2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[AussieBuck]

Jokic on: 115.4/103.1 off/def +12.3
Jokic off: 102.6/116.9 off/def - 14.3
Net: +26.6

Giannis on: 115.1/102.4 off/def +12.6
Giannis off: 104.9/114.9 off/def -10
Net: +22.6

Curry on: 116.4/100.2 off/def +16.2
Curry off: 106.7/102.1 off/def +4.7
Net: +11.5

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim. If it was obvious then people would have a better record predicting how the Warriors would perform instead of being constantly wrong. Curry may well be the driving force.

There aren't any good publicly available defensive statistics that I'm aware of. Defensive rating is based on box score which is based on arbitrary ideas on the relative values of rebounds, assists and steals.

Box score has always been a poor measure of Curry's full impact. That people still keep relying on box scores to the extent that they do explains why they constantly keep underestimating him and getting stuff wrong. Are you one of those saying "who could have seen the Warriors leading the league with the best record at the beginning of the season?" Then this applies to you.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

[WarriorGM]

His team is also crapola and worst than the GSW team last season. Curry has taken more than a few games off this year alone (has the most down games from the 4 check if must). GSW are cracked out and have been smoking teams while he’s on the bench.

I think we need to go to the +/- stats here.

Here's the current league-wide leaderboard:

1. Steph Curry +306
2. Rudy Gobert +210
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo +204
4. Donovan Mitchell +197
5. Jordan Clarkson +181

Curry's separation not just from his teammates, but the entire rest of the league is just absurd. He's at nearly 50% above the next highest guy in the league.

Not making any predictions of him keeping it up, but suffice to say, if you haven't noticed Curry's night & day impact when he's on vs off the court, it's not because it isn't about as impressive as anything you've ever seen, it's that you haven't recognized what you're seeing for what it is.

My apologies for how harsh that probably sounds. I'm not trying to say that everyone else can see it and you can't, or even that I can literally "see it" just by watching the game, but in a nutshell, this is why we need to use data.

No thanks talking to a GSW fan. They have a +5 net rating when Curry sits that’s a great number and would beat .500 teams.

Fat chance Clarkson is a top 5 player in the comp.

Don’t think GSW dropped so far off the mark as Nuggets do this year relative wise when Jokic sits. He carries both their offense and defense not just one or the other.

Last time I checked Curry doesn’t give you near elite defense which GSW had.

Wasn’t it one of the adv metrics that paints Curry in an exorbitant light. Don’t answer it I’ll find it for myself

Dude can go 8/20 have 3+ turnovers and GSW win by 10. Not exactly best player impact.

Fail to acknowledge he’s had the most average games out of the four, but it’s Steph he does no wrong.

Hopefully I’m not talking to WarriorsGM he’s probably living in a different world with all this talk about his favorite son lol.

You're probably right that I'm living in a different world than you are. I'm living in this one where one should have been able to predict the Warriors were capable of winning 60 games at the beginning of this season like I did, whereas you're living somewhere else.

[WarriorGM]

Jokic on: 115.4/103.1 off/def +12.3
Jokic off: 102.6/116.9 off/def - 14.3
Net: +26.6

Giannis on: 115.1/102.4 off/def +12.6
Giannis off: 104.9/114.9 off/def -10
Net: +22.6

Curry on: 116.4/100.2 off/def +16.2
Curry off: 106.7/102.1 off/def +4.7
Net: +11.5

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim. If it was obvious then people would have a better record predicting how the Warriors would perform instead of being constantly wrong. Curry may well be the driving force.

There aren't any good publicly available defensive statistics that I'm aware of. Defensive rating is based on box score which is based on arbitrary ideas on the relative values of rebounds, assists and steals.

Box score has always been a poor measure of Curry's full impact. That people still keep relying on box scores to the extent that they do explains why they constantly keep underestimating him and getting stuff wrong. Are you one of those saying "who could have seen the Warriors leading the league with the best record at the beginning of the season?" Then this applies to you.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

Curry allows for the roster construction that the Warriors have and makes defensive pieces that would be near useless unplayable offensive liabilities elsewhere valuable on his team. Looking at the years Curry was out and then came back defensive rating of the Warriors went from 26th in 2020 to 5th in 2021.

