and none of them are role players, all are high usage players and top tier scorers for their respective teams.

I don't really see this being massively different than any other position in the NBA, how many "ideal" modern PFs are in the NBA right now? Maybe Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and LeBron James? And it's not even clear that any of those guys are dedicated full time PFs, they all wind up playing other positions at times, LeBron is actually listed as an SF this year.

mhh maybe i should've been more clear on my point. you are 100% right, obviously.

but if carlisle said what he said about turner, what does he think about the ideal modern center? the players that you mentioned are many tiers above turner, i think we can agree to that.

Also these are 4 guys out of how many centers in the NBA? i only mentioned one, but all of them are talents, that dont come around often, no matter their size. their talent and skills are standards that you cant maesure every NBA center by. I wouldnt say these 4 guys are "ideal centers" i would call them exceptional players on their position. thats a huge difference in my opinion. and btw davis would tell you different about how he feels being a center, davis wants to be a 4.

Lets stick to a guy like Embiid or KAT, put them on the warriors for example. i dont think their skillsets are ideal for that system and that playstyle. Both are still playing pretty old school from time to time with post ups and back to the basket play. obvisouly its all in the theory and on paper, i dont know how they would adjust to that system and curry. maybe they would find their spots. but they both are clogging the lanes and barely stretch the floor for guard/wing playmaking style, which is considered "ideal" these days.

The skillset that i mentioned above, is something every NBA team wants and that helps every team, thats what i would consider ideal. everything else what comes with it, is a bonus.

idk maybe im wrong about all this. you tell me.

[xdrta+]

Turner to Golden State for Wiseman, Looney and Moody makes too much sense not to happen.

I'd rather keep Wiseman.

Wiseman averaged almost the same amount of points and rebounds as Turner last season despite being a 19-year-old teenager who barely played college ball and didn't have an NBA Training Camp or Preseason due to COVID. Wiseman also has potential to be a stretch big even with his size as I can see him increasing his average from 31% to maybe mid to high 30s.

Turner in Golden State would be treated as a role player having to play behind Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green; even Jordan Poole would have big games over Turner, too.

Also, Moody could develop into a surprise player in the future. His stats are bad right now but he's also only 19-years-old and learning the system. Just scored 37 points in the G-League the other night, so with some patience he'll gain some experience and could develop into a productive role player who can hit 3s in Kerr's system.

It's a gamble. I understand why you would want Wiseman for the long term, but the future is now for Golden State. Curry is only going to have so many elite seasons left and you want to make sure you maximize his chances at a championship. The fact is, starting center is, by far, the weakest position on the roster. If you can upgrade it by adding an above-average starting center with a perfectly matching skillset (who is still fairly young in his own right, at age 25) you really ought to consider it.

It's not about points and rebounds. It's about positional awareness and defensive aptitude. The advanced stats consider Turner to be one of the very best defensive centers in the game. Wiseman is so bad defensively that Golden State improved dramatically after he got hurt and couldn't play anymore. The fact is, Wiseman is years away from being a positive player. If you win a championship this year, it's going to be without Wiseman playing a significant role.

That trade will never happen, for many reasons. GS feels they can contend this year as is, and they take a longer view than you do, so they won't be trading any of their young guys, Wiseman, Moody, or Kuminga. Finances also play a part. For a detailed view, see Kawakami yesterday,

"Why the Warriors absolutely, positively are not trading James Wiseman"
https://theathletic.com/3006586/2021/12/09/kawakami-why-the-warriors-absolutely-positively-are-not-trading-james-wiseman/

[ciueli]

mhh maybe i should've been more clear on my point. you are 100% right, obviously.

but if carlisle said what he said about turner, what does he think about the ideal modern center? the players that you mentioned are many tiers above turner, i think we can agree to that.

Also these are 4 guys out of how many centers in the NBA? i only mentioned one, but all of them are talents, that dont come around often, no matter their size. their talent and skills are standards that you cant maesure every NBA center by. I wouldnt say these 4 guys are "ideal centers" i would call them exceptional players on their position. thats a huge difference in my opinion. and btw davis would tell you different about how he feels being a center, davis wants to be a 4.

