PG: GRIMES Shines. Stat Whore Randle Throws in the Towel

[Clyde_Style]

I think Knox will have a better post Knicks career than a Frank. Won’t take much I know but if he can get another contract and do better than 5 mins: 0 0 0 0 0 0 he’ll have him beat. We put him in there cold for one game and makes 5 3s with no chemistry or anything. Great use of a #8 pick just don’t play them for 3 years

He can shoot

This franchise is maddening

[Deeeez Knicks]

I want Thibs to play the youth more and wish he did some things differently, but I can't blame him for the results. The team just isn't that good. He got more out of Randle then any other coach so I can't blame him for Randle's play.

Biggest issue with Randle is that he's not hitting his 3 and mid-range shot. The rest of his game has fallen apart. When things arent going his way he spirals downward.

[thebuzzardman]

You're critiquing the player. Thibs offence sucks. That's the problem with Randle right now. Put him in a better offence and he will be fine.

Knicks play 4 out with their non scoring centre on the dunker's spot. Aside from chucking 3s they have Randle pick and post. But Noel or Robinson's man plays off them in a zone cutting off Randle's passing angles. The bigs don't lift or leave to set off ball screens. And nobody else moves in the offemce.

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I agree with your assessment but I also think you’re being a little too generous with Randle. He looks so lost out there on the court. A complete loss of confidence and inability to assimilate his game with the team. Moreover, Fournier and Kemba were poor additions, apparently. I was hopeful at the time of the signings but it just hasn’t worked out.

I hope we understand the fallacy of sunk costs.

Randle is lost out there. But he's playing a role in a bad offence. He can't his shots any more and there are no other reliable scorers and he can't get space on the block.

Does anybody look good in this offence?

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There surely isn't much movement. It's disappointing. Not that Thibs is known as some kind of offensive innovator, but his Bulls teams seemed to move, cut, make plays. No one would have confused them with the GSWs or Spurs, but it seemed decent, in a fundamental kind of way. But this collection, it's the same play over and over again, with very few variations. Here comes the 5 to set the pick....there's the guy standing by the 3 point line in the corner...

[prophet_of_rage]

I agree with your assessment but I also think you’re being a little too generous with Randle. He looks so lost out there on the court. A complete loss of confidence and inability to assimilate his game with the team. Moreover, Fournier and Kemba were poor additions, apparently. I was hopeful at the time of the signings but it just hasn’t worked out.

I hope we understand the fallacy of sunk costs.

Randle is lost out there. But he's playing a role in a bad offence. He can't his shots any more and there are no other reliable scorers and he can't get space on the block.

Does anybody look good in this offence?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

There surely isn't much movement. It's disappointing. Not that Thibs is known as some kind of offensive innovator, but his Bulls teams seemed to move, cut, make plays. No one would have confused them with the GSWs or Spurs, but it seemed decent, in a fundamental kind of way. But this collection, it's the same play over and over again, with very few variations. Here comes the 5 to set the pick....there's the guy standing by the 3 point line in the corner...

Correct and in Chicago he played Noah at the high post with everybody cutting off him.

Thibs can't get over the need to play Robinson or Noel for defence but they can't pass. A 1-3-1 set to run the actions would help limit Randle's dribbling.

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[Deeeez Knicks]

I agree with your assessment but I also think you’re being a little too generous with Randle. He looks so lost out there on the court. A complete loss of confidence and inability to assimilate his game with the team. Moreover, Fournier and Kemba were poor additions, apparently. I was hopeful at the time of the signings but it just hasn’t worked out.

I hope we understand the fallacy of sunk costs.

Randle is lost out there. But he's playing a role in a bad offence. He can't his shots any more and there are no other reliable scorers and he can't get space on the block.

Does anybody look good in this offence?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

There surely isn't much movement. It's disappointing. Not that Thibs is known as some kind of offensive innovator, but his Bulls teams seemed to move, cut, make plays. No one would have confused them with the GSWs or Spurs, but it seemed decent, in a fundamental kind of way. But this collection, it's the same play over and over again, with very few variations. Here comes the 5 to set the pick....there's the guy standing by the 3 point line in the corner...

Thibs could do things differently, but its the players more then the coach. We just don't have the players

[DaGawd]

What’s happening with Obi, Grimes, Duece, Knox etc is the reason I don’t trust the build thru the draft strategy for this franchise. Guys we draft in the frickin lottery get buried on the bench for almost the entirety of their rookie contracts in favor of playing veteran known commodities and never get to properly develop. We ruin any potential prospects may have had. Unless a player was top 4 pick it seems you don’t get a chance to play thru your mistakes and develop here. Only RJ and KP got consistent minutes

[thebuzzardman]

Randle is lost out there. But he's playing a role in a bad offence. He can't his shots any more and there are no other reliable scorers and he can't get space on the block.

