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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#121 » by Almost Retired » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:11 pm

samwana wrote:
Jo Jo English wrote:
samwana wrote:no one wants to go in cardiac arrest because of a medical treatment that doesn't seem to do much good. or get a collapsed lung out of it.


No one wants to see folks fall into misinformation traps like this either. There is a lot we are all going to learn about this before it is all said and done, whenever that is, but what you have been following is not it. Sorry.
ah very nice answer. thanks a lot that you care to tell me my knowledge is not it. not that i care about that really tbh.


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Someone HAS bothered to do very extensive research into Covid. Robert Kennedy Jr has recently written an extensively footnoted book (over 2,200 ) on Anthony Fauci and his behind the scenes role in this whole pandemic and the response to it. And nobody can accuse Kennedy of being some right wing zealot. He has carried the torch of his family's legacy for decades. His book, "The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health". The book has gotten rave reviews, of course not by Fauci himself. The book is currently #1 on the Amazon Best Seller List. So it is getting circulation, despite the mainstream media ignoring it as best as they can. Of course the ad hominem attacks against Kennedy are always out there because he dares to find some grains of truth in a country that provides nothing but lies and coverups. It's an important book if anyone bothered to try to read it with an open mind.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#122 » by FriedRise » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:38 pm

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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#123 » by Bulliever2020 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:47 pm

Would be very surprised if the Lakers game on Sunday doesn't get postponed

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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#124 » by ChiCitySPORTS#1 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:48 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:Would be very surprised if the Lakers game on Sunday doesn't get postponed

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I don’t think so, it took us 10 players in protocol before our game got postponed. If things change from now and Sunday, maybe.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#125 » by dice » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:00 am

ChiCitySPORTS#1 wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:Would be very surprised if the Lakers game on Sunday doesn't get postponed

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I don’t think so, it took us 10 players in protocol before our game got postponed. If things change from now and Sunday, maybe.

they really should have had strict standards all along rather than make it up as they go. the bulls had 8 players active (the minimum) but were permitted to postpone games because...they had more than that in protocol (?)...because they were for some reason permitted to add 3 additional players to the 15 man roster. meanwhile the nets, also w/ 8 active players, had to play. because...they didn't add as many G-leaguers to their roster (why i don't know) and thus didn't have as many people in protocols (?)

how about just not allowing exceptions to the 15 man roster rule and postponing if infections prevent fielding 8 players? :dontknow:
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#126 » by dice » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:05 am

Almost Retired wrote:
samwana wrote:
Jo Jo English wrote:
No one wants to see folks fall into misinformation traps like this either. There is a lot we are all going to learn about this before it is all said and done, whenever that is, but what you have been following is not it. Sorry.
ah very nice answer. thanks a lot that you care to tell me my knowledge is not it. not that i care about that really tbh.


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Someone HAS bothered to do very extensive research into Covid. Robert Kennedy Jr has recently written an extensively footnoted book (over 2,200 ) on Anthony Fauci and his behind the scenes role in this whole pandemic and the response to it. And nobody can accuse Kennedy of being some right wing zealot. He has carried the torch of his family's legacy for decades. His book, "The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health". The book has gotten rave reviews, of course not by Fauci himself. The book is currently #1 on the Amazon Best Seller List. So it is getting circulation, despite the mainstream media ignoring it as best as they can. Of course the ad hominem attacks against Kennedy are always out there because he dares to find some grains of truth in a country that provides nothing but lies and coverups. It's an important book if anyone bothered to try to read it with an open mind.

unfortunately, there are anti-vaxxers on the left as well. kennedy is one of them. he was banned from instagram for posting debunked junk. as such, he has a very obvious bias and there's very good reason why the mainstream media ignores him on matters of science. something tells me that his book is very far from important. while i'm sure there are indeed grains of truth sprinkled throughout its nearly 500 pages, i for one won't wasting my time sifting for them

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/05/how-robert-f-kennedy-jr-became-anti-vaxxer-icon-nightmare

and, of course, JFK jr is going to be trump's running mate in 2024:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/qanon-supporters-jfk-jr-dallas-b1962575.html

fauci, by the way, does not publicly espouse a political view and is not registered with either party. that he has become a right wing lightening rod says a great deal about the birther party's utter fealty to culture war conspiracy theory politics
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#127 » by kodo » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:00 am

We might be headed to just letting covid positive players play anyway.

