2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

[yoyoboy]

Yeah...I mean when Raps fans come into the rookie thread and go out of their way to talk about how Allen is carrying the defense, it's hard not to see an obvious agenda at play there lol.

The Mobley hype can get a bit hyperbolic, I'll agree, but I think what really gets at the heart of this discussion is: what do we value more in the ROTY race? Actual on-court impact or box-score stats regardless of impact? Not asking how the voting typically goes for media voters, but rather how it should go for this forum's evaluation of who the Rookie of the Year is. Because obviously we know media voters tend to lean towards the latter; however, just because it's always been that way doesn't mean it's the right way. Rookies typically play on horrible teams with a ton of opportunity to pile counting numbers, meaning the team-level impact usually isn't there, and media voters usually rely on the box score because they're not really watching the rookies on these bad teams throughout the year anyways, which is also kind of a problem.

So if say by the season's end, Cade or Scottie has a slight edge in box score production but Mobley has a clearly bigger impact on winning games...how do we evaluate that? Even before this season I've always wanted the ROTY voting to be more about who helps their team win the most rather than just who puts up the best pts/reb/ast slashline on the team that gives them the most opportunity. But if other people see things differently, then it is what it is.

Also, I don't want to make it seem like Cade, Scottie, or the other players are just negative impact stat padders. Hell, by the end of the year, maybe they've performed well enough this last 2/3 of the season where those guys also have Mobley beat out in terms of impact as well. I think both guys and others are already net positive players for their teams. But just speaking of how the season has gone so far I think it's evident that Mobley's value contributed to his team is ahead of the pack. And in my eyes, that should be the more important criteria when we ask ourselves who the best rookie has been thus far. That doesn't mean he has the ROTY race wrapped up or that Barnes, Wagner, Cade, Sengun, and all these other impressive rookies haven't been great too. And it doesn't mean the voters might not have Barnes for instance ahead so far, so I'm not predicting anything or speaking for the voters.

[Bruin]

Yeah...I mean when Raps fans come into the rookie thread and go out of their way to talk about how Allen is carrying the defense, it's hard not to see an obvious agenda at play there lol.

The Mobley hype can get a bit hyperbolic, I'll agree, but I think what really gets at the heart of this discussion is: what do we value more in the ROTY race? Actual on-court impact or box-score stats regardless of impact? Not asking how the voting typically goes for media voters, but rather how it should go for this forum's evaluation of who the Rookie of the Year is. Because obviously we know media voters tend to lean towards the latter; however, just because it's always been that way doesn't mean it's the right way. Rookies typically play on horrible teams with a ton of opportunity to pile counting numbers, meaning the team-level impact usually isn't there, and media voters usually rely on the box score because they're not really watching the rookies on these bad teams throughout the year anyways, which is also kind of a problem.

So if say by the season's end, Cade or Scottie has a slight edge in box score production but Mobley has a clearly bigger impact on winning games...how do we evaluate that? Even before this season I've always wanted the ROTY voting to be more about who helps their team win the most rather than just who puts up the best pts/reb/ast slashline on the team that gives them the most opportunity. But if other people see things differently, then it is what it is.

Also, I don't want to make it seem like Cade, Scottie, or the other players are just negative impact stat padders. Hell, by the end of the year, maybe they've performed well enough this last 2/3 of the season where those guys also have Mobley beat out in terms of impact as well. I think both guys and others are already net positive players for their teams. But just speaking of how the season has gone so far I think it's evident that Mobley's value contributed to his team is ahead of the pack. And in my eyes, that should be the more important criteria when we ask ourselves who the best rookie has been thus far. That doesn't mean he has the ROTY race wrapped up or that Barnes, Wagner, Cade, Sengun, and all these other impressive rookies haven't been great too. And it doesn't mean the voters might not have Barnes for instance ahead so far, so I'm not predicting anything or speaking for the voters.

Yeah I mean I have no problem with this. I don’t disagree that Mobley has a bigger impact so far and honestly would also prefer that the ROTY award prioritizes impact over raw stats. I have Mobley as the ROTY right now, but it’s not a runaway like some are suggesting. But do you really think he’s 3 tiers above Scottie?

As for the fans using Allen to dump on Mobley, I agree that’s dumb. I’ve always said they’re both insane talents

[Blacksheep25]

It’s because the Mobley guys are saying Barnes has “no argument” for ROY and shouldn’t even be in the same conversation as Mobley. That hyperbolic disrespect is literally the only reason.

