The TRADE Thread 2021

[LightTheBeam]

Curious who the Spurs are planning to keep from their young group. Is there room for Murray, White, Keldon, Primo, Vassell, and Walker?

What about getting them a first and a bigger body?

Chicago out: Williams, DJJ, 1st
Chicago in: Barnes

Sac out: Barnes
Sac in: Keldon, Thad Young

Spurs out: Keldon, Thad
Spurs in: Williams, 1st

Then Kings follow up with

Boston out: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez
Boston in: Buddy Hield

Sac out: Hield
Sac in: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez

Final result -

Bigs - Holmes, Bagley, Thompson
Forwards - Keldon, Thad, Richardson, Nesmith
Guards - Fox, Hali, Mitchell, Davis

[kb02]

Curious who the Spurs are planning to keep from their young group. Is there room for Murray, White, Keldon, Primo, Vassell, and Walker?

What about getting them a first and a bigger body?

Chicago out: Williams, DJJ, 1st
Chicago in: Barnes

Sac out: Barnes
Sac in: Keldon, Thad Young

Spurs out: Keldon, Thad
Spurs in: Williams, 1st

Then Kings follow up with

Boston out: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez
Boston in: Buddy Hield

Sac out: Hield
Sac in: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez

Final result -

Bigs - Holmes, Bagley, Thompson
Forwards - Keldon, Thad, Richardson, Nesmith
Guards - Fox, Hali, Mitchell, Davis

All those trades, but you leave Fox out once again. Dude needs to go.

[BoogieTime]

Curious who the Spurs are planning to keep from their young group. Is there room for Murray, White, Keldon, Primo, Vassell, and Walker?

What about getting them a first and a bigger body?

Chicago out: Williams, DJJ, 1st
Chicago in: Barnes

Sac out: Barnes
Sac in: Keldon, Thad Young

Spurs out: Keldon, Thad
Spurs in: Williams, 1st

Then Kings follow up with

Boston out: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez
Boston in: Buddy Hield

Sac out: Hield
Sac in: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez

Final result -

Bigs - Holmes, Bagley, Thompson
Forwards - Keldon, Thad, Richardson, Nesmith
Guards - Fox, Hali, Mitchell, Davis

All those trades, but you leave Fox out once again. Dude needs to go.

While that would personally be my preference just because he annoys me, I'm not sure the FO is going to have the stones to move him for low value. His value, even with his offensive improvement, isnt anywhere near the Sabonis/Simmons/Brown level IMO. Its not even Siakam IMO. IMO you are getting expirings and not strong value, or looking at other struggling players like Julius Randle, as of tonight (who knows how his season will play out).

As I detailed, IMO I still think its moving him for low value or tanking with him, as of tonight.

I think in a few years he can bulk up and possible play a scoring role on the wing where his defense is hidden, while obviously not impacting winning at all in the next year or two for the tank. I'm not sure a trade will get us a higher talent (I think his value will get us middling picks or an equally onerous vet).

The vets need to be gone first, and the reason they are still on this team is an indictment on the FO. Someone, be it FO or ownership is misdirecting this team, competing instead of tanking

[LightTheBeam]

Curious who the Spurs are planning to keep from their young group. Is there room for Murray, White, Keldon, Primo, Vassell, and Walker?

What about getting them a first and a bigger body?

Chicago out: Williams, DJJ, 1st
Chicago in: Barnes

Sac out: Barnes
Sac in: Keldon, Thad Young

Spurs out: Keldon, Thad
Spurs in: Williams, 1st

Then Kings follow up with

Boston out: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez
Boston in: Buddy Hield

Sac out: Hield
Sac in: Richardson, Nesmith, Hernangomez

Final result -

Bigs - Holmes, Bagley, Thompson
Forwards - Keldon, Thad, Richardson, Nesmith
Guards - Fox, Hali, Mitchell, Davis

All those trades, but you leave Fox out once again. Dude needs to go.