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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#128 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:03 am

kodo wrote:We might be headed to just letting covid positive players play anyway.

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If asymptotic why not… hmmm ughhh such a big can of worms.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#129 » by NecessaryEvil » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:13 am

dougthonus wrote:
Mk0 wrote:It feels like I haven't seen this team play in a month.


I know, it's funny because if this were anytime in the past four years, it wouldn't matter so much, but I find myself looking forward to every game now as a positive fun experience in my life.



Same. I left the board for almost two years. I definitely didn't watch nightly the last two seasons. I barely even posted.

When the Bulls win nowadays, my night is 2x better :lol:

Contender or not, I appreciate this group & FO a ton. My life is better when the Bulls are good.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#130 » by Trm3 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:08 am

samwana wrote:
Jo Jo English wrote:
samwana wrote:no one wants to go in cardiac arrest because of a medical treatment that doesn't seem to do much good. or get a collapsed lung out of it.


No one wants to see folks fall into misinformation traps like this either. There is a lot we are all going to learn about this before it is all said and done, whenever that is, but what you have been following is not it. Sorry.
ah very nice answer. thanks a lot that you care to tell me my knowledge is not it. not that i care about that really tbh.


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Pretty obvious some people still watch CNN the leader in misinformation. The MSM is never going to tell their followers about the bad things that are happening with people who got the Fauci ouchie.

As for the NBA..it seems to me whatever they're doing is NOT working in regards to protocols and having them wear masks and vaccines. Keeping them isolated is the problem. It's called Herd immunity and going back to normal already! Natural immunity is 10x better than any vaccine.

Doesn't matter how many boosters these guys get they're still going to get it. It's a flu, there's no avoiding it.

The sooner people wake up the sooner we can move on. This will never end if they don't cause there is no end game.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#131 » by Trm3 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:12 am

kodo wrote:We might be headed to just letting covid positive players play anyway.

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As they should.

Imagine Jordan being told to sit because he had the "flu, the moronic variant" but he felt fine to play.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#132 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:12 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
kodo wrote:We might be headed to just letting covid positive players play anyway.

Read on Twitter



If asymptotic why not… hmmm ughhh such a big can of worms.

Well then they run the risk of spreading it to an at-risk person. It's a tough situation and based off how long it took them to postpone our games I have no confidence in the NBA making the right decision, whatever that may be.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#133 » by ThreeMileAllan » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:00 am

Trm3 wrote:
samwana wrote:
Jo Jo English wrote:
No one wants to see folks fall into misinformation traps like this either. There is a lot we are all going to learn about this before it is all said and done, whenever that is, but what you have been following is not it. Sorry.
ah very nice answer. thanks a lot that you care to tell me my knowledge is not it. not that i care about that really tbh.


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Pretty obvious some people still watch CNN the leader in misinformation. The MSM is never going to tell their followers about the bad things that are happening with people who got the Fauci ouchie.

As for the NBA..it seems to me whatever they're doing is NOT working in regards to protocols and having them wear masks and vaccines. Keeping them isolated is the problem. It's called Herd immunity and going back to normal already! Natural immunity is 10x better than any vaccine.

Doesn't matter how many boosters these guys get they're still going to get it. It's a flu, there's no avoiding it.

The sooner people wake up the sooner we can move on. This will never end if they don't cause there is no end game.
Yeah this useless vaccine. :eyeroll:

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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#134 » by jumpmanjay » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:14 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:The world has lost its mind and forgotten its original purpose. Vaccinating everyone is designed to make this disease less dangerous. It never was going to completely prevent disease.


Well vaccines are generally designed to prevent disease not make it less dangerous, so I don't know that this is true in terms of intention.


I don’t think that’s correct. Generally speaking, small pox is considered to be the only disease that’s ever been fully eradicated.

President Biden told the public that people who get the COVID vaccine won't catch COVID. Director of the CDC, Rochelle Walensky told the public that people vaccinated with the COVID vaccines do not become infected with COVID and do not spread it.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#135 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:15 pm

Interestingly the NFL is loosening up their protocols to get more games in.

Instead of needing two negative tests, they are trying to determine if you have enough viral load to be contagious, and if not, they are letting you play if asymptomatic.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#136 » by MGB8 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:28 pm

jumpmanjay wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Well vaccines are generally designed to prevent disease not make it less dangerous, so I don't know that this is true in terms of intention.


