PG: Kemba Rises From the Ashes. Knicks Still Ass

[Clyde_Style]

Trade Burks. I'm not sure about Rose.

Trade Kemba, obviously.

I think Fournier is movable. He's pretty established in the league and 30 games doesn't outweigh 7 years. At the same time we'd probably take back trash. So iffy on that this season.

I don't think it will be a full scale teardown unless there is a deal for Julius on the table (Fox?). Just enough to get the young guys on the floor.

Kemba is not in the rotation so that technically wouldn't open up minutes but I get your point. Burks can be moved and that would probably open up mins for Grimes or McBride.

Fournier is going to be really tough to move unless we are willing to take a bad contract back in return who is worse player just to open up minutes. That probably would make basketball sense but it also signals the FO is pulling the plug on the entire offseason they sold us on...they would have to swallow a lot of pride and a tough sell to an owner. Not sure you can have many more offseasons like that if you are trying to trade nearly every pieces you signs to multi year deals in year 1 of there deals because they aren't performing.

They were signed to be traded though. I'm steadfast in that belief. I don't think offloading any of them matters in any meaningful way.

The FO has to do what's best regardless. I think it's an easy sell to pivot because all the young guys (that you drafted) are producing faster than anticipated.

That's what the fans want to see anyway.

Jesus H., a voice of reason

Where have you been hiding?

[Clyde_Style]

let's brainstorm....which teams could realistically be interested in Randle?

Beijing Ducks

The Piscataway Bing Bongs

[blueNorange]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

[mpharris36]

Trade Burks. I'm not sure about Rose.

Trade Kemba, obviously.

I think Fournier is movable. He's pretty established in the league and 30 games doesn't outweigh 7 years. At the same time we'd probably take back trash. So iffy on that this season.

I don't think it will be a full scale teardown unless there is a deal for Julius on the table (Fox?). Just enough to get the young guys on the floor.

Kemba is not in the rotation so that technically wouldn't open up minutes but I get your point. Burks can be moved and that would probably open up mins for Grimes or McBride.

Fournier is going to be really tough to move unless we are willing to take a bad contract back in return who is worse player just to open up minutes. That probably would make basketball sense but it also signals the FO is pulling the plug on the entire offseason they sold us on...they would have to swallow a lot of pride and a tough sell to an owner. Not sure you can have many more offseasons like that if you are trying to trade nearly every pieces you signs to multi year deals in year 1 of there deals because they aren't performing.

They were signed to be traded though. I'm steadfast in that belief. I don't think offloading any of them matters in any meaningful way.

The FO has to do what's best regardless. I think it's an easy sell to pivot because all the young guys (that you drafted) are producing faster than anticipated.

That's what the fans want to see anyway.

They may have been signed to be traded but they have to be playing well to be traded. Other teams see whats happening with the knicks this is a sh*t show. How many teams are knocking down the door for a Randle? A Fournier? A Noel? A Kemba?

Maybe you can sell me on a team with interest in Burks...a combo guard/wing that can score off the bench has some value. Someone would trade for Rose as well (but I don't think Thibs would sign off on dealing his guy).

If we can see that the team is better with Grimes a rookie than paying a 17 MM to Fournier then I'm sure other teams see that as well.

[snadler]

A few things, with Covid and the lack of players even healthy, plus with all the protocols it’s nearly impossible to make any trades right now..second Randle isn’t getting traded..first he’s playing like crap and teams won’t want him at this price..maybe at 15 million for a 3rd option not at 29 million. And most importantly it would be Leon rose and company admitting a mistake and unlikely he would do that after 50 games

[Nazrmohamed]

Thibs worn out his welcome too.
Usually it’s a 3 year cycle for him but he surprised us a year sooner, nice.

Read on Twitter

I didn't like this comment on Kemba. came across as cold

IMO they need to go rebuild/play the youth and he ain't the coach for a team going in that direction

It WAS cold and for Kembas sake it should've been cold. Nothing worse than a coach not being honest with you and giving you delusions of grandeur or making promises he can't deliver upon. But the real reason I don't have a problem with it is as much as I bash Thibs and his lineups the media don't make decisions here. And you know how it works in NYC and what they're trying to make him say and he wasn't having any part of that. So I don't have a problem with how he handled that. I have more problems with how he calls that damn game.

