2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[Vampirate]

I dont think its that foolish to say at this time. You are making it seem like Barnes is way better than Wagner or has a brighter future than Wagner. We dont know that yet and as rookies they are both very similar. One thing we do know is that both guys are going to have a bright future. I think when we look back at this draft Cade, Barnes, Mobley & Franz will all be all-stars if not borderline all stars.

I'm not saying there's not a possibility Franz won't become a superstar (this is the ceiling of both Barnes and Mobley and maybe Sengun, not that they are guaranteed to reach it).

In order for Franz to get to Superstar status he needs to become the next Dirk and really work and improve his midrange game.

He needs to be a big threat everywhere on the court, not just the 3 point line where he's best at right now.

Please dont use Superstar so loosely. You are now getting carried away by saying Barnes' and Sengun's ceiling is superstar. Lets get past their rookie season before we start using superstar as a ceiling for these guys. All-star potential yes, but Superstar is Hall of Fame players and I am not ready to say any of these guys have that type of ceiling just yet.

Its not that Franz doesnt shoot them, the Magic just dont shoot many mid range shots. Its not part of their offense. I'm not sure if you watch many magic games, but Franz is not play Point Forward even when Cole is on the court. A realistic comparison for Franz would be prime Hedo with the possibility of being a mix of Hedo and Peja. His game nowhere near resembles Dirk at all.

There's nothing wrong in saying you think a rookie has a possible realistic theoretical ceiling as a Superstar, which is basically saying just that.

I'm obviously projecting forwards but Barnes is indeed heading that direction.

In about less than half a year he went from a guy who couldn't shoot to this.



His shooting has been spread out all over the court.

If he keeps up his this type of improvement on the offensive end the sky is the limit.

Saying a player's ceiling is a Superstar is much different than saying he's going to be one.

As for Sengun there's a lot to like about him going forwards if his production translate with higher minutes.

And yes, for what it's worth there is a plausible scenario that Franz becomes a superstar as well if he becomes Dirk good as a shooter all over the court.

As for Franz, dream big why don't you. What is the absolute best case development for him and is it possible for him to reach that? Until he's proven otherwise, go big in his development projections

[OrlMagic05]

I'm not saying there's not a possibility Franz won't become a superstar (this is the ceiling of both Barnes and Mobley and maybe Sengun, not that they are guaranteed to reach it).

In order for Franz to get to Superstar status he needs to become the next Dirk and really work and improve his midrange game.

He needs to be a big threat everywhere on the court, not just the 3 point line where he's best at right now.

Please dont use Superstar so loosely. You are now getting carried away by saying Barnes' and Sengun's ceiling is superstar. Lets get past their rookie season before we start using superstar as a ceiling for these guys. All-star potential yes, but Superstar is Hall of Fame players and I am not ready to say any of these guys have that type of ceiling just yet.

Its not that Franz doesnt shoot them, the Magic just dont shoot many mid range shots. Its not part of their offense. I'm not sure if you watch many magic games, but Franz is not play Point Forward even when Cole is on the court. A realistic comparison for Franz would be prime Hedo with the possibility of being a mix of Hedo and Peja. His game nowhere near resembles Dirk at all.

There's nothing wrong in saying you think a rookie has a possible realistic theoretical ceiling as a Superstar, which is basically saying just that.

I'm obviously projecting forwards but Barnes is indeed heading that direction.

In about less than half a year he went from a guy who couldn't shoot to this.



His shooting has been spread out all over the court.

If he keeps up his this type of improvement on the offensive end the sky is the limit.

Saying a player's ceiling is a Superstar is much different than saying he's going to be one.

As for Sengun there's a lot to like about him going forwards if his production translate with higher minutes.

And yes, for what it's worth there is a plausible scenario that Franz becomes a superstar as well if he becomes Dirk good as a shooter all over the court.

As for Franz, dream big why don't you. What is the absolute best case development for him and is it possible for him to reach that? Until he's proven otherwise, go big in his development projections

A whole lot of IFS there. I’m not one to project superstar after seeing 2 months of basketball from a rookie, but more power to you.

[zaymon]

lol come on now, that'd be foolish. Wagner looks good but Barnes certainly projects to be much better than both of those guys at this point, it's crazy the level of skill he's already attained while also having far superior physical characteristics to basically every other rookie except Mobley and perhaps Kuminga. Yet, even I'm not so big of a homer that I wouldn't trade Barnes for Mobley if offered. Barnes projects amazing but Mobley will likely win several DPOYs, so I would do that deal if Cleveland offered (they wouldn't).

Barnes is great, pleasure to watch but he relies on his tools a lot. Barnes looks almost fully developed physically while Wagner has a lot room to grow.
Barnes is 6'7 pf/c while Wagner is 6'10 sg/sf, you could argue whose ceiling is really higher, but Wagner is more skilled for sure.
People compare Barnes to Giannis, but he is not great driving to the rim. Wagner has a lot more volume and better efficiency.

Simply not true but go on.

