The Official Franz Wagner Thread

MagicFan101 · Post #781 » by **MagicFan101** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:47 pm

The pre-season narrative was that Orlando had drafted their Star and a very good defensive role player.

What if it turns out that is exactly what we did?

… we just drafted them in the wrong order??

Furinkazan · Post #782 » by **Furinkazan** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:10 pm

I admit an early defeat.I was wrong hands down.
But at the same time probably nobody expected him to be better than Suggs while I said Buknight would be better.oh boy….So I’m eating a crow But I like it.

IMHO Franz is our best player so far this season.
No not Cole.Cole is just least shy.Franz is a real deal.I’d hand him the keys and run away before they try to fit him back into a role player.

IllMagic04 · Post #783 » by **IllMagic04** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:29 pm

Furinkazan wrote:I admit an early defeat.I was wrong hands down.
But at the same time probably nobody expected him to be better than Suggs while I said Buknight would be better.oh boy….So I’m eating a crow But I like it.

IMHO Franz is our best player so far this season.
No not Cole.Cole is just least shy.Franz is a real deal.I’d hand him the keys and run away before they try to fit him back into a role player.

Yea I was a Bouknight fan too. For the record I still think he's gonna be good. He just hasn't gotten many chances to play but he scored 24 off the bench last game they played. That said Ive also bent the knee for Franz. He just does so many things well. Im at a loss on how I got this so wrong.

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basketballRob · Post #784 » by **basketballRob** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pm

Just curious how Franz measured up Tatum.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=tatumja01&p1yrfrom=2019&player_id2=wagnefr01&p2yrfrom=2022

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KillMonger · Post #785 » by **KillMonger** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:36 pm

Watch on YouTube

RookieStar · Post #786 » by **RookieStar** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:58 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
LDNMagic90 wrote:
I was going to say I feel like people compare a player based on their race. He has similarities I guess to Hedo in his play style but George is a much better comp in my opinion.

I at first thought of him as AK47... but as I said I was thinkibg more of LAC Odom especially with his offensive prowess and willingness to habdle the ball.

Odom is very nice comb. Hopefully no Kardashians and and no crack

Yeah.. I don't really get with that race-based thingy. I only compared him to AK47 at first because Franz coming in had that defensive reputation in college which AK47 is known for. Then they are both in that 6'9-6'10 range where they can't really be called a SF or a PF.

Then when Franz started scoring, doing playmaking and handling the ball.... well that was what Odom was doing with Qrich, Darius Miles, and the other knuckle... I mean Clippers lol

RookieStar · Post #787 » by **RookieStar** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:01 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:The pre-season narrative was that Orlando had drafted their Star and a very good defensive role player.

What if it turns out that is exactly what we did?

… we just drafted them in the wrong order??

Well before the draft, I always said our 8th pick would probably be a better rookie than our 5th pick.

That was when I/we thought we were getting a Kuminga/Barnes at 5 and a Bouknight/Moody at 8.

Player names changed but prediction is trending to be accurate. lol

MagicFan101 · Post #788 » by **MagicFan101** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:53 pm

RookieStar wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:The pre-season narrative was that Orlando had drafted their Star and a very good defensive role player.

What if it turns out that is exactly what we did?

… we just drafted them in the wrong order??

Well before the draft, I always said our 8th pick would probably be a better rookie than our 5th pick.

That was when I/we thought we were getting a Kuminga/Barnes at 5 and a Bouknight/Moody at 8.

Player names changed but prediction is trending to be accurate. lol

Today, Kuminga + Bouk would be looking pretty bad.

Barnes + Giddey / Mitchell / Duarte could have been special.

So it’s all a crap shoot …. As we know very well.

basketballRob · Post #789 » by **basketballRob** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:35 pm

Read on Twitter

?t=KoFxchgxeOKvQsOGPdLUzQ&s=19

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Horcy · Post #790 » by **Horcy** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:53 pm

Probably the most interesting written article about Franz so far.

Franz Wagner looks like a star in the making
Only the sky appears to be the limit for Orlando’s high-flying young forward

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/platform/amp/2021/12/14/22833316/orlando-magic-franz-wagner

tooler · Post #791 » by **tooler** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:12 am

That’s right, on 230 total drives this season Franz has lost the ball just six times! There’s basically nothing safer the Magic could do on a given possession than asking Wagner to drive into the lane.

I thought that one was funny.

It's interesting that he's rated more poorly when defending isos, given that he usually looks so good, although sometimes it looks like he guesses a bit too much and when he guesses wrong the opponent has an easy drive that he doesn't really contest.

drsd · Post #792 » by **drsd** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:19 am

Horcy wrote:Probably the most interesting written article about Franz so far.

Franz Wagner looks like a star in the making
Only the sky appears to be the limit for Orlando’s high-flying young forward

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/platform/amp/2021/12/14/22833316/orlando-magic-franz-wagner

I agree with that article that, objectively, F-Wagner is playing like a rotational vet starter. But given that he is doing that as a rookie, that is fairly amazing!

