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Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#981 » by Merc_Porto » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:57 pm

shrink wrote:
Merc_Porto wrote:I'm just tired of mediocrity, or treadmill territory for a franchise that has 1 playoffs appearance (1st round exit) in the last 15 years or something.

I completely agree with being tired of the mediocrity - heck, the losing. I And1’d your post because it totally represents how I feel. However, we are only going to improve the team by looking at players rationally. We can’t let our desperation blind us to realities. Saying, “he’s fine to play for other teams” is just wishful thinking - the evidence does not provide any certainty.

Every player brings risks. There is the potential for injuries, for lack of perforce, for meltdowns, for getting into trouble. Ben Simmons has great strengths that people love (defense, passing), but he has great weaknesses as well (never been able to shoot, pressure situations). On top of this, now you have a huge additional risk that no other player since Larry Sanders has shown - he is producing nothing because he is either emotionally incapable of playing basketball, OR he is simply willing to not honor contracts. This is one of the riskiest players I’ve ever seen, sitting on a potentially crippling four year max deal.

Maybe if he was traded here, he learns to shoot, pressure situations never bother him again, he is always mentally prepared to play basketball and he never again refuses to honor his contract. If that happened, he’d be a fantastic addition that would boost us out of mediocrity. We want to believe it. But that’s still wishful thinking, and wishful thinking is what has kept us in the basement for so long (Wiggins contract, for example).


Fair enough but I think you are taking too far the lack of shooting by Ben. We already talked about this.
You don't need Ben shooting the ball for a team to be successful, you can live with one non-shooter on the floor, especially when you have a big man in KAT that loves to live in the 3pt point line.

Ben gives so much more than defense and passing (playmaking), which are two things that we would improve a lot by adding him.
The lack of IQ of this team and the fact that this team lives and dies by their shooting nights would completely change.
Would open a lot more possibilities.

And of course, at the end of the day, is the talent of Ben, he would be automatically our best - second-best player without any question.

But once again, there is no way we can get him, is pretty obvious what Philly wants and they are not taking DLO, McDaniels, and Beasley. They weren't gonna take that kind of package at the beginning of the season, leave alone now.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#982 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:44 pm

shrink wrote:Let me bring a little optimism. With or without Ben Simmons, things change fast.

Compare us now to two years ago. We added Anthony freakin Edwards! We don’t have “unmovable” Andrew Wiggins. We have a great new coach. A new GM, and new owners are on the way. The team is Top Ten in .. defense?!? If the season ended today, we’d be in the play-in game.

I feel like we’re finally moving in the right direction, and if we can avoid a desperate Hail Mary, I am optimistic we can become a good team.


15th and dropping.

Now we find out what Finch is made of.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#983 » by Calinks » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:53 am

shrink wrote:Let me bring a little optimism. With or without Ben Simmons, things change fast.

Compare us now to two years ago. We added Anthony freakin Edwards! We don’t have “unmovable” Andrew Wiggins. We have a great new coach. A new GM, and new owners are on the way. The team is Top Ten in .. defense?!? If the season ended today, we’d be in the play-in game.

I feel like we’re finally moving in the right direction, and if we can avoid a desperate Hail Mary, I am optimistic we can become a good team.

Yep, that's kind of where I am now. I'm certainly disappointed in the current losing streak and I am worried about our chances for the play in with how poorly we have played lately but all in all, we are in a good place.

Worst case scenario IMO is we have to move Towns and blow up our vets. That would suck but we still have Ant, Jaden, our picks, a good coach, new owners, a vision. Other bad scenarios would be flopping again this season but continuing to add to the team and running it back even better next season.

All in all I don't see us dropping off into obscurity for any real length of time. We may have to rebuild again but we already got a prime piece for that. If we retool we could be much better team given another season or two.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#984 » by Domejandro » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:48 am

shrink wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:How can you possibly know that?

Why would Simmons lie?

To avoid losing tens of millions of dollars by getting fined.

No, if he’s trying to get traded, he would say he’s not mentally prepared to play for the Sixers, not that he’s not mentally prepared to play basketball. What he said hurts his position, and it hurts Morey’s position to trade him.