Well its true unless you want to argue nba tracking stats.
Wagner 8.2 drives per game 41,8 fg%, 6,5 ast%, 2,6 tov%
Barnes 5.0 drives per game, 38,5 fg%, 4,6 ast%, 9,9 tov%

[Vampirate]

Please dont use Superstar so loosely. You are now getting carried away by saying Barnes' and Sengun's ceiling is superstar. Lets get past their rookie season before we start using superstar as a ceiling for these guys. All-star potential yes, but Superstar is Hall of Fame players and I am not ready to say any of these guys have that type of ceiling just yet.

Its not that Franz doesnt shoot them, the Magic just dont shoot many mid range shots. Its not part of their offense. I'm not sure if you watch many magic games, but Franz is not play Point Forward even when Cole is on the court. A realistic comparison for Franz would be prime Hedo with the possibility of being a mix of Hedo and Peja. His game nowhere near resembles Dirk at all.

There's nothing wrong in saying you think a rookie has a possible realistic theoretical ceiling as a Superstar, which is basically saying just that.

I'm obviously projecting forwards but Barnes is indeed heading that direction.

In about less than half a year he went from a guy who couldn't shoot to this.



His shooting has been spread out all over the court.

If he keeps up his this type of improvement on the offensive end the sky is the limit.

Saying a player's ceiling is a Superstar is much different than saying he's going to be one.

As for Sengun there's a lot to like about him going forwards if his production translate with higher minutes.

And yes, for what it's worth there is a plausible scenario that Franz becomes a superstar as well if he becomes Dirk good as a shooter all over the court.

As for Franz, dream big why don't you. What is the absolute best case development for him and is it possible for him to reach that? Until he's proven otherwise, go big in his development projections

A whole lot of IFS there. I’m not one to project superstar after seeing 2 months of basketball from a rookie, but more power to you.

It's odd but pre season in terms of production pretty much every Raptor fan including myself thought we were getting what Josh Giddey is putting up. A guy that can pass, rebound a bit, defend but needs serious help in his shot.

He's flown well past that and it's kinda ridiculous.

But back to Franz, how good of a player do you think it's possible for him to get to? Keep in mind, i'm not asking you how good of a player you think he will get to, i'm asking what type of a ceiling is it possible for him to reach if all goes well?

Based on his tool set like his height and his current skills what is theoretically possible and realistic for him if all goes well?

[LoveMyRaps]

Barnes is great, pleasure to watch but he relies on his tools a lot. Barnes looks almost fully developed physically while Wagner has a lot room to grow.
Barnes is 6'7 pf/c while Wagner is 6'10 sg/sf, you could argue whose ceiling is really higher, but Wagner is more skilled for sure.
People compare Barnes to Giannis, but he is not great driving to the rim. Wagner has a lot more volume and better efficiency.

Simply not true but go on.

Well its true unless you want to argue nba tracking stats.
Wagner 8.2 drives per game 41,8 fg%, 6,5 ast%, 2,6 tov%
Barnes 5.0 drives per game, 38,5 fg%, 4,6 ast%, 9,9 tov%

I was under the impression that you were implying that Wagner is a more efficient scorer overall.

[LoveMyRaps]

Great half for Wagner. Impressive pass out of the double to end the quarter as well, which unfortunately won’t show up on the box score.

[thelead]

Great half for Wagner. Impressive pass out of the double to end the quarter as well, which unfortunately won’t show up on the box score.

He’s so good that I don’t even worry when he’s not looking good. His BBIQ is through the roof. He does all of the little things and is even handling having to play PG tonight against Lowry. I thought he was going to be a solid glue/fringe starter before the draft but he is certainly much more than that. I love the way this kid plays.

[OrlMagic05]

There's nothing wrong in saying you think a rookie has a possible realistic theoretical ceiling as a Superstar, which is basically saying just that.

I'm obviously projecting forwards but Barnes is indeed heading that direction.

In about less than half a year he went from a guy who couldn't shoot to this.



His shooting has been spread out all over the court.

If he keeps up his this type of improvement on the offensive end the sky is the limit.

Saying a player's ceiling is a Superstar is much different than saying he's going to be one.

As for Sengun there's a lot to like about him going forwards if his production translate with higher minutes.

And yes, for what it's worth there is a plausible scenario that Franz becomes a superstar as well if he becomes Dirk good as a shooter all over the court.

As for Franz, dream big why don't you. What is the absolute best case development for him and is it possible for him to reach that? Until he's proven otherwise, go big in his development projections

A whole lot of IFS there. I’m not one to project superstar after seeing 2 months of basketball from a rookie, but more power to you.

It's odd but pre season in terms of production pretty much every Raptor fan including myself thought we were getting what Josh Giddey is putting up. A guy that can pass, rebound a bit, defend but needs serious help in his shot.

He's flown well past that and it's kinda ridiculous.

But back to Franz, how good of a player do you think it's possible for him to get to? Keep in mind, i'm not asking you how good of a player you think he will get to, i'm asking what type of a ceiling is it possible for him to reach if all goes well?

Based on his tool set like his height and his current skills what is theoretically possible and realistic for him if all goes well?

Realistically I think he could be a prime Hedo with defense. My homer dream would be him turning into a 6'10 mix between Hedo/Peja/Luka lol He is having a hell of a first half so far 17point on 7/10 shooting.