You don’t see Barnes stans saying that about Cade, Giddey, Wagner, etc.

Stating the truth isn’t argumentative.

He isn’t close to the level of basketball player Mobley is. Mobley probably wins it, but the award is irrelevant. Any award could change today with an injury

From this year forward, being the better basketball player is all that matters, and that’s not close right now.

Mobley is a great basketball player for any age right at this moment. He’s a positive player. His team is 15-8 when he plays against the toughest schedule In the league

Barnes is a negative. He’s really good for a rookie

When he’s o the floor thus far, his team is worse. He joined a team with a win total of 35.5 and they’re 10-14 when he plays. Exactly in line with the impact a slightly negative player would expect.

This isn’t hard if you understand the game. One dude joined a team with a win total of 26.5 and they are 15-8 when he plays.

You seemed to struggle with this concept a week ago and lied about the numbers like anyone can’t look them up.

Here they are.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/

Is he alone the reason a team projected to lose more than 2 out of 3 games are winning 2 out of 3?

Of course not. Other factors exist. Other players have progressed.

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

He’s a unique freak of a rookie. The kid who is a super impact basketball player from day one and elevates everything. Barnes is really great for a rookie. Every year someone is really great for a rookie

[Bruin]

It’s because the Mobley guys are saying Barnes has “no argument” for ROY and shouldn’t even be in the same conversation as Mobley. That hyperbolic disrespect is literally the only reason.

You don’t see Barnes stans saying that about Cade, Giddey, Wagner, etc.

Stating the truth isn’t argumentative.

He isn’t close to the level of basketball player Mobley is. Mobley probably wins it, but the award is irrelevant. Any award could change today with an injury

From this year forward, being the better basketball player is all that matters, and that’s not close right now.

Mobley is a great basketball player for any age right at this moment. He’s a positive player. His team is 15-8 when he plays against the toughest schedule In the league

Barnes is a negative. He’s really good for a rookie

When he’s o the floor thus far, his team is worse. He joined a team with a win total of 35.5 and they’re 10-14 when he plays. Exactly in line with the impact a slightly negative player would expect.

This isn’t hard if you understand the game. One dude joined a team with a win total of 26.5 and they are 15-8 when he plays.

You seemed to struggle with this concept a week ago and lied about the numbers like anyone can’t look them up.

Here they are.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/

Is he alone the reason a team projected to lose more than 2 out of 3 games are winning 2 out of 3?

Of course not. Other factors exist. Other players have progressed.

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

He’s a unique freak of a rookie. The kid who is a super impact basketball player from day one and elevates everything. Barnes is really great for a rookie. Every year someone is really great for a rookie

Making such a comment without considering the fact we lost our best playmaker and lead guard in free agency to help fit your agenda. Nice

[yoyoboy]

Yeah I mean I have no problem with this. I don’t disagree that Mobley has a bigger impact so far and honestly would also prefer that the ROTY award prioritizes impact over raw stats. I have Mobley as the ROTY right now, but it’s not a runaway like some are suggesting. But do you really think he’s 3 tiers above Scottie?

As for the fans using Allen to dump on Mobley, I agree that’s dumb. I’ve always said they’re both insane talents

Not at all, which is why I said this is still a race and by season’s end it’s entirely possible that Cade or Barnes (most likely candidates) will have made up the ground to even beat out Mobley in terms of impact. Just speaking based on the season so far, I would say Mobley is like an 85th percentile player in terms of impact and Barnes is maybe like a 70th percentile level player. Barnes has been a more effective offensive player but Mobley being one of the best defenders in the league already makes the defensive gap bigger. Even if we prioritize impact over raw numbers, with only like 33% of the season wrapped up so far, I’m definitely not going to say ROTY is wrapped up.

[Blacksheep25]

It’s because the Mobley guys are saying Barnes has “no argument” for ROY and shouldn’t even be in the same conversation as Mobley. That hyperbolic disrespect is literally the only reason.

You don’t see Barnes stans saying that about Cade, Giddey, Wagner, etc.

Stating the truth isn’t argumentative.

He isn’t close to the level of basketball player Mobley is. Mobley probably wins it, but the award is irrelevant. Any award could change today with an injury

From this year forward, being the better basketball player is all that matters, and that’s not close right now.