Lets stick to a guy like Embiid or KAT, put them on the warriors for example. i dont think their skillsets are ideal for that system and that playstyle. Both are still playing pretty old school from time to time with post ups and back to the basket play. obvisouly its all in the theory and on paper, i dont know how they would adjust to that system and curry. maybe they would find their spots. but they both are clogging the lanes and barely stretch the floor for guard/wing playmaking style, which is considered "ideal" these days.

The skillset that i mentioned above, is something every NBA team wants and that helps every team, thats what i would consider ideal. everything else what comes with it, is a bonus.

idk maybe im wrong about all this. you tell me.

If you're arguing that Turner should just be happy with what he has and accept his spot in the pecking order behind LeVert, Brogdon, and Sabonis as a role player on a bad team because that's what the NBA is expecting out of centers these days unless they're an elite perennial All-Star, I'll have to disagree.

Maybe if he was playing the Brook Lopez role on the Bucks or replacing Kevon Looney on the Golden State Warriors with a chance to win a title he'd be happier and more accepting, but he plays for the underachieving Pacers instead. You really can't blame a player like him from wanting a bigger role on a team that might win more games and better showcase what he can do as the main starting center, he's playing for his next contract and certainly wants the opportunity to show he is worth at least as much as a guy like Jarrett Allen.

[nate33]

I'd rather keep Wiseman.

Wiseman averaged almost the same amount of points and rebounds as Turner last season despite being a 19-year-old teenager who barely played college ball and didn't have an NBA Training Camp or Preseason due to COVID. Wiseman also has potential to be a stretch big even with his size as I can see him increasing his average from 31% to maybe mid to high 30s.

Turner in Golden State would be treated as a role player having to play behind Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green; even Jordan Poole would have big games over Turner, too.

Also, Moody could develop into a surprise player in the future. His stats are bad right now but he's also only 19-years-old and learning the system. Just scored 37 points in the G-League the other night, so with some patience he'll gain some experience and could develop into a productive role player who can hit 3s in Kerr's system.

It's a gamble. I understand why you would want Wiseman for the long term, but the future is now for Golden State. Curry is only going to have so many elite seasons left and you want to make sure you maximize his chances at a championship. The fact is, starting center is, by far, the weakest position on the roster. If you can upgrade it by adding an above-average starting center with a perfectly matching skillset (who is still fairly young in his own right, at age 25) you really ought to consider it.

It's not about points and rebounds. It's about positional awareness and defensive aptitude. The advanced stats consider Turner to be one of the very best defensive centers in the game. Wiseman is so bad defensively that Golden State improved dramatically after he got hurt and couldn't play anymore. The fact is, Wiseman is years away from being a positive player. If you win a championship this year, it's going to be without Wiseman playing a significant role.

That trade will never happen, for many reasons. GS feels they can contend this year as is, and they take a longer view than you do, so they won't be trading any of their young guys, Wiseman, Moody, or Kuminga. Finances also play a part. For a detailed view, see Kawakami yesterday,

"Why the Warriors absolutely, positively are not trading James Wiseman"
https://theathletic.com/3006586/2021/12/09/kawakami-why-the-warriors-absolutely-positively-are-not-trading-james-wiseman/

Interesting. Thanks for the link, though he doesn't really make much of a case why they won't trade Wiseman. He certainly doesn't make a financial case. Turner is locked up until summer 2023, which is when Wiggins comes off the books, so the true cap differential is only the slightly modest difference between Turner and Wiseman + Moody + Looney.

It basically boils down to, "we really like Wiseman's potential". Fine. But as I said, it's a big risk. The Warriors are good, but they're not sure thing favorites over Phoenix, Milwaukee and Brooklyn. Trading for Turner now would significantly boost their ceiling.

