Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

[spikeslovechild]

Morey is dealt with a bad hand.
I know Morey wants to play a high variance game with a bad hand.

And for me, that means trading for a package of picks and pick swaps or try to be patient and be lucky to end up for a guy like dame or a top tier star.

No in betweens.

I don't agree with trading him for a package of picks and swaps unless it's part of a 3 team trade. At that point you are still better off holding onto ben rather than playing the stock market game with picks.

Holding unto ben and waiting to be lucky is the same as trading ben for picks and picks swap, in regards with those two package are high variance play that gets you a chance for a top tier player.

What does not get you that chance is trading ben for a sideways move like Dejounte Murray.

Package of picks or young players along with Tobi’s contract next season could also get you a top tier player.

Thats just how i look at it. And this is kind of also explains why Ben hasnt been traded yet for a Brogdon type package.

Sixers fan just want to trade Ben and end the pain. Morey has a longer view, he wants the Sixers to have a chance to be the top team in the league. And the only way to play that game with Ben as your main trade chip is taking high risks move like picks or holding and waiting to be lucky.

Except it;s not the same because the picks have more variance themselves and in large part their future value is completely out of your control. So no thanks to that. They could also convey before you are able to make a deal which would also add an additional wrinkle.

I'd rather just wait if we need to add picks later to make a deal for a player we want we can always add our own picks

[eyeatoma]

I really do not like you Ben...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/12/15/why-the-sixers-might-not-trade-ben-simmons-until-the-2022-offseason/?sh=11bd94c07960

[ProcessDoctor]

Last night's game actually made me hate Ben Simmons more, particularly the moment when Embiid rolled his ankle late in the game.

How can you be under contract, watch your teammates bust their asses for a win while playing through injuries, and keep sitting on your ass at home? Are you so self-absorbed that you don't even have the urge to help out the teammates who have had your back for years?

Dude is truly a POS. I hope he gets traded to the worst situation possible and becomes completely insignificant.

[SixthStreet]

I still don't understand the position of those who feel we should have just auctioned off Simmons with no reserve bid set before the year. Let's say this team has Brogdon and Duarte (a pretty solid outcome for a late lotto pick like he was) as that was really the only solidly reported offer on the table. It would play a lot more aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball and have won maybe 4-5 more games best case by this point in the year.

It would also be hard capped in terms of championship equity well short of what it needs to be and with no avenue to get better.

What actually have we gave up in holding out thus far? I think absolutely nothing. That calculus does change if Simmons is still Sixers property after the deadline but not in a way to sell him for a package of equal value of Brogdon/low lotto pick which would run out the clock on this iteration of the Sixers as a contender.

[spikeslovechild]

Last night's game actually made me hate Ben Simmons more, particularly the moment when Embiid rolled his ankle late in the game.

How can you be under contract, watch your teammates bust their asses for a win while playing through injuries, and keep sitting on your ass at home? Are you so self-absorbed that you don't even have the urge to help out the teammates who have had your back for years?

Dude is truly a POS. I hope he gets traded to the worst situation possible and becomes completely insignificant.

The worst possible situation is his current situation actually he is losing earning potential

[mjkvol]

I really do not like you Ben...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/12/15/why-the-sixers-might-not-trade-ben-simmons-until-the-2022-offseason/?sh=11bd94c07960

I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to do it right. This team is winning nothing as currently constructed, even with the addition of a solid player or two. This is a dysfunctional group with too many square pegs in round holes and no real game to game identity or plan, as we saw last night.

Much of that falls on Doc and his stubborn ways, but most of it is the result of years of bad drafts and mismanagement, never having a real plan or system to draft and sign players for. Instead, it was drafting "potential" and athletes instead of kids that could ... you know ... actually play. Maxey is the first really dynamic player we have drafted in years, it seems, who is ready to step in and lead. Instead, Doc keeps going to the same old same old with games in the balance.

One thing I never see discussed here - when we drafted Bridges I was thrilled, as he seemed a perfect plug-in 3&D fit, and then we went and traded him for another 'athlete' with 'potential' in Zhaire. I always see posts about missing out on SGA, but never anything on why in hell we just didn't keep Bridges, who is exactly the kind of player we would kill for now.

