Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

[stormi]

To my expertly trained eye that's undergone the amount of film study enough to publish a thesis on every era of basketball in history, Tobias Harris is one of the worst (/overvalued) players in the sport right now, and it's been bothering me since his first playoffs here.

If he can't take over a big game at any point he's as good as a role player to me. So if you can get a better fitting role player then it's a deal I'm willing to make.

Whether that's Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, Kevin Love, John Wall. I'm game.

[Kobblehead]

> Shoots more 3's
> Isn't Tobias Harris

All I need to see or hear.

Career:
Tobias Harris: 4.2 3pa per 36
Matisse Thybulle: 4.1 3pa per 36
Harrison Barnes: 3.9 3pa per 36

Harrison Barnes does not space the floor at all. He's currently attempted 5.2 3pa per 36 (mediocre frequency) but that number has been dropping significantly since earlier in the season. By year end, he'll be right down to the Tobias Harris level of spacing he's been at his whole career.

[stormi]

Harris was shooting sub 4 three's a game last season and is teetering right on that line again this year. That's just disgraceful volume.

Barnes was shooting 6 attempts a few years ago (elite) and is right up around 5 attempts this year.

On a team where we have aspirations, either Barnes or Harris are likely starter #4 talent wise. Barnes fits that role better while actually just being better at the sport in general.

Harrison Barnes has a much better handle and is getting to the line 6x per game. Tobias has never been able to even eclipse the 4x per game mark and settles in around 3.5 FTa/game. He's taking 15x shots per game and getting to line once, maybe twice on a good day. Why? Because he can't break a defense down and has no ability of finishing through contact.

Again, I'd swap them contracts not involved. Getting off Harris' deal makes this an all out heist.

[Tomjas]

Wood is not a 4

No sane GM will ever pair up Ben & Tobias again

[Kobblehead]

If you want to dump Harris, fine. But please find a 3rd team to re-route Barnes to. Barnes brings no single trait to the table, he's a big nothing of a player. He offers no shotcreating, no spacing, no defense, no passing, no rebounding. He sucks on both ends of the floor. He's far worse and far more useless basketball player than Tobias Harris.

[stormi]

Wood is a 5 tbh. It's hard because you can't pair Jojo with these hybrid bigs like you can with Yannis because he doesn't share that same mobility.

Embiid is the Brolo in that Bucks formula, not the Giannis. We would need a Siakam or something to replicate that front court aesthetically.

[Kobblehead]

Wood is not a 4

No sane GM will ever pair up Ben & Tobias again

The Cavs are trying to pivot the league into starting a bunch of frontcourt players together. I think that only works defensively if you have a bunch of skinny dweeby frontcourt players like Mobley and Allen that can move their feet and cover a lot of ground. Wood is a skinny dweeb like those two, but Embiid is too clunky to fit with another C.

[GuideDog]

We could do a 3 team trade with the primary pieces being the Pacers getting Ben, Celtics getting Sabonis and the Sixers getting Jaylen Brown.

[kuclas]

If you want to dump Harris, fine. But please find a 3rd team to re-route Barnes to. Barnes brings no single trait to the table, he's a big nothing of a player. He offers no shotcreating, no spacing, no defense, no passing, no rebounding. He sucks on both ends of the floor. He's far worse and far more useless basketball player than Tobias Harris.

Agree. Anyone on the Kings has inflated state.

Even R Holmes who we gave away for free to phoenix managed to pad his stats while playing no defense which netted him a guarantee 4 year/45 million dollar paycheck which set him for life now. Mainly due to kings up tempo offense with really no defense.

[the_process]

Boston seems more open to breaking up Tatum and Brown cause it hasn't worked. They are both scorer and somewhat redundant. Ben would be great on that team. Jaylen Brown would be the best we can for Simmons.

I think JB is overrated, but this would be must watch basketball for the storylines.

Tatum & Brown definitely have an internal rivalry and spend most of each game trying to one up each other at the expense of their own teams success.