Does anybody look good in this offence?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

There surely isn't much movement. It's disappointing. Not that Thibs is known as some kind of offensive innovator, but his Bulls teams seemed to move, cut, make plays. No one would have confused them with the GSWs or Spurs, but it seemed decent, in a fundamental kind of way. But this collection, it's the same play over and over again, with very few variations. Here comes the 5 to set the pick....there's the guy standing by the 3 point line in the corner...

Thibs could do things differently, but its the players more then the coach. We just don't have the players

So, for both the limitations of the players, and that of the coach, it's back to the fault of the FO for not recognizing Thibs needs certain kinds of players on offense to get Maximum Thibs - like a better offensive C in the mix, and maybe players more inclined to cut?

I'd also think it's a bit of both, that Thibs is kind of stubborn, because Fournier seems like a guy who moves around a lot, at least that's what I recall watching him with the Magic and in Celts clips. But maybe he only does that when he's a #1 or #2 option.

Anyway, while Thibs has issues, it's mostly the players and really, the FO. I tried telling a relative who is much more into Football, when we discussing bad teams - he's in Jaguar territory - that both sports require players that have talent, but Basketball is more dependent on talent and less on coaching than Football. IMHO, Football being the sport where coaching can make a difference, while in the NBA, a good coach can have a team prepared, and the coach can certainly be a help in making a difference - preparation, defensive intensity etc, but in the NBA, most coaches don't move the needle. I think Thibs actually moves the needle in a positive way - at least on defense, but the Knicks just lack talent. Particularly of a certain kind.

[nedleeds]

a competent franchise would now deal one of burks/rose/fournier and give grimes, deuce and IQ as much time as possible.

we are probably looking for a marginal veteran upgrade at the deadline.

Do Rose a **** solid. Guy has resurrected his career and would be cool to see him get a shot at a chip.

- Bucks
- Heat
- Suns
- Clippers with Kawhi (or is he cooked for the whole year?)
- Lakers (I think they are cooked regardless)

could all use Rose as 6th man, actually Rose would win 6th man of the year if he was on a good team.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm not going to retread my recent posts about Knicks getting Turner, or some fantasy move for Simmons, or is there a way they can get a G/SF in here with some real skills or maybe a backup PG, but the trade deadline is 2 days away. For me, it's a chance for the FO to PARTIALLY redeem itself. I can't envision a move or moves that solves everything. But I need to see something. I'll accept if no moves happen - it takes two to deal and other teams want to get better too.
But competent FO's seem to find a way.
If the Knicks don't make a move, it's another sign this FO is in over it's head.
I mean, I think it's obvious they are.

We shall see.

[thebuzzardman]

a competent franchise would now deal one of burks/rose/fournier and give grimes, deuce and IQ as much time as possible.

we are probably looking for a marginal veteran upgrade at the deadline.

Do Rose a **** solid. Guy has resurrected his career and would be cool to see him get a shot at a chip.

- Bucks
- Heat
- Suns
- Clippers with Kawhi (or is he cooked for the whole year?)
- Lakers (I think they are cooked regardless)

could all use Rose as 6th man, actually Rose would win 6th man of the year if he was on a good team.

This team would fold like a cheap tent if Rose is traded. Which I guess isn't a bad idea.

[god shammgod]

knox doesn't play because he can't play nba defense at all and his shot isn't consistent enough to make up for that. he's had other games where he hit a bunch of 3s. he never has shown he can do it regularly.

[robillionaire]

knox doesn't play because he can't play nba defense at all and his shot isn't consistent enough to make up for that

yet Evan Fournier starts and got 4 years 80 million

[god shammgod]

knox doesn't play because he can't play nba defense at all and his shot isn't consistent enough to make up for that

yet Evan Fournier starts

because they paid him all that money. only reason. if he was on a 1 year deal he'd already been benched.

[Handledatruth]

knox doesn't play because he can't play nba defense at all and his shot isn't consistent enough to make up for that

yet Evan Fournier starts and got 4 years 80 million

This

[Jay10]

Here's my last ditch starting lineup with this group.

Rose
Randle
Noel
RJ
Fournier

Put Burks back with the second unit.

Burks
IQ
Grimes
Mitch/Obi
Obi/Knox

If this doesn't work between now and February 1, 2022, then try and deal Randle and Fournier and maybe even Noel and/or Kemba.

The starting lineup isn't going to work if it doesn't include a perimeter defender.

The only difference between last season and this season is the Knicks not having a defender in the backcourt.

[3toheadmelo]

sham bombs!!

The New York Knicks, Los Angeles Lakers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Sacramento Kings, Indiana Pacers and Cleveland Cavaliers are among the teams interested in Simmons, sources said, although it’s unclear how much traction Philadelphia truly has on any move.

Sources said teams are inquiring about Knicks forward Kevin Knox, who has played in just four games this season and has rival executives wondering the plan for the 22-year-old in New York. Knox scored 18 points, grabbed five rebounds and made five 3-pointers in 29 minutes agains the Milwaukee Bucks on Sunday — his first extended run of the season. He was the Knicks’ No. 9 overall pick in the 2018 NBA Draft. After averaging 12.8 points and 4.5 rebounds in 75 games (57 starts) as a rookie, Knox has failed to gain traction in the organization, but could something change?