Anyway, I want Morey to hold out as long as it takes to make the right deal, even if it's the summer of '22. In the meantime, I'd like to see this group torn down, with only Maxey and Embiid as untouchables, and rebuilt with a new coach that has a legit plan that fits the way the game is played in 2020 as opposed to 2000.

[eyeatoma]

I really do not like you Ben...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/12/15/why-the-sixers-might-not-trade-ben-simmons-until-the-2022-offseason/?sh=11bd94c07960

I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to do it right. This team is winning nothing as currently constructed, even with the addition of a solid player or two. This is a dysfunctional group with too many square pegs in round holes and no real game to game identity or plan, as we saw last night.

Much of that falls on Doc and his stubborn ways, but most of it is the result of years of bad drafts and mismanagement, never having a real plan or system to draft and sign players for. Instead, it was drafting "potential" and athletes instead of kids that could ... you know ... actually play. Maxey is the first really dynamic player we have drafted in years, it seems, who is ready to step in and lead. Instead, Doc keeps going to the same old same old with games in the balance.

One thing I never see discussed here - when we drafted Bridges I was thrilled, as he seemed a perfect plug-in 3&D fit, and then we went and traded him for another 'athlete' with 'potential' in Zhaire. I always see posts about missing out on SGA, but never anything on why in hell we just didn't keep Bridges, who is exactly the kind of player we would kill for now.

Anyway, I want Morey to hold out as long as it takes to make the right deal, even if it's the summer of '22. In the meantime, I'd like to see this group torn down, with only Maxey and Embiid as untouchables, and rebuilt with a new coach that has a legit plan that fits the way the game is played in 2020 as opposed to 2000.

Yeah fair enough.

[Kobblehead]

If that's Morey's plan, we might need Silver to come in an appoint an NBA-lifer to oversee the organization again because that ain't it.

[76ciology]

I don't agree with trading him for a package of picks and swaps unless it's part of a 3 team trade. At that point you are still better off holding onto ben rather than playing the stock market game with picks.

Holding unto ben and waiting to be lucky is the same as trading ben for picks and picks swap, in regards with those two package are high variance play that gets you a chance for a top tier player.

What does not get you that chance is trading ben for a sideways move like Dejounte Murray.

Package of picks or young players along with Tobi’s contract next season could also get you a top tier player.

Thats just how i look at it. And this is kind of also explains why Ben hasnt been traded yet for a Brogdon type package.

Sixers fan just want to trade Ben and end the pain. Morey has a longer view, he wants the Sixers to have a chance to be the top team in the league. And the only way to play that game with Ben as your main trade chip is taking high risks move like picks or holding and waiting to be lucky.

Except it;s not the same because the picks have more variance themselves and in large part their future value is completely out of your control. So no thanks to that. They could also convey before you are able to make a deal which would also add an additional wrinkle.

I'd rather just wait if we need to add picks later to make a deal for a player we want we can always add our own picks

Yes and you also dont have the control to whether a team will trade a top tier star for Ben.

Im not all knowing and I could be wrong. But I believe Morey is just waiting to the point where the risk vs reward of a package of picks (the value of picks more determined near the deadline) is equal to the risk of getting nothing by waiting too long for a top tier star to be available. And right now, i think its close with the bruhaha happening with the Blazers and the deadline coming like 1-2 months from now and the upcoming draft coming and they’d have to scout early for hidden gems in the draft (morey’s been doing a lot of scouting)

Once Blazers really decides to keep dame, I think Morey is going to pull the trigger on a package of picks. Its going to be his best bet to land a top tier star. Either straight up converting talent for picks or repackaging those picks with existing assets for a top tier star package in the future.

[76ciology]

Btw have you guys checked the upcoming draft class? I think its very deep with around 8 guys who can make it to top 3 in other year’s draft

[Murray_17]

I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to do it right. This team is winning nothing as currently constructed, even with the addition of a solid player or two. This is a dysfunctional group with too many square pegs in round holes and no real game to game identity or plan, as we saw last night.