[AussieBuck]

+1 for creativity and goal post shifting.

[SpreeS]

Jokic is the MVP but it’ll go to Curry. No qualms about it but Jokic has been the best player this year hands down. He’s playing like he’s clocked the game or some wizardry stuff right now.

His team is also crapola and worst than the GSW team last season. Curry has taken more than a few games off this year alone (has the most down games from the 4 check if must). GSW are cracked out and have been smoking teams while he’s on the bench.

This is the differences I see:

Last year when Curry was on the bench they couldn’t score (unless Wiggins went score mode which ironically happened later on, GSW was a playoff team when they decided to be, it was by design to tank/develop earlier on) but the defense kept them in it.

This year when Jokic is on the bench everything and I mean everything goes to sh*t lol.

This is the clear media bias:

Last year people, posters and media was all over Curry’s two raspberries and carrot stick when they didn’t make the playoffs for MVP. I think one or two said unanimous or some laughable bs.

This year Jokic and the Nuggets are 8th and it’s moving tumbleweeds and ho hums.

So which is it? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also Jokic could probably play with Kelly Oubre and Wiseman and make them look decent. Dude can play with anyone bad, sub average, average or good. Sucks he doesn’t have a truly great great player yet. Hopefully Murray comes back soon.

Been saying it for awhile Jokic is literally 7”1 Bird + Dirk. No not figuratively, he’s literally that.

Its so f'ing wrong and biased towards Jokic.

1. Last year GSW couldn't stay in games w/o Curry: OFFRTG 101.8 DEFRTG 107.4 NETRTG -5.6 with 2W/7L record
2. Malone rotation is something else in wrong way:

Jokic playing time %:
a) 0.624 with Gordon/Barton/Morris
b) 0.333 with one or two (Gordon/Barton/Morris)
c) 0.043 w/o Gordon/Barton/Morris

Malone leaves second unit w/o the best player or 2/3 good starters. Second unit collaps playing against opponents mix units every time. For expl GSW

Curry playing time %:
a) 0.473 with Green/Wiggins/Poole
b) 0.271 with one or two (Green/Wiggins/Poole)
c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

now look closer at c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

210min (Curry/Porter/Bjelica/Toscano/Payton)
ORTG 115.3
DRTG 91.9
NRTG +24.4

Curry and 4 min contracts smash oppenents mix units. And I guarantee, that the best opp defenders are on the floor....

3. Now Oubre/Wiseman, I dont want to start here...Maybe lets he starts play with second unit at first and help's them not collapse in every game.

[WarriorGM]

+1 for creativity and goal post shifting.

Goal post shifting? What was the goal?

Wins are the goal. That's why if you cannot explain the wins you will need to set aside or throw out your current way of doing things and find a new one that does.

[DCasey91]

I think we need to go to the +/- stats here.

Here's the current league-wide leaderboard:

1. Steph Curry +306
2. Rudy Gobert +210
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo +204
4. Donovan Mitchell +197
5. Jordan Clarkson +181

Curry's separation not just from his teammates, but the entire rest of the league is just absurd. He's at nearly 50% above the next highest guy in the league.

Not making any predictions of him keeping it up, but suffice to say, if you haven't noticed Curry's night & day impact when he's on vs off the court, it's not because it isn't about as impressive as anything you've ever seen, it's that you haven't recognized what you're seeing for what it is.

My apologies for how harsh that probably sounds. I'm not trying to say that everyone else can see it and you can't, or even that I can literally "see it" just by watching the game, but in a nutshell, this is why we need to use data.

No thanks talking to a GSW fan. They have a +5 net rating when Curry sits that’s a great number and would beat .500 teams.

Fat chance Clarkson is a top 5 player in the comp.

Don’t think GSW dropped so far off the mark as Nuggets do this year relative wise when Jokic sits. He carries both their offense and defense not just one or the other.

Last time I checked Curry doesn’t give you near elite defense which GSW had.

Wasn’t it one of the adv metrics that paints Curry in an exorbitant light. Don’t answer it I’ll find it for myself

Dude can go 8/20 have 3+ turnovers and GSW win by 10. Not exactly best player impact.

