2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[Duke4life831]

Jokic has been the best player, so if it was 100% off of individual performance and impact I would say at this moment Jokic would deserve to repeat. Giannis has been the 2nd best player, but he is also playing for a top seeded team. So if we go with the normal standard, Giannis would be the frontrunner. I think there is then a gap to KD and Curry.

If Jokic continues this pace of play, its going to be very interesting to see where Denver ends up seeded in the West. Because if he can get this Denver team to a 3rd or 4th seed, I think he wins it pretty easily. He is just on pace to have a historic individual season. But I dont see him winning if Denver ends up any lower than that though. Because team record clearly plays a part in MVP voting and its not like Giannis isnt having a great season himself. If it wasn't for the season Jokic is having, it would be Giannis we are talking about who is leading pretty much every single "advanced stat".

[Woodsanity]

Curry isnt even having a very good season at this point. I rather have snake boy as MVP over him.

I'd be fine with Giannis, Durant or Jokic as MVP. Jokic is a hard sell since his team record is so poor since his team is trash atm even though he has been performing the best easily.

[BoatsNZones]

Who cares about the Vegas odds and the "narrative" BS? I always assume (even if wrongly so) the discussion on this board should focus on the actual numbers correlating to who's having the best individual season combined with leading their team to enough wins to qualify. And at this point Curry's individual numbers are incredibly mediocre for an MVP "favorite" (he'd have the lowest PER, WS/48, BPM, etc. since 2011 Rose), and aren't even close to either Jokic or Giannis. Maybe you can disqualify Jokic for now until the Nuggets are more than a game above .500. Fine, but Giannis and Jokic have clearly been the best two players by the numbers this season. The "1-seed" crap only really matters if the numbers are close, and so far, they aren't. They're in two entirely separate tiers for me:

Giannis
Jokic

*gap*

Curry
Durant

“The 1 seed crap” lol. He’s a top 4 player (I’ll defer to personal opinions to choose their order) and the best player on the best team in the league, with the fact that exactly no person on this board or in the media expecting them to be a top seed playing into his MVP case.

His numbers have fallen the past 2 weeks, but let’s not pretend for a second he has been anything other than elite on the year. He’s still averaging 27/6/6 on a >60% TS. He is top 5 in WinShares (4), VORP (3), BPM (5), EPM (2), RAPTOR (2), +/- (1).

No, there is no gap between him and the other candidates, at least not in the direction you perceive it. His slump (shooting slump I should add… he has still been by far the most impactful player on the team in this stretch) has at least allowed for this to be a debate now though, which is always more fun.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Curry is currently the odds on favorite by quite a bit. KD’s gone to another gear himself though, and is doing this now without the help of his two other stars, due to covid related reasons. Nets now have a 2.5 game lead over the east.

I feel like if they can finish #1 (probably will), KD has a real shot at upsetting Curry. Especially if the Warriors win pace drops some (already has recently). KD playing 48 minutes basically during games though is insane for a guy coming off a blown Achilles not long ago.

The guy is winning games with 8-9 players available, and playing the entire game just about. He’s dealing with nonstop lineup changes and issues. That has to count for a lot.

KD deserves props for the best Achilles comeback in NBA history AND being arguably the best player this year. Do you like his chances?

[HoopsterJones]

Seems like a 4 person race at this point. Still plenty of games for a dark horse candidate to emerge, but if I had to put money on it today it’s between Curry and Durant.

[whatisacenter]

there is a lot of season and narrative left for the eventual MVP.

[Duke4life831]

I mean we do have a dedicated thread at the top of this page just for this exact conversation...

But I dont think there is much of an argument of him being the best player this year so far. Essentially every statistic points to Jokic for that title. But I dont think Curry is KD's biggest bump to get over when it comes to MVP. Even if we assume Denver stays a really low seed, there is another guy in the East that has a great shot to win MVP and that is Giannis. Again statistically speaking, almost every stat favors him over KD at the moment and the Bucks are only 2.5 games behind 1st and that is with them probably being one of the most injured teams to start the season.

