Lonzo Ball discussion thread

[GoBlue72391]

It’s game over once Lonzo turns in an elite midrange to post up game. Easy max cat for his next contract.

Well gee, if it were that easy everyone would have a max contract.

[GoBlue72391]

Watching him on the alley-oop last night made me question why he doesn't dunk more on his fast breaks. Honestly, I didn't think the could get up. I'm not sure what to make of his midrange. He's a worker, so I think he'll find a spot or two that will work for him, but it's so broke right now. Teams know that and, IMO, trap him into taking those shots...he needs to recognize that and find a way to just dribble back out and take the 3.

My real issue with him is his finishing. Honestly, on the rare occasion when he gets to the rim it looks like he just blindly tosses the ball at the backboard and unsurprisingly he misses a ton of layups. The drive last night where he had a nice crossover and missed the layup only to be bailed out by a foul call is a great example of that. I've never seen anything like it from an NBA caliber player.

Sorta reminds me of Hutch and Dunn in that way. I think some guys get distracted and don't look at the rim, and misjudge their shot.

That's understandable for a middle school or high school or low-level college player, but that is utterly inexcusable for an NBA player. Looking at the rim when you attempt to score is Basketball 101 stuff.

[sco]

My real issue with him is his finishing. Honestly, on the rare occasion when he gets to the rim it looks like he just blindly tosses the ball at the backboard and unsurprisingly he misses a ton of layups. The drive last night where he had a nice crossover and missed the layup only to be bailed out by a foul call is a great example of that. I've never seen anything like it from an NBA caliber player.

Sorta reminds me of Hutch and Dunn in that way. I think some guys get distracted and don't look at the rim, and misjudge their shot.

That's understandable for a middle school or high school or low-level college player, but that is utterly inexcusable for an NBA player. Looking at the rim when you attempt to score is Basketball 101 stuff.

I get it more for PG's who are looking out for more that shot blockers (ie passing targets), but clearly there are just some guys who have trouble at the rim.

[Markksman_24]

Starting PG for Team Giannas or Team Curry right here.......

I just remember thinking how lucky the Lakers were getting a hometown kid groomed to play basketball.
I envisioned his jersey hanging in the rafters after 20 years with the Lakers.

I also recall the argument on his shot mechanics pre drfat.
They all said it was broken, were gonna change it.
But I remember looking at his one year ast UCLA he shot over.400 from 3 and thinking he ain't that broken.....

His quiet demeanor is probably my favorite thing about him.
Old #2 Norm Van Lier would have LOVED this kid.

He's not making the all-star team, and he sure as hell isn't starting the all-star game. Let's just squash that hope right now. DeMar and Zach are clearly ahead of him and so is Vuch, and we're not going to have 3 all-stars, let alone 4. Even if that wasn't the case, he has no merit for making the all-star team.

He's averaging less than 5 APG and can't do anything on offense besides shoot 3s and as such he's barely shooting above 40% from the floor. I've said it before, but if his three ever comes back down to earth his flaws will only become more obvious.

Having said that, his defense, outlet passing, and spot-up shooting have given a huge boost to us, so don't mistake me for saying he's a bad player. He's just not an all-star.

I agree with you that he's a good player but not an all-star, however I hate this criticism (bolded)... when someone takes twice as many 3s as he does 2s, of course he'll have a low field goal percentage. As long as he's hitting enough 3s, which Lonzo obviously is, who cares about the overall stat? It just feels like applying a one-size-fits-all approach to a unique player.

[dougthonus]

I agree with you that he's a good player but not an all-star, however I hate this criticism (bolded)... when someone takes twice as many 3s as he does 2s, of course he'll have a low field goal percentage. As long as he's hitting enough 3s, which Lonzo obviously is, who cares about the overall stat? It just feels like applying a one-size-fits-all approach to a unique player.

I agree Lonzo's overall FG% is sort of irrelevant, but if you wanted to point out that he's a bad finisher then that is a fair criticism. Lonzo is the ultimate support player, he does everything you could imagine for a guy that can't go get a bucket on his own or draw gravity to create looks for others.

[madvillian]

I agree with you that he's a good player but not an all-star, however I hate this criticism (bolded)... when someone takes twice as many 3s as he does 2s, of course he'll have a low field goal percentage. As long as he's hitting enough 3s, which Lonzo obviously is, who cares about the overall stat? It just feels like applying a one-size-fits-all approach to a unique player.