Fail to acknowledge he’s had the most average games out of the four, but it’s Steph he does no wrong.

Hopefully I’m not talking to WarriorsGM he’s probably living in a different world with all this talk about his favorite son lol.

You're probably right that I'm living in a different world than you are. I'm living in this one where one should have been able to predict the Warriors were capable of winning 60 games at the beginning of this season like I did, whereas you're living somewhere else.

Speak of the devil and he shall... yeah nah that’s enough for today I’m out have a good weekend c*nts and foes alike!

[AussieBuck]

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

Curry allows for the roster construction that the Warriors have and makes defensive pieces that would be near useless unplayable offensive liabilities elsewhere valuable on his team.

Despite your editing after the fact, this is indeed elite goal post shifting from disagreeing with my hardly controversial view that Curry is indeed not a DPOY type of guy to moving to arguing roster composition because of his offense. You're doing a total disservice to Curry's MVP case with this kind of posting.

[WarriorGM]

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

Curry allows for the roster construction that the Warriors have and makes defensive pieces that would be near useless unplayable offensive liabilities elsewhere valuable on his team.

Despite your editing after the fact, this is indeed elite goal post shifting from disagreeing with my hardly controversial view that Curry is indeed not a DPOY type of guy to moving to arguing roster composition because of his offense. You're doing a total disservice to Curry's MVP case with this kind of posting.

We're not talking about DPOY we're talking about MVP. DPOY in itself is an arbitrary idea that assigns a lot of value to certain traits that may not have as much value as others. Who is to say that the ability to unlock defensive usefulness in teammates should not have as much or more value than orthodox good man-on-man defense? But the idea of DPOY has its biases.

My posts are a disservice to Curry's MVP case? Curry's MVP case isn't going to be determined on this forum.

[AussieBuck]

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

Curry allows for the roster construction that the Warriors have and makes defensive pieces that would be near useless unplayable offensive liabilities elsewhere valuable on his team.

Despite your editing after the fact, this is indeed elite goal post shifting from disagreeing with my hardly controversial view that Curry is indeed not a DPOY type of guy to moving to arguing roster composition because of his offense. You're doing a total disservice to Curry's MVP case with this kind of posting.

We're not talking about DPOY we're talking about MVP. DPOY in itself is an arbitrary idea that assigns a lot of value to certain traits that may not have as much value as others. Who is to say that the ability to unlock defensive usefulness in teammates should not have as much or more value than orthodox good man-on-man defense? But the idea of DPOY has its biases.

It takes a special kind of poster to operate in the blatantly dishonest the way you do with all the information right there in the same spot like it never happened. Have a good one champ.

[DCasey91]

Jokic is the MVP but it’ll go to Curry. No qualms about it but Jokic has been the best player this year hands down. He’s playing like he’s clocked the game or some wizardry stuff right now.

His team is also crapola and worst than the GSW team last season. Curry has taken more than a few games off this year alone (has the most down games from the 4 check if must). GSW are cracked out and have been smoking teams while he’s on the bench.

This is the differences I see:

Last year when Curry was on the bench they couldn’t score (unless Wiggins went score mode which ironically happened later on, GSW was a playoff team when they decided to be, it was by design to tank/develop earlier on) but the defense kept them in it.

This year when Jokic is on the bench everything and I mean everything goes to sh*t lol.

This is the clear media bias:

Last year people, posters and media was all over Curry’s two raspberries and carrot stick when they didn’t make the playoffs for MVP. I think one or two said unanimous or some laughable bs.

This year Jokic and the Nuggets are 8th and it’s moving tumbleweeds and ho hums.

So which is it? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also Jokic could probably play with Kelly Oubre and Wiseman and make them look decent. Dude can play with anyone bad, sub average, average or good. Sucks he doesn’t have a truly great great player yet. Hopefully Murray comes back soon.

Been saying it for awhile Jokic is literally 7”1 Bird + Dirk. No not figuratively, he’s literally that.

Its so f'ing wrong and biased towards Jokic.

