Hawks are 17-24. What's happening?

[bbalnation]

I think the Hawks are one of the more likely teams to deal with if I'm a team who HAS to trade an aging or proven or rising superstar who has asked to be traded.

They are loaded with many young talented wings in a couple positions, and have their draft picks iirc.

Its a lot more enticing for a team who will enter the rebuild (tank?) phase since their superstar wants out, to deal for young players in their early 20s on the Hawks than a 25 year old who hasn't played in months, for example.

And for the Hawks, they may have a window at a 2019 Kawhi Leonard type deal in the next 2-3 years, if they play their cards right. Its disappointing to see that the culture itself is not producing wins though, as it did on the Raptors, for example.

[Ballerhogger]

Tra dropped 40 in a loss.

[HotelVitale]

I think the Hawks are more likely the team to deal with if I'm a team who HAS to ship an aging or rising superstar who has asked to be traded (which is what certain organizations are waiting for). They are loaded with many young talented wings in a couple positions, and have their draft picks iirc. Its a lot more enticing for a team who will enter the rebuild (tank?) phase since their superstar wants out, to deal for young players in their early 20s on the Hawks than a 25 year old who hasn't played in months, for example. And for the Hawks, they may have a window at a 2019 Kawhi Leonard type deal in the next 2-3 years, if they play their cards right. Its disappointing to see that the culture itself is not producing wins though, as it did on the Raptors, for example.

The Hawks don't have expendable good young players, they have more sweetener types than key assets. Pretty much just Deandre Hunter. Huerter's fine but he's now paid accordingly, Reddish has modest value now, Johnson's a total unknown. Hunter's also 24 and has a lot to like but hasn't had a run of looking like a surefire star or anything.

Who knows what another team might want, but to my eyes it'd be a steal for them if they managed to package some of those guys into a star.

[bbalnation]

I think the Hawks are more likely the team to deal with if I'm a team who HAS to ship an aging or rising superstar who has asked to be traded (which is what certain organizations are waiting for). They are loaded with many young talented wings in a couple positions, and have their draft picks iirc. Its a lot more enticing for a team who will enter the rebuild (tank?) phase since their superstar wants out, to deal for young players in their early 20s on the Hawks than a 25 year old who hasn't played in months, for example. And for the Hawks, they may have a window at a 2019 Kawhi Leonard type deal in the next 2-3 years, if they play their cards right. Its disappointing to see that the culture itself is not producing wins though, as it did on the Raptors, for example.

The Hawks don't have expendable good young players, they have more sweetener types than key assets. Pretty much just Deandre Hunter. Huerter's fine but he's now paid accordingly, Reddish has modest value now, Johnson's a total unknown. Hunter's also 24 and has a lot to like but hasn't had a run of looking like a surefire star or anything.

Who knows what another team might want, but to my eyes it'd be a steal for them if they managed to package some of those guys into a star.

Reddish is 22, 6'8, averaging 11 on 40/36 splits (4 3 point attempts). He averaged 13 on 53/64 (3.5 3 point attempts) in the playoffs a few months ago. He returned from injury in the playoffs as a 2nd year player... and put up more than he did during the season. As an observer, that reads to me a player who is not shy in big moments. His increase from 36% in 3 point land this year from last years 26% and the year befores 33% tells me he's been working at his efficiency from three, but still has a LOT of work to do on his overall efficiency. I dont know about his defensive impact. Hes young though.

Modest value is questionable?

Then you have:

Deendre Huntre 11/2/0.5 45/40
24 years old

Kevin Huerter 11/3/2 47/40
23 years old

And the ability to package other vets on the roster with positive value for younger players and/or other team draft picks to net a superstar. For example, I think Bogdan could bring a young player on a 2-10 seed whos looking for a shooter, but has a promising young player (& another vet to make the salary situation work).

You dont need to upend the whole roster for said superstar, but there are a lot of 1 way shooters (many with potential to be two way players imo) on this roster, which is something that a lot of teams would love, and trade for. They're young players too, have size and playoff experience.

[Bobbymcgee]

Hawks should make a play for Ben Simmons. Shake things up and thin out the roster a bit.

[Tor_Raps]

Hawks should make a play for Ben Simmons. Shake things up and thin out the roster a bit.

Only problem is that I don't see Collins and Simmons as a good fit together. Simmons and Capella might also be bad with neither being able to score out of the restricted circle. What would you suggest their lineup to be?

[Godymas]

get them some real defense

Capela over achieved last year

also idk what happened to DeAndre Hunter, he was amazing last year and apparently this year he's their worst player by a huge margin. He was also their best perimeter defender last year.

Kind of surprised Onyeka Okwongwu isn't playing for the main team, but he's a solid hope for a guy that might be able to replace Capela in the next few years.