I don’t think that’s correct. Generally speaking, small pox is considered to be the only disease that’s ever been fully eradicated.

President Biden told the public that people who get the COVID vaccine won't catch COVID. Director of the CDC, Rochelle Walensky told the public that people vaccinated with the COVID vaccines do not become infected with COVID and do not spread it.


Yeah, that was weird. Although, in fairness, for the Alpha variant, the vaccines actually did seem to significantly reduce vaccinated people's ability to spread the disease (by something like 40%). Unfortunately, that didn't hold true for Delta - no statistically significant differences in the amount of viral load being shed or how long have been found in any of the studies (at least the handful that I've seen) between vaxed and unvaxed folks. Same will likely hold true for Omicron.

Anyway, there's a difference between not getting the disease vs. not getting infected - and that difference is what makes the distinction between "prevent disease" vs. "make disease less dangerous" somewhat semantics.

Vaccines aren't a forcefield that can keep viruses from entering the body and infecting some cells. What vaccines do, and have always done, is effectively "train" the body on how to defeat the specific invader, so that if/when the virus gets into the body and infects some cells, the body quickly ramps up the correct defenses and prevents too much spread. By preventing too much spread, you hopefully prevent negative symptoms - but depending on the efficacy of the vaccine (e.g., how quickly immune cells send the appropriate antibodies, and how well targeted / effective those antibodies are), you can either entirely prevent significant infection (and quickly deactivate any remaining virus) or have some lesser benefit (you get sick, but not as sick, and get healthier sooner).

Maybe the most hopeful take, though, is that Omicron itself will end up being an analog to a vaccine. A virus that is massively infectious - much more so than Delta - but also significantly milder. A new "common cold" --- where, once you fight off that common cold, your body will actually be decently primed to fight off other coronaviruses (including both older and future variants). So called "cross-immunity - where there are a number of scientists who believe that one of the big reason so many people have asymptomatic COVID infections is prior infections from "common-cold" coronaviruses.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#137 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:52 pm

MGB8 wrote:Vaccines aren't a forcefield that can keep viruses from entering the body and infecting some cells. What vaccines do, and have always done, is effectively "train" the body on how to defeat the specific invader, so that if/when the virus gets into the body and infects some cells, the body quickly ramps up the correct defenses and prevents too much spread. By preventing too much spread, you hopefully prevent negative symptoms - but depending on the efficacy of the vaccine (e.g., how quickly immune cells send the appropriate antibodies, and how well targeted / effective those antibodies are), you can either entirely prevent significant infection (and quickly deactivate any remaining virus) or have some lesser benefit (you get sick, but not as sick, and get healthier sooner).

Maybe the most hopeful take, though, is that Omicron itself will end up being an analog to a vaccine. A virus that is massively infectious - much more so than Delta - but also significantly milder. A new "common cold" --- where, once you fight off that common cold, your body will actually be decently primed to fight off other coronaviruses (including both older and future variants). So called "cross-immunity - where there are a number of scientists who believe that one of the big reason so many people have asymptomatic COVID infections is prior infections from "common-cold" coronaviruses.


I agree with much of what you wrote and disagree with a few things.

Generally speaking, if you think of every other vaccine that you get in your life that is referred to as a vaccine, it is for something that more or less no longer exists in this country because of the vaccine.

Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chicken Pox, etc...

If you choose to get the Hep A-C vaccines they also prevent you from getting the disease.

The hope was the COVID vaccine would work like that, but it doesn't, because COVID mutates, and it's more like the flu, so a single vaccine may help your body's immune response, but it doesn't stop you from getting/spreading. When the vaccine was first made, that wasn't known that it would happen and was actually a debate as to whether this would mutate. There were scientists lining up on both sides saying it would or would not.

This is going to be more like the flu shot, and note that no one calls it the flu vaccine. Why? Because people view vaccines as something that prevents you from getting something and has permanent effects. There's a reason why many people don't view this vaccine as a real vaccine or view it as a scam. Every other vaccine they get that is referred to as a vaccine operates differently. While there is some ignorance baked into that viewpoint, it is also based on how people commonly view the definition of words even if not explicitly correct.

I remember when they said two weeks working from home to stop the spread, I told my wife that was ridiculous, there was no way staying home for two weeks would do anything. People have largely been working from home ever since. It was obvious that they put out this message that wasn't realistic, and it isn't to say there wasn't value in moving to more remote work for a period of time, there clearly was, but the way they phrased it wasn't really reasonable.