Mobley is a great basketball player for any age right at this moment. He’s a positive player. His team is 15-8 when he plays against the toughest schedule In the league

Barnes is a negative. He’s really good for a rookie

When he’s o the floor thus far, his team is worse. He joined a team with a win total of 35.5 and they’re 10-14 when he plays. Exactly in line with the impact a slightly negative player would expect.

This isn’t hard if you understand the game. One dude joined a team with a win total of 26.5 and they are 15-8 when he plays.

You seemed to struggle with this concept a week ago and lied about the numbers like anyone can’t look them up.

Here they are.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/

Is he alone the reason a team projected to lose more than 2 out of 3 games are winning 2 out of 3?

Of course not. Other factors exist. Other players have progressed.

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

He’s a unique freak of a rookie. The kid who is a super impact basketball player from day one and elevates everything. Barnes is really great for a rookie. Every year someone is really great for a rookie

Making such a comment without considering the fact we lost our best playmaker and lead guard in free agency to help fit your agenda. Nice

You’d already lost him when the win totals were out. You would have been in the 40s before that. Those were the numbers the day before the tip.

[Bruin]

Yeah I mean I have no problem with this. I don’t disagree that Mobley has a bigger impact so far and honestly would also prefer that the ROTY award prioritizes impact over raw stats. I have Mobley as the ROTY right now, but it’s not a runaway like some are suggesting. But do you really think he’s 3 tiers above Scottie?

As for the fans using Allen to dump on Mobley, I agree that’s dumb. I’ve always said they’re both insane talents

Not at all, which is why I said this is still a race and by season’s end it’s entirely possible that Cade or Barnes (most likely candidates) will have made up the ground to even beat out Mobley in terms of impact. Just speaking based on the season so far, I would say Mobley is like an 85th percentile player in terms of impact and Barnes is maybe like a 70th percentile level player. Barnes has been a more effective offensive player but Mobley being one of the best defenders in the league already makes the defensive gap bigger. Even if we prioritize impact over raw numbers, with only like 33% of the season wrapped up so far, I’m definitely not going to say ROTY is wrapped up.

Ok see, this is a lot more fair and reasonable than what others have been saying. Thank you

As for the ROTY not being wrapped up yet, I agree. There’s Definitely a long way to go. If the season ended right now, it goes to Mobley imo.

Anything can change as there’s still 2/3 of the season left tho. Technically a guy like Franz, Cade, or Giddey could still win it by the end of the year too. Nothings guaranteed

[Bruin]

Stating the truth isn’t argumentative.

He isn’t close to the level of basketball player Mobley is. Mobley probably wins it, but the award is irrelevant. Any award could change today with an injury

From this year forward, being the better basketball player is all that matters, and that’s not close right now.

Mobley is a great basketball player for any age right at this moment. He’s a positive player. His team is 15-8 when he plays against the toughest schedule In the league

Barnes is a negative. He’s really good for a rookie

When he’s o the floor thus far, his team is worse. He joined a team with a win total of 35.5 and they’re 10-14 when he plays. Exactly in line with the impact a slightly negative player would expect.

This isn’t hard if you understand the game. One dude joined a team with a win total of 26.5 and they are 15-8 when he plays.

You seemed to struggle with this concept a week ago and lied about the numbers like anyone can’t look them up.

Here they are.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/

Is he alone the reason a team projected to lose more than 2 out of 3 games are winning 2 out of 3?

Of course not. Other factors exist. Other players have progressed.

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

He’s a unique freak of a rookie. The kid who is a super impact basketball player from day one and elevates everything. Barnes is really great for a rookie. Every year someone is really great for a rookie

Making such a comment without considering the fact we lost our best playmaker and lead guard in free agency to help fit your agenda. Nice

You’d already lost him when the win totals were out. You would have been in the 40s before that. Those were the numbers the day before the tip.

What are you talking about? Projections and Betting sites? Lmao

When have those ever been accurate?

[Blacksheep25]

Making such a comment without considering the fact we lost our best playmaker and lead guard in free agency to help fit your agenda. Nice

You’d already lost him when the win totals were out. You would have been in the 40s before that. Those were the numbers the day before the tip.

What are you talking about? Projections and Betting sites? Lmao

When have those ever been accurate?

They are far more of an accurate appraisal of existing talent on a roster than anything else. They’ll be off occasionally, but if they were off often, they’d lose a whole lot of money and get hammered by sharps.