And then Ben vs' Embiid and the entire city of Philadelphia.

Boston v. Philly would be must see TV if that deal went down. I have concerns about Jaylen being a really bad locker room presence. But you roll the dice on the talent.

[the_process]

If Wood can’t play with Jo, then no need to bring him here.

[Skates]

Woods was not playing great at the four in Houston and started shining out lately when they moved him to the five. Likely not a great fit here for him or us.

[mjkvol]

I hear what you are saying…but aren’t we already screwed if Joel isn’t that guy? We’ve kinda gone too far at this point. Outside of a glimmer of hope for Dame, who else do we even have a remote chance of getting? Beal is a very good player, but is he really the type of guy you add to Jo and we are instantly title favorites? Is there a single other guy available that fits your criteria of a closer?

Again, I agree with you in theory. I just don’t know how possible it is. And if faced with keeping this same thing or trying something new…I’ll go new every time. Ben and Tobi are dragging us down and the plan can’t be pray for a miracle trade or go down with the ship. I think there has to be a middle ground there eventually.

Totally agree with your entire post. To me, it's close to a pipe dream that we're going to acquire that real difference maker with Simmons or Harris, but given that fact, here are your choices:

1. Make the type of trade that brannigan73 proposed and become the Jazz of the East. That is fine unless your goal is winning championships, but we have used our last trade chip, and what we are will be what we are, barring something crazy that Morey can do trade or draft wise.

2. Hold out on a Simmons trade until that difference maker comes available. Could it happen? Certainly, but what would we have to give up for this all or nothing move? Championship teams need depth and solid role players, but it seems like we would be surrendering that plus draft capital for this to happen legitimately, but it is still a shot.

3. Tear it down - move anyone and everyone around Embiid, hoping to strike gold with youth in 2-3 years. But where will Jo be at that point, if he even signed off on something like this. Likely it would mean moving him as well, and a total rebuild.

Bottom line - Morey needs to fill an inside straight to make this into a championship team as it stands. In other words, we're pretty much f***ked in that regard.

I prefer either option 2 or 3. I'd rather leave it in Morey's hands and roll the dice than settling for a 'nice' return that insures that ownership can cash playoff checks for the rest of Embiid's career but never have a shot at the brass ring.

Good post, agree with the most or it. I admittedly didn’t read the original post you were quoting. I agree that his Indiana offer wouldn’t be nearly good enough. Any trade that is going to be deemed as “settling” would take a fairly complex 3/4 team trade to make it worth while in my opinion

If it’s Indiana I don’t hate getting Levert and Warren back as really solid role players for the Sixers…but they need to be attached to Duarte + at least 1 1st. That would give Morey a chance to have a fairly enticing package for a 3rd team to get involved. Get Levet and Warren + flip Duarte, Thybulle, picks, and Danny Green($) for another good player and we are in the range of what I’m ok with settling for a non star player in return.

That deal works for me. If we can improve our role players and still have trade ammo for a big move - home run. If the Embiid group is going to have a shot at being championship caliber, it's going to take patience and likely a series of moves, not just one or two. Your trade is an excellent start.

[Arsenal]

Harris was shooting sub 4 three's a game last season and is teetering right on that line again this year. That's just disgraceful volume.

Barnes was shooting 6 attempts a few years ago (elite) and is right up around 5 attempts this year.

On a team where we have aspirations, either Barnes or Harris are likely starter #4 talent wise. Barnes fits that role better while actually just being better at the sport in general.

Harrison Barnes has a much better handle and is getting to the line 6x per game. Tobias has never been able to even eclipse the 4x per game mark and settles in around 3.5 FTa/game. He's taking 15x shots per game and getting to line once, maybe twice on a good day. Why? Because he can't break a defense down and has no ability of finishing through contact.

Again, I'd swap them contracts not involved. Getting off Harris' deal makes this an all out heist.

This. Barnes str8 up for Harris would be an absolute heist for us once you factor in their contracts.

