Game 30 @ Milwaukee 8pm

[8305]

I've been suggesting trades to alter the core of Sabonis, Turner, Levert and Brogdan since before the draft. ... A package of 2021 rookies or picks moving forward seems to be the appropriate response.

such a deal is really hard to make in the season. I get why we didn't make one last summer with a new coach coming in and two key players expected to be healthier but know I think we have to wait to next summer. that's not all bad though as 1) it gives us time to see what if anything Warren can add, and 2)) if we continue to stink, there's the lottery.

I saw someone suggest a Golden State offer of Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody and GSW 2022 1st for Sabonis. I think you take that offer as opposed to waiting for the perfect time and the hope of something better.

[Tom White]

I saw someone suggest a Golden State offer of Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody and GSW 2022 1st for Sabonis. I think you take that offer as opposed to waiting for the perfect time and the hope of something better.

I don't see any way the Warriors would do that trade. They would be really over-paying.

[Wizop]

I saw someone suggest a Golden State offer of Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody and GSW 2022 1st for Sabonis. I think you take that offer as opposed to waiting for the perfect time and the hope of something better.

but who do you cut to create roster spots for a 3 for 1 deal?

[Topofthekey]

I've been suggesting trades to alter the core of Sabonis, Turner, Levert and Brogdan since before the draft. Maybe its good the deal wasn't made before now. The performance of this team supports more of a take a step back as opposed to better fitting veteran pieces. Sounds like we need to be contacting Warriors or Thunder. A package of 2021 rookies or picks moving forward seems to be the appropriate response.

Most of the trades you suggested involving trading Turner or Sabonis though

On one hand, it makes sense that that's the route to pursue, because trading one of them is probably the easiest way the team gets good value in return

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to start by trading one of them, when they are the least problematic part of the team's construction

Warren is unreliable, health wise

LeVert also has some injury issues, and can be inefficient

Brogdon doesn't facilitate enough, and can't defend quick PGs

Those are all problems that demand a higher priority than breaking up Turbonis

[Scoot McGroot]

we devolve into just attempting one on one, and we don’t have one of those guys right now.

I'm okay not having one of those guys and not trading to get one, but I agree that either our talent or our schemes lack something. Neither LeVert nor Duarte are good at creating shots for others. McConnell can but his lack of an outside shot makes it hard to use him in crunch time or the playoffs. should we trade LeVert or hire CCooper?

Yeah. I’m not saying it has to be a superstar. It has to be someone with patience and calm leadership on court.

[Scoot McGroot]

I saw someone suggest a Golden State offer of Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody and GSW 2022 1st for Sabonis. I think you take that offer as opposed to waiting for the perfect time and the hope of something better.

but who do you cut to create roster spots for a 3 for 1 deal?

Lamb and Wannamaker.

[Wizop]

Lamb and Wannamaker.

Is Wanamaker (one N I think) non-guaranteed? Lamb is guaranteed. assuming the salaries of the new players match the salary we give up, then we're paying tax on Lamb's salary?

[8305]

I saw someone suggest a Golden State offer of Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody and GSW 2022 1st for Sabonis. I think you take that offer as opposed to waiting for the perfect time and the hope of something better.

but who do you cut to create roster spots for a 3 for 1 deal?

First off I'd expect Wiseman to be flipped to a 2022 draft pick. After that who cares. We are talking about the 11th or 12th guys on a sub 500 team.

[Scoot McGroot]

Lamb and Wannamaker.

Is Wanamaker (one N I think) non-guaranteed? Lamb is guaranteed. assuming the salaries of the new players match the salary we give up, then we're paying tax on Lamb's salary?

Brad is non guaranteed. Lamb is guaranteed. But if the salary coming in is equal or lesser to Sabonis’ $19.7m salary, then we’d be fine. In this case, we’d cut about $2-2.5m from our committed salary. $3m if we got GS (or whomever) to take on Wanamaker’s deal. Lambs expiring would stay on the books, ut wouldn’t put us in the tax.