Yes, I'm not interested in trading our best player until we see some talent around him. Not a tough concept. Or we could blame him for not being Lebron and carrying a bad roster to over .500

Its hilarious some on this board think that swapping Fox for a mentally weak, non shooting, 14ppg guy is going to suddenly turn this team around

The issue starts with Vivek, then was Walton and the lack of talent.

[jeffjtk1234]

Trade them all. Fox isn’t the leader this team needs.


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[Larry_Russell]

Would a deal of
Horford, Nemsith, Juancho (exp)
for
Buddy, Bagley and Woodard

Does that make sense?
Does Boston need to add more? Do the pieces actually work?

Are you really looking to get off of fox?

[kalenclayton]

Would a deal of
Horford, Nemsith, Juancho (exp)
for
Buddy, Bagley and Woodard

Does that make sense?
Does Boston need to add more? Do the pieces actually work?

Are you really looking to get off of fox?

If I’m running the team, this move looks great. Horford becomes an asset to the Kings the moment this trade becomes official. He brings size, professionalism, defense, and lite-floor-stretching to a team that lacks all of that. He’s not a long term solution, but he’s a better fit than Buddy. Nesmith is an ok prospect and the hope is that he can fit in with the core. I bet Juancho convinces the Kings to re-sign him for more than any team would offer because Kangz. I’m not so sure the Kings actually do this deal, but I would.

I like this deal for the Celtics. I think Buddy fits in very well with Tatum, Brown, and Smart.

[Larry_Russell]

Would a deal of
Horford, Nemsith, Juancho (exp)
for
Buddy, Bagley and Woodard

Does that make sense?
Does Boston need to add more? Do the pieces actually work?

Are you really looking to get off of fox?

If I’m running the team, this move looks great. Horford becomes an asset to the Kings the moment this trade becomes official. He brings size, professionalism, defense, and lite-floor-stretching to a team that lacks all of that. He’s not a long term solution, but he’s a better fit than Buddy. Nesmith is an ok prospect and the hope is that he can fit in with the core. I bet Juancho convinces the Kings to re-sign him for more than any team would offer because Kangz. I’m not so sure the Kings actually do this deal, but I would.

I like this deal for the Celtics. I think Buddy fits in very well with Tatum, Brown, and Smart.

I personally also like woodard alot. Think he can be a real solid player.

[sacking123]

With the news Atlanta wants a 1st for Reddish I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes traded somewhere for a 1st and see if we can move that on to the Hawks while keeping our first.

I think we will see some teams sell nearing the deadline and switch gears. I'm not sure how far off this retool.

Barnes For Kemba (after Dec 15)/Knox/23 Dallas 1st/23 Detroit 2nd, 3m in cash
Why: Get the 1st that will be dealt after. Kemba is there for depth at the 1 for later in the season, ideally he would be there as 3rd PG. Try Knox and see if a change of scenery can do something. If Kemba shows something deal him in the off season, if not, buyout where the 3m in cash comes into and saves the Kings a lot money next season.
The Knicks need all the help they can get at the moment. Barnes would fit in well with Thibs and play his role while they don't give up anything from their rotation to make a push back into POs.

Davis/23 Dallas 1st For Reddish
Why: Get Reddish. Young wing with lots of upside. Sac could sign him to long term deal if he shows something, but it would be paying on potential, but who else needs to be paid or who else are the Kings getting? Hawks get their 1st rounder albeit next years which should help as it will furth offset costs of contracts.

Hali/Buddy/22 1st unprotected For Brown
Why: Get the #1 scorer that the Kings have been looking for. For the Celtics they move in another direction with Tatum being young enough and Hali. The pick could be anything as the Kings could be anything themselves. Might be a 1st light?

Sac Trades: Davion/Bagley/24 1st Lottery protected/23 1st swap/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)
Sac Receives: Myles Turner
Why: Gets a defensive big man that they could give a larger role than 9 shots per game on the offensive end. Turner wants out or a bigger role, don't see him getting the latter with the Pacers. Can start with Holmes or take over the 5.