After all, at #8, a team is usually drafting for a rotational back-up. Already, even if F-Wagner is always the player he has been these last 28-games, he looks to be a draft success story.

..

Horcy · Post #793 » by **Horcy** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:09 pm

Horcy wrote:
drsd wrote:

After all, at #8, a team is usually drafting for a rotational back-up. Already, even if F-Wagner is always the player he has been these last 28-games, he looks to be a draft success story.

..

Can't agree more!

tiderulz · Post #794 » by **tiderulz** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:27 pm

drsd wrote:
Horcy wrote:Probably the most interesting written article about Franz so far.

Franz Wagner looks like a star in the making
Only the sky appears to be the limit for Orlando’s high-flying young forward

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/platform/amp/2021/12/14/22833316/orlando-magic-franz-wagner

I agree with that article that, objectively, F-Wagner is playing like a rotational vet starter. But given that he is doing that as a rookie, that is fairly amazing!

After all, at #8, a team is usually drafting for a rotational back-up. Already, even if F-Wagner is always the player he has been these last 28-games, he looks to be a draft success story.

..

sorry, i disagree. I think anyone drafting in the top-10 is expecting a starter. agree he is playing great and outplaying expectations though

drsd · Post #795 » by **drsd** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:29 pm

tiderulz wrote:sorry, i disagree. I think anyone drafting in the top-10 is expecting a starter. agree he is playing great and outplaying expectations though

Fans might "expect" a starter at #8, but that is not the average outcome.

Here is a fun story on best and worst:
LINK: How Well Does NBA Draft Order Predict Player Careers?

And here is an interesting story looking at the median player scored by WAR:
LINK: What Is Each Spot in the Draft Lottery Worth?
#5 is Kris Dunn and #8 is Stanley Johnson, Frank Ntilikina. That is, if Suggs emerges better than Dunn and F-Wagner over Johnson/Ntilikina, then this was a good draft.

The #8s of the last 20 years:
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes
2018 Collin Sexton
2017 Frank Ntilikina
2016 Marquese Chriss
2015 Stanley Johnson
2014 Nik Stauskas
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2012 Terrence Ross
2011 Brandon Knight
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu
2009 Jordan Hill
2008 Joe Alexander
2007 Brandan Wright
2006 Rudy Gay
2005 Channing Frye
2004 Rafael Araújo
2003 T. J. Ford
2002 Chris Wilcox

Looking at that list helps one reflect on reasonable expectations.

..

As an aside, the second link has Orlando as a slightly better than average team at finding value in the draft. Fake News !

..

RichCollab · Post #796 » by **RichCollab** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:54 pm

Biggest surprise for Franz? His handle!

RichCollab · Post #797 » by **RichCollab** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:58 pm

Barnes is looking pretty darn good. He is playing more minutes on a better team. He needs to improve shooting.

Optimus_Steel · Post #798 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:04 pm

RichCollab wrote:Biggest surprise for Franz? His handle!

That didnt look too good in summer league but he has completely turned that around. The reason he has been able to make these drives are because of that good handle. Its such a key to become a game changer. Then add the long stride, good footwork and instincts.

RichCollab · Post #799 » by **RichCollab** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:10 pm

Summer league this year was classic! The panic about Cole and Franz.

tiderulz · Post #800 » by **tiderulz** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:29 pm

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:sorry, i disagree. I think anyone drafting in the top-10 is expecting a starter. agree he is playing great and outplaying expectations though

Fans might "expect" a starter at #8, but that is not the average outcome.

Here is a fun story on best and worst:
LINK: How Well Does NBA Draft Order Predict Player Careers?

And here is an interesting story looking at the median player scored by WAR:
LINK: What Is Each Spot in the Draft Lottery Worth?
#5 is Kris Dunn and #8 is Stanley Johnson, Frank Ntilikina. That is, if Suggs emerges better than Dunn and F-Wagner over Johnson/Ntilikina, then this was a good draft.

The #8s of the last 20 years:
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes
2018 Collin Sexton
2017 Frank Ntilikina
2016 Marquese Chriss
2015 Stanley Johnson
2014 Nik Stauskas
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2012 Terrence Ross
2011 Brandon Knight
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu
2009 Jordan Hill
2008 Joe Alexander
2007 Brandan Wright
2006 Rudy Gay
2005 Channing Frye
2004 Rafael Araújo
2003 T. J. Ford
2002 Chris Wilcox

Looking at that list helps one reflect on reasonable expectations.

..

As an aside, the second link has Orlando as a slightly better than average team at finding value in the draft. Fake News !

..

so anyone drafting #9 should expect a better player than anyone drafting #8 because of past performance? it just means the people that picked at #8 picked wrong. and i say it again. Anyone drafting a top-10 pick is expecting a starter. anyone drafting a top-3 pick is expecting an all-star, at least once. It doesnt always pan out, but that is what is expected. anyone drafting 11-20 is expecting a bench/spot starter. just my view