Ideally, we’d figure out a deal where we send Lamb for a smaller expiring and then waive the new guy. Not sure who that would be. Or, in this case, we would send Wiseman/Lamb elsewhere for a better fitting piece like a ball handling guard?

[8305]

I've been suggesting trades to alter the core of Sabonis, Turner, Levert and Brogdan since before the draft. Maybe its good the deal wasn't made before now. The performance of this team supports more of a take a step back as opposed to better fitting veteran pieces. Sounds like we need to be contacting Warriors or Thunder. A package of 2021 rookies or picks moving forward seems to be the appropriate response.

Most of the trades you suggested involving trading Turner or Sabonis though

On one hand, it makes sense that that's the route to pursue, because trading one of them is probably the easiest way the team gets good value in return

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to start by trading one of them, when they are the least problematic part of the team's construction

Warren is unreliable, health wise

LeVert also has some injury issues, and can be inefficient

Brogdon doesn't facilitate enough, and can't defend quick PGs

Those are all problems that demand a higher priority than breaking up Turbonis

I agree they are the two best players on the team. But, we've seen leaks/reports indicating neither one of these guys are happy here. Warren and Levert have no value and Brogdan can't be traded until after the season. Are we better to move through the rest of the season with frustrated under achieving veterans or should we make space to evaluate the few young guys we have?

[Topofthekey]

I've been suggesting trades to alter the core of Sabonis, Turner, Levert and Brogdan since before the draft. Maybe its good the deal wasn't made before now. The performance of this team supports more of a take a step back as opposed to better fitting veteran pieces. Sounds like we need to be contacting Warriors or Thunder. A package of 2021 rookies or picks moving forward seems to be the appropriate response.

Most of the trades you suggested involving trading Turner or Sabonis though

On one hand, it makes sense that that's the route to pursue, because trading one of them is probably the easiest way the team gets good value in return

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to start by trading one of them, when they are the least problematic part of the team's construction

Warren is unreliable, health wise

LeVert also has some injury issues, and can be inefficient

Brogdon doesn't facilitate enough, and can't defend quick PGs

Those are all problems that demand a higher priority than breaking up Turbonis

I agree they are the two best players on the team. But, we've seen leaks/reports indicating neither one of these guys are happy here. Warren and Levert have no value and Brogdan can't be traded until after the season. Are we better to move through the rest of the season with frustrated under achieving veterans or should we make space to evaluate the few young guys we have?

The main problem I think with the team isn't the lack of of talent

I mean, the lack of talent is a problem, but it isn't what's making the team play this terribly. Look at the Cavaliers. Sure, Mobley has performed above most people's expectations, but he's not making any All NBA teams yet. Like us, Cavs don't have a top 15 or top 25 player, yet they are comfortably in the playoff mix, compared to the embarrassment that we are right now

The Pacers are currently the opposite of the definition of greater than the sum of their parts

I think the problem starts at the top

That comment by Simon that everything is fine is greatly disturbing, and is perhaps the root of the team's problems

I mean, imagine if we had Lonzo Ball at PG, with Brogdon sliding over to SG

That adjustment alone would likely fix a lot of what is wrong with the team right now

Bulls got Lonzo in a S&T for Satoranksy, Garrett Temple, and a 2RP. It's a token offer that we could have easily beaten, if we wanted to

And that's the indication of the problem right there. We didn't try to beat the offer, because we saw no need to. We (Simon really) felt that the team was fine and there was no need to do anything. Well spoiler alert, the team is not fine at all

Coupled with the fact that Simon basically gave away to the Bucks a FRP, which could have been used to draft Immanuel Quickley, and that he supposedly was the driving force behind the Myles for Hayward trade, I'm beginning to feel convinced that Simon is the one who needs to be traded

But mostly it's his "the roster is fine as it is" mentality that is dragging the team down right now

Like I said, having a bit of sense of urgency, and translating it into action by acquiring Lonzo Ball for example, would likely have caused the season to unfurl very differently

[Wizop]

f the salary coming in is equal or lesser to Sabonis’ $19.7m salary, then we’d be fine.