Hou Trades: Wood
Hou Receives: Davion/Bagley/24 Sac 1st Lottery protected (protected 1-14 in 24, 1-10 in 25, 1-8 in 26, 2 x 2nds if not conveyed).
Get a young PG to develop with the young guys, giving them Green, Sengun, Mitchell, Porter Jr and the other young guys is just adding to the great start of talent while also adding a 1st.

Ind Trade: Turner
Ind Receives: Wood/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)/23 1st swap W/Sac
Pacers try and keep the play in alive by getting someone that will contribute right away in Wood and get some potential with the 2nd and a pick swap.

Sac Trades: Thompson/23 Det 2nd
SA Trades: Thad Young
Why: Get Thad as another do it all big man that can work in with Turner in particular. SA do this for the 2nd if they believe the play in is looking unlikely in another month and they don't get an offer for a 1st.

It's a thin squad on the perimeter and would certainly need to find a couple of guards that can handle rotation minutes, but they are the easiest to find. Might also give Ramsey & King an opportunity to force into the rotation next season. I know it will be controversial with some decent young talent moving out. This way the Kings aren't building around Fox, but they're putting better fitting pieces around him. Ideally Turner would eventually become the 5 if the Kings can find a stretch 4 for Holmes which would open up space for Fox/Brown.

Fox/Kemba
Brown/Ramsey/King
Reddish/Craig/Knox/Woodard
Turner/Young/Metu
Holmes/Len/Jones

[LightTheBeam]

With the news Atlanta wants a 1st for Reddish I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes traded somewhere for a 1st and see if we can move that on to the Hawks while keeping our first.

I think we will see some teams sell nearing the deadline and switch gears. I'm not sure how far off this retool.

Barnes For Kemba (after Dec 15)/Knox/23 Dallas 1st/23 Detroit 2nd, 3m in cash
Why: Get the 1st that will be dealt after. Kemba is there for depth at the 1 for later in the season, ideally he would be there as 3rd PG. Try Knox and see if a change of scenery can do something. If Kemba shows something deal him in the off season, if not, buyout where the 3m in cash comes into and saves the Kings a lot money next season.
The Knicks need all the help they can get at the moment. Barnes would fit in well with Thibs and play his role while they don't give up anything from their rotation to make a push back into POs.

Davis/23 Dallas 1st For Reddish
Why: Get Reddish. Young wing with lots of upside. Sac could sign him to long term deal if he shows something, but it would be paying on potential, but who else needs to be paid or who else are the Kings getting? Hawks get their 1st rounder albeit next years which should help as it will furth offset costs of contracts.

Hali/Buddy/22 1st unprotected For Brown
Why: Get the #1 scorer that the Kings have been looking for. For the Celtics they move in another direction with Tatum being young enough and Hali. The pick could be anything as the Kings could be anything themselves. Might be a 1st light?

Sac Trades: Davion/Bagley/24 1st Lottery protected/23 1st swap/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)
Sac Receives: Myles Turner
Why: Gets a defensive big man that they could give a larger role than 9 shots per game on the offensive end. Turner wants out or a bigger role, don't see him getting the latter with the Pacers. Can start with Holmes or take over the 5.

Hou Trades: Wood
Hou Receives: Davion/Bagley/24 Sac 1st Lottery protected (protected 1-14 in 24, 1-10 in 25, 1-8 in 26, 2 x 2nds if not conveyed).
Get a young PG to develop with the young guys, giving them Green, Sengun, Mitchell, Porter Jr and the other young guys is just adding to the great start of talent while also adding a 1st.

Ind Trade: Turner
Ind Receives: Wood/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)/23 1st swap W/Sac
Pacers try and keep the play in alive by getting someone that will contribute right away in Wood and get some potential with the 2nd and a pick swap.

Sac Trades: Thompson/23 Det 2nd
SA Trades: Thad Young
Why: Get Thad as another do it all big man that can work in with Turner in particular. SA do this for the 2nd if they believe the play in is looking unlikely in another month and they don't get an offer for a 1st.