Much of that falls on Doc and his stubborn ways, but most of it is the result of years of bad drafts and mismanagement, never having a real plan or system to draft and sign players for. Instead, it was drafting "potential" and athletes instead of kids that could ... you know ... actually play. Maxey is the first really dynamic player we have drafted in years, it seems, who is ready to step in and lead. Instead, Doc keeps going to the same old same old with games in the balance.

One thing I never see discussed here - when we drafted Bridges I was thrilled, as he seemed a perfect plug-in 3&D fit, and then we went and traded him for another 'athlete' with 'potential' in Zhaire. I always see posts about missing out on SGA, but never anything on why in hell we just didn't keep Bridges, who is exactly the kind of player we would kill for now.

Anyway, I want Morey to hold out as long as it takes to make the right deal, even if it's the summer of '22. In the meantime, I'd like to see this group torn down, with only Maxey and Embiid as untouchables, and rebuilt with a new coach that has a legit plan that fits the way the game is played in 2020 as opposed to 2000.

The point of the Zhaire trade was not to get him but the FR pick Phoenix gave us for him from the Heat, the pick was unprotected too. At that point the team was trying to get Kawhi from the Spurs or Lebron on Free agency (lol), so we were collecting assets for abig trade around the clock. We were coming from the lost to Boston on the semis on a high and we had plenty of cap space, getting picks for a big move was the right call.

Yeah, Zhaire ended being a scrub, but a lot of it was his sickness and injury, just bad luck all around.

We had the picks and the chest, the fact we used it on Tobias is another story. And to be fair, Elton screwed hard on the next free agency but getting Butler as cheap as we got him, which allowed us to do another big trade (which sadly ended being Tobias) with all the assets we had was a great move.

I also love Bridges but he would not bring anything Danny doesn't do for us already on a cheaper contract currently.

[phifans]

The damage of waiting strategy has been done but can't see the reward yet ...

[mjkvol]

I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to do it right. This team is winning nothing as currently constructed, even with the addition of a solid player or two. This is a dysfunctional group with too many square pegs in round holes and no real game to game identity or plan, as we saw last night.

Much of that falls on Doc and his stubborn ways, but most of it is the result of years of bad drafts and mismanagement, never having a real plan or system to draft and sign players for. Instead, it was drafting "potential" and athletes instead of kids that could ... you know ... actually play. Maxey is the first really dynamic player we have drafted in years, it seems, who is ready to step in and lead. Instead, Doc keeps going to the same old same old with games in the balance.

One thing I never see discussed here - when we drafted Bridges I was thrilled, as he seemed a perfect plug-in 3&D fit, and then we went and traded him for another 'athlete' with 'potential' in Zhaire. I always see posts about missing out on SGA, but never anything on why in hell we just didn't keep Bridges, who is exactly the kind of player we would kill for now.

Anyway, I want Morey to hold out as long as it takes to make the right deal, even if it's the summer of '22. In the meantime, I'd like to see this group torn down, with only Maxey and Embiid as untouchables, and rebuilt with a new coach that has a legit plan that fits the way the game is played in 2020 as opposed to 2000.

The point of the Zhaire trade was not to get him but the FR pick Phoenix gave us for him from the Heat, the pick was unprotected too. At that point the team was trying to get Kawhi from the Spurs or Lebron on Free agency (lol), so we were collecting assets for abig trade around the clock. We were coming from the lost to Boston on the semis on a high and we had plenty of cap space, getting picks for a big move was the right call.

Yeah, Zhaire ended being a scrub, but a lot of it was his sickness and injury, just bad luck all around.

We had the picks and the chest, the fact we used it on Tobias is another story. And to be fair, Elton screwed hard on the next free agency but getting Butler as cheap as we got him, which allowed us to do another big trade (which sadly ended being Tobias) with all the assets we had was a great move.

I also love Bridges but he would not bring anything Danny doesn't do for us already on a cheaper contract currently.

Thanks for the response - I had forgotten the unprotected pick. It all makes sense, it's just a shame we didn't have someone competent to work with all that trade ammunition.

[the_process]

I'm fine with waiting as long as it takes to do it right. This team is winning nothing as currently constructed, even with the addition of a solid player or two. This is a dysfunctional group with too many square pegs in round holes and no real game to game identity or plan, as we saw last night.

