OT: Magnus Carlsen wins his 5th Chess World Championship - celebrates to Sixers theme song

[CobraCommander]

Ummm, this is utterly wrong. He studied and memorized as much as anyone to ever live when he was working on his game. He ALSO didn't like that aspect of the game, but make no mistake he was a guy who studied the theory like crazy. But he was as good as anyone ever at memorizing theory and then innovating from it. Outside of a few guys...like Magnus.

My point is if you are crazy and dismissive and not committed, you won’t be able to compete with the guys that are all in on chess, with great tools, are as talented as you AND love the game....he hated chess and said it all the time and thus didn’t spend as much time doing it....


Again I just don’t think someone that hates something is going to beat someone that’s committed to the game and is as talent and more committed. But can I prove it...naw



This is a situation where one guy has been dominant for an extended period of time and one that is more of a legend like a figure that didn’t do it long enough to be relevant outside of the US. Russian always clown Americans when our best actual player in my day was Seattle”s own Yasser Seirawans....enough talk - DM and we can settle this on chess.com right now....

The crazy old man and the young version who dominated for a short period are two rather different people ultimately.

I’m not disagreeing with you if you think if Fischer Prepped like Magnus and wasn’t bat crap crazy, that he could beat magnus...but he didn’t and he was crazy ...and thus it doesn’t matter. He stated he hated the game...these guys are playing chess for fun on twitch and on apps....playing 100000s more games with superior studying tools. Notice how magnus doesn’t even tell you what engines he is studying with? Dude is guarded as hell about his prep, coaches and tools cause this man is driven to dominate. Fischer and Magnus are not the same tier because of that. They not the same tier...

Fischer not Kasparov or Karpov because he didn’t accomplish it when he had the chance.

Fischer isn’t Magnus cause Magnus wants to be Jordan and I think he is. I’m not a chess nerd I swear...but I think this guy isn’t going to be threatened until one of these younger superGMs age into their prime and he ages out of his. There are some hot young prospects out there...but so far this guy is IT on all levels

[KembaWalker]

Fischer worked as hard as anyone. Not sure where that narrative was coming from. Players can prep way better now with computers and chessbase but Fischer literally taught himself Russian to read their magazines

[CobraCommander]

So who is better - this dude or Bobby Fisher?

Tough to compare, in Chess (more so than most sports) you build off of the greats before you, though the computer age slightly changes that. Bobby’s run was also much shorter than even Magnus (Bobby obviously exiled himself), but more dominant and he was probably farther ahead of the competition than Magnus. Kasparov has the best case for GOAT still.

It’s Magnus in terms of variety of games heads up between all three make it five with Karpov and Capablanca, Magnus would come out victorious. He shares all similarities yet no one is as complete as Magnus he is just a destroyer. It’s like you take the best of all of them and put it into one person that’s him.

Boats makes the argument that I have heard superGMs make...as the game evolves as new lines are found and tools invented, the best players get BETTER...so the argument can be made that the best player ever is the player that has a widest gap between them and their contemporaries...


If that’s the case Kasparov has a legit claim... I would still argue Magnus until we see someone beat magnus and see how they do it. Magnus is legit the highest elo ever and has played some of the most accurate games ever....and has won at blitz and classical...and blitz is more exciting and like a sport than classical to me...so I love that he did them both and that he beat my favorite GM to do it

[Alfred]

Asterisk championship. He's overrated and will never be goat

explain

It’s probably a joke, but this is definitely an asterisk Championship for Magnus. His opponent, Nepo, played probably the worst Championship match of all time with a ton of blunders.

Classical time controls are when players have a huge amount of time to consider their moves before they make them, and blunders (essentially game-losing mistakes) are quite rare. Nepo made a number of blunders that essentially handed the tournament to Magnus.

[Alfred]

Kasparov is probably the GOAT. He was an amazing attacking player who excelled in all areas of the game. Bobby Fischer’s peak was probably the highest of any chess player, but it was very brief. When Fischer was in his prime he was playing for the win against the best players — with the black pieces.