[Richard4444]

Here's my last ditch starting lineup with this group.

Rose
Randle
Noel
RJ
Fournier

Put Burks back with the second unit.

Burks
IQ
Grimes
Mitch/Obi
Obi/Knox

If this doesn't work between now and February 1, 2022, then try and deal Randle and Fournier and maybe even Noel and/or Kemba.

The starting lineup isn't going to work if it doesn't include a perimeter defender.

The only difference between last season and this season is the Knicks not having a defender in the backcourt.

And a real PG. Payton was mediocre but we at least had a PG.

[robillionaire]

sham bombs!!

The New York Knicks, Los Angeles Lakers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Sacramento Kings, Indiana Pacers and Cleveland Cavaliers are among the teams interested in Simmons, sources said, although it’s unclear how much traction Philadelphia truly has on any move.

Sources said teams are inquiring about Knicks forward Kevin Knox, who has played in just four games this season and has rival executives wondering the plan for the 22-year-old in New York. Knox scored 18 points, grabbed five rebounds and made five 3-pointers in 29 minutes agains the Milwaukee Bucks on Sunday — his first extended run of the season. He was the Knicks’ No. 9 overall pick in the 2018 NBA Draft. After averaging 12.8 points and 4.5 rebounds in 75 games (57 starts) as a rookie, Knox has failed to gain traction in the organization, but could something change?

This team is please use a more appropriate word as shittu

[Jay10]

Here's my last ditch starting lineup with this group.

Rose
Randle
Noel
RJ
Fournier

Put Burks back with the second unit.

Burks
IQ
Grimes
Mitch/Obi
Obi/Knox

If this doesn't work between now and February 1, 2022, then try and deal Randle and Fournier and maybe even Noel and/or Kemba.

The starting lineup isn't going to work if it doesn't include a perimeter defender.

The only difference between last season and this season is the Knicks not having a defender in the backcourt.

And a real PG. Payton was mediocre but we at least had a PG.

Payton wasn't the point guard last season. Payton brought the ball up the court, ran to the side Julius was on and gave him the ball, and every thing went through Julius.

[Deeeez Knicks]

There surely isn't much movement. It's disappointing. Not that Thibs is known as some kind of offensive innovator, but his Bulls teams seemed to move, cut, make plays. No one would have confused them with the GSWs or Spurs, but it seemed decent, in a fundamental kind of way. But this collection, it's the same play over and over again, with very few variations. Here comes the 5 to set the pick....there's the guy standing by the 3 point line in the corner...

Thibs could do things differently, but its the players more then the coach. We just don't have the players

So, for both the limitations of the players, and that of the coach, it's back to the fault of the FO for not recognizing Thibs needs certain kinds of players on offense to get Maximum Thibs - like a better offensive C in the mix, and maybe players more inclined to cut?

I'd also think it's a bit of both, that Thibs is kind of stubborn, because Fournier seems like a guy who moves around a lot, at least that's what I recall watching him with the Magic and in Celts clips. But maybe he only does that when he's a #1 or #2 option.

Anyway, while Thibs has issues, it's mostly the players and really, the FO. I tried telling a relative who is much more into Football, when we discussing bad teams - he's in Jaguar territory - that both sports require players that have talent, but Basketball is more dependent on talent and less on coaching than Football. IMHO, Football being the sport where coaching can make a difference, while in the NBA, a good coach can have a team prepared, and the coach can certainly be a help in making a difference - preparation, defensive intensity etc, but in the NBA, most coaches don't move the needle. I think Thibs actually moves the needle in a positive way - at least on defense, but the Knicks just lack talent. Particularly of a certain kind.

I would def give most of the blame to the front office for putting this all together. We all know Thib’s strengths and weakness’s, and they have remained true. If anything he has probably even been better then advertised. Again, would love to see some things done differently. But this is Thibs and the front office brought him in.

Just taking your point on Fournier, he is a guy that likes to put the ball on the floor. He probably is up there among the league leaders in pump faking open 3’s, when he is supposed to be a shooter. That seems to be a big problem with the starters…everyone likes to put the ball on the floor so there’s less ball movement and more holding in general rather then quick passes and quick decisions. That was a big complaint prior to the season too. A lot of guys that need the ball. But even our on the ball players suck so we pretty much are left with a bad team.

Things change when the bench comes in. I don’t think coaching is different, just the mix of players. That would be my main complaint for Thibs to find a better mix and play the younger guys. But I don’t think it would make a big difference in terms of wins. Maybe just make things a little more watchable and give us some signs of hope if the younger players play well.

Yea, I would say football is different and basketball is more dependent on talent. Either way when you don’t have a good team its tough. RIght now the Knicks dont have a good enough team.