[Gasolina]

Wagner definitely has the BBIQ that makes Hayward such a good player. I don’t think Franz will have the most eye-popping box scores during his career, but he will absolutely impact winning. A very good decision maker at the NBA level already.

[MoneyTalks41890]

There's nothing wrong in saying you think a rookie has a possible realistic theoretical ceiling as a Superstar, which is basically saying just that.

I'm obviously projecting forwards but Barnes is indeed heading that direction.

In about less than half a year he went from a guy who couldn't shoot to this.



His shooting has been spread out all over the court.

If he keeps up his this type of improvement on the offensive end the sky is the limit.

Saying a player's ceiling is a Superstar is much different than saying he's going to be one.

As for Sengun there's a lot to like about him going forwards if his production translate with higher minutes.

And yes, for what it's worth there is a plausible scenario that Franz becomes a superstar as well if he becomes Dirk good as a shooter all over the court.

As for Franz, dream big why don't you. What is the absolute best case development for him and is it possible for him to reach that? Until he's proven otherwise, go big in his development projections

A whole lot of IFS there. I’m not one to project superstar after seeing 2 months of basketball from a rookie, but more power to you.

It's odd but pre season in terms of production pretty much every Raptor fan including myself thought we were getting what Josh Giddey is putting up. A guy that can pass, rebound a bit, defend but needs serious help in his shot.

He's flown well past that and it's kinda ridiculous.

But back to Franz, how good of a player do you think it's possible for him to get to? Keep in mind, i'm not asking you how good of a player you think he will get to, i'm asking what type of a ceiling is it possible for him to reach if all goes well?

Based on his tool set like his height and his current skills what is theoretically possible and realistic for him if all goes well?

Giddey is already a top ten passer in the league, but yeah Barnes is way ahead in shooting and defense.

[KembaWalker]

A whole lot of IFS there. I’m not one to project superstar after seeing 2 months of basketball from a rookie, but more power to you.

It's odd but pre season in terms of production pretty much every Raptor fan including myself thought we were getting what Josh Giddey is putting up. A guy that can pass, rebound a bit, defend but needs serious help in his shot.

He's flown well past that and it's kinda ridiculous.

But back to Franz, how good of a player do you think it's possible for him to get to? Keep in mind, i'm not asking you how good of a player you think he will get to, i'm asking what type of a ceiling is it possible for him to reach if all goes well?

Based on his tool set like his height and his current skills what is theoretically possible and realistic for him if all goes well?

Giddey is already a top ten passer in the league

??

[Bruin]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

[basketballRob]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

He just got his shots in the flow of the game.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[SOUL]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

He was our best option with all of COVID related players out/injuries. Even with a healthy roster I'd say he's top 3 on any given night depending on if Cole is hot/cold or if Ross/WCJ are hitting shots

[orlando_joe]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

magic played without 10 players tonight...

[Bruin]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

magic played without 10 players tonight...

Ah right I forgot. Btw my comment wasn’t trying to make it as a negative thing against Franz. Just was wondering that’s all

[orlando_joe]

Is Franz being essentially used as the Magic first option? 23 FGA attempts tonight seems awfully high. Was efficient with it though so that’s nice to see

magic played without 10 players tonight...

Ah right I forgot. Btw my comment wasn’t trying to make it as a negative thing against Franz. Just was wondering that’s all

all good did not take it as such..wish he got 15 to 20 shots a game right now..think he gets like 12?

[7r5ur]

Barnes is great, pleasure to watch but he relies on his tools a lot. Barnes looks almost fully developed physically while Wagner has a lot room to grow.
Barnes is 6'7 pf/c while Wagner is 6'10 sg/sf, you could argue whose ceiling is really higher, but Wagner is more skilled for sure.
People compare Barnes to Giannis, but he is not great driving to the rim. Wagner has a lot more volume and better efficiency.

Simply not true but go on.

Well its true unless you want to argue nba tracking stats.
Wagner 8.2 drives per game 41,8 fg%, 6,5 ast%, 2,6 tov%
Barnes 5.0 drives per game, 38,5 fg%, 4,6 ast%, 9,9 tov%

Out of curiosity I looked up Cade's drive stats to compare:

Cade 11.7 drives per game, 52.2 FG%, 8.6 ast%, 6.2 tov%

It's interesting how some people were saying he would struggle to get to the rim in the NBA.

[bkseven]

Simply not true but go on.

Well its true unless you want to argue nba tracking stats.
Wagner 8.2 drives per game 41,8 fg%, 6,5 ast%, 2,6 tov%
Barnes 5.0 drives per game, 38,5 fg%, 4,6 ast%, 9,9 tov%

Out of curiosity I looked up Cade's drive stats to compare:

Cade 11.7 drives per game, 52.2 FG%, 8.6 ast%, 6.2 tov%

It's interesting how some people were saying he would struggle to get to the rim in the NBA.

Yea all those jokesters during SL saying Cade is too slow to get to the rim . Oh he’s slow and unathletic

[Goon]

No love for Bones.. had a career high with 24. Was kinda surprised he wasn't even mentioned.

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