76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[The Lamma]

Want him dealt for no other reason than: I'd like to see ANYONE ELSE in the headlines.

This chit is so tired out already

[HabsAndDubs]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

Or they can trade Embiid next year or the year after and go through the process yet again. He’s a top 10 guy in the league, but he’s not a once-in-a-generation guy like Steph or KD or Lebron, so what if you waste his prime?

Giving in to Simmons might be a line that Philly refuses to cross, and one that GMs are prepared to lose everything to defend, because this would effectively render contracts null for the team signing them; sorta like the opposite of how the NFL allows teams to release pretty much anyone at any point. The way I see it
- Simmons stands to lose more than the sixers do by not playing. Yes, they might miss out on what is probably just a mid tier all star at this point, but if Ben sits 2 seasons, he’ll never get those years back.
- the sixers will be okay if they waste Embiid’s prime- they will still have a team, will probably be a contender in the next decade, will still sell tons of tickets, etc.
- they’ve already messed up The Process and essentially ended up with one single player (a borderline MVP talent, no doubt). No Simmons, no fultz, no MCW, no any of those process era guys that ended up being good elsewhere. For them to win a championship, they’d have to flip nearly their entire team as is, so it’s not much of an extra step to send Embiid away too. Will this team realistically be a contender before he’s past his prime? I sincerely doubt it.
- worst consequence is they fire Morey, who would immediately get hired by someone else based on his resume and also reputation for not caving to players.



FTR I think it would be tragic for Philly to ruin Embiid and I guess Simmons’ primes because of this sort of thing, but I do wonder if there is anything more important to Philly than showing Simmons, and the league, who’s boss.

[michaelm]

I’m not gonna cry crocodile tears for the stinkin’ owners and whatever impulsive move their front office makes, but Ben has singled handedly crippled the trend towards stars completely calling the shots, by behaving so despicably that the Players Association has no stomach to back him up. Definitely no pressure on Daryl not to wait on his best deal, and no groundswell for Ben to collect on a contract he will not fulfill.

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Ben Simmons situation isn't going to be front and center at the next NBPA negotiation.

Agents and players around the league are paying attention and the message sent is this:

Any team can trade you but if you ask for a trade be prepared to be fined and forced to sit out.

I get it, you are Sixers fan who is upset that 33M of your cap space has been tied up for over 1/3 of the regular season.

But let's stop acting like Ben Simmons is hated league round by other players, they all are watching this situation closely and wondering "what if I dont want to play for the team I signed a contract with, is the same thing going to happen to me?"

And just so you know, no NBA star will ever sign with the Sixers as long as Morey is the GM so if anyone lost from this charade it's the Sixers organization and the fans.

He asked for a deal 4+ months ago and his trade value continues to plummet. Morey tried moving him during last year's trade deadline and refused to throw in the required pieces to get the Harden deal done.

As usual Morey expected his trade partner to give up way more than they should so he can "win the trade" and feed his massive ego. He played his cards wrong considering he was dealing with his former boss and considering Harden had been asking out of Houston and he would have been the perfect pairing for Embiid, most likely ending in at least a Final's appearance esp considering the Nets almost went to the FInals without two of their top three players.

As of last season your team did not have the pieces necessary to make the Finals even in an injury depleted shortened season. What makes you think that the same team minus Ben Simmons is going to go further than they did last year?

Sixers fans are quick to forget that the guy averaged 12 pts, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists on 8 FG attempts while shooting 62% in last year's playoffs. You think your team is going to perform better than that without a guy that is almost averaging a triple double while playing top tier level defense?

This isnt about Ben Simmons, it's about Morey's ego, and now it's too late as no one wants to touch Simmons given the narrative surrounding the situation in the last 4+ months.

Harden had way more value than Simmons but because he asked out look at what the Rockets got in return.

It should be front and center, and hopefully during the next rounds of negotiations the players get absolutely, totally, completely hammered on this one. In this case they have no ground to stand on.