It's a thin squad on the perimeter and would certainly need to find a couple of guards that can handle rotation minutes, but they are the easiest to find. Might also give Ramsey & King an opportunity to force into the rotation next season. I know it will be controversial with some decent young talent moving out. This way the Kings aren't building around Fox, but they're putting better fitting pieces around him. Ideally Turner would eventually become the 5 if the Kings can find a stretch 4 for Holmes which would open up space for Fox/Brown.

Fox/Kemba
Brown/Ramsey/King
Reddish/Craig/Knox/Woodard
Turner/Young/Metu
Holmes/Len/Jones

Aside from the fact that there is no way the team will make that many trades lol, I like it. I'm a big haliburton fan, but reality is that he projects to be a 4th/5th guy on a good team. PG who can shoot the 3 and pass the ball, but isn't elite, can't get his own bucket and isn't a good man defender. If we could get brown for him and a 1st I'd do that in a heart beat.

Brown is the kind of player we need next to fox imo.

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[sacking123]

With the news Atlanta wants a 1st for Reddish I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes traded somewhere for a 1st and see if we can move that on to the Hawks while keeping our first.

I think we will see some teams sell nearing the deadline and switch gears. I'm not sure how far off this retool.

Barnes For Kemba (after Dec 15)/Knox/23 Dallas 1st/23 Detroit 2nd, 3m in cash
Why: Get the 1st that will be dealt after. Kemba is there for depth at the 1 for later in the season, ideally he would be there as 3rd PG. Try Knox and see if a change of scenery can do something. If Kemba shows something deal him in the off season, if not, buyout where the 3m in cash comes into and saves the Kings a lot money next season.
The Knicks need all the help they can get at the moment. Barnes would fit in well with Thibs and play his role while they don't give up anything from their rotation to make a push back into POs.

Davis/23 Dallas 1st For Reddish
Why: Get Reddish. Young wing with lots of upside. Sac could sign him to long term deal if he shows something, but it would be paying on potential, but who else needs to be paid or who else are the Kings getting? Hawks get their 1st rounder albeit next years which should help as it will furth offset costs of contracts.

Hali/Buddy/22 1st unprotected For Brown
Why: Get the #1 scorer that the Kings have been looking for. For the Celtics they move in another direction with Tatum being young enough and Hali. The pick could be anything as the Kings could be anything themselves. Might be a 1st light?

Sac Trades: Davion/Bagley/24 1st Lottery protected/23 1st swap/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)
Sac Receives: Myles Turner
Why: Gets a defensive big man that they could give a larger role than 9 shots per game on the offensive end. Turner wants out or a bigger role, don't see him getting the latter with the Pacers. Can start with Holmes or take over the 5.

Hou Trades: Wood
Hou Receives: Davion/Bagley/24 Sac 1st Lottery protected (protected 1-14 in 24, 1-10 in 25, 1-8 in 26, 2 x 2nds if not conveyed).
Get a young PG to develop with the young guys, giving them Green, Sengun, Mitchell, Porter Jr and the other young guys is just adding to the great start of talent while also adding a 1st.

Ind Trade: Turner
Ind Receives: Wood/2022 second round draft pick Sacramento, Chicago or Detroit (2nd most favorable)/23 1st swap W/Sac
Pacers try and keep the play in alive by getting someone that will contribute right away in Wood and get some potential with the 2nd and a pick swap.

Sac Trades: Thompson/23 Det 2nd
SA Trades: Thad Young
Why: Get Thad as another do it all big man that can work in with Turner in particular. SA do this for the 2nd if they believe the play in is looking unlikely in another month and they don't get an offer for a 1st.

It's a thin squad on the perimeter and would certainly need to find a couple of guards that can handle rotation minutes, but they are the easiest to find. Might also give Ramsey & King an opportunity to force into the rotation next season. I know it will be controversial with some decent young talent moving out. This way the Kings aren't building around Fox, but they're putting better fitting pieces around him. Ideally Turner would eventually become the 5 if the Kings can find a stretch 4 for Holmes which would open up space for Fox/Brown.

