Official Celtics 2022 Off-Season Thread
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Brad Stevens was in Spain yesterday, watching a Euroleague game between Baskonia and Asvel. One of the players he might be interested in is Victor Wembanyama, a center.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
LOL, the Celtics are interested in Victor Wembanyama? Welcome to the club.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Hal14 wrote:Bohemian wrote:flintsky21 wrote:They say the draft is a hit and miss, but how can you essentially mess up each and every one of the last 10 picks?
2019:
14th pick - Langford -- It's pretty tragic that we were one pick away from getting Herro but even then, Langford looks to be a rotational role player at best instead of the high ceiling guy Ainge must've thought of. Then the fact that he gets hurt every 5 games or so. SGs available at that time like Nickeil Alexander Walker and Kevin Porter Jr have had more productive careers thus far.
20th pick - Traded to Philly who used it to pick Mathise Thybulle. Thybulle already got an All-Defensive team in his name, so he's already did more than any of the guys Boston picked in this draft.
22nd pick - Grant Williams. While Grant is starting to look OKAY this year, he's still an undersized big with physical limitations and can't be relied to score in double digits 2 games in a row. Jordan Poole and Keldon Johnson were available.
33rd pick - Carsen Edwards. Big LOL.
2020:
14th pick - Nesmith - Picking the "best" shooter in the draft made sense, but the Celtics also needed "shooting with size" at the time and Saddiq Bey would've fit perfectly alongside the Jays. Also: Tyrese Maxey.
26th pick - Pritchard -- while he had a good rookie year, he's getting exposed in his second year with his inability to even get off a decent shot except from 3 feet off the 3 point line. He also doesn't offer anything much in terms of defense and playmaking.
30th pick - traded to Memphis as incentive to take Kanter off our hands - used to draft Desmond Freakin Bane. -- utterly DISASTROUS.
47th pick - Yam Madar - not even good enough to get a 2-way.
2021:
16th pick - Anytime you dangle a 1st round pick to get rid of a player, it's almost always a bad deal. While Horford has looked surprisingly solid, this current team doesn't seem to be any better than when Kemba was here. 2-center lineup not looking too hot either.
45th pick - Juhann Begarin - you essentially picked a French Romeo Langford, because one isn't enough. The basketball gods essentially giftwrapped a guy named Brandon BOSTON to you, and you still managed to miss the cue.
Wow, I just signaled two of the many inaccurate points there. Overreacting much to the losses, I am not sure people even cared about Boston JR before last night, but anyway:
1. Yam Madar is better suited learning to play in Europe (under one of the best coaches in the world) than in the G League. It´s funny how many people still underestimate the level of European leagues. The Euroleague is a huge tournament, and fortunately the NBA has understood that and many scouts look for gems there. So I am sure Yam is learning much more there.
2. I don´t see the comparison Begarin vs Langford unless you are talking about their looks. Their games have nothing to do.
Agreed with everything Bohemian said. I'll also add:
-Pritchard so far has been good value for the 26th pick
-Madar was offered a 2-way but chose to play in Europe instead
-The Celtics did not trade Bane or Thybulle. They simply traded the picks. at the time they traded the picks, there was no telling who would or would not be available. Picks outside of the lottery are often used as throw-ins in a trade - those picks are seen as a commodity, they're swapped around like crazy. Some of those picks might turn into good players, some might not. It's just the way it is - it's not "disastrous" as you say. Stop being so dramatic, lol
-You laugh at Edwards, but the 2nd round of the 2019 draft was really weak. There really weren't many better options at the time. If a 2nd round pick doesn't work out, who cares? It's a low risk, high reward pick. It didn't work out that time but we got solid value for a 2nd round pick with Ojeleye and a lot of people think Begarin could turn out to be really good value in the 2nd round as well - Madar could also turn out to be good value in the 2nd round - far too soon to tell for sure on them
-In general, you really can't tell if a pick was a good pick or a bad pick until after the player has been in the league at least 3 full seasons so your whole post is pretty silly cause it hasn't been 3 full seasons for any of these guys - especially considering that with COVID, many of these players didn't have a real offseason/training camp during their first 1-2 seasons
-Not to mention that 90% of these moves were made by Ainge - he is no longer with the team so pointless to bring them up. It's like if I complained to my wife about a bunch of sh*t my ex-wife did 3 years ago lol
Point is the Celtics had, at any point, rights to more or less 10 picks and have not a single starter level player, not a single 10 ppg guy, heck not a single 8th man on a contender out of it.