This is totally about Ben Simmons. He signed a contract to play. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to sign a contract to play. He signed it himself. Voluntarily. Of his own free will. And now he's not choosing to honor it, yet he's still trying to weasel his way to getting paid by claiming he has mental health issues, even though he's not willing to work with the team that he signed a contract for.

People who get married without guns to their heads get divorced all the time, and there are definitely severe incompatibility issues between the two parties. Simmons very definitely hasn’t put in the work to keep the marriage going by at least trying to improve his shot.

To me Simmons is maximised as he stands by a different playing style/game plan than maximises Embiid, and they were never compatible as far as being a title winning combination deep in the play-offs. In terms of other teams for whom he would have high value he needs to be surrounded by shooters, and the question is how much value he would have for an already good team, and other teams would be taking a punt given a team would probably have to be built around him. He looks like he would be a good fit for GSW, but I suspect Curry wants to go forward with the core players he started with, and Green has proven heart in deep play-off runs which Simmons does not.

[bebopdeluxe]

So is Ben Simmons still getting paid? I really hope not. If he is, the next CBA negotiation should have a Ben Simmons rule.

The next CBA negotiation WILL have a "Ben Simmons rule." The NBA PA will try hard to fight it; that is why they are basically radio-silent on Simmons.

When the next deal has limits on contract length or specific claw-back provisions that restrict player movement or guaranteed dollars, I hope all of the players send Ben Simmons and Rich Paul a thank you card.

[sfballa13]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

This shows all the stubborn Sixers fans just what kind of value Simmons has around the league

A garbage dump of a team like the Pelicans doesnt want to give up a top talent for Simmons but other teams will give up a superstar?

Sixers would be lucky to get a deal like Brogdon + Sabonis/Turner

[Tomjas]

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Ben Simmons situation isn't going to be front and center at the next NBPA negotiation.

Agents and players around the league are paying attention and the message sent is this:

Any team can trade you but if you ask for a trade be prepared to be fined and forced to sit out.

I get it, you are Sixers fan who is upset that 33M of your cap space has been tied up for over 1/3 of the regular season.

But let's stop acting like Ben Simmons is hated league round by other players, they all are watching this situation closely and wondering "what if I dont want to play for the team I signed a contract with, is the same thing going to happen to me?"

And just so you know, no NBA star will ever sign with the Sixers as long as Morey is the GM so if anyone lost from this charade it's the Sixers organization and the fans.

He asked for a deal 4+ months ago and his trade value continues to plummet. Morey tried moving him during last year's trade deadline and refused to throw in the required pieces to get the Harden deal done.

As usual Morey expected his trade partner to give up way more than they should so he can "win the trade" and feed his massive ego. He played his cards wrong considering he was dealing with his former boss and considering Harden had been asking out of Houston and he would have been the perfect pairing for Embiid, most likely ending in at least a Final's appearance esp considering the Nets almost went to the FInals without two of their top three players.

As of last season your team did not have the pieces necessary to make the Finals even in an injury depleted shortened season. What makes you think that the same team minus Ben Simmons is going to go further than they did last year?

Sixers fans are quick to forget that the guy averaged 12 pts, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists on 8 FG attempts while shooting 62% in last year's playoffs. You think your team is going to perform better than that without a guy that is almost averaging a triple double while playing top tier level defense?

This isnt about Ben Simmons, it's about Morey's ego, and now it's too late as no one wants to touch Simmons given the narrative surrounding the situation in the last 4+ months.

Harden had way more value than Simmons but because he asked out look at what the Rockets got in return.

It should be front and center, and hopefully during the next rounds of negotiations the players get absolutely, totally, completely hammered on this one. In this case they have no ground to stand on.

This is totally about Ben Simmons. He signed a contract to play. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to sign a contract to play. He signed it himself. Voluntarily. Of his own free will. And now he's not choosing to honor it, yet he's still trying to weasel his way to getting paid by claiming he has mental health issues, even though he's not willing to work with the team that he signed a contract for.

People who get married without guns to their heads get divorced all the time, and there are definitely severe incompatibility issues between the two parties. Simmons very definitely hasn’t put in the work to keep the marriage going by at least trying to improve his shot.