1. Last year GSW couldn't stay in games w/o Curry: OFFRTG 101.8 DEFRTG 107.4 NETRTG -5.6 with 2W/7L record
2. Malone rotation is something else in wrong way:

Jokic playing time %:
a) 0.624 with Gordon/Barton/Morris
b) 0.333 with one or two (Gordon/Barton/Morris)
c) 0.043 w/o Gordon/Barton/Morris

Malone leaves second unit w/o the best player or 2/3 good starters. Second unit collaps playing against opponents mix units every time. For expl GSW

Curry playing time %:
a) 0.473 with Green/Wiggins/Poole
b) 0.271 with one or two (Green/Wiggins/Poole)
c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

now look closer at c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

210min (Curry/ Porter/Bjelica/Toscano/Payton)
ORTG 115.3
DRTG 91.9
NRTG +24.4

Curry and 4 min contracts smash oppenents mix units. And I guarantee, that the best opp defenders are on the floor....

3. Now Oubre/Wiseman, I dont want to start here...Maybe lets he starts play with second unit at first and help's them not collapse in every game.

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

Check the adv stuff it’s basically out of the four some are ahead, some behind whatever. Good serviceable long time NBA ball players.

He played with a rookie pg that shot under 40% FG lol. Jokic can play with anyone good or G League level for the past two seasons now it’s dead obvious.

[WarriorGM]

Despite your editing after the fact, this is indeed elite goal post shifting from disagreeing with my hardly controversial view that Curry is indeed not a DPOY type of guy to moving to arguing roster composition because of his offense. You're doing a total disservice to Curry's MVP case with this kind of posting.

We're not talking about DPOY we're talking about MVP. DPOY in itself is an arbitrary idea that assigns a lot of value to certain traits that may not have as much value as others. Who is to say that the ability to unlock defensive usefulness in teammates should not have as much or more value than orthodox good man-on-man defense? But the idea of DPOY has its biases.

It takes a special kind of poster to operate in the blatantly dishonest the way you do with all the information right there in the same spot like it never happened. Have a good one champ.

Dishonest? I've said numerous times I consider Curry the best player in the world for multiple years now and I have backed that up with explanations and predictions consistent with such a stand that have turned out right more often than not. One can only hope others here have as good a record.

[DCasey91]

I guess if Curry was a legit DPOY kinda guy you could give him all the +/- credit, but while he's not the minus defender some of his detractors say he is, he's obviously not the driving force behind that 100 per 100.

I would disagree. There's nothing obvious in your claim.

Well sure, if you want to make a case for Curry as a DPOY type impact guy I'm all ears.

Curry allows for the roster construction that the Warriors have and makes defensive pieces that would be near useless unplayable offensive liabilities elsewhere valuable on his team.

Despite your editing after the fact, this is indeed elite goal post shifting from disagreeing with my hardly controversial view that Curry is indeed not a DPOY type of guy to moving to arguing roster composition because of his offense. You're doing a total disservice to Curry's MVP case with this kind of posting.

Reasoning with him is like trying to take the phone off a squatting asian cook chilling on the back steps that’s having a dart on his lunch break... ain’t going to happen

[SpreeS]

Jokic is the MVP but it’ll go to Curry. No qualms about it but Jokic has been the best player this year hands down. He’s playing like he’s clocked the game or some wizardry stuff right now.

His team is also crapola and worst than the GSW team last season. Curry has taken more than a few games off this year alone (has the most down games from the 4 check if must). GSW are cracked out and have been smoking teams while he’s on the bench.

This is the differences I see:

Last year when Curry was on the bench they couldn’t score (unless Wiggins went score mode which ironically happened later on, GSW was a playoff team when they decided to be, it was by design to tank/develop earlier on) but the defense kept them in it.

This year when Jokic is on the bench everything and I mean everything goes to sh*t lol.

This is the clear media bias:

Last year people, posters and media was all over Curry’s two raspberries and carrot stick when they didn’t make the playoffs for MVP. I think one or two said unanimous or some laughable bs.

This year Jokic and the Nuggets are 8th and it’s moving tumbleweeds and ho hums.

So which is it? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also Jokic could probably play with Kelly Oubre and Wiseman and make them look decent. Dude can play with anyone bad, sub average, average or good. Sucks he doesn’t have a truly great great player yet. Hopefully Murray comes back soon.

Been saying it for awhile Jokic is literally 7”1 Bird + Dirk. No not figuratively, he’s literally that.