And the Bane blunder is disastrous because you just dangled a now 16 ppg 3&D efficient scorer to get rid of a player that the franchise decided to bring back a year later. And yes it's different FOs but it's still messed up.
And yes I'm bringing this up because one day when either of the Jays (or both) walks, we'd be looking back at how this franchise failed to surround them with real talent instead of all these "high character" guys who plays with "heart".
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
The problem isn't missing on picks. Giannis is 2013 was such a huge miss that everything else pales by comparison.
The problem isn't Marcus Smart, Grant Williams or any other complementary player.
The problem is that the two stars haven't developed. They are sloppy with the ball and don't make their teammates better.
Also, Schroder is obviously playing for his next contract. He is way too ball dominant and wastes half of every possession just dribbling around.
I do not see a solution other than to blow it up and start over. The conventional wisdom is that if you could just put better players around Tatum and Brown all would be well. The conventional wisdom is wrong. They had veteran shooters around Tatum and Brown last year, and they were a .500 team. They will be .500 again this year and next year and the year after that until Tatum and/or Brown find new homes.
The problem isn't Marcus Smart, Grant Williams or any other complementary player.
The problem is that the two stars haven't developed. They are sloppy with the ball and don't make their teammates better.
Also, Schroder is obviously playing for his next contract. He is way too ball dominant and wastes half of every possession just dribbling around.
I do not see a solution other than to blow it up and start over. The conventional wisdom is that if you could just put better players around Tatum and Brown all would be well. The conventional wisdom is wrong. They had veteran shooters around Tatum and Brown last year, and they were a .500 team. They will be .500 again this year and next year and the year after that until Tatum and/or Brown find new homes.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Curmudgeon wrote:LOL, the Celtics are interested in Victor Wembanyama? Welcome to the club.
Yeah. 17 yrs old. Prospective 2023 No. 1 pick.:
Victor Wembanyama
Would love to get him stateside.
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Nothing is given."
~ Jayson Tatum
Nothing is given."
~ Jayson Tatum
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Curmudgeon wrote:The problem isn't missing on picks. Giannis is 2013 was such a huge miss that everything else pales by comparison.
The problem isn't Marcus Smart, Grant Williams or any other complementary player.
The problem is that the two stars haven't developed. They are sloppy with the ball and don't make their teammates better.
Also, Schroder is obviously playing for his next contract. He is way too ball dominant and wastes half of every possession just dribbling around.
I do not see a solution other than to blow it up and start over. The conventional wisdom is that if you could just put better players around Tatum and Brown all would be well. The conventional wisdom is wrong. They had veteran shooters around Tatum and Brown last year, and they were a .500 team. They will be .500 again this year and next year and the year after that until Tatum and/or Brown find new homes.
Basically same team, plus Hayward, and the Celts were on pace for 50 wins and they reached the ECF in 2020.
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Fierce1 wrote:
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Smart was an important member of that team too. Basically Hayward was replaced by Horford, not Smart.
The league has improved. Every team has more shooters. Boston has some young shooters (Nesmith, Pritchard) but they rarely see the floor and when they do, they don't get the ball. Instead they stand around watching Tatum and Schroder dribble.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Curmudgeon wrote:Fierce1 wrote:
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Smart was an important member of that team too. Basically Hayward was replaced by Horford, not Smart.
The league has improved. Every team has more shooters. Boston has some young shooters (Nesmith, Pritchard) but they rarely see the floor and when they do, they don't get the ball. Instead they stand around watching Tatum and Schroder dribble.
I can almost accept tatum. It ia supposedly his team.
But denis is a nightmare.
Especially with brown out.
Slowly pounds the clock away and has tatjm standing waiting for a spot up. We need tatum going inside to start with, not outside in.
Denis **** kills ball movement and momentum and unless he is dropping 20ppg he is a negative on the court
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Larry_Russell wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:Fierce1 wrote:
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Smart was an important member of that team too. Basically Hayward was replaced by Horford, not Smart.
The league has improved. Every team has more shooters. Boston has some young shooters (Nesmith, Pritchard) but they rarely see the floor and when they do, they don't get the ball. Instead they stand around watching Tatum and Schroder dribble.
I can almost accept tatum. It ia supposedly his team.
But denis is a nightmare.
Especially with brown out.
Slowly pounds the clock away and has tatjm standing waiting for a spot up. We need tatum going inside to start with, not outside in.
Denis **** kills ball movement and momentum and unless he is dropping 20ppg he is a negative on the court
Dennis won't be a Celtic soon.