The top 5 teams were

Brooklyn Nets 56.5
Milwaukee Bucks 54.5
Utah Jazz 52.5
Los Angeles Lakers 52.5
Phoenix Suns 51.5

All pretty damn good teams with the exception of the Lakers.

Bottom 5

DDS

Orlando Magic 22.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 23.5
Detroit Pistons 24.5
Cleveland Cavaliers 26.5
Houston Rockets 27.5

Hmm...all pretty horrible except for the team winning 2 out of 3 with a freak rookie.

You are in denial and are simply a homer, I get it, but it doesn’t change the reality

[basketballRob]

Raptors fans have acknowledged several other rookies. Including guys like Wagner, Bouknight, Cade, Giddey, Bones Hyland, BJ Boston, Duarte, etc

Every fan base has guys who ignore rooks that’s aren’t on their own team, but a lot of us aren’t.

Mobley fans are out here saying fully saying that Barnes isn’t even close to Mobley. They’re putting down Barnes to prop up Mobley. I’d say that’s much worse considering most Raptors fans have acknowledged how great Mobley has been

Just because you acknowledge something doesn't make it right/true.

The gist of the issue that many fans of teams together than Raptor/Cavs see Mobley as generational. Raptors fan (in general) cannot acknowledge this fact and insist that Barnes is close to Mobley in impact despite. Praising other players drafted after Barnes is basically an attempt at feigning impartiality.

Lol what? So being complimentary of other rookies has to because I’m attempting at feigning impartiality? It can’t just be because I like their game?

Mobley is great, nobody has denied this. But saying Barnes is so far below him is pretty stupid, especially when the stats suggest they’re pretty damn close. Someone even posted several advanced stats earlier that showed Scottie is better offensively right now

Mobley is great. Doesn’t mean Barnes isn’t great either. This mentality that some of you have is so damn dense

Stats suggest that the top 5 are pretty close but some want to say Barnes and Mobley are a tier above everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Bruin]

You’d already lost him when the win totals were out. You would have been in the 40s before that. Those were the numbers the day before the tip.

What are you talking about? Projections and Betting sites? Lmao

When have those ever been accurate?

They are far more of an accurate appraisal of existing talent on a roster than anything else.

The top 5 teams were

Brooklyn Nets 56.5
Milwaukee Bucks 54.5
Utah Jazz 52.5
Los Angeles Lakers 52.5
Phoenix Suns 51.5

All pretty damn good teams with the exception of the Lakers.

Bottom 5

DDS

Orlando Magic 22.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 23.5
Detroit Pistons 24.5
Cleveland Cavaliers 26.5
Houston Rockets 27.5

Hmm...all pretty horrible except for the team winning 2 out of 3 with a freak rookie.

You are in denial and are simply a homer, I get it, but it doesn’t change the reality

Yeah sorry I’m not gonna use betting sites as a way to formulate an argument. If that’s how you roll, good on you

Based on the games I’ve watched, I’d say the Raptors are performing right around the level of where they should be in the standings. Especially considering the amount of guys we’ve had out for extended time

[Bruin]

Just because you acknowledge something doesn't make it right/true.

The gist of the issue that many fans of teams together than Raptor/Cavs see Mobley as generational. Raptors fan (in general) cannot acknowledge this fact and insist that Barnes is close to Mobley in impact despite. Praising other players drafted after Barnes is basically an attempt at feigning impartiality.

Lol what? So being complimentary of other rookies has to because I’m attempting at feigning impartiality? It can’t just be because I like their game?

Mobley is great, nobody has denied this. But saying Barnes is so far below him is pretty stupid, especially when the stats suggest they’re pretty damn close. Someone even posted several advanced stats earlier that showed Scottie is better offensively right now

Mobley is great. Doesn’t mean Barnes isn’t great either. This mentality that some of you have is so damn dense

Stats suggest that the top 5 are pretty close but some want to say Barnes and Mobley are a tier above everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

I don’t disagree. I definitely think Franz, Giddey, and Cade are all close as well

I currently have it as:

Mobley
Scottie
Cade
Franz
Giddey

[Blacksheep25]

What are you talking about? Projections and Betting sites? Lmao

When have those ever been accurate?

They are far more of an accurate appraisal of existing talent on a roster than anything else.

The top 5 teams were

Brooklyn Nets 56.5
Milwaukee Bucks 54.5
Utah Jazz 52.5
Los Angeles Lakers 52.5
Phoenix Suns 51.5

All pretty damn good teams with the exception of the Lakers.