Dont get me wrong, KD is no doubt in the discussion for MVP, but at the moment it seems to be a 4 guy race and each week the rankings between those 4 switch up. So way too early to tell.

[youngcrev]

He's got the second best betting odds right now. Wouldn't exactly be a shocker.

[BoatsNZones]

Curry is currently the odds on favorite by quite a bit. KD’s gone to another gear himself though, and is doing this now without the help of his two other stars, due to covid related reasons. Nets now have a 2.5 game lead over the east.

I feel like if they can finish #1 (probably will), KD has a real shot at upsetting Curry. Especially if the Warriors win pace drops some (already has recently). KD playing 48 minutes basically during games though is insane for a guy coming off a blown Achilles not long ago.

The guy is winning games with 8-9 players available, and playing the entire game just about. He’s dealing with nonstop lineup changes and issues. That has to count for a lot.

KD deserves props for the best Achilles comeback in NBA history AND being arguably the best player this year. Do you like his chances?

I don't think he has a case as the best player on the year (I think it's Jokic #1 then the 3 behind him right now), but I agree with the rest of this. All three of Jokic, Giannis and KD have the ability/narrative to make an MVP bid with Curry to be sure.

[_NoMas]

Seems like a 4 person race at this point. Still plenty of games for a dark horse candidate to emerge, but if I had to put money on it today it’s between Curry and Durant.

Agree. My dark horse is Donavon Mitchell, who after a slow start is starting to find his form - plus Utah are on form and still within range of the warriors and suns at the top of the west.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic has been the best player, so if it was 100% off of individual performance and impact I would say at this moment Jokic would deserve to repeat. Giannis has been the 2nd best player, but he is also playing for a top seeded team. So if we go with the normal standard, Giannis would be the frontrunner. I think there is then a gap to KD and Curry.

If Jokic continues this pace of play, its going to be very interesting to see where Denver ends up seeded in the West. Because if he can get this Denver team to a 3rd or 4th seed, I think he wins it pretty easily. He is just on pace to have a historic individual season. But I dont see him winning if Denver ends up any lower than that though. Because team record clearly plays a part in MVP voting and its not like Giannis isnt having a great season himself. If it wasn't for the season Jokic is having, it would be Giannis we are talking about who is leading pretty much every single "advanced stat".

4th seed won’t cut it this year. Has to be 3rd or higher. There is too many narratives to over come.

[Duke4life831]

Jokic has been the best player, so if it was 100% off of individual performance and impact I would say at this moment Jokic would deserve to repeat. Giannis has been the 2nd best player, but he is also playing for a top seeded team. So if we go with the normal standard, Giannis would be the frontrunner. I think there is then a gap to KD and Curry.

If Jokic continues this pace of play, its going to be very interesting to see where Denver ends up seeded in the West. Because if he can get this Denver team to a 3rd or 4th seed, I think he wins it pretty easily. He is just on pace to have a historic individual season. But I dont see him winning if Denver ends up any lower than that though. Because team record clearly plays a part in MVP voting and its not like Giannis isnt having a great season himself. If it wasn't for the season Jokic is having, it would be Giannis we are talking about who is leading pretty much every single "advanced stat".

4th seed won’t cut it this year. Has to be 3rd or higher. There is too many narratives to over come.

I dont really disagree with that. But I do think if he keeps up the pace he is currently on. Its not just PER that he is going to dominate, he is running away with every single advanced metric. Whether its FiveThirtyEights RAPTOR where Jokic is sitting with a +14 (that would be the highest ever for that stat) and Giannis is 2nd with a +8.9 and so on. The gap he has over everyone else is pretty massive, that is how historically good he has been to start the season.

So if he were to keep up the pace he is on and Denver gets the 4th seed, I can see where stat guys like Zach Lowe push Jokic hard enough where the normal media starts to get behind him as well. But ya I agree he most likely will need 3rd or higher.