Just doesn't make sense for the Celts to not hold on to him when he's clearly leaving after the season.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Curmudgeon wrote:Fierce1 wrote:
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Smart was an important member of that team too. Basically Hayward was replaced by Horford, not Smart.
The league has improved. Every team has more shooters. Boston has some young shooters (Nesmith, Pritchard) but they rarely see the floor and when they do, they don't get the ball. Instead they stand around watching Tatum and Schroder dribble.
Last season Horford wasn't with the Celtics.
You said last season the Tatum and Brown were surrounded by veteran shooters.
Last season was when Hayward left Boston to sign with Charlotte.
In his place was Marcus Smart.
Celts went from Kemba, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, and Theis to Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Theis.
And early in the season Kemba missed a lot of games.
If the issue is Nesmith and Pritchard not seeing the floor and not getting the ball then that's a coaching issue.
Last season under Brad, both Nesmith and Pritchard were playing well.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Well, they did nave Kemba and Fournier. I realize you want to blame everything on Smart, but you are just wrong. Last night the whole team shot badly, not just Smart. Tatum hoisted brick after brick. The only guy who shot well was the other guy people love to hate: Grant Williams.
But don't worry. Going forward Brown will be back and the Celtics will notch a few victories against mediocre teams like themselves. Tatum and Brown will put up gaudy scoring numbers (they take 75% of the team's shots, so they should) and once again the fanbase will be clamoring for a better supporting cast. It won't work, not if the franchise has championship aspirations.
They will get their butts kicked against Brooklyn, Phoenix, Utah, Milwaukee, Golden State and every other legitimate contender. But people will make excuses and it will be just another year picking the next Nesmith or Langford in the draft at no. 15 to sit on the bench or stand in the corner while Tatum and Brown have their fun.
Let's see. They have 9 games left in December. Four of them are sure losses: Milwaukee (twice) Golden State and Phoenix. The Clippers are a probable loss if Paul George plays, so o I have them at 4-5 for the remainder of the month, and that is the best case. Back on the old treadmill.
But don't worry. Going forward Brown will be back and the Celtics will notch a few victories against mediocre teams like themselves. Tatum and Brown will put up gaudy scoring numbers (they take 75% of the team's shots, so they should) and once again the fanbase will be clamoring for a better supporting cast. It won't work, not if the franchise has championship aspirations.
They will get their butts kicked against Brooklyn, Phoenix, Utah, Milwaukee, Golden State and every other legitimate contender. But people will make excuses and it will be just another year picking the next Nesmith or Langford in the draft at no. 15 to sit on the bench or stand in the corner while Tatum and Brown have their fun.
Let's see. They have 9 games left in December. Four of them are sure losses: Milwaukee (twice) Golden State and Phoenix. The Clippers are a probable loss if Paul George plays, so o I have them at 4-5 for the remainder of the month, and that is the best case. Back on the old treadmill.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Fierce1 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:Fierce1 wrote:
The biggest change from 2020 to last season is Hayward left and Marcus Smart took his place.
Hard to believe that there is no drop-off in talent when you go from Hayward to Smart in the starting lineup.
Smart was an important member of that team too. Basically Hayward was replaced by Horford, not Smart.
The league has improved. Every team has more shooters. Boston has some young shooters (Nesmith, Pritchard) but they rarely see the floor and when they do, they don't get the ball. Instead they stand around watching Tatum and Schroder dribble.
Last season Horford wasn't with the Celtics.
You said last season the Tatum and Brown were surrounded by veteran shooters.
Last season was when Hayward left Boston to sign with Charlotte.
In his place was Marcus Smart.
Celts went from Kemba, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, and Theis to Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Theis.
And early in the season Kemba missed a lot of games.
If the issue is Nesmith and Pritchard not seeing the floor and not getting the ball then that's a coaching issue.
Last season under Brad, both Nesmith and Pritchard were playing well.
and playing well as rookies with no Training camp.. They killed in the summer league and was poised for perhaps a breakout year.. Fast forward to now and we see what has happened.
2 things need to go.. my lack of spell check and Joe.. 

Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Curmudgeon wrote:Well, they did nave Kemba and Fournier. I realize you want to blame everything on Smart, but you are just wrong. Last night the whole team shot badly, not just Smart. Tatum hoisted brick after brick. The only guy who shot well was the other guy people love to hate: Grant Williams.
But don't worry. Going forward Brown will be back and the Celtics will notch a few victories against mediocre teams like themselves. Tatum and Brown will put up gaudy scoring numbers (they take 75% of the team's shots, so they should) and once again the fanbase will be clamoring for a better supporting cast. It won't work, not if the franchise has championship aspirations.