As soon as Delta came out, and we saw that major mutations hit, we knew for certain that we are never going to get rid of COVID-19 all together, it will now be ever present in our lives and a new question opened up which is your final point. Can we get the impact of it low enough that while it is ever present, it is also irrelevant (or no more relevant than the common cold?). I guess we'll find out over the next few years, every other similar virus seemed to end up that way after around a five year period, so it seems likely, but not 100% certain.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#138 » by MGB8 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:08 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MGB8 wrote:Vaccines aren't a forcefield that can keep viruses from entering the body and infecting some cells. What vaccines do, and have always done, is effectively "train" the body on how to defeat the specific invader, so that if/when the virus gets into the body and infects some cells, the body quickly ramps up the correct defenses and prevents too much spread. By preventing too much spread, you hopefully prevent negative symptoms - but depending on the efficacy of the vaccine (e.g., how quickly immune cells send the appropriate antibodies, and how well targeted / effective those antibodies are), you can either entirely prevent significant infection (and quickly deactivate any remaining virus) or have some lesser benefit (you get sick, but not as sick, and get healthier sooner).

Maybe the most hopeful take, though, is that Omicron itself will end up being an analog to a vaccine. A virus that is massively infectious - much more so than Delta - but also significantly milder. A new "common cold" --- where, once you fight off that common cold, your body will actually be decently primed to fight off other coronaviruses (including both older and future variants). So called "cross-immunity - where there are a number of scientists who believe that one of the big reason so many people have asymptomatic COVID infections is prior infections from "common-cold" coronaviruses.


I agree with much of what you wrote and disagree with a few things.

Generally speaking, if you think of every other vaccine that you get in your life that is referred to as a vaccine, it is for something that more or less no longer exists in this country because of the vaccine.

Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chicken Pox, etc...

If you choose to get the Hep A-C vaccines they also prevent you from getting the disease.

The hope was the COVID vaccine would work like that, but it doesn't, because COVID mutates, and it's more like the flu, so a single vaccine may help your body's immune response, but it doesn't stop you from getting/spreading. When the vaccine was first made, that wasn't known that it would happen and was actually a debate as to whether this would mutate. There were scientists lining up on both sides saying it would or would not.

This is going to be more like the flu shot, and note that no one calls it the flu vaccine. Why? Because people view vaccines as something that prevents you from getting something and has permanent effects. There's a reason why many people don't view this vaccine as a real vaccine or view it as a scam. Every other vaccine they get that is referred to as a vaccine operates differently. While there is some ignorance baked into that viewpoint, it is also based on how people commonly view the definition of words even if not explicitly correct.

I remember when they said two weeks working from home to stop the spread, I told my wife that was ridiculous, there was no way staying home for two weeks would do anything. People have largely been working from home ever since. It was obvious that they put out this message that wasn't realistic, and it isn't to say there wasn't value in moving to more remote work for a period of time, there clearly was, but the way they phrased it wasn't really reasonable.

As soon as Delta came out, and we saw that major mutations hit, we knew for certain that we are never going to get rid of COVID-19 all together, it will now be ever present in our lives and a new question opened up which is your final point. Can we get the impact of it low enough that while it is ever present, it is also irrelevant (or no more relevant than the common cold?). I guess we'll find out over the next few years, every other similar virus seemed to end up that way after around a five year period, so it seems likely, but not 100% certain.


I don't really disagree. But there are (tiny numbers) of breakthrough cases of diseases that have vaccinations that are highly highly effective (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.), primarily in folks who have bad immune systems.

I agree that folks understand "vaccine" to mean something --- but that understanding has always been shallow. Also, I've always heard of the flu shot as a "flu vaccine". It's just a vaccine with pretty terrible efficacy (the "good" ones are between 40-65% effective, depending on which numbers you use - the bad ones basically do nothing at all).

Meanwhile, respiratory diseases are very, very hard to contain - and when you factor in that COVID appears to infect some animals... but the goal wasn't to stop, it was to "slow the spread" so that hospital systems weren't overrun, particularly at the beginning when we didn't know much and were terrified (noting that hospital systems almost always exist in the US without much surplus/surge capacity due to things like "certificates of need" - looping to be at 70-85% capacity on average - arguably regulatory capture to ensure profit and something that the government(s) need to take a long look at).