[knickstape4ever]

I sincerely doubt Thibs is anywhere near the hot seat

unfortunately not, but based on the direction this team needs to go, Thibs isn't the right coach for the job

Thibs and this FO are tied together. I don't see Leon moving on from him

How patient will Dolan be? I assume Leon sold Dolan on improvement this season, so he'll likely be disappointed when we miss the playoffs. if we miss the play-in game, does that force Dolans hand? IMO as of now, I think Thibs coaches this year and next, but when they fail to live up to last season for 2 years in a row, missing the playoffs, Dolan will then reset w/ a new FO

We are not making the Play-In game. We’re a lottery team

I dont think so either, but you can still be a lotto team and make the play-in

[blueNorange]

Damn the trade Randle movement is gaining momentum rapidly.. as a previous Randle supporter I can’t say I’m not on the train myself..

you're not allowed, certain randle stans must wear their shame.

[Clyde_Style]

A few things, with Covid and the lack of players even healthy, plus with all the protocols it’s nearly impossible to make any trades right now..second Randle isn’t getting traded..first he’s playing like crap and teams won’t want him at this price..maybe at 15 million for a 3rd option not at 29 million. And most importantly it would be Leon rose and company admitting a mistake and unlikely he would do that after 50 games

If the ship be sinking men will do things you didn’t expect them to do

The ship be sinking

[Adelheid]

thibs that was a horrible thing to say

What did he say?

Thibs when asked about Kemba playing so well after sitting so long: "Well that's what he's supposed to do...

[GONYK]

He is being asked to generate the offense on a team that lacks creators way too much.

That's a myth. The only thing you need to create offense in this league is pick and roll and the fact that yet again Noel,Taj and Mitch combine for 5 shot attempts tell you that it's something we don't employ. Most of Kemba and Fourniers shots tonight were shots you'd otherwise think are heat check shots and weren't necessarily a result of multiple passes and the defense scurrying around with the same confused look we had in the 4rth. No no no no no.


THIBS can't generate offense, his SYSTEM doesn't generate offense. If anything we have
Kemba
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Randle who all can create thier own offense if you were ok watching them iso all game. What this team lacks isn't shot creators, what we lack is a dynamic system of off ball movement, passing for the sake of finding the open man, any level of misdirection. So no, it's not that Randle lacks guys who can create so he's forced to. What's happening is he and Thibs are forcing the rest of the team to stand around, watch and if they're lucky get thier own chance to make something happen with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.


Don't perpetuate that bull.

Chanel kept talking about needing more shot creators. I disagreed. Sure, we need more talent, but the biggest problem is we play like morons. You need shot makers who play well together more than shot creators.

You need the ball not to stick

[mpharris36]

kevin love and chris bosh had to just stand outside mostly once they became 3rd options. that's what randle would have to do with most teams. i guess he could be like draymond on golden state but he doesn't play defense like draymond. so now you need a center who shoots 3s and defends and two guards who are great from 3. how much work do you have to do to build around this motherf*cker ? it aint worth it.

If you have to get that creative in terms of building around someone...he probably shouldn't be built around.

What separates Draymond is he captains one of the best defenses in the NBA. Randle couldn't get even 10% to that level if he tried.

Love is probably the best comp in terms of potential on court impact as a 3rd option in terms of pts and boards and solid assists.

But Love a sniper from 3 and a great C&S guy. You don't have to consistently guard randle when he doesn't have the ball because I don't think teams fear him from deep. Why would you? He has had one year his entire career of being above league avg 3 pt shooter. We paid him to hopefully build on last year...when it looks like last year seems to be just an anomaly with his success in terms of outside shots.

Well to be fair (and I'm just speaking to how it could work, not that it's my goal) look at true #1option contracts. These guys are all making like 40mil per yr. The Nets have like 3 guys at or close to 40mil. So I guess we did indeed get what we paid for and that's why when people say build around......Julius makes a pretty average salary for a guy we all believe is really a 3rd option, probably very cost effective for a 2nd option and a steal for a primary (if he were indeed a primary). So my point is you could keep Julius and not necessarily be building around him. You could build OVER HIM, similar to how NY got Amare and then brought in Melo who was better. Or the Heat had Wade andbrought in a player better and below him in Lebron and Bosh. There doesn't need to be this mathematical order of operations.