Fox/Kemba
Brown/Ramsey/King
Reddish/Craig/Knox/Woodard
Turner/Young/Metu
Holmes/Len/Jones

Aside from the fact that there is no way the team will make that many trades lol, I like it. I'm a big haliburton fan, but reality is that he projects to be a 4th/5th guy on a good team. PG who can shoot the 3 and pass the ball, but isn't elite, can't get his own bucket and isn't a good man defender. If we could get brown for him and a 1st I'd do that in a heart beat.

Brown is the kind of player we need next to fox imo.

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Oh yeah definitely too large to do all at once. Maybe Monte will let it flow after he gets the first deal out of the way lol.
I think they could be split up, something like the first 2 trades soon. The Brown and multi-team trade right near the deadline and then the Thad one at the last minute if SA doesn't get a better draft pick.

I think we all agree the team needs change and I really don't think the 3 PGs can co-exist. They all want to run the team and it just won't work.
I think we're a little light on a couple of these so it would be lucky, but Brown would be my first target and then Turner. The trio of Fox/Brown/Turner could end up being really good and Reddish is the wildcard. I think the team that gets him and signs him to a long extension (within reason $ wise) is going to get a chance to build a title team with a #2-#4 that is getting paid well below market.
The hard thing is with all this, trading in and out guys without knowing who the head coach is going to be. Not that it's a huge deal, it's just not ideal. Perhaps Monte would have a decent idea on who his target would be though.

[LightTheBeam]

Oh yeah definitely too large to do all at once. Maybe Monte will let it flow after he gets the first deal out of the way lol.
I think they could be split up, something like the first 2 trades soon. The Brown and multi-team trade right near the deadline and then the Thad one at the last minute if SA doesn't get a better draft pick.

I think we all agree the team needs change and I really don't think the 3 PGs can co-exist. They all want to run the team and it just won't work.
I think we're a little light on a couple of these so it would be lucky, but Brown would be my first target and then Turner. The trio of Fox/Brown/Turner could end up being really good and Reddish is the wildcard. I think the team that gets him and signs him to a long extension (within reason $ wise) is going to get a chance to build a title team with a #2-#4 that is getting paid well below market.
The hard thing is with all this, trading in and out guys without knowing who the head coach is going to be. Not that it's a huge deal, it's just not ideal. Perhaps Monte would have a decent idea on who his target would be though.

I like Reddish as well, definitely a wild card type who needs more opportunity to grow.

Bulls fans on the trade board seem torn on a package around Williams + 1st + salary for Barnes.

If we would pull something like that off, then use that 1st to get Reddish Id be super happy. Probably more realistic is calling Phx and getting Johnson + 1st + salary, then flipping that 1st for Reddish.

I'm going to keep my expectations very low, but I'm really hoping that Barnes/Buddy are moved, and we get some young forwards who can run with the team and play defense.

[rpa]

Just to play devil's advocate here...

What makes you all think that the Kings can become a good team by going out and swapping some assets for a fringe starting wing? Or, better yet, what makes you believe that the Kings have the coaching and organizational culture in place to make multiple major trades and not have the team melt down in abject failure? Only now they'd have less future assets to build if/when they resolve the core issues.


This team needs to tear things down and lose. Maybe not down to the core player-wise. But a large chunk of the organization leadership needs to be sent packing (looking at you Dumars) and the entire longterm coaching staff needs to be gone (yes, you Gentry). Then we can start talking about moving on from some of the vets on this team that are too far ingrained to be fixed.

Tear it down, give McNair a chance to build it up and go from there. Every single other alternative is going to end in disaster.

[LightTheBeam]

Just to play devil's advocate here...

What makes you all think that the Kings can become a good team by going out and swapping some assets for a fringe starting wing? Or, better yet, what makes you believe that the Kings have the coaching and organizational culture in place to make multiple major trades and not have the team melt down in abject failure? Only now they'd have less future assets to build if/when they resolve the core issues.

This team needs to tear things down and lose. Maybe not down to the core player-wise. But a large chunk of the organization leadership needs to be sent packing (looking at you Dumars) and the entire longterm coaching staff needs to be gone (yes, you Gentry). Then we can start talking about moving on from some of the vets on this team that are too far ingrained to be fixed.