There is no way to know “he’s fine to play for any team.”

And even if people claim he is, that does not mean that the next time he wants out, he won’t simply do the same thing to a new team that he has done to PHI this season.

Both doors are risky, with his giant salary.

His team made it incredibly clear that Ben Simmons will play for any team except for Philadelphia, Daryl Morey did not trade him, they threatened to fine him, he came in and dogged it, got kicked out of practice (risking fines), and his team transitioned into the mental health excuse to try to protect him from fines. Saying that he mentally isn’t prepared to play for one specific team is not a valid protection from getting fined, it needed to be a general mental health dispute.

This is a complete nothing burger. If anything, a valid concern is whether or not he will in game shape (I think it would take a few weeks, which is problematic), but the mental health angle is to avoid getting fined; the timeline makes that pretty clear.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#985 » by shrink » Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:09 pm

Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:
Domejandro wrote:To avoid losing tens of millions of dollars by getting fined.

No, if he’s trying to get traded, he would say he’s not mentally prepared to play for the Sixers, not that he’s not mentally prepared to play basketball. What he said hurts his position, and it hurts Morey’s position to trade him.

There is no way to know “he’s fine to play for any team.”

And even if people claim he is, that does not mean that the next time he wants out, he won’t simply do the same thing to a new team that he has done to PHI this season.

Both doors are risky, with his giant salary.

His team made it incredibly clear that Ben Simmons will play for any team except for Philadelphia, Daryl Morey did not trade him, they threatened to fine him, he came in and dogged it, got kicked out of practice (risking fines), and his team transitioned into the mental health excuse to try to protect him from fines. Saying that he mentally isn’t prepared to play for one specific team is not a valid protection from getting fined, it needed to be a general mental health dispute.

No. Simmons continues to be fined .. by his team, not the league .. for missing games. The total crossed $7 mil last week. His team isn’t making this excuse to protect him from (league) fines - they are the ones fining him.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#986 » by Grubie024 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 pm

With D Lo's on/off numbers, net rating, impact, etc. it makes no sense to me to trade for Simmons. Give up a bunch of picks for a guy who shrinks in the playoffs? No thanks.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#987 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:14 pm

shrink wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:No, if he’s trying to get traded, he would say he’s not mentally prepared to play for the Sixers, not that he’s not mentally prepared to play basketball. What he said hurts his position, and it hurts Morey’s position to trade him.

There is no way to know “he’s fine to play for any team.”

And even if people claim he is, that does not mean that the next time he wants out, he won’t simply do the same thing to a new team that he has done to PHI this season.

Both doors are risky, with his giant salary.

His team made it incredibly clear that Ben Simmons will play for any team except for Philadelphia, Daryl Morey did not trade him, they threatened to fine him, he came in and dogged it, got kicked out of practice (risking fines), and his team transitioned into the mental health excuse to try to protect him from fines. Saying that he mentally isn’t prepared to play for one specific team is not a valid protection from getting fined, it needed to be a general mental health dispute.

No. Simmons continues to be fined .. by his team, not the league .. for missing games. The total crossed $7 mil last week. His team isn’t making this excuse to protect him from (league) fines - they are the ones fining him.


His team as in the people managing his career, not the 6ers.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#988 » by IceManBK1 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:29 pm

3 way b/w philly, ind and minny. Edwards and brogdon to Philly. Beasley, Maxey and Prince+1st rder from Minny to Ind. Turner and Simmons to Minny.

Philly: Brogdon/Edwards/Danny Green/Harris/Embiid
Ind: Maxey/Beasley/Levert/TJ Warren/Sabonis
Minny: Dlo/Beverly/Simmons/Turner/Towns
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#989 » by m2002brian » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:38 pm

Anything involving Edwards is a non-starter.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#990 » by shrink » Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:55 pm

BetOnline current odds for where Simmons ends up:

Portland Trail Blazers +175
Indiana Pacers +200
New Orleans Pelicans +250
New York Knicks +300
Boston Celtics +500
Los Angeles Lakers +700
Brooklyn Nets +1000
Detroit Pistons +1100
Minnesota Timberwolves +1200
Sacramento Kings +1400
Cleveland Cavaliers +1600
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#991 » by King Malta » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:59 pm

I think the ship has sailed on us being involved in the trade now, really.