To me Simmons is maximised as he stands by a different playing style/game plan than maximises Embiid, and they were never compatible as far as being a title winning combination deep in the play-offs. In terms of other teams for whom he would have high value he needs to be surrounded by shooters, and the question is how much value he would have for an already good team, and other teams would be taking a punt given a team would probably have to be built around him. He looks like he would be a good fit for GSW, but I suspect Curry wants to go forward with the core players he started with, and Green has proven heart in deep play-off runs which Simmons does not.

There’s a world of difference between the expectations placed on Simmons & Green

If Green records 9/9/9 with elite defence then he’s done his job in a series whereas it’s a massive failure for Simmons

Just yesterday I saw Draymond pass up 3 open layups/dunks in favour of kicking the ball out to shooters who missed 2/3

That would be global headlines if Simmons did it

[michaelm]

It should be front and center, and hopefully during the next rounds of negotiations the players get absolutely, totally, completely hammered on this one. In this case they have no ground to stand on.

This is totally about Ben Simmons. He signed a contract to play. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to sign a contract to play. He signed it himself. Voluntarily. Of his own free will. And now he's not choosing to honor it, yet he's still trying to weasel his way to getting paid by claiming he has mental health issues, even though he's not willing to work with the team that he signed a contract for.

People who get married without guns to their heads get divorced all the time, and there are definitely severe incompatibility issues between the two parties. Simmons very definitely hasn’t put in the work to keep the marriage going by at least trying to improve his shot.

To me Simmons is maximised as he stands by a different playing style/game plan than maximises Embiid, and they were never compatible as far as being a title winning combination deep in the play-offs. In terms of other teams for whom he would have high value he needs to be surrounded by shooters, and the question is how much value he would have for an already good team, and other teams would be taking a punt given a team would probably have to be built around him. He looks like he would be a good fit for GSW, but I suspect Curry wants to go forward with the core players he started with, and Green has proven heart in deep play-off runs which Simmons does not.

There’s a world of difference between the expectations placed on Simmons & Green

If Green records 9/9/9 with elite defence then he’s done his job in a series whereas it’s a massive failure for Simmons

Just yesterday I saw Draymond pass up 3 open layups/dunks in favour of kicking the ball out to shooters who missed 2/3

That would be global headlines if Simmons did it

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

[JujitsuFlip]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

This shows all the stubborn Sixers fans just what kind of value Simmons has around the league

A garbage dump of a team like the Pelicans doesnt want to give up a top talent for Simmons but other teams will give up a superstar?

Sixers would be lucky to get a deal like Brogdon + Sabonis/Turner

Brogdon not eligible for trade this season : (

[Nate505]

People who get married without guns to their heads get divorced all the time, and there are definitely severe incompatibility issues between the two parties. Simmons very definitely hasn’t put in the work to keep the marriage going by at least trying to improve his shot.

They do, and especially if they sign a contract before they get married, the terms of the contract tend to be honored.

Simmons could retire right now if he wanted to. He doesn't. He wants to get paid while not honoring the terms of his contract.

[Tor_Raps]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

[sfballa13]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

From an article with Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer:

They don’t have to move Ben just to move him and not waste a year of Embiid’s prime. They really believe that if they move Simmons for anything less than they value him, they’ll be sacrificing multiple years of Embiid’s prime for not maximizing Simmons as a trade asset. Their ultimate goal still remains to have Simmons get back on the court and join them because that was their goal I think moving into the offseason anyway. Simmons became a trade candidate when he requested it. I think the Sixers were definitely open to moving him for someone like Damian Lillard, Beal, or Harden. Short of that, they believe Ben is their best chance right now and the best possible addition to get this team back to where they were last year as the top team in the East.

Morey has his head so far up his butt that he cant see what's staring right in front of him:

Embiid, while great, has missed over 30% of possible regular season games in his career.

He is playing the most minutes of his entire career this season.

Morey is thinking years down the line instead of maximizing Embiid while he is healthy.