Bottom 5

DDS

Orlando Magic 22.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 23.5
Detroit Pistons 24.5
Cleveland Cavaliers 26.5
Houston Rockets 27.5

Hmm...all pretty horrible except for the team winning 2 out of 3 with a freak rookie.

You are in denial and are simply a homer, I get it, but it doesn’t change the reality

Yeah sorry I’m not gonna use betting sites as a way to formulate an argument. If that’s how you roll, good on you

Based on the games I’ve watched, I’d say the Raptors are performing right around the level of where they should be in the standings. Especially considering the amount of guys we’ve had out for extended time

I would agree. Barnes is barely in the negative. He’s really good for a rookie but largely irrelevant. 12-14 is right about on pace for the 35.5 win total you dismiss that was highly accurate. 10-14 when he plays shows the slight drag, but can be statistical noise. Vegas had the Raptors dead on.

The outlier is what a freak Mobley is, and the impact he’s had, that’s where the big miss is. He’s simply in a league of his own as far as impact.

[LoveMyRaps]

Some Barnes fans are as disrespecful towards other rookies as some Mobley fans or even more.
You would think there are only 2 good rookies this year reading comments. Its easy to dismiss other players when you dont watch them at all. Some years there is more good new players than 2.

Raptors fans have acknowledged several other rookies. Including guys like Wagner, Bouknight, Cade, Giddey, Bones Hyland, BJ Boston, Duarte, etc

Every fan base has guys who ignore rooks that’s aren’t on their own team, but a lot of us aren’t.

Mobley fans are out here saying fully saying that Barnes isn’t even close to Mobley. They’re putting down Barnes to prop up Mobley. I’d say that’s much worse considering most Raptors fans have acknowledged how great Mobley has been

Just because you acknowledge something doesn't make it right/true.

The gist of the issue that many fans of teams together than Raptor/Cavs see Mobley as generational. Raptors fan (in general) cannot acknowledge this fact and insist that Barnes is close to Mobley in impact despite. Praising other players drafted after Barnes is basically an attempt at feigning impartiality. Same holds for the narrative (driven by Raptors fans) currently being parroted that Allen is the driving force behind the Cavs' resurgence/defensive aptitude. This idea is not even accepted by Cavs fans who actually watch their own games.

The contention is whether is Barnes is even close to Mobley. The answer is no for the vast majority of non-Raptor posters here. No one is denying the idea that Barnes has been amazing. In most years, he would be the front runner for the best rookie. Except this year, there is someone who is just a whole tier or even three higher.

Most of the remaining Raptors fans in this thread are very civilized and discuss/praise other rookies as well including myself. I've been marveling over this draft class since day 1 because I actually tune into games (s/o leaguepass) and watch these rookies go to work & showcase their potential.

Then there's people like you that can't stand it when people praise Barnes for whatever reason. It's easy for anyone to go through your post history and see how pathetically biased you are and why you're one of the few remaining people on this thread that continue to be toxic by talking sh*t about other rooks just to feel better about your guy.

Making claims like "Mobley is 3 tiers above Barnes" with no explanation on a daily basis just goes to show how ignorant you are.

Just look at this....



You reek of insecurity man. Do a better job.

The first few rookie threads were pretty toxic because there were A LOT more biased posters like yourself but hopefully you can be a little less biased & a little more thoughtful.
It's always more fun when everyone's just having civilized conversations/debates about these players.

This is well laid out in regards to making your point, but backseat modding and personal attacks are not allowed. Don't call people ignorant, pathetic, toxic, etc. If you think a post is inappropriate or you think someone is trolling, just flag it and the mods will act. Warned. -b

[LoveMyRaps]

Lol what? So being complimentary of other rookies has to because I’m attempting at feigning impartiality? It can’t just be because I like their game?

Mobley is great, nobody has denied this. But saying Barnes is so far below him is pretty stupid, especially when the stats suggest they’re pretty damn close. Someone even posted several advanced stats earlier that showed Scottie is better offensively right now

Mobley is great. Doesn’t mean Barnes isn’t great either. This mentality that some of you have is so damn dense

Stats suggest that the top 5 are pretty close but some want to say Barnes and Mobley are a tier above everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

I don’t disagree. I definitely think Franz, Giddey, and Cade are all close as well

I currently have it as:

Mobley
Scottie
Cade
Franz
Giddey

Still think Cade will be the best player from this draft but I definitely have Wagner ahead of him in the ROTY race right now.