I agree Lonzo's overall FG% is sort of irrelevant, but if you wanted to point out that he's a bad finisher then that is a fair criticism. Lonzo is the ultimate support player, he does everything you could imagine for a guy that can't go get a bucket on his own or draw gravity to create looks for others.

He's a guy that needs to have athletes around him to push in transition and better options in the half court to minimize his weaknesses there. He's certainly not a guy you want pounding the ball up top in a horns set over and over or trying to throw it to him late in the shot clock to generate a look. But his is a helluva player in transition and a shot maker off other's creation from catch and shoot. In that way I give AKME massive credit because it's one thing to have an idea of how synergy works on the court but it's another thing entirely to execute it near perfectly.

I would imagine if you asked the FO even they would be a bit surprised how well all the pieces fit.

[ATRAIN53]

Now that I think about it, maybe Lonzo won;t make the team because Lavine and DeRozan are gonna nudge him out!

2021 Backcourt Eastern Conference voting-

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2021_voting-backcourt-eastern-conference.html

Top 6 Guards from last year-
2020-21 Bradley Beal 3,485,051 1
2020-21 Kyrie Irving 2,765,320 2
2020-21 James Harden 2,347,594 3
2020-21 Zach LaVine 1,500,979 4
2020-21 Jaylen Brown 1,401,416 5
2020-21 Trae Young 991,857 6

Remember this is (supposedly) fan driven.

I don't think people are going to automatically picking Harden on ballots.
Irving being on there really isn't fair if he doesn't play, but his name and rep has got to be taking a hit with him sitting out.

It's also in CLE - one of Kyries former teams....

and Caruso has almost as many votes as Chris Paul last year.
He's gonna get a nice bump from the CHI fans too....

[sco]

Now that I think about it, maybe Lonzo won;t make the team because Lavine and DeRozan are gonna nudge him out!

2021 Backcourt Eastern Conference voting-

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2021_voting-backcourt-eastern-conference.html

Top 6 Guards from last year-
2020-21 Bradley Beal 3,485,051 1
2020-21 Kyrie Irving 2,765,320 2
2020-21 James Harden 2,347,594 3
2020-21 Zach LaVine 1,500,979 4
2020-21 Jaylen Brown 1,401,416 5
2020-21 Trae Young 991,857 6

Remember this is (supposedly) fan driven.

I don't think people are going to automatically picking Harden on ballots.
Irving being on there really isn't fair if he doesn't play, but his name and rep has got to be taking a hit with him sitting out.

It's also in CLE - one of Kyries former teams....

and Caruso has almost as many votes as Chris Paul last year.
He's gonna get a nice bump from the CHI fans too....

Brown shouldn't be categorized as a guard...I love that Caruso finished ahead of SGA and McCollum (and DDR), last year.

[GoBlue72391]

Starting PG for Team Giannas or Team Curry right here.......

I just remember thinking how lucky the Lakers were getting a hometown kid groomed to play basketball.
I envisioned his jersey hanging in the rafters after 20 years with the Lakers.

I also recall the argument on his shot mechanics pre drfat.
They all said it was broken, were gonna change it.
But I remember looking at his one year ast UCLA he shot over.400 from 3 and thinking he ain't that broken.....

His quiet demeanor is probably my favorite thing about him.
Old #2 Norm Van Lier would have LOVED this kid.

He's not making the all-star team, and he sure as hell isn't starting the all-star game. Let's just squash that hope right now. DeMar and Zach are clearly ahead of him and so is Vuch, and we're not going to have 3 all-stars, let alone 4. Even if that wasn't the case, he has no merit for making the all-star team.

He's averaging less than 5 APG and can't do anything on offense besides shoot 3s and as such he's barely shooting above 40% from the floor. I've said it before, but if his three ever comes back down to earth his flaws will only become more obvious.

Having said that, his defense, outlet passing, and spot-up shooting have given a huge boost to us, so don't mistake me for saying he's a bad player. He's just not an all-star.

I agree with you that he's a good player but not an all-star, however I hate this criticism (bolded)... when someone takes twice as many 3s as he does 2s, of course he'll have a low field goal percentage. As long as he's hitting enough 3s, which Lonzo obviously is, who cares about the overall stat? It just feels like applying a one-size-fits-all approach to a unique player.

I was just using it as a way to further illustrate how one-dimensional he is on offense.