[jokeboy86]

Have a feeling if KD or Curry don't win the MVP there's going to be a lot of outrage from the hot take talking heads. They realize that Lebron's MVP winning days are over so they prefer to talk about the only other guys that bring eyeballs and page clicks since they have based their entire bb coverage around those 3(and also hoping Dame leaves Portland for a team-up). I'll say it again the national tv media is going to have a conniption if out of BKN, GSW, or LAL none of them make the Finals.

[BoatsNZones]

I don’t think the 3 seed is possible or a very reasonable ask with the Warriors, Suns and Jazz all rolling. I could get behind a Jokic argument if he got them to 4 while holding this statistical lead. But I do expect Curry to turn up himself back to normal sooner than later, and also for the Bucks to make a push for the 1 with the Nets, so even then it would be a tough argument.

That said, I do think the 4 is a realistic goal. As is we have the Grizzlies without Morant as the 4 seed and the Clippers without Kawhi as the 5. Their teams are still put together better than the Nuggets for sure, but that is what would make it MVP worthy IMO.

[Genjuro]

Jokic has been the best player, so if it was 100% off of individual performance and impact I would say at this moment Jokic would deserve to repeat. Giannis has been the 2nd best player, but he is also playing for a top seeded team. So if we go with the normal standard, Giannis would be the frontrunner. I think there is then a gap to KD and Curry.

If Jokic continues this pace of play, its going to be very interesting to see where Denver ends up seeded in the West. Because if he can get this Denver team to a 3rd or 4th seed, I think he wins it pretty easily. He is just on pace to have a historic individual season. But I dont see him winning if Denver ends up any lower than that though. Because team record clearly plays a part in MVP voting and its not like Giannis isnt having a great season himself. If it wasn't for the season Jokic is having, it would be Giannis we are talking about who is leading pretty much every single "advanced stat".

4th seed won’t cut it this year. Has to be 3rd or higher. There is too many narratives to over come.

I don't see a big difference between the 3rd and 4th seeds. It's HCA with a crappy team, that would be his own narrative.

[Mickey8]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ESPN

Check this video and ESPN's propaganda, look what they put in Kevin Durant shooting statistics against Raptors They are propping up the usual suspects by the committee . Look at the reactions of the former player clowns after Lowe have mentioned Jokic's name

[normgod6]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ESPN

Check this video and ESPN's propaganda, look what they put in Kevin Durant shooting statistics against Raptors They are propping up the usual suspects by the committee . Look at the reactions of the former player clowns after Lowe have mentioned Jokic's name

Let Zach Lowe speak the truth. Hopefully him stating the obvious will allow other media members to seriously consider Jokic for MVP. If 2017 Westbrook got it as the 6th seed and a much inferior statistical profile then Jokic this year, I dont see why the Nuggets record should be used against him, especially considering his absurd on off numbers

Sent from my SM-A530W using RealGM mobile app

[Hobo4President]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ESPN

Check this video and ESPN's propaganda, look what they put in Kevin Durant shooting statistics against Raptors They are propping up the usual suspects by the committee . Look at the reactions of the former player clowns after Lowe have mentioned Jokic's name

Sports media is so boring it's actually annoying

It's like they're reading a youtube comment thread as a script. The same boring, illogical and just plain stupid arguments over and over again

[WarriorGM]

If Jokic didn't get the MVP last year I'd consider him a serious contender this year. But he did. He's not going to go back-to-back without his team finishing first. The look will simply be too awful if he goes back-to-back but never wins a championship and didn't even lead a team to the best record. It will be justified by what? Advanced stats? Advanced stats that predicted what again?

[Ballerhogger]

Unfortunately the nuggets are nearly good enough to get 3-4 spot right now . He had triple double in blow out loss to the wolves . So why is numbers are nice it’s just not enough seeing how there barely in the playoffs as of now