Tear it down, give McNair a chance to build it up and go from there. Every single other alternative is going to end in disaster.

The issue starts with Vivek. But unfortunately nobody can fire him so we are kind of stuck.

Vivek is an issue
Walton and overall coaching is an issue
Talent is an issue (but can be fixed)

I don't think a major tear down does anything really positive. We have been going through this cycle for years and years. Our problem is we jump the gun every damn time. Move the older guys who we don't need (Buddy, Barnes, Tristan) and taking a shot with some younger guys who hopefully take a step forward with more opportunity.

Barnes seems checked out, id prefer to move him to a contender where he can feel rejuvenated. And do it now while he still has any minimal value. Buddy hasn't given effort in 2 years. Hes a great shooter, but you can tell he doesn't want to be here. Tristan has actually been fine, he plays with heart. But id rather give his minutes to Jones and see if we can develop a backup big there.

The time to trade assets for a forward upgrade has passed. (Unless its a meaningful cornerstone. Jaylen Brown type)

[sacking123]

Just to play devil's advocate here...

What makes you all think that the Kings can become a good team by going out and swapping some assets for a fringe starting wing? Or, better yet, what makes you believe that the Kings have the coaching and organizational culture in place to make multiple major trades and not have the team melt down in abject failure? Only now they'd have less future assets to build if/when they resolve the core issues.


This team needs to tear things down and lose. Maybe not down to the core player-wise. But a large chunk of the organization leadership needs to be sent packing (looking at you Dumars) and the entire longterm coaching staff needs to be gone (yes, you Gentry). Then we can start talking about moving on from some of the vets on this team that are too far ingrained to be fixed.

Tear it down, give McNair a chance to build it up and go from there. Every single other alternative is going to end in disaster.

While I agree with many of your points, particularly around the organization leadership and coaching staff these are areas where we as fans don't put hypotheticals out there, typically.
This is the trade thread so trades are what will be discussed, but yes there is no guarantee a completely new group will succeed.

If we want to have a discussion on organizational issues, let's have it.
I think people within the Kings' family, both internally and externally need to be more specific with what is and has gone wrong. If the current ownership group had ANY sort of self awareness, pride or goal to become a successful organization they would put in place an IMMEDIATE, independent and an all inclusive review of every area of the Sacramento Kings and any subsidiaries, including ownership. This review would need to be delivered with recommendations for positions (both roles and personnel - obviously not personnel within ownership) with comparison to a similar organisation that is considered a well run organisation. Think the San Antonio Spurs. This would need to be completed prior to the 2021-22 season concludes. That would put a halt on any possible trading for this season.

There can't be any more of, well the Kings just aren't a good organization because of Vivek.
Why EXACTLY has this Kings organization been a disaster across two different owners, multiple GMs and operations staff, multiple coaching staffs and multiple core playing groups?
Why is Vivek a problem? We know some things from earlier on, but is it still happening and everyone just points at the earlier stuff? Like, let's say, Monte wanted to fire Walton and the ownership didn't allow him. Was this Vivek? Or was it the minority owners?
Are the Kings a poor organization because they don't have extra luxuries for players/staff? The Kings have a state of the art stadium and can't capitalize on it.

The one thing a performance review will do is allow the organization to clean house and more importantly give the ownership group a wake up call, and an idea of how successful organisations are run.

I guess what I am saying is, yes I agree overall haha. Sorry for the rant.

[rpa]

If the current ownership group had ANY sort of self awareness, pride or goal to become a successful organization they would put in place an IMMEDIATE, independent and an all inclusive review of every area of the Sacramento Kings and any subsidiaries, including ownership. This review would need to be delivered with recommendations for positions (both roles and personnel - obviously not personnel within ownership) with comparison to a similar organisation that is considered a well run organisation. Think the San Antonio Spurs. This would need to be completed prior to the 2021-22 season concludes. That would put a halt on any possible trading for this season.

I don't think that'd ever happen for a variety of reasons.