[NoStatsGuy]

mhh maybe i should've been more clear on my point. you are 100% right, obviously.

but if carlisle said what he said about turner, what does he think about the ideal modern center? the players that you mentioned are many tiers above turner, i think we can agree to that.

Also these are 4 guys out of how many centers in the NBA? i only mentioned one, but all of them are talents, that dont come around often, no matter their size. their talent and skills are standards that you cant maesure every NBA center by. I wouldnt say these 4 guys are "ideal centers" i would call them exceptional players on their position. thats a huge difference in my opinion. and btw davis would tell you different about how he feels being a center, davis wants to be a 4.

Lets stick to a guy like Embiid or KAT, put them on the warriors for example. i dont think their skillsets are ideal for that system and that playstyle. Both are still playing pretty old school from time to time with post ups and back to the basket play. obvisouly its all in the theory and on paper, i dont know how they would adjust to that system and curry. maybe they would find their spots. but they both are clogging the lanes and barely stretch the floor for guard/wing playmaking style, which is considered "ideal" these days.

The skillset that i mentioned above, is something every NBA team wants and that helps every team, thats what i would consider ideal. everything else what comes with it, is a bonus.

idk maybe im wrong about all this. you tell me.

If you're arguing that Turner should just be happy with what he has and accept his spot in the pecking order behind LeVert, Brogdon, and Sabonis as a role player on a bad team because that's what the NBA is expecting out of centers these days unless they're an elite perennial All-Star, I'll have to disagree.

Maybe if he was playing the Brook Lopez role on the Bucks or replacing Kevon Looney on the Golden State Warriors with a chance to win a title he'd be happier and more accepting, but he plays for the underachieving Pacers instead. You really can't blame a player like him from wanting a bigger role on a team that might win more games and better showcase what he can do as the main starting center, he's playing for his next contract and certainly wants the opportunity to show he is worth at least as much as a guy like Jarrett Allen.

yea you pretty much said exactly what i was thinking.

my posts are not a knock on turner at all. i am very high on turner and drafted him into my keepers team 2 or 3 years ago after all because i thought he can be much more than just a role player. my posts criticizes carlisle and what he thought an ideal center would be. And also what coaches these days understand as ideal playstyle and an ideal modern day center.

i miss the shaqs, Hakeems, etc. i love and appreciate postplay and think its very beautiful to watch. im remembering the 1 or 2 years where LMA was rly good and just finessed everybody on the block, it was poetry in motion.

i just think carlisle had exactly that in mind when i read the quote. A role player, most centers are roleplayers these days. and thats what he considered ideal. Now, he doesnt want to give turner a bigger role because he thinks he already is the ideal center and doesnt want much more. besides Carlisle never really featured centers, dirk was not a center back then and played the 4. Jermaine O'Neal was the closest thing to a featured center in a carlisle system and even that was more of a 4 than a 5.

KAT, Jokic, Embiid and maybe davis, if you consider him a center are not just ideal centers, they are much more than that.

[DaPessimist]

The prototype for a Championship Center in the modern NBA is a 3rd/4th option who can set picks, hit 3's, protect the rim, and switch on defense without getting abused. I personally don't believe you can win a title in the modern NBA playing through your Center. Maybe Jokic or Embiid can prove me wrong in the near future, but I doubt it.

This is why I personally rank Turner so high. He checks all of the boxes without having to play through him. Now, if he starts demanding that the offense run through him... his value would drop significantly in my book, because he lacks the talent and skill set to be a 1st/2nd option. As a 3rd/4th option, he's everything a title contender should want.

[Spens1]

Hello Pacer fans. Would you like any of our trash for Myles? Please?!!!

One slightly used Russell Westbrook for Turner plz

[Appostis]

[list=][/list]

Turner to Golden State for Wiseman, Looney and Moody makes too much sense not to happen.

Why would Indiana do that though?

To rebuild with two young pieces, one of whom has extremely high upside.

..yeah not sure how this is a question.

Pretty obvious why they would do it. *Shrug