Magnus could get into the GOAT conversation if he stays Champion for long enough. His style is reminiscent of Karpov, maybe a bit more dynamic. His brilliance is taking draw-ish midgames and improving his position until he gets a winning endgame. He is perhaps the best endgame player of all time.

[Wagonband]

So many chess experts here

No matter how you put it, Carlsen can only be challenged by Kasparov in terms of greatness. Fisher was great but had a very short peak, Kasparov and Carlsen are however the boogiemen of their generation.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Carlsen is the best player and borderline unbeatable for the last 10 years or so. Same with Kasparov; Karpov was always a slight underdog in their matches and the rest of the field was far far behind them.

It's come to a point with Carlsen, like it did with Kasparov, that people know deep inside that they cant' win vs them, which must be extremely frustrating. There is a new challenger on the horizon though, someone with definite goat potential.

[Kingdibs19]

Who’s better? This guy or the girl from Netflix show Queens Gambit? I don’t know chess

[CobraCommander]

While I still think Magnus is the GOAT...the Best argument for Fischer as stated by others on this board is looking as how he was compared to contemporaries AND his accuracy...to me the best for graphical argument for Fischer being the best ever is looking at this...



https://youtu.be/CnQnJEj-Yxo

I’m literally losing the argument with my super analytical girl and our chess playing friends about Fischer and Magnus as I type this....

They think all things being equal the graph I just posted screams Fischer was actually not the goat but the god of chess... so I can’t escape taking Ls

[eminence]

Plenty have an argument for chess GOAT at this point - Morphy, Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvinnik, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov, and of course Magnus himself.

[Alfred]

Plenty have an argument for chess GOAT at this point - Morphy, Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvinnik, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov, and of course Magnus himself.

Of that list only Morphy, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov & Magnus have a legit case for GOAT.

Lasker dodged Capablanca for as long as humanly possible and then lost to him. Capablanca's opening theory was not very good (for a Champion of course). Alekhine, rating wise, was not as strong as other Champions. Botvinnik? I've never heard his name be entered into a GOAT conversation, was he even better than Tal?

There are decent arguments for Magnus, Karpov, Kasparov, Fischer and Morphy though. I'd rank them:

1. Kasparov
2. Magnus
3. Fischer
4. Morphy
5. Karpov

[Wagonband]

Plenty have an argument for chess GOAT at this point - Morphy, Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvinnik, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov, and of course Magnus himself.

No they don't lol. How can Karpov possibly be Goat? Or Botvinnik?

[Alatan]

I'm surprised how many fellow basketball fans are also fellow chess fans. Props to you guys!

As to the question on who is the GOAT, its probably Magnus Carlsen, he just needs to keep up winning to reach Kasparovs longevity. There were other incredible players that dominated as much if not more in their eras but as people pointed out todays chess players built and improved on the work before them aided by incredibly strong chess engines.
If we are speaking raw talent Carlsen, Kasparov, Fisher, Capablanca, Murphy are in the top.

[eminence]

Plenty have an argument for chess GOAT at this point - Morphy, Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvinnik, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov, and of course Magnus himself.

Of that list only Morphy, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov & Magnus have a legit case for GOAT.

Lasker dodged Capablanca for as long as humanly possible and then lost to him. Capablanca's opening theory was not very good (for a Champion of course). Alekhine, rating wise, was not as strong as other Champions. Botvinnik? I've never heard his name be entered into a GOAT conversation, was he even better than Tal?

There are decent arguments for Magnus, Karpov, Kasparov, Fischer and Morphy though. I'd rank them:

1. Kasparov
2. Magnus
3. Fischer
4. Morphy
5. Karpov

I could see excluding Lasker/Alekhine, the dodging Capablanca is a very real criticism and Alekhine was certainly up and down.