Hope Morey is pushing to include this in any Ben - Fox swap.

[mjkvol]

Harris was shooting sub 4 three's a game last season and is teetering right on that line again this year. That's just disgraceful volume.

Barnes was shooting 6 attempts a few years ago (elite) and is right up around 5 attempts this year.

On a team where we have aspirations, either Barnes or Harris are likely starter #4 talent wise. Barnes fits that role better while actually just being better at the sport in general.

Harrison Barnes has a much better handle and is getting to the line 6x per game. Tobias has never been able to even eclipse the 4x per game mark and settles in around 3.5 FTa/game. He's taking 15x shots per game and getting to line once, maybe twice on a good day. Why? Because he can't break a defense down and has no ability of finishing through contact.

Again, I'd swap them contracts not involved. Getting off Harris' deal makes this an all out heist.

This. Only thing I'll add is that it isn't just the amount of 3's or FT's a game, it's when they are taken and under what game conditions. Harris might have the most invisible stat lines night to night in the history of the game.

[stormi]

Harris was shooting sub 4 three's a game last season and is teetering right on that line again this year. That's just disgraceful volume.

Barnes was shooting 6 attempts a few years ago (elite) and is right up around 5 attempts this year.

On a team where we have aspirations, either Barnes or Harris are likely starter #4 talent wise. Barnes fits that role better while actually just being better at the sport in general.

Harrison Barnes has a much better handle and is getting to the line 6x per game. Tobias has never been able to even eclipse the 4x per game mark and settles in around 3.5 FTa/game. He's taking 15x shots per game and getting to line once, maybe twice on a good day. Why? Because he can't break a defense down and has no ability of finishing through contact.

Again, I'd swap them contracts not involved. Getting off Harris' deal makes this an all out heist.

This. Only thing I'll add is that it isn't just the amount of 3's or FT's a game, it's when they are taken and under what game conditions. Harris might have the most invisible stat lines night to night in the history of the game.

Definitely a player you have to watch and not just look at their bbref page to get a grasp on.

You just never see him dominating down the stretch ever. Ever.

It's why he doesn't perform come playoff time. It's down the stretch, intensive basketball but all game long - and against teams that have gameplanned and scouted your weaknesses in preparation to play you over and over again for the next two weeks.

[ProcessDoctor]

If Wood can’t play with Jo, then no need to bring him here.

I think he could, but that's just me. He can stretch the floor, is a great cutter, and is awesome at providing weakside defensive help. Looking at his impact historically, he had his best season as 4 in Detroit next to, ironically, Andre Drummond.

I guess it would come down to the cost of acquiring him though.

PHI out: Simmons (to SAC), Harris (to SAC), Milton (to SAC), 2022 FRP (to HOU), 2023 FRP swap (to HOU)
PHI in: Fox, Barnes, Wood

Is probably the most I'd pay for that incoming package.

[Tomjas]

Tobias is a negative contract so attaching him to a Ben trade simply lessens the return plus the Kings already have too many guards so don’t need Milton

[GuideDog]

Boston seems more open to breaking up Tatum and Brown cause it hasn't worked. They are both scorer and somewhat redundant. Ben would be great on that team. Jaylen Brown would be the best we can for Simmons.

I think JB is overrated, but this would be must watch basketball for the storylines.

Tatum & Brown definitely have an internal rivalry and spend most of each game trying to one up each other at the expense of their own teams success.

And then Ben vs' Embiid and the entire city of Philadelphia.

Boston v. Philly would be must see TV if that deal went down. I have concerns about Jaylen being a really bad locker room presence. But you roll the dice on the talent.

Adding Jaylen Brown would bring back some excitement about this team too. There's just a flat feeling right now. He's also a capable closer.

Adding Barnes isn't going to do anything for us. Say no to that!

[Kobblehead]

We still haven't seen Jaylen Brown in a shotcreation role and I'm worried that his stagecoach shooting ability would turn back into a pumpkin the moment he came to Philly.