My top 5 looks a little different:

Mobley
Barnes
Wagner
Cunningham
Sengun
--------------
Giddey
Duarte

[ROballer]

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

Is this still a thing? Please...

They played the Phoenix Suns during the peak of the winning streak, the Warriors and the Brooklyn Nets twice.

I really wish he had played, this narrative of the 0-4 record without needs to cease. Or at least put some context to it.

They had a bad luck ending up in a terrible scheduling session but the most likely scenario is that the record would've been the same as it is now. But I guess it's ok to use as an agenda.

Oh, and you're wrong. They lost by 5 points against the Suns and 5 and 10 points against the Nets. Only against the Warriors it wasn't close. While missing some other guys as well, not just Mobley.

They are a much better team with him for sure but some literally act they're a 55 win team with and 10 team without him. That simply isn't the case. Like it's not fair to over prop some of the guys(eg like Allen for the defense), it's also not fair to downgrade their contribution.

This isn't a one man team. Not even close.

[Blacksheep25]

But they’re 0-4 when he didn’t and weren’t close to the same team. He’s the single largest factor that was added

Is this still a thing? Please...

They played the Phoenix Suns during the peak of the winning streak, the Warriors and the Brooklyn Nets twice.

I really wish he had played, this narrative of the 0-4 record without needs to cease. Or at least put some context to it.

They had a bad luck ending up in a terrible scheduling session but the most likely scenario is that the record would've been the same as it is now. But I guess it's ok to use as an agenda.

Oh, and you're wrong. They lost by 5 points against the Suns and 5 and 10 points against the Nets. Only against the Warriors it wasn't close. While missing some other guys as well, not just Mobley.

They are a much better team with him for sure but some literally act they're a 55 win team with and 10 team without him. That simply isn't the case. Like it's not fair to over prop some of the guys(eg like Allen for the defense), it's also not fair to downgrade their contribution.

This isn't a one man team. Not even close.

They lost by 5 to the Suns. Iirc, even going into the fourth. Yeah he probably makes the difference in 2 of those 4 on average. He’s simply that good. It’s why they’re 15-8 when he plays. It’s why bref has them as favorites to win East right now. I don’t agree with that. Think they’re more fifth, but when they’ve lost, they’ve barely lost after the first few games. When they win, they are winning big.

[Bruin]

It’s interesting how all of the Cavs improvements are being attributed to Mobley. Obviously he’s been a huge factor, but people are ignoring how much Garland and Allen have improved this year

They’ve been taken a huge step and Allen is likely an All Star this year. But somehow their contributions are being overlooked and Mobley is apparently the only reason behind the reason for the Cavs success

[Blacksheep25]

It’s interesting how all of the Cavs improvements are being attributed to Mobley. Obviously he’s been a huge factor, but people are ignoring how much Garland and Allen have improved this year

They’ve been taken a huge step and Allen is likely an All Star this year. But somehow their contributions are being overlooked and Mobley is apparently the only reason behind the reason for the Cavs success

No one is overlooking them. They were on the team last year. They are greatly improved. Love both. If you think Garland getting better has anything to do with a team finishing 28 or worse in defense for the last six years and now top 5, it doesn’t. Allen does, but Mobley is superior on defense to Allen. He simply is as his ability to guard the perimeter and contest shots is unheard of. Allen is the better overall player today, and those guys and others are integral to the success, but Mobley is largest factor by a mile.

[Bruin]

It’s interesting how all of the Cavs improvements are being attributed to Mobley. Obviously he’s been a huge factor, but people are ignoring how much Garland and Allen have improved this year

They’ve been taken a huge step and Allen is likely an All Star this year. But somehow their contributions are being overlooked and Mobley is apparently the only reason behind the reason for the Cavs success

No one is overlooking them. They were on the team last year. They are greatly improved. Love both. If you think Garland getting better has anything to do with a team finishing 28 or worse in defense for the last six years and now top 5, it doesn’t. Allen does, but Mobley is superior on defense to Allen. He simply is as his ability to guard the perimeter and contest shots is unheard of. Allen is the better overall player today, and those guys and others are integral to the success, but Mobley is largest factor by a mile.

Ok so then you agree though that Mobley isn’t the sole reason of the Cavs winning record right? Cause that’s what it appears Cavs fans have been saying in order to support their argument of Mobley being “3 tiers higher” than Barnes