They're definitely gonna be making a move at the trade dead line, no way they play to pay Reddish and Hunter in the next off-season. Hopefully they grab some defense. What if they traded Capela for Myles Turner? It might be a sick fit actually, they'd probably have to give up some draft assets but this might be the upcoming move real soon

You don't seem to realize that Hunter is injured and OO has been rehabbing in the G League. Do you not take into account the injuries before writing up a post?

Bogdan Bogdanović is injured too. Capela is just fine but he needs his backcourt to step up and play defense. If you're Cap and guarding your own man or zone, but if the guards aren't playing defense good enough, what do you think IA going to happen to the frontcourt when they receive more pressure?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

he played 11 games and was not good in those 11 games so my point still stands in terms of what he was contributing to the Hawks this season.

Please talk to others like civilized human beings, thank you.

[Godymas]

get them some real defense

Capela over achieved last year

also idk what happened to DeAndre Hunter, he was amazing last year and apparently this year he's their worst player by a huge margin. He was also their best perimeter defender last year.

Kind of surprised Onyeka Okwongwu isn't playing for the main team, but he's a solid hope for a guy that might be able to replace Capela in the next few years.

1. Hunter had his knee scoped for the 2nd time after the Knicks playoffs series so he was returning from injury to start the season. He played in 11 games this season then injured his wrist which required surgery, so again he is out with injury for about another month.
2. Onyeka had offseason shoulder and has been out all season. He is currently assigned to the GLeague and should hopefully be cleared to make his NBA return shortly.
The Hawks need them both badly - there is a lot of defensive potential in street clothes.

ah i see, i had no idea as evidenced by "idk"

appreciate the answers

[HotelVitale]

I think the Hawks are more likely the team to deal with if I'm a team who HAS to ship an aging or rising superstar who has asked to be traded (which is what certain organizations are waiting for). They are loaded with many young talented wings in a couple positions, and have their draft picks iirc. Its a lot more enticing for a team who will enter the rebuild (tank?) phase since their superstar wants out, to deal for young players in their early 20s on the Hawks than a 25 year old who hasn't played in months, for example. And for the Hawks, they may have a window at a 2019 Kawhi Leonard type deal in the next 2-3 years, if they play their cards right. Its disappointing to see that the culture itself is not producing wins though, as it did on the Raptors, for example.

The Hawks don't have expendable good young players, they have more sweetener types than key assets. Pretty much just Deandre Hunter. Huerter's fine but he's now paid accordingly, Reddish has modest value now, Johnson's a total unknown. Hunter's also 24 and has a lot to like but hasn't had a run of looking like a surefire star or anything. Who knows what another team might want, but to my eyes it'd be a steal for them if they managed to package some of those guys into a star.

Reddish is 22, 6'8, averaging 11 on 40/36 splits (4 3 point attempts). He averaged 13 on 53/64 (3.5 3 point attempts) in the playoffs a few months ago. He returned from injury in the playoffs as a 2nd year player... and put up more than he did during the season. As an observer, that reads to me a player who is not shy in big moments. His increase from 36% in 3 point land this year from last years 26% and the year befores 33% tells me he's been working at his efficiency from three, but still has a LOT of work to do on his overall efficiency. I dont know about his defensive impact. Hes young though. Modest value is questionable?
Then you have:
Deendre Huntre 11/2/0.5 45/40 24 years old
Kevin Huerter 11/3/2 47/40 23 years old
And the ability to package other vets on the roster with positive value for younger players and/or other team draft picks to net a superstar. For example, I think Bogdan could bring a young player on a 2-10 seed whos looking for a shooter, but has a promising young player (& another vet to make the salary situation work).

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

[Scalabrine]

Is it at all possible that the East is just better this year? Can teams like the Hawks, Knicks, Celtics still be good teams but teams like the Bulls, Cavs and Hornets have all made improvements? Probably not.

[bbalnation]

The Hawks don't have expendable good young players, they have more sweetener types than key assets. Pretty much just Deandre Hunter. Huerter's fine but he's now paid accordingly, Reddish has modest value now, Johnson's a total unknown. Hunter's also 24 and has a lot to like but hasn't had a run of looking like a surefire star or anything. Who knows what another team might want, but to my eyes it'd be a steal for them if they managed to package some of those guys into a star.

Reddish is 22, 6'8, averaging 11 on 40/36 splits (4 3 point attempts). He averaged 13 on 53/64 (3.5 3 point attempts) in the playoffs a few months ago. He returned from injury in the playoffs as a 2nd year player... and put up more than he did during the season. As an observer, that reads to me a player who is not shy in big moments. His increase from 36% in 3 point land this year from last years 26% and the year befores 33% tells me he's been working at his efficiency from three, but still has a LOT of work to do on his overall efficiency. I dont know about his defensive impact. Hes young though. Modest value is questionable?
Then you have:
Deendre Huntre 11/2/0.5 45/40 24 years old
Kevin Huerter 11/3/2 47/40 23 years old
And the ability to package other vets on the roster with positive value for younger players and/or other team draft picks to net a superstar. For example, I think Bogdan could bring a young player on a 2-10 seed whos looking for a shooter, but has a promising young player (& another vet to make the salary situation work).