First and foremost because the powers that be would have absolutely zero idea what would come out of that (recommendations wise). It's like the old saying "don't ask a question that you don't already know the answer to"

Second, said review would look like a hit job on the current power structure and you can be sure that anyone in a leadership position (McNair, Dumars, et al) would do the absolute minimum to help it--rightly or wrongly, but mostly because they don't know it's bent and it's (likely) nothing but downside.

There can't be any more of, well the Kings just aren't a good organization because of Vivek.
Why EXACTLY has this Kings organization been a disaster across two different owners, multiple GMs and operations staff, multiple coaching staffs and multiple core playing groups?

2+2=4; 3+1=4.

You can arrive at the same result from different inputs. The same result doesn't make the inputs the same.

That said, at the core there are a lot of similarities in the failures.

The Maloof-led Kings failed due to (IMO) 2 reasons:
1) The Maloof family businesses started to fail (as nearly all family businesses do once the patriarch/matriarch hands it down to their kids) and not only could they not properly invest into the Kings--team or organization--but they had to look to it to generate income to prop up their other failures. Thus led to a focus on short term profits (see eg: pushing Evans for a short term bump instead of developing him)
2) Some bad moves by Petrie. For example: drafting Thomas Robinson over Dame because he was worried about the impending free agency of Jason Thompson (and likely the inability of the Maloofs to spend in free agency). He definitely made some bad picks, but no organization here is perfect. Hell, just look at the Spurs' draft record over the last decade. They aren't pitching a perfect game--or even a shutout.

The Vivek-led Kings have failed due to a single reason that's led to everything else: an all out pursuit of mediocrity that they can call success. That's what caused Vlade to blow $50m in FA money on a bunch of useless vets. It's what caused him to trade away draft capital to make more cap space (though it was his own incompetency that caused him to not know about stretching a contract to get nearly the same amount of space). It's what's kept us from trading vets and rebuilding for years too long.

What's exacerbated the above has been a cavalcade of unrelated bad moves: Bagley over Doncic, drafting Justin Johnson and Giles, firing Malone, firing Joeger, etc

So for the Vivek-led Kings it's that they have an organizational goal that caps their ceiling at mediocrity, but that yearning for mediocrity creates a feedback loop in that it attracts leaders who are too incompetent to even reach that (see: Vlade).


Which is why I keep coming back to a full rebuild. A full rebuild, in and of itself, doesn't solve the Kings' problems. What it does, however, that's far more important, is that it signals a change of direction for the organization that (IMO) is the core reason that they're so bad. That is: if they embrace a tear down it means they're no longer striving for mediocrity. It means they can bring competent leaders because those leaders know they won't be hampered by short term thinking and fired at the first instance of not hitting unrealistic goals.

[sacking123]

If the current ownership group had ANY sort of self awareness, pride or goal to become a successful organization they would put in place an IMMEDIATE, independent and an all inclusive review of every area of the Sacramento Kings and any subsidiaries, including ownership. This review would need to be delivered with recommendations for positions (both roles and personnel - obviously not personnel within ownership) with comparison to a similar organisation that is considered a well run organisation. Think the San Antonio Spurs. This would need to be completed prior to the 2021-22 season concludes. That would put a halt on any possible trading for this season.

I don't think that'd ever happen for a variety of reasons.

First and foremost because the powers that be would have absolutely zero idea what would come out of that (recommendations wise). It's like the old saying "don't ask a question that you don't already know the answer to"

Second, said review would look like a hit job on the current power structure and you can be sure that anyone in a leadership position (McNair, Dumars, et al) would do the absolute minimum to help it--rightly or wrongly, but mostly because they don't know it's bent and it's (likely) nothing but downside.

There can't be any more of, well the Kings just aren't a good organization because of Vivek.
Why EXACTLY has this Kings organization been a disaster across two different owners, multiple GMs and operations staff, multiple coaching staffs and multiple core playing groups?

2+2=4; 3+1=4.

You can arrive at the same result from different inputs. The same result doesn't make the inputs the same.

That said, at the core there are a lot of similarities in the failures.