I had what we call a senior moment.

[Scoot McGroot]

Most of the trades you suggested involving trading Turner or Sabonis though

On one hand, it makes sense that that's the route to pursue, because trading one of them is probably the easiest way the team gets good value in return

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to start by trading one of them, when they are the least problematic part of the team's construction

Warren is unreliable, health wise

LeVert also has some injury issues, and can be inefficient

Brogdon doesn't facilitate enough, and can't defend quick PGs

Those are all problems that demand a higher priority than breaking up Turbonis

I agree they are the two best players on the team. But, we've seen leaks/reports indicating neither one of these guys are happy here. Warren and Levert have no value and Brogdan can't be traded until after the season. Are we better to move through the rest of the season with frustrated under achieving veterans or should we make space to evaluate the few young guys we have?

The main problem I think with the team isn't the lack of of talent

I mean, the lack of talent is a problem, but it isn't what's making the team play this terribly. Look at the Cavaliers. Sure, Mobley has performed above most people's expectations, but he's not making any All NBA teams yet. Like us, Cavs don't have a top 15 or top 25 player, yet they are comfortably in the playoff mix, compared to the embarrassment that we are right now

The Pacers are currently the opposite of the definition of greater than the sum of their parts

I think the problem starts at the top

That comment by Simon that everything is fine is greatly disturbing, and is perhaps the root of the team's problems

I mean, imagine if we had Lonzo Ball at PG, with Brogdon sliding over to SG

That adjustment alone would likely fix a lot of what is wrong with the team right now

Bulls got Lonzo in a S&T for Satoranksy, Garrett Temple, and a 2RP. It's a token offer that we could have easily beaten, if we wanted to

And that's the indication of the problem right there. We didn't try to beat the offer, because we saw no need to. We (Simon really) felt that the team was fine and there was no need to do anything. Well spoiler alert, the team is not fine at all

Coupled with the fact that Simon basically gave away to the Bucks a FRP, which could have been used to draft Immanuel Quickley, and that he supposedly was the driving force behind the Myles for Hayward trade, I'm beginning to feel convinced that Simon is the one who needs to be traded

But mostly it's his "the roster is fine as it is" mentality that is dragging the team down right now

Like I said, having a bit of sense of urgency, and translating it into action by acquiring Lonzo Ball for example, would likely have caused the season to unfurl very differently

So, all reports were that Indy had interest and tried to make something happen. Lonzo just didn't want to come to Indy of his options, and he had total control. It was a S&T, and we didn't have cap space to make something happen, so wherever he wanted to go is wherever the deal would have been made. It doesn't matter what we would've or could've or should've offered. It just wasn't going to change that Lonzo chose to go to Chicago, not Indy.

[Topofthekey]

I agree they are the two best players on the team. But, we've seen leaks/reports indicating neither one of these guys are happy here. Warren and Levert have no value and Brogdan can't be traded until after the season. Are we better to move through the rest of the season with frustrated under achieving veterans or should we make space to evaluate the few young guys we have?

The main problem I think with the team isn't the lack of of talent

I mean, the lack of talent is a problem, but it isn't what's making the team play this terribly. Look at the Cavaliers. Sure, Mobley has performed above most people's expectations, but he's not making any All NBA teams yet. Like us, Cavs don't have a top 15 or top 25 player, yet they are comfortably in the playoff mix, compared to the embarrassment that we are right now

The Pacers are currently the opposite of the definition of greater than the sum of their parts

I think the problem starts at the top

That comment by Simon that everything is fine is greatly disturbing, and is perhaps the root of the team's problems

I mean, imagine if we had Lonzo Ball at PG, with Brogdon sliding over to SG

That adjustment alone would likely fix a lot of what is wrong with the team right now