Its so f'ing wrong and biased towards Jokic.

1. Last year GSW couldn't stay in games w/o Curry: OFFRTG 101.8 DEFRTG 107.4 NETRTG -5.6 with 2W/7L record
2. Malone rotation is something else in wrong way:

Jokic playing time %:
a) 0.624 with Gordon/Barton/Morris
b) 0.333 with one or two (Gordon/Barton/Morris)
c) 0.043 w/o Gordon/Barton/Morris

Malone leaves second unit w/o the best player or 2/3 good starters. Second unit collaps playing against opponents mix units every time. For expl GSW

Curry playing time %:
a) 0.473 with Green/Wiggins/Poole
b) 0.271 with one or two (Green/Wiggins/Poole)
c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

now look closer at c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

210min (Curry/ Porter/Bjelica/Toscano/Payton)
ORTG 115.3
DRTG 91.9
NRTG +24.4

Curry and 4 min contracts smash oppenents mix units. And I guarantee, that the best opp defenders are on the floor....

3. Now Oubre/Wiseman, I dont want to start here...Maybe lets he starts play with second unit at first and help's them not collapse in every game.

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

Check the adv stuff it’s basically out of the four some are ahead, some behind whatever. Good serviceable long time NBA ball players.

He played with a rookie pg that shot under 40% FG lol. Jokic can play with anyone good or G League level for the past two seasons now it’s dead obvious.

Now GSW 7th-10th players are close to a wash with DEN starters....

[BoatsNZones]

Tim Boentemps just released the results of his early season straw poll of 100 likely voters (2 from each market including international).

Curry received 94/100 first place votes, followed by KD, Giannis, Jokic and CP in that order.

Last year at this time it was a top 3 of Embiid, Jokic and Lebron that he said was the closest poll he had seen since he started doing this some 5 or 6 years back (2 of the 3 falling off later on to injury obviously). This years was the largest discrepancy for the early season poll. He’ll do a late season version with about 1/3rd of the season to go.

[DCasey91]

Its so f'ing wrong and biased towards Jokic.

1. Last year GSW couldn't stay in games w/o Curry: OFFRTG 101.8 DEFRTG 107.4 NETRTG -5.6 with 2W/7L record
2. Malone rotation is something else in wrong way:

Jokic playing time %:
a) 0.624 with Gordon/Barton/Morris
b) 0.333 with one or two (Gordon/Barton/Morris)
c) 0.043 w/o Gordon/Barton/Morris

Malone leaves second unit w/o the best player or 2/3 good starters. Second unit collaps playing against opponents mix units every time. For expl GSW

Curry playing time %:
a) 0.473 with Green/Wiggins/Poole
b) 0.271 with one or two (Green/Wiggins/Poole)
c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

now look closer at c) 0.256 w/o Green/Wiggins/Poole

210min (Curry/ Porter/Bjelica/Toscano/Payton)
ORTG 115.3
DRTG 91.9
NRTG +24.4

Curry and 4 min contracts smash oppenents mix units. And I guarantee, that the best opp defenders are on the floor....

3. Now Oubre/Wiseman, I dont want to start here...Maybe lets he starts play with second unit at first and help's them not collapse in every game.

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

Check the adv stuff it’s basically out of the four some are ahead, some behind whatever. Good serviceable long time NBA ball players.

He played with a rookie pg that shot under 40% FG lol. Jokic can play with anyone good or G League level for the past two seasons now it’s dead obvious.

Now GSW 7th-10th players are close to a wash with DEN starters....

Starter or not a player is a player. Dude we had Korkmaz start games and he is arse so is Wiseman for that matter. Gordon is above average so is Barton and so is Bjelica and Porter put all four careers together it’s basically a wash on who is better right now. Give each of them 20+ mins at the Nuggets the results would be very very similar bet the house on it.

Stop downplaying how much depth GSW has.

Crap statement when literally a game ago Otto Porter put up 15/6 off 8 FGAS lmao. But yeah a rookie, an older second year PG that isn’t a great shooter is basically the Nuggets bench last game.

Da heck are you talking about? Both could well and truly start for the Nuggets that’s a downright fact. Both have combined 450+ starting games.