For a better look at how ineffective he is at scoring on non-threes, he's shooting under 50% on lay-ups, under 30% on attempts between 3 and 16 feet, and 15% on attempts from 16 feet up to the 3-point line.

[GoBlue72391]

Now that I think about it, maybe Lonzo won;t make the team because Lavine and DeRozan are gonna nudge him out!

2021 Backcourt Eastern Conference voting-

https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2021_voting-backcourt-eastern-conference.html

Top 6 Guards from last year-
2020-21 Bradley Beal 3,485,051 1
2020-21 Kyrie Irving 2,765,320 2
2020-21 James Harden 2,347,594 3
2020-21 Zach LaVine 1,500,979 4
2020-21 Jaylen Brown 1,401,416 5
2020-21 Trae Young 991,857 6

Remember this is (supposedly) fan driven.

I don't think people are going to automatically picking Harden on ballots.
Irving being on there really isn't fair if he doesn't play, but his name and rep has got to be taking a hit with him sitting out.

It's also in CLE - one of Kyries former teams....

and Caruso has almost as many votes as Chris Paul last year.
He's gonna get a nice bump from the CHI fans too....

I mean, even if DeMar and Zach were somehow ineligible for the all-star game, Lonzo still wouldn't make it. He's just not deserving, and in reality doesn't even have a legitimate argument.

He's a good player, and more specifically he's a good player for us and fits exactly what we need from his position, but he's averaging 12 PPG, 6 RPG, 5 APG, 2 SPG, 1 BPG on 41/43/73 splits with a 55 TS% and 14 PER. Even with All-NBA caliber defense that's not nearly enough to make an all-star game unless his team is GSW levels of dominance, and even then Draymond Green had far better production than Lonzo does.

He is however an extremely popular player, so his only hope of making the all-star team is if a bunch of people ignore production and just stuff the ballots for him, similar to what happened with Yao, Kobe, Iverson, etc. when they were injured for the entire season. But that's also extremely unlikely, so let's just stop with the Lonzo is an all-star discussion unless he actually starts playing like an all-star.

[NecessaryEvil]

Following Monday’s impressive win over the Denver Nuggets, the Chicago Bulls have a player in the league that is one of a kind, literally. Statistics show that guard Lonzo Ball is the only player in the NBA with 120+ rebounds, 120+ assists, 40+ steals, and 25+ blocks

https://ontapsportsnet.com/2021/12/08/bulls-lonzo-ball-becoming-a-star-in-chicago-nba/

[meekrab]

and Caruso has almost as many votes as Chris Paul last year.
He's gonna get a nice bump from the CHI fans too....

Random Laker player got lots of all star votes? Say it ain't so!

That guy edging into the voting will be THT this year.

[MalagaBulls]

Can't working with Mo Cheeks address some of those warts?

[TwoStarz]

Huge Lonzo fan here and most of what ya'll are saying about is pretty accurate.

Coming in to the league, I had very high hopes for Lonzo as a shooter, playmaker, defender and finisher.

Despite his shaky start as a shooter, I knew it was only a matter of time till he develops confidence and starts ripping that **** clean. Now, he did make altercations to his form, but his release was always pure and quick, even before the change. It was his base and set-up that was the issue, which has since been corrected.

His playmaking is obviously elite but what use to stand out to me as an eye sour was his inability to navigate the PNR and generate good looks for his teammates in the half court. It sucks cause he never really developed that style. In Chino he was an excellent playmaker but it was mostly in transition as HS is more up and down. Same thing in college, he was an excellent playmaker, but that was mostly in transition and it reared its ugly head when Kentucky slowed down the game in the sweet sixteen and he was rendered useless.

Now don't get me wrong, his playmaking style is still very infectious and it has some sort of energy about it that I can't quite explain, but I'm sure ya'll are seeing it now too. The team feeds off it, more than it shows up in his individual stats.

It's why he led Chino Hills to that historic year, beating multiple prep schools in the process, and why he lead UCLA to a great season despite that team being very limited in talent outside of him.

His defense is obviously elite and that has been apparent since H/S. You can't teach his anticipation and ability to read plays as they develop to go along with quick and long hands. He is excellent on that end, and even was in New Orleans but its hard to cover for 4 other guys on the court.