He refused to throw in the necessary pieces to get Harden (Rockets owner wasnt going to get swindled or feel he was swindled by Morey so he took the poo poo platter that was the Nets deal) - potentially costing Embiid/Sixers a finals birth or a title.

Now more than 1/3 of the regular season has been played, the Sixers are 5 games back from the 1st seed in the EC, and Simmons is no closer to being traded.

Yet look at that quote - Morey honestly believes that he has a chance to get Dame or Harden (as if the Nets would trade within the conference) for Simmons. Guy is a lunatic.

Pelicans refused to trade Ingram who is a far less valuable player than Dame/Harden and instead offered picks and other pieces. This is a rebuilding bottom feeder team who still has no desire to give up what they consider a big piece for Simmons.

Morey pooped the bed, period.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

If players can dictate the terms of their own trade whenever they want, without negotiating it in their contract, what is the point of guaranteed contracts from an ownership perspective?
If the player's union wants to negotiate for only 1 year contracts they should, but I'm guessing a lot of their membership won't be happy about that.
This is plainly a case of not operating in good faith by a player imo.
I dont see what dumping him for like Brogdon and a 1st, for example, really does for Philly's ownership either in terms of maximizing Embiid's prime or in terms of the bigger picture of wanting players to reasonably honor their contract.

[Tor_Raps]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

If players can dictate the terms of their own trade whenever they want, without negotiating it in their contract, what is the point of guaranteed contracts from an ownership perspective?
If the player's union wants to negotiate for only 1 year contracts they should, but I'm guessing a lot of their membership won't be happy about that.
This is plainly a case of not operating in good faith by a player imo.
I dont see what dumping him for like Brogdon and a 1st, for example, really does for Philly's ownership either in terms of maximizing Embiid's prime or in terms of the bigger picture of wanting players to reasonably honor their contract.

I agree that players shouldn't have this much power but sadly they do until something gets put in the CBA to stop this. It's great that Morey thinks he can be the first to lead change but it might be at the expense of his own teams well being.

Hes under the delusion that Lillard/Harden/Beal will become available and won't make a trade until someone of that calibre does. This isn't something that is in his control and yet he thinks it is.

He should have went harder after Harden if he was so infatuated. The more realistic scenarios are the CJ McCollum's of the world with other stuff included.

I only give a crap because I'm an Embiid fan but as a fan of the Raptors, I hope the Sixers keep fighting this pointless battle for 4 years while they suffer.

[sfballa13]

Morey looking like a genius today.

Who needs Simmons when you are losing at home to the Heat without Jimmy Butler, Bam, Herro, and Markieff?

4D chess everyone.

[Nate505]

Morey looking like a genius today.

Who needs Simmons when you are losing at home to the Heat without Jimmy Butler, Bam, Herro, and Markieff?

4D chess everyone.

Didn't they beat the Warriors without Simmons?

[sfballa13]

Morey looking like a genius today.

Who needs Simmons when you are losing at home to the Heat without Jimmy Butler, Bam, Herro, and Markieff?

4D chess everyone.

Didn't they beat the Warriors without Simmons?

Sixers record against teams over 0.500 ---> 10-10

You struggled to beat the Hawks who got smoked by the Bucks in the ECF, that's with Ben Simmons.

You just lost to a group of G-leaguers at home.

Embiid needs more help, since it wont be from Simmons it needs to be via a trade.

Too bad Morey refuses to trade him, oh well.

[SpreeS]

Brown/Smart

Simmons/Curry

Everybody happy

[Fencer reregistered]

Brown/Smart

Simmons/Curry

Everybody happy

Assuming you mean Seth Curry, that's pretty horrible for Boston.

[SpreeS]

Brown/Smart

Simmons/Curry

Everybody happy

Assuming you mean Seth Curry, that's pretty horrible for Boston.

Why?

[Nuntius]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

But there hasn't been a serious offer. What in the hell are they supposed to do? They can't trade Simmons for crap and that's been the offers so far. This team is title or bust. Making the finals doesn't matter to this organization. They'd be better off completely blowing it all up and trading Embiid than taking the deals being offered so far. They absolutely have to wait this out and if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years.

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.