Bulls got Lonzo in a S&T for Satoranksy, Garrett Temple, and a 2RP. It's a token offer that we could have easily beaten, if we wanted to

And that's the indication of the problem right there. We didn't try to beat the offer, because we saw no need to. We (Simon really) felt that the team was fine and there was no need to do anything. Well spoiler alert, the team is not fine at all

Coupled with the fact that Simon basically gave away to the Bucks a FRP, which could have been used to draft Immanuel Quickley, and that he supposedly was the driving force behind the Myles for Hayward trade, I'm beginning to feel convinced that Simon is the one who needs to be traded

But mostly it's his "the roster is fine as it is" mentality that is dragging the team down right now

Like I said, having a bit of sense of urgency, and translating it into action by acquiring Lonzo Ball for example, would likely have caused the season to unfurl very differently

So, all reports were that Indy had interest and tried to make something happen. Lonzo just didn't want to come to Indy of his options, and he had total control. It was a S&T, and we didn't have cap space to make something happen, so wherever he wanted to go is wherever the deal would have been made. It doesn't matter what we would've or could've or should've offered. It just wasn't going to change that Lonzo chose to go to Chicago, not Indy.

Oh I didn't know that

Do you have any links? I'd like to read up

[Scoot McGroot]

The main problem I think with the team isn't the lack of of talent

I mean, the lack of talent is a problem, but it isn't what's making the team play this terribly. Look at the Cavaliers. Sure, Mobley has performed above most people's expectations, but he's not making any All NBA teams yet. Like us, Cavs don't have a top 15 or top 25 player, yet they are comfortably in the playoff mix, compared to the embarrassment that we are right now

The Pacers are currently the opposite of the definition of greater than the sum of their parts

I think the problem starts at the top

That comment by Simon that everything is fine is greatly disturbing, and is perhaps the root of the team's problems

I mean, imagine if we had Lonzo Ball at PG, with Brogdon sliding over to SG

That adjustment alone would likely fix a lot of what is wrong with the team right now

Bulls got Lonzo in a S&T for Satoranksy, Garrett Temple, and a 2RP. It's a token offer that we could have easily beaten, if we wanted to

And that's the indication of the problem right there. We didn't try to beat the offer, because we saw no need to. We (Simon really) felt that the team was fine and there was no need to do anything. Well spoiler alert, the team is not fine at all

Coupled with the fact that Simon basically gave away to the Bucks a FRP, which could have been used to draft Immanuel Quickley, and that he supposedly was the driving force behind the Myles for Hayward trade, I'm beginning to feel convinced that Simon is the one who needs to be traded

But mostly it's his "the roster is fine as it is" mentality that is dragging the team down right now

Like I said, having a bit of sense of urgency, and translating it into action by acquiring Lonzo Ball for example, would likely have caused the season to unfurl very differently

So, all reports were that Indy had interest and tried to make something happen. Lonzo just didn't want to come to Indy of his options, and he had total control. It was a S&T, and we didn't have cap space to make something happen, so wherever he wanted to go is wherever the deal would have been made. It doesn't matter what we would've or could've or should've offered. It just wasn't going to change that Lonzo chose to go to Chicago, not Indy.

Oh I didn't know that

Do you have any links? I'd like to read up

Just in that every single report had the Pacers and Bulls linked and interested to Lonzo heading into free agency (never a guarantee), just before they all flipped to saying that Chicago was the favorite. It was just the wide reports over the entire market.

[davidfr94]

Most of the trades you suggested involving trading Turner or Sabonis though

On one hand, it makes sense that that's the route to pursue, because trading one of them is probably the easiest way the team gets good value in return

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to start by trading one of them, when they are the least problematic part of the team's construction

Warren is unreliable, health wise

LeVert also has some injury issues, and can be inefficient

Brogdon doesn't facilitate enough, and can't defend quick PGs

Those are all problems that demand a higher priority than breaking up Turbonis

I agree they are the two best players on the team. But, we've seen leaks/reports indicating neither one of these guys are happy here. Warren and Levert have no value and Brogdan can't be traded until after the season. Are we better to move through the rest of the season with frustrated under achieving veterans or should we make space to evaluate the few young guys we have?