His finishing has always been bad... I was really hoping this would be something he improved on as he got stronger and older, but its seemed to regress and he almost never looks to go inside anymore. I don't think this part of his game will ever develop as he seems to lack touch and finesse around the basket. I also thing, like a poster mentioned previously, he gets caught up between laying it up or passing it and ends up just making a bad decision most of the time.

Having said all that, he really is a PG version of Draymond Green. Alone they aren't moving the needle much, but on a good team they can take you to that elite level. He has all the intangibles. Extremely important archetype on a winning team.

I'd argue he has the third most important player on the bulls, ahead of Vuc.

After years of getting trashed and not being wanted by multiple teams, it makes my heart happy to see ZO find a home and having success with it.

[sco]

Just wanted to give Zo credit. Dude is 3rd in the NBA in 3pt'ers made so far this season! Let that sink in.

[Ice Man]

Just wanted to give Zo credit. Dude is 3rd in the NBA in 3pt'ers made so far this season! Let that sink in.

He's a stud 3&D player with the added benefit of being a great transition passer. That's who Lonzo is.

[Wingy]

Just wanted to give Zo credit. Dude is 3rd in the NBA in 3pt'ers made so far this season! Let that sink in.

He's a stud 3&D player with the added benefit of being a great transition passer. That's who Lonzo is.

One of the very best in the league it seems. I wonder as a point of analysis (not intended as criticism) if he's overpaid. Not sure what the going rate for elite 3&D wing players is.

I'll say one thing from pure, personal anecdote. I expected him to be 3&D coming in, and that he'd be clearly overpaid in my eyes.

His defense has been better than I thought, and now I don't know as he's overpaid at all anymore considering age, and potential to improve. I hope he spends a lot of time working with Demar. He could really use a ton of help in the mid-range. It's really holding him back from leveling up, but I'm hopeful he'll get there considering his work on his shot.

[sco]

Just wanted to give Zo credit. Dude is 3rd in the NBA in 3pt'ers made so far this season! Let that sink in.

He's a stud 3&D player with the added benefit of being a great transition passer. That's who Lonzo is.

One of the very best in the league it seems. I wonder as a point of analysis (not intended as criticism) if he's overpaid. Not sure what the going rate for elite 3&D wing players is.

I'll say one thing from pure, personal anecdote. I expected him to be 3&D coming in, and that he'd be clearly overpaid in my eyes.

His defense has been better than I thought, and now I don't know as he's overpaid at all anymore considering age, and potential to improve. I hope he spends a lot of time working with Demar. He could really use a ton of help in the mid-range. It's really holding him back from leveling up, but I'm hopeful he'll get there considering his work on his shot.

I get why folks think he'd be better with a mid-range game.

That said, I'd be happy for this season, if he just focused on 3 & D, and maximizing his strengths. As our 4th option scorer, he's gonna get a bunch of open looks from 3...and more if he actually looks for them. And look, he's at 7 attempts a game. I'd be fine if he gets that to 9. Moreover, rather than the mid-range, I'd have him focus on scoring at the rim.

[TheSuzerain]

Wanting Lonzo to add a midrange game is really bizarre.

[Wingy]

He's a stud 3&D player with the added benefit of being a great transition passer. That's who Lonzo is.

One of the very best in the league it seems. I wonder as a point of analysis (not intended as criticism) if he's overpaid. Not sure what the going rate for elite 3&D wing players is.

I'll say one thing from pure, personal anecdote. I expected him to be 3&D coming in, and that he'd be clearly overpaid in my eyes.

His defense has been better than I thought, and now I don't know as he's overpaid at all anymore considering age, and potential to improve. I hope he spends a lot of time working with Demar. He could really use a ton of help in the mid-range. It's really holding him back from leveling up, but I'm hopeful he'll get there considering his work on his shot.

I get why folks think he'd be better with a mid-range game.

That said, I'd be happy for this season, if he just focused on 3 & D, and maximizing his strengths. As our 4th option scorer, he's gonna get a bunch of open looks from 3...and more if he actually looks for them. And look, he's at 7 attempts a game. I'd be fine if he gets that to 9. Moreover, rather than the mid-range, I'd have him focus on scoring at the rim.

I’m talking focuses for off-seasons the next few years. One of the reasons for that is because he’s not that good at the rim, and I don’t know how much he’ll improve there. He’s a decent athlete, but not particularly explosive. If he’s comfortable scoring from 8-15 feet, he doesn’t have to get amongst the trees. I’m not saying it’s a lost cause, and he should give up, but he can and should work on both.