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

[ShootersShoot]

Reddish is 22, 6'8, averaging 11 on 40/36 splits (4 3 point attempts). He averaged 13 on 53/64 (3.5 3 point attempts) in the playoffs a few months ago. He returned from injury in the playoffs as a 2nd year player... and put up more than he did during the season. As an observer, that reads to me a player who is not shy in big moments. His increase from 36% in 3 point land this year from last years 26% and the year befores 33% tells me he's been working at his efficiency from three, but still has a LOT of work to do on his overall efficiency. I dont know about his defensive impact. Hes young though. Modest value is questionable?
Then you have:
Deendre Huntre 11/2/0.5 45/40 24 years old
Kevin Huerter 11/3/2 47/40 23 years old
And the ability to package other vets on the roster with positive value for younger players and/or other team draft picks to net a superstar. For example, I think Bogdan could bring a young player on a 2-10 seed whos looking for a shooter, but has a promising young player (& another vet to make the salary situation work).

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

Ben's the best player out of any of those three hawks wings. I value Maxey more as a player over either reddish or huerter. Also Hunter seems injury prone and I doubt he or any of the other two guys gets to ben's level of impact.

[DroseReturnChi]

Hawks should make a play for Ben Simmons. Shake things up and thin out the roster a bit.

Only problem is that I don't see Collins and Simmons as a good fit together. Simmons and Capella might also be bad with neither being able to score out of the restricted circle. What would you suggest their lineup to be?

your trading collins is this a joke?

[Sothron]

Is it at all possible that the East is just better this year? Can teams like the Hawks, Knicks, Celtics still be good teams but teams like the Bulls, Cavs and Hornets have all made improvements? Probably not.

I said before last season the East was better than the West. This year it is very noticeable how much better the East is. It isn't that some of the teams you mentioned suddenly aren't good. It is other teams like the three you mentioned that got better and are playing like it. So all 8 playoff spots in the East are going to be hard to get.

This reminds me very much of the 80's and up to mid 90's East when it was a legit dog fight just to MAKE the playoffs with how deep the East was. Personally I love it. You don't win titles by beating up bad teams.

[bbalnation]

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

Ben's the best player out of any of those three hawks wings. I value Maxey more as a player over either reddish or huerter. Also Hunter seems injury prone and I doubt he or any of the other two guys gets to ben's level of impact.

Cool. Thats your opinion.

My opinion is..

Ben is 25. Hes been in the league for 4 or 5 years now. We know what he is. For an organization that's deciding to go full rebuild and tank mode, he is NOT who I want to build around.

Maxey is an interesting player, but he may be at a disadvantage at 6'2 (its what we've seen historically, and it makes sense as to why, offensively & defensively). Im a fan either way, and im rooting for him typically because of his disadvantage: he shouldn't be written off. I doubt GMs see it that way. In any case.

If im a team in tank mode, I want to build around:

Cam Reddish (22) 6'8
Onyeka (21) 6'8
Deandre Hunter (24, drafted in 2019 as opposed to Ben who was drafted in 2016 or 2017, whichever you choose) 6'8
Kevin Huerter (23) 6'7

Id hope that one of these guys takes the next step. Because they can... thats part of what being young, 2nd and 3rd year players with rare playoff experience yields. They made it to the ECF last year and got significant play time because at one point, a teammate was injured (as are the rest of the teams come April & May).

Its also worth noting that these guys aren't locked up to long term, high paying deals (minus Huerters contract which i dislike but meh its not terrible risk & the contract itself is moveable relative to the player imo).

Low risk, medium/mid-high reward, for a team in rebuild mode. Theyll lose a lot of games, and get a 1-6 pick while developing those wings and bigs, with the hope to find a primary, secondary and/or third option within those guys (1 or 2 of those). Meanwhile, I'm not sure what type of risk you'd give trading with Philly, but let's say its medium.

Ben playing the same as he was before is hardly a reward for a rebuilding team. They want some losses, and somebody who will grow in 3-7 years. I dont really know if Ben is going to grow any more than he has... maybe he does.

Do you? If Philly fans did, I doubt they woulda wanted to ship his non shooting self for the months before, when the heckling began. Or was it 1-2 years? Shrug.

[ShootersShoot]

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

Ben's the best player out of any of those three hawks wings. I value Maxey more as a player over either reddish or huerter. Also Hunter seems injury prone and I doubt he or any of the other two guys gets to ben's level of impact.