The moment for it to happen (if it was ever going to) was in pre-season, where assets like McDaniels, Beasley and possibly our draft pick this year had more perceived value to Philly and the rest of the league.

The struggles of Indiana and Portland have brought in another two teams who can easily outbid us as far as available assets too.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#992 » by minimus » Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:43 am

m2002brian wrote:Anything involving Edwards is a non-starter.


IceManBK1 uses broken trade machine. :lol:
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#993 » by Neeva » Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:22 am

King Malta wrote:I think the ship has sailed on us being involved in the trade now, really.

The moment for it to happen (if it was ever going to) was in pre-season, where assets like McDaniels, Beasley and possibly our draft pick this year had more perceived value to Philly and the rest of the league.

The struggles of Indiana and Portland have brought in another two teams who can easily outbid us as far as available assets too.


Lillard starting to look washed , probably helps Philly get him?
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#994 » by winforlose » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:43 am

Gotta ask, who needs BS, when we have a V8.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#995 » by Klomp » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:22 pm

winforlose wrote:Gotta ask, who needs BS, when we have a V8.

I completely understand this opinion. I want to see Vanderbilt on the court as much as possible too, I love watching him.

HOWEVER.....

I think Vanderbilt is showing the blueprint for what can work at PF in this system, and Simmons fits into that blueprint almost as well as any player in the league. Defensively, he can take on the top "big wing" challenge every night and is big enough to do so, thanks to his length and mobility. He is an energy big who uses his quickness more than his strength. Offensively, though a poor and often unwilling shooter, his ability to screen and collapse the D with rim runs and dives opens up lanes for other teammates.

Right now, our closest alternative to Vanderbilt is Okogie, and that's not really good enough.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#996 » by old school 34 » Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:10 pm

How real does one take the Morey quadrangular talk, in regards to what a Ben Simmons deal finally ends up looking like? In playing around with it & of course 4-team deals are extremely complicated....but it seems like (assuming Philly would be taking a slightly less deal than originally asking for)...there seems to be multiple variations than one could convince themselves that it's reasonable from all sides?

Still seems like if BS was to land here...DLo would have to be in part of that transaction....but lots of other parts from those teams wouldn't be bad adds just by being an extra facilitator team.

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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#997 » by winforlose » Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:08 am

old school 34 wrote:How real does one take the Morey quadrangular talk, in regards to what a Ben Simmons deal finally ends up looking like? In playing around with it & of course 4-team deals are extremely complicated....but it seems like (assuming Philly would be taking a slightly less deal than originally asking for)...there seems to be multiple variations than one could convince themselves that it's reasonable from all sides?

Still seems like if BS was to land here...DLo would have to be in part of that transaction....but lots of other parts from those teams wouldn't be bad adds just by being an extra facilitator team.

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Not necessarily. We have several expiring contracts and MB has one bad year then team option. There are all kinds of moves we can make to facilitate. That said, Gupta is on the hottest seat there is. No one specifically hired him for this job. He is essentially an interim POBO and if he goes to the ownership group with bad or worse biased trades based on loyalty to Morey his career could take a serious hit. I wouldn’t be surprised if Glen and the new guys are calling all the shots this season.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#998 » by shrink » Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:18 pm

This “quadrangle” thing seems like a fake issue, just for PHI to try to get talks going again.

All these GM’s who’ve worked with Morey were there before (we swapped in a different guy who knows Morey), and nothing happened then. If people believe Simmons is a good contract, the contract is shorter now, and Simmons has less time to be impactful to help a team this year.

I would also question the premise that working with Morey in the past make a GM more likely to make a deal with him. I imagine all these guys were gloating along with Morey when he ripped off a previous GM in a trade, and they don’t want to be the new laughingstock.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#999 » by Calinks » Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:03 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1000 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:59 pm

Calinks wrote:
Read on Twitter

So if it was Ben Simmons in Boyz in the Hood it would have had a much better ending.

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