Get off the GSW carrot stick nut hugging machine

[The-Power]

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

If that's true and it's obvious then why didn't you believe that GSW had great depth before the season? After all, Porter and Bjelica have only played around one third of all possible minutes thus far – starters usually play around twice as much, including Gordon and Barton for the Nuggets this year.

[DCasey91]

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

If that's true and it's obvious then why didn't you believe that GSW had great depth before the season? After all, Porter and Bjelica have only played around one third of all possible minutes thus far – starters usually play around twice as much, including Gordon and Barton for the Nuggets this year.

Oh crap another GSW fan. Also when did I say that about the depth thing? Don’t you ever dare put words that I never said don’t ever do it. Not cool one warning that’s it. Some people need some spectacles and learn to read instead of looking for parts to misconstrued to their own narrow view of things. That’s a poor move for putting up a false statement and another for making up an assumption.

Hey how about you look above I just mentioned to stop downplaying the GSW depth.

Both have combined for over 450 starter games. Wait do GSW fans believe Porter and Bjelica are no good all of a sudden? Gimme a break.

Read my above post. Nugs bench last game was a rookie, a second year older PG that can’t really shoot that’s literally it.

Both could well and truly start for the Nugs and that’s a fact.

Really bad timing, Porter played pretty good for an quote unquote just a bench guy or some 7-10 player last game or whatever that poster said which is not well thought out at all.

Give them all 20+ mins the results would be similar.
It’s not like Gordon or Barton are worldbeaters. All 4 are long time roleplaying players that have clocked up starting time for their careers respectively. You can argue for who is better but damn that’s really clutching at midget sized straws here. Their career PER’s are basically in the same ballpark region.

It’s 100% close to a wash

Anyone that doesn’t think so has a blind eye is a warriors fan or worse both. Bobby Portis barely got a mention but he’s on a winning team, PJ Tucker etc etc. Good role ball players nothing wrong with that.

If you can’t admit the wash aspect or the GSW depth then I really can’t help you on anything basketball related.

[SpreeS]

Porter Jr and Bjelica are good ball players I think everyone can agree on that fact. I’d imagine Jokic and the Nuggets would be better off having 2x more Barton’s. Instead the cupboard is barely playable as is. Some aren’t even that

Hence why I mentioned earlier Bjelica or Porter is close to a wash with Gordon/Barton talent for talents.

Check the adv stuff it’s basically out of the four some are ahead, some behind whatever. Good serviceable long time NBA ball players.

He played with a rookie pg that shot under 40% FG lol. Jokic can play with anyone good or G League level for the past two seasons now it’s dead obvious.

Now GSW 7th-10th players are close to a wash with DEN starters....

Starter or not a player is a player. Dude we had Korkmaz start games and he is arse so is Wiseman for that matter. Gordon is above average so is Barton and so is Bjelica and Porter put all four careers together it’s basically a wash on who is better right now. Give each of them 20+ mins at the Nuggets the results would be very very similar bet the house on it.

Stop downplaying how much depth GSW has.

Crap statement when literally a game ago Otto Porter put up 15/6 off 8 FGAS lmao. But yeah a rookie, an older second year PG that isn’t a great shooter is basically the Nuggets bench last game.

Da heck are you talking about? Both could well and truly start for the Nuggets that’s a downright fact. Both have combined 450+ starting games.

Get off the GSW carrot stick nut hugging machine

Ok, you are right my fella. Lets make the trade (in fantasy world) Gordon/Barton for Bjelica/Porter and I give you bonus Lee and Toscano. I would very happy with my bench with Gordon and Barton....I could give you even more - Payton and Chiozza (Chiozza could be NBA starter material too)

Looney/Wisemann
Green/Gordon/Kuminga
Wiggins/Iggy
Klay/Barton/Moody
Curry/Poole

I dont know how, but I could live with that....

[DCasey91]

Well I didn’t think it would be but it’s very credible that GSW fans on this forum are actually worse than Raps ones.

It’s like teaching a child how to read and comprehend but even a child can learn simple concepts.

I’ve even seen drunken old men who never shuts up before or after telling story actually stop, process and say you know what when people bring up a sound point.

With some GSW posters on this fat chance that’s likely to happen.