Cool. Thats your opinion.

My opinion is..

Ben is 25. Hes been in the league for 4 or 5 years now. We know what he is. For an organization that's deciding to go full rebuild and tank mode, he is NOT who I want to build around.

Maxey is an interesting player, but he may be at a disadvantage at 6'2 (its what we've seen historically, and it makes sense as to why, offensively & defensively). Im a fan either way, and im rooting for him typically because of his disadvantage: he shouldn't be written off. I doubt GMs see it that way. In any case.

If im a team in tank mode, I want to build around:

Cam Reddish (22) 6'8
Onyeka (21) 6'8
Deandre Hunter (24, drafted in 2019 as opposed to Ben who was drafted in 2016 or 2017, whichever you choose) 6'8
Kevin Huerter (23) 6'7

Id hope that one of these guys takes the next step. Because they can... thats part of what being young, 2nd and 3rd year players with rare playoff experience yields. They made it to the ECF last year and got significant play time because at one point, a teammate was injured (as are the rest of the teams come April & May).

Its also worth noting that these guys aren't locked up to long term, high paying deals (minus Huerters contract which i dislike but meh its not terrible risk & the contract itself is moveable relative to the player imo).

Low risk, medium/mid-high reward, for a team in rebuild mode. Theyll lose a lot of games, and get a 1-6 pick while developing those wings and bigs, with the hope to find a primary, secondary and/or third option within those guys (1 or 2 of those). Meanwhile, I'm not sure what type of risk you'd give trading with Philly, but let's say its medium.

Ben playing the same as he was before is hardly a reward for a rebuilding team. They want some losses, and somebody who will grow in 3-7 years. I dont really know if Ben is going to grow any more than he has... maybe he does.

Do you? If Philly fans did, I doubt they woulda wanted to ship his non shooting self for the months before, when the heckling began. Or was it 1-2 years? Shrug.

I just dont think any of their impacts will equal or exceed ben simmons in their careers. Ben's also all of one year older than hunter and Maxey's the youngest of the group, so I do not see age as having too much of a bearing when comparing the players. I view Maxey as being the best scorer of all the players which obviously doesnt mean he is the best, but I just dont see huerter for example being a better overall player in a few years.

I could be wrong of course. I don't have an issue with someone preferring having multiple wings that can shoot and defend though. I also can see Reddish as a guy who can break out in the next two years and become a starting level player comparable to Hunter or better.

If I could pick any one player out of that group for my team, it would EASILY be simmons. Despite his glaring weaknesses he is still an all star caliber contributor. Can't say the same for any of the other guys. He also has way more playoff experience already than the other guys. If being young with playoff experience matters, then why not bring up that ben's been to the playoffs every year since he was 21 years old?

[Tor_Raps]

Hawks should make a play for Ben Simmons. Shake things up and thin out the roster a bit.

Only problem is that I don't see Collins and Simmons as a good fit together. Simmons and Capella might also be bad with neither being able to score out of the restricted circle. What would you suggest their lineup to be?

your trading collins is this a joke?

I said that Collins and Simmons don't seem like great fits together, not that I'd trade Collins for him. I don't see a good enough lineup to make Simmons look good.

[Sothron]

Where is Sothron to update me on the Hawks record? Oh they lost to the Rockets?

They are 13-14. The Rockets played out of their minds in the 4th quarter hitting lucky shot after lucky shot. Hats off to them for playing hard. Trae Young had 41 points and 9 assists on a great shooting night but the rest of the team failed to show up in the fourth quarter. The Rockets btw are on a winning streak and have beaten several good teams in it so I don't know why losing to a Rockets team that went bonkers in the 4th is somehow a shame.

Idk man I thought you were updating the thread on all the comings and goings of the Hawks regular season record

Hawks are now 14-14 after a convincing win against the Magic on the road.

[Saint Lazarus]

They are 13-14. The Rockets played out of their minds in the 4th quarter hitting lucky shot after lucky shot. Hats off to them for playing hard. Trae Young had 41 points and 9 assists on a great shooting night but the rest of the team failed to show up in the fourth quarter. The Rockets btw are on a winning streak and have beaten several good teams in it so I don't know why losing to a Rockets team that went bonkers in the 4th is somehow a shame.

Idk man I thought you were updating the thread on all the comings and goings of the Hawks regular season record

Hawks are now 14-14 after a convincing win against the Magic on the road.

Did Collins dunk on Shaq or prime Dwight?

[shakes0]

Idk man I thought you were updating the thread on all the comings and goings of the Hawks regular season record

Hawks are now 14-14 after a convincing win against the Magic on the road.

Did Collins dunk on Shaq or prime Dwight?

Wagner brothers > Shaq and prime Dwight.