I don't see any serious case to exclude Capablanca/Botvinnik. Tal's career isn't even sort of comparable to Botvinnik.

Recent study on WC chess accuracy:

https://lichess.org/blog/YafSBxEAACIAr0ZA/exact-exacting-who-is-the-most-accurate-world-champion

[Big J]

Magnus is great, but Nepo's blunders were so ridiculously bad that even an amateur wouldn't have made them.

I wonder how many people actually know the different style of games played.

It’s classical, Magnus is some grim reaper god machine and that goes for every single greatest chess player before him.

Dude won blitz world and held all the major prizes in one season.

No one is on his level

No one is at that level....the best of the best...super GMs call hi the best...so it tells you what they think...and they know more than us

He is the best, but why was Nepo blundering like a child? Not even a high school chess club member would have made those moves.

[DCasey91]

Magnus is great, but Nepo's blunders were so ridiculously bad that even an amateur wouldn't have made them.

I wonder how many people actually know the different style of games played.

It’s classical, Magnus is some grim reaper god machine and that goes for every single greatest chess player before him.

Dude won blitz world and held all the major prizes in one season.

No one is on his level

Caruana aside, is there that much difference between the classical and speed chess rankings?

Not really in terms of ranking because the top are the top, but in terms of play? Massive difference. Classical to play at 99% accuracy over 130 moves in an 8 hr game is absurd after move 10 in game is where things got super interesting between the two. Nepo is awesome one of the best player math computations in the world.... Magnus is a machine lol

[DCasey91]

I wonder how many people actually know the different style of games played.

It’s classical, Magnus is some grim reaper god machine and that goes for every single greatest chess player before him.

Dude won blitz world and held all the major prizes in one season.

No one is on his level

No one is at that level....the best of the best...super GMs call hi the best...so it tells you what they think...and they know more than us

He is the best, but why was Nepo blundering like a child? Not even a high school chess club member would have made those moves.

No high school chess player can play like Nepo. Give it a rest he could beat them with his eyes closed.

Read up on game 5 and 6 he put Magnus in awkward asf spots. (Should have done more particularly game 5)

It’s classical meaning up to a certain point machine made moves even the best ever don’t understand because they are already equating X amount of moves ahead no human can math that far ahead. They both were playing spicy from like move 10. It’s wonderful for chess because if both players fight instead of not being risky (world championship is different, all players have prep teams since I don’t how long and it’s risk adverse) then awesome games can happen

Even the machine had it as a draw for uber long but Magnus is the GOAT and got the win.

Game 6 was probably the breaking point and that’s one of the best games ever played.

Nepo played 4 hours of wonderful defending from black when Magnus did a NBD for a 2700+. He’s not exactly going into an easy opponent is he? Furthest thing from it

I know the blunder in the last game sure but at least you got a classic game which some world champs matches don’t have that. It’ll be remembered for decades and centuries to come.

[DCasey91]

Goat? Maybe but imma go with my boy Wesley So as current fav Player.
Absolutely demolished Carlson in the Fischer random world championship where you have limited prep since the positions of the pieces are random

Big deal. In Classic Magnus is stand alone has no peer

They’ve all beaten each other up until everybody plays the game as it was intended to be.

[DCasey91]

Those that are discrediting Nepo has no idea about what was going on. Yes he did blunder a lot but I’d say both were in unfamiliar territory especially game 6 which is wonderful for human chess. Especially in the middle game everyone wants to get back to familiar parts as a reference point. Only so many times you can boot up the brain power before it’s all theory and lost.

[Flash Falcon X]

So who is better - this dude or Bobby Fisher?

Magnus. Bobby Fisher played against plumbers and substitute teachers.

[Parataxis]

Magnus is great, but Nepo's blunders were so ridiculously bad that even an amateur wouldn't have made them.

Yeah, but a lot of those blunders were from desperation. After Carlsen won his first (and then second) game, Nepo had to start playing unorthodox chess, if he wanted any chance to catch up.