Doesn't HAVE TO be, ideally you typically see your alpha established 1st but sometimes it's your 3rd or 2nd and when it happens like that the wind or 3rd must act like the aloha until the alpha is acquired. But hey, I'm in no mood to endorse Randle right now so again, don't take that as what I want to happen just saying it could happen.

an honest question you have to ask you self in terms of building "over him". Who is lining up to play with Julius Randle? His game isn't conducive to low usage nor does he do other little things like defense that is required to be a complimentary piece.

He has a great season last year, I fell for it...but his shot selection is ass and can easily be neutralized by a simple defensive strategy. The post season exposed this and its carried over this year.

[GONYK]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Thibs isn't the GM as the rest of that article showed, since Aller blatantly pushed back.

[Clyde_Style]

That's a myth. The only thing you need to create offense in this league is pick and roll and the fact that yet again Noel,Taj and Mitch combine for 5 shot attempts tell you that it's something we don't employ. Most of Kemba and Fourniers shots tonight were shots you'd otherwise think are heat check shots and weren't necessarily a result of multiple passes and the defense scurrying around with the same confused look we had in the 4rth. No no no no no.


THIBS can't generate offense, his SYSTEM doesn't generate offense. If anything we have
Kemba
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Randle who all can create thier own offense if you were ok watching them iso all game. What this team lacks isn't shot creators, what we lack is a dynamic system of off ball movement, passing for the sake of finding the open man, any level of misdirection. So no, it's not that Randle lacks guys who can create so he's forced to. What's happening is he and Thibs are forcing the rest of the team to stand around, watch and if they're lucky get thier own chance to make something happen with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.


Don't perpetuate that bull.

Chanel kept talking about needing more shot creators. I disagreed. Sure, we need more talent, but the biggest problem is we play like morons. You need shot makers who play well together more than shot creators.

You need the ball not to stick

Watch what happens if we play Grimes/Deuce/Obi/Mitch together. They’ll find the open man and make their shots. It’s not that complicated

[knickstape4ever]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Phil Jackson wasn't as bad in hindsight. his big blunders were Noah, Lee and how he handled the Melo situation

sure, he passed on Donovan Mitchell but so did 12 other teams

but at least he had the self-awareness to try and rebuild when he knew they couldn't contend. We can't say the same about this FO

....and he tried to KP to Boston for #3 and Brown but got nixed by Dolan

[HarthorneWingo]

The next 10-15 games are certainly going to be interesting btw COVID protocols, rosters adjustments, players getting new opportunities, the looming trade deadline. The hot stove is going to be fun. We'll see if teams can make moves. I don't recall a lot of movement at last years deadline.

[knickstape4ever]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Thibs isn't the GM as the rest of that article showed, since Aller blatantly pushed back.

goes to show that he cares more about a couple extra W's in the immediate future than the long-term

[Deeeez Knicks]

Front office made some mistakes. Let’s see if they can pivot and switch directions. Every other front office we had would dig a deeper hole, rather then acknowledge the mistakes and fix them. They probably will dig a deeper hole but you never know

[blueNorange]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Thibs isn't the GM as the rest of that article showed, since Aller blatantly pushed back.

i know, but what i'm saying is what's the point of thinking thibs will play grimes, deuce, obi more? why he'd play the knicks lotto pick if they keep trending this way when before even coaching rj/mitch wanted them traded for veterans.

this is what the knicks signed up for, someone who doesn't give a **** about the kids.

[Clyde_Style]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Phil Jackson wasn't as bad in hindsight. his big blunders were Noah, Lee and how he handled the Melo situation

sure, he passed on Donovan Mitchell but so did 12 other teams

but at least he had the self-awareness to try and rebuild when he knew they couldn't contend. We can't say the same about this FO

....and he tried to KP to Boston for #3 and Brown but got nixed by Dolan

Phil held on to our picks

Otherwise, he was mostly a disaster

His first move was hiring Derek Fisher

Then he meddled with his triangle BS with Hornacek

Phil was lazy and barely did any work. He thought analytics was a rap group