Much of that falls on Doc and his stubborn ways, but most of it is the result of years of bad drafts and mismanagement, never having a real plan or system to draft and sign players for. Instead, it was drafting "potential" and athletes instead of kids that could ... you know ... actually play. Maxey is the first really dynamic player we have drafted in years, it seems, who is ready to step in and lead. Instead, Doc keeps going to the same old same old with games in the balance.

One thing I never see discussed here - when we drafted Bridges I was thrilled, as he seemed a perfect plug-in 3&D fit, and then we went and traded him for another 'athlete' with 'potential' in Zhaire. I always see posts about missing out on SGA, but never anything on why in hell we just didn't keep Bridges, who is exactly the kind of player we would kill for now.

Anyway, I want Morey to hold out as long as it takes to make the right deal, even if it's the summer of '22. In the meantime, I'd like to see this group torn down, with only Maxey and Embiid as untouchables, and rebuilt with a new coach that has a legit plan that fits the way the game is played in 2020 as opposed to 2000.

The point of the Zhaire trade was not to get him but the FR pick Phoenix gave us for him from the Heat, the pick was unprotected too. At that point the team was trying to get Kawhi from the Spurs or Lebron on Free agency (lol), so we were collecting assets for abig trade around the clock. We were coming from the lost to Boston on the semis on a high and we had plenty of cap space, getting picks for a big move was the right call.

Yeah, Zhaire ended being a scrub, but a lot of it was his sickness and injury, just bad luck all around.

We had the picks and the chest, the fact we used it on Tobias is another story. And to be fair, Elton screwed hard on the next free agency but getting Butler as cheap as we got him, which allowed us to do another big trade (which sadly ended being Tobias) with all the assets we had was a great move.

I also love Bridges but he would not bring anything Danny doesn't do for us already on a cheaper contract currently.

Bridges is much, much better than Danny at this point.

The Sixers need to sell Jo on a reset year right now. Even if he doesn't shut it down, just his understanding the rest of this year is going to be "retooling the roster" (aka stealth tank)

And then sell everything not named Embiid or Maxey.

[Murray_17]

Bridges is much, much better than Danny at this point.

I don't see it

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=mika+bridges%25ts

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=danny+green%25ts

I mean, yes, Mikal is probably better but he's also playing more minutes and has a bigger contract. I don't see the difference between both of them to justify a gap of 7 millions a year.

[FireMorey]

Windhorst reporting Fox may be available in trade.

[Slacktard]

Windhorst reporting Fox may be available in trade.

From seeing recaps of his podcast.

-Wolves are still big time pursuing Simmons, but who they will make available very much hurting chances.
-Kings have made nearly everyone (according to him) available. Kings not happy with Fox as he came into the season 15 lbs heavier than last year. Some internally want to move on from him.
-Blazers have everyone on the block except Dame.
-Predicts if Simmons is trades at least one or more of these will be involved and it most likely a multi-team trade (Timberwolves, Kings, Rockets)
-Cleveland may not be a Simmons final destination, but might be part of a multi-team trade as internally talks are about strengthening roster for a possible playoff push.

[ProcessDoctor]

Morey will try and squeeze out every additional asset he can in addition to Fox. Let's do this thang.

[Negrodamus]

Would have loved to do Simmons to T'Wolves, Fox and Vanderbilt to Sixers, Kings hold T'Wolves draft future + Beasley and Prince.

Fix rebounding and get Fox. T'Wolves have Towns and crew locked in for at least the next 3 years. Kings reset with Haliburton, add another youngish shooter, and cap relief. Could start to become a contender when the T'Wolves begin to fall apart.

[Sportfan73]

Would have loved to do Simmons to T'Wolves, Fox and Vanderbilt to Sixers, Kings hold T'Wolves draft future + Beasley and Prince.

Fix rebounding and get Fox. T'Wolves have Towns and crew locked in for at least the next 3 years. Kings reset with Haliburton, add another youngish shooter, and cap relief. Could start to become a contender when the T'Wolves begin to fall apart.

Would love to get Hield too just to push curry to the bench with Maxey.