The Maloof-led Kings failed due to (IMO) 2 reasons:
1) The Maloof family businesses started to fail (as nearly all family businesses do once the patriarch/matriarch hands it down to their kids) and not only could they not properly invest into the Kings--team or organization--but they had to look to it to generate income to prop up their other failures. Thus led to a focus on short term profits (see eg: pushing Evans for a short term bump instead of developing him)
2) Some bad moves by Petrie. For example: drafting Thomas Robinson over Dame because he was worried about the impending free agency of Jason Thompson (and likely the inability of the Maloofs to spend in free agency). He definitely made some bad picks, but no organization here is perfect. Hell, just look at the Spurs' draft record over the last decade. They aren't pitching a perfect game--or even a shutout.

The Vivek-led Kings have failed due to a single reason that's led to everything else: an all out pursuit of mediocrity that they can call success. That's what caused Vlade to blow $50m in FA money on a bunch of useless vets. It's what caused him to trade away draft capital to make more cap space (though it was his own incompetency that caused him to not know about stretching a contract to get nearly the same amount of space). It's what's kept us from trading vets and rebuilding for years too long.

What's exacerbated the above has been a cavalcade of unrelated bad moves: Bagley over Doncic, drafting Justin Johnson and Giles, firing Malone, firing Joeger, etc

So for the Vivek-led Kings it's that they have an organizational goal that caps their ceiling at mediocrity, but that yearning for mediocrity creates a feedback loop in that it attracts leaders who are too incompetent to even reach that (see: Vlade).


Which is why I keep coming back to a full rebuild. A full rebuild, in and of itself, doesn't solve the Kings' problems. What it does, however, that's far more important, is that it signals a change of direction for the organization that (IMO) is the core reason that they're so bad. That is: if they embrace a tear down it means they're no longer striving for mediocrity. It means they can bring competent leaders because those leaders know they won't be hampered by short term thinking and fired at the first instance of not hitting unrealistic goals.

A review would be championed by the ownership group. I believe the minority owners should be demanding of this. I'm also of the opinion all organizations should have independent reviews of themselves occasionally regardless of success.
Any employee that doesn't want to co-operate with said review wouldn't have a job so it would be in their best interests to do so. Also, it's not necessarily to just cut bait with everyone, some of the recommendations would also include keeping them on, but they need education/improvement in a certain area. It might also be splitting duties, consolidating two areas into one, etc. The goal is to find out why this organization has been a laughing stock for 16 years.
Having said that, the NBA is perhaps the biggest group of individuals that would throw the next person under the bus any chance they got to further their own career. A review would take that into consideration too though. I get your point as well and it's certainly a valid one.

I completely agree with your point about ownership. I think the main problem lies with who Vivek is lending his ear to. First, it was Mullin and now Dumars. They just keep telling him what he wants to hear and then blame someone else. This is where I put it on the other owners to put pressure on. Vivek is the majority owner, but it doesn't mean he isn't accountable to the other owners in some capacity.
At the end of it all too, the one thing that would force ownership into change is kings fans tuning out, which is happening at the moment and could become a lot worse, to the point a trade won't bring them back.

[zimpy27]

How do you guys like this:

Kings get Simmons+Harris+Curry
Curry, Hali, Simmons, harris, Holmes -- Davion, TD2, Harkless, Len

76ers get Fox+Hield+Barnes
Fox, Hield, Green, Barnes, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

[Tomjas]

How do you guys like this:

Kings get Simmons+Harris+Curry
Curry, Hali, Simmons, harris, Holmes -- Davion, TD2, Harkless, Len

76ers get Fox+Hield+Barnes
Fox, Hield, Green, Barnes, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

That’s a massive overpay by the Sixers as they’re trading 60% of the starters on a #1 seed for some guys that can’t sniff .500

[zimpy27]

How do you guys like this:

Kings get Simmons+Harris+Curry
Curry, Hali, Simmons, harris, Holmes -- Davion, TD2, Harkless, Len

76ers get Fox+Hield+Barnes
Fox, Hield, Green, Barnes, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

That’s a massive overpay by the Sixers as they’re trading 60% of the starters on a #1 seed for some guys that can’t sniff .500

Embiid is the reason for the 1 seed and you know it