They will get their butts kicked against Brooklyn, Phoenix, Utah, Milwaukee, Golden State and every other legitimate contender. But people will make excuses and it will be just another year picking the next Nesmith or Langford in the draft at no. 15 to sit on the bench or stand in the corner while Tatum and Brown have their fun.
Let's see. They have 9 games left in December. Four of them are sure losses: Milwaukee (twice) Golden State and Phoenix. The Clippers are a probable loss if Paul George plays, so o I have them at 4-5 for the remainder of the month, and that is the best case. Back on the old treadmill.
I'm not blaming it all on Smart.
All I'm saying is when you replace Hayward with Smart, there is a significant drop-off in talent.
Also, Fournier was only acquired at the trade deadline.
He only played 16 regular season games for the Celts last season.
So saying that Tatum and Brown were surrounded by veteran shooters is not accurate.
It's true that the Celts can only beat the average teams.
That's why changes must be made.
Celts will most likely lose to Milwaukee and GSW.
So yeah, it's back on the old treadmill.
Fixing the Celtics requires logic instead of emotion.
Why would you get rid of Tatum and Brown?
That's just ridiculous!
The first step is to surround them with quality players who can make shots when they're open.
If that doesn't work then that's the time you ponder if is it really time to blow it up and start over again.
Lottery teams are dreaming of ending up with a guy like Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown.
So you blow it up hoping you would end up with the next Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown?
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
The more I think about it, we have been trending down since the moment we decide double bigs was a good idea.
I'm very much of the opinion that the Jay's need pace and space to thrive..double bigs destroys both.
We have a good roster, they just suck as a team.
I'm very much of the opinion that the Jay's need pace and space to thrive..double bigs destroys both.
We have a good roster, they just suck as a team.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Our two most-used starting lineups...
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
- Bohemian
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
zoyathedestroya wrote:Our two most-used starting lineups...
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
It´s not Schröder´s fault, come on.
In any case, I don´t think there will be any trade this season. The team had a lot of changes in the offseason and it´s more reasonable to try and fix this situation with the players we have. Ime can try new combinations, and hopefully the return of Jaylen will make things easier.
Let´s go Celtics!
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
zoyathedestroya wrote:Our two most-used starting lineups...
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
I have been saying signing Schroder was a mistake and getting chewed out for it in this forum. Schroder needs to go.
Schroder’s pounding of the ball, dribble, dribble, dribble and his willingness to keep calling his own number anytime he feels the need especially in crunch time is keeping the Celtics from playing the way they want to play.
The numbers prove it
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Celts17Pride wrote:zoyathedestroya wrote:Our two most-used starting lineups...
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
I have been saying signing Schroder was a mistake and getting chewed out for it in this forum. Schroder needs to go.
Schroder’s pounding of the ball, dribble, dribble, dribble and his willingness to keep calling his own number anytime he feels the need especially in crunch time is keeping the Celtics from playing the way they want to play.
The numbers prove it
All the numbers prove is that Schroder has been a good or better than Smart at 1/3 the cost. Just cuz you dive in the floor doesnt mean you're a good player. His contract flat out sucks. No guards are suck like him at scoring and make that kind of money in the league. Teams have been laughing at Smart launching 3's his whole career at a high clip left wide open on purpose
Every team wishes they had a 11/5/4 guy making 18 mil shooting 38% 28% from 3 with declining defense..
Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
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Re: Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread, 2nd Edition
Bohemian wrote:zoyathedestroya wrote:Our two most-used starting lineups...
Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: +19.6 net rating
Schroder-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Timelord: -18.6 net rating
Schroder is trade-eligible in 3 days.
It´s not Schröder´s fault, come on.
In any case, I don´t think there will be any trade this season. The team had a lot of changes in the offseason and it´s more reasonable to try and fix this situation with the players we have. Ime can try new combinations, and hopefully the return of Jaylen will make things easier.
Let´s go Celtics!
Denis is 70% or more of the blame here.
He pushes marcua to sg where he is dar LESS effeftive
When smart plays as a pg his shots come more from the baseline for 3 pointers which he makes close to 50% on. As a shoot8ng guard, all above the break 3s which he makes 30% on. Denis starting makes marcus worse.
He makes tatum srand around at start of game.
Schroder handles the ball, ALOT. As a result, while he does so it makes tatum become a spot up shooter to start the game. We all know tatum needs to start the game getting plays that semd jim to the rim.
He makes the offense harder.
Denis refuses to push the ball at any time. His slow play in bringing the ball up allows opposing defenses to get completely set