The main problem I think with the team isn't the lack of of talent

I mean, the lack of talent is a problem, but it isn't what's making the team play this terribly. Look at the Cavaliers. Sure, Mobley has performed above most people's expectations, but he's not making any All NBA teams yet. Like us, Cavs don't have a top 15 or top 25 player, yet they are comfortably in the playoff mix, compared to the embarrassment that we are right now

The Pacers are currently the opposite of the definition of greater than the sum of their parts

I think the problem starts at the top

That comment by Simon that everything is fine is greatly disturbing, and is perhaps the root of the team's problems

I mean, imagine if we had Lonzo Ball at PG, with Brogdon sliding over to SG

That adjustment alone would likely fix a lot of what is wrong with the team right now

Bulls got Lonzo in a S&T for Satoranksy, Garrett Temple, and a 2RP. It's a token offer that we could have easily beaten, if we wanted to

And that's the indication of the problem right there. We didn't try to beat the offer, because we saw no need to. We (Simon really) felt that the team was fine and there was no need to do anything. Well spoiler alert, the team is not fine at all

Coupled with the fact that Simon basically gave away to the Bucks a FRP, which could have been used to draft Immanuel Quickley, and that he supposedly was the driving force behind the Myles for Hayward trade, I'm beginning to feel convinced that Simon is the one who needs to be traded

But mostly it's his "the roster is fine as it is" mentality that is dragging the team down right now

Like I said, having a bit of sense of urgency, and translating it into action by acquiring Lonzo Ball for example, would likely have caused the season to unfurl very differently

Not sure the cavs are a good example here. Garland/mobley/Allen are a lot better than anyone on our team.

Also hayward is totally what our team is lacking, a wing with some size that can create for himself and others off the dribble.
I liked that trade and it would have opened some playing Time for goga and Jackson.

I do not agree with you on the talent part. AT some point we have to face reality : sabonis is our only all Star, and not a great one, and even he was selected after injuries.
We have no other top talent (maybe Turner has some untaped potential but not much).
And it is not like we have a lot of high upside young players.

It's pretty much the first Time since i have been a fan that i dont see anyone on our team that we can build around. Reggie then O'Neal artest then Granger then goerge then oladipo now what ? Duarte ? I hope so but i am sceptic he can be more that a really good role player.

We have to find a way to get young talent with potential on this team.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using RealGM mobile app

[Vorda]

Sabonis should be first for trade... we should try to get Wood, Grant or Collins for him... we need more physical player.s.. Domas double double number doesnt help this team...

other two for trade should be Lamb and Warren... for some PG... Rubio, Kemba or Fox

[Topofthekey]

Not sure the cavs are a good example here. Garland/mobley/Allen are a lot better than anyone on our team.

Also hayward is totally what our team is lacking, a wing with some size that can create for himself and others off the dribble.
I liked that trade and it would have opened some playing Time for goga and Jackson.

I do not agree with you on the talent part. AT some point we have to face reality : sabonis is our only all Star, and not a great one, and even he was selected after injuries.
We have no other top talent (maybe Turner has some untaped potential but not much).
And it is not like we have a lot of high upside young players.

It's pretty much the first Time since i have been a fan that i dont see anyone on our team that we can build around. Reggie then O'Neal artest then Granger then goerge then oladipo now what ? Duarte ? I hope so but i am sceptic he can be more that a really good role player.

We have to find a way to get young talent with potential on this team.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using RealGM mobile app

Possibly

At the same time, none of them are considered the top 15 or top 25 in the league type

The comparison is neither the Cavaliers nor the Pacers have any "elite" All-NBA level type of talent

Yet one team is playing a lot better than the other