The only way to have "stopped the spread" would have been 6-8 week long lockdown where basically NO ONE went to work - no hospitals, no supermarkets, no meatpacking plants, no subways, etc. More people would have died from such a lockdown than the hundreds of thousands who died from COVID. In the end, the lockdowns likely did more harm than good - but what can you do?

Tangentially, while you and I and many on this forum have the luxury of being able to work remotely - that's only true and relevant for less than half of the US workforce. Most people who work do jobs that can't be done remotely because they need to physically work with things - mechanics and plumbers and electrical line workers and nurses and cops and food processors/packers and truckers and assembly line workers and prison guards and water treatment experts and veterinarians and librarians and zoo-keepers (and, in reality, non-college teachers and child-care workers), etc. etc. etc.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#139 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:18 pm

MGB8 wrote:I don't really disagree. But there are (tiny numbers) of breakthrough cases of diseases that have vaccinations that are highly highly effective (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.), primarily in folks who have bad immune systems.

I agree that folks understand "vaccine" to mean something --- but that understanding has always been shallow. Also, I've always heard of the flu shot as a "flu vaccine". It's just a vaccine with pretty terrible efficacy (the "good" ones are between 40-65% effective, depending on which numbers you use - the bad ones basically do nothing at all).


I agree with all of this, it's just from a PR perspective you can understand why people feel differently. Interesting that you hear of it as flu vaccine, maybe that is just a "me" thing then. I've never heard anyone call it that before, but maybe it's regional like soda vs pop or I have a weird group of people around me.

Meanwhile, respiratory diseases are very, very hard to contain - and when you factor in that COVID appears to infect some animals... but the goal wasn't to stop, it was to "slow the spread" so that hospital systems weren't overrun, particularly at the beginning when we didn't know much and were terrified (noting that hospital systems almost always exist in the US without much surplus/surge capacity due to things like "certificates of need" - looping to be at 70-85% capacity on average - arguably regulatory capture to ensure profit and something that the government(s) need to take a long look at).


It wasn't the goal of slowing the spread that I was arguing about, which was effective, it was that they said it would be two weeks which was obviously not going to be enough time. We were on pretty heavily lock down for about 6-8 weeks and pretty big restrictions for about a full year.

Tangentially, while you and I and many on this forum have the luxury of being able to work remotely - that's only true and relevant for less than half of the US workforce. Most people who work do jobs that can't be done remotely because they need to physically work with things - mechanics and plumbers and electrical line workers and nurses and cops and food processors/packers and truckers and assembly line workers and prison guards and water treatment experts and veterinarians and librarians and zoo-keepers (and, in reality, non-college teachers and child-care workers), etc. etc. etc.


Yeah, for sure, though all of the interactions you avoid are helpful. We've probably as a society cut down on total interactions we have collectively by 60-70% or more. That likely has a lot of other negative impacts which we'll feel over time.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#140 » by MGB8 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:25 pm

I was always skeptical of the lockdown approach, except potentially in very narrow, very high density geographic areas that had huge spikes.

They should have kept it to occupancy restrictions, and limiting mass gatherings to avoid "super-spreader" events. And they should have followed Europe's lead on schools (where their young kids went back to in-person schooling very quickly after the data came in showing those weren't significant drivers because young kids tend not to get COVID as much, as bad, or spread nearly as much or as bad, due to number of ACE receptors or whatnot). Add the hard push for remote work where doable. And, yes, the hated masks (best data that I've seen continues to support that community masking reduces spread rate by about 20% - not a panacea but not nothing, either).

Honestly, it's the latter that I'm really concerned about long-term - especially for non-well-off people who could form "teaching pods" etc. A lost year of schooling for the folks learning the very basics - kindergarten, grades 1-5 - I'm afraid of what the downstream affects of that are going to end up being.*

Don't get me wrong, shuttered businesses that will never come back, life savings drained, 20,000 person increase in drug overdose deaths, 5000 person increase in murders... also all horrible. But we are talking about 10s of millions of kids...

* (I'm also concerned about the impact of masking on pre-schoolers and very young children where that never really made sense in terms of risk profiles both from the tots and their risks from COVID; where there's some data to support community masking - noted above - but it's far from iron-clad / "gold-standard" - it's just that for adults it's more annoyance than harm; for children learning to make sounds and/or socialize...)

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