PG: Kemba Rises From the Ashes. Knicks Still Ass

[Nazrmohamed]

But $29M per year is not AVERAGE. Randle is paid a fukton of money for his abilities.

Hes making 21mil this yr, 26 next yr and 28in the 22/23 season Clyde. You are incorrect about the figures. I hate to be a stickler as if I can say hes playing well cuz he's not. But it's 30 games into his 1st yr of the contract. I doubt that it's gonna happen but it once happened. Last yr did indeed happen.

I already know how you feel about his playoff series we've already discussed this. But at the end of the day even if you knew that would happen every single yr you attempt to make him the primary option all it would prove is hes not a 1st option. It doesn't prove that......and I'll just throw a name out there... . if let's say Lillard instead were the ball dominator, took all that heat, ran the team; that last yrs version of Randle wouldn't be a decent 2nd option or excellent 3rd.

Now you can counter with his playstyle and how he needs the ball and I'll consider that, but again salary wise he's not preventing us from putting him in that scenario is what I'm saying. 21 mil is cheap for a 2nd option and only alittle expensive for a 3rd. Another way to look at it is hes putting up the raw numbers to justify his contract, but he not providing the leadership or playstyle to be a number one and if he could you'd be paying him 30per yr instead.

There's a dude talking about John Wall tonight. THATS a crazy contract.

I thought it was $117M over 4 years which averages out to $29M

Still, saying 21M is cheap for a guy who plays with so little intelligence is not something I can agree with. I don’t think he can bring you $15M in value because he is obstinately stupid about playing any other way than dominating the ball. He has regressed so greatly there’s no reconciling it any longer. He’s just terrible

Yeah well I don't have the energy nor the tools to argue against that. I'm done too. But DO NOT allow Thibs to come away unscathed in all this. Randle is who he is but Thibs enables him, maybe even encourages him to play this way. It's like the person you know is wrong and rather than even deny it he doubles down on it. Oh you don't like iso Clyde? Enjoy this iso for the next 10 plays. Choke on it.

Hes stubborn as hell with these lineups, isn't really creative at all. As we're sitting here pissed at how Randle plays Thibs probably is yelling at Randle saying things like " I run iso so you can make the fricken basket, fail me again and I'll run Iso Kemba and you can stand around watching like everyone else."

[oldshoolballer]

let's brainstorm....which teams could realistically be interested in Randle?

Beijing Ducks

[Clyde_Style]

Hes making 21mil this yr, 26 next yr and 28in the 22/23 season Clyde. You are incorrect about the figures. I hate to be a stickler as if I can say hes playing well cuz he's not. But it's 30 games into his 1st yr of the contract. I doubt that it's gonna happen but it once happened. Last yr did indeed happen.

I already know how you feel about his playoff series we've already discussed this. But at the end of the day even if you knew that would happen every single yr you attempt to make him the primary option all it would prove is hes not a 1st option. It doesn't prove that......and I'll just throw a name out there... . if let's say Lillard instead were the ball dominator, took all that heat, ran the team; that last yrs version of Randle wouldn't be a decent 2nd option or excellent 3rd.

Now you can counter with his playstyle and how he needs the ball and I'll consider that, but again salary wise he's not preventing us from putting him in that scenario is what I'm saying. 21 mil is cheap for a 2nd option and only alittle expensive for a 3rd. Another way to look at it is hes putting up the raw numbers to justify his contract, but he not providing the leadership or playstyle to be a number one and if he could you'd be paying him 30per yr instead.

There's a dude talking about John Wall tonight. THATS a crazy contract.

I thought it was $117M over 4 years which averages out to $29M

Still, saying 21M is cheap for a guy who plays with so little intelligence is not something I can agree with. I don’t think he can bring you $15M in value because he is obstinately stupid about playing any other way than dominating the ball. He has regressed so greatly there’s no reconciling it any longer. He’s just terrible

Yeah well I don't have the energy nor the tools to argue against that. I'm done too. But DO NOT allow Thibs to come away unscathed in all this. Randle is who he is but Thibs enables him, maybe even encourages him to play this way. It's like the person you know is wrong and rather than even deny it he doubles down on it. Oh you don't like iso Clyde? Enjoy this iso for the next 10 plays. Choke on it.

Hes stubborn as hell with these lineups, isn't really creative at all. As we're sitting here pissed at how Randle plays Thibs probably is yelling at Randle saying things like " I run iso so you can make the fricken basket, fail me again and I'll run Iso Kemba and you can stand around watching like everyone else."

FO is to blame for giving Randle an extension after a terrible playoffs when he still had an option year left

Thibs is to blame for his crude offensive schemes and enabling the worst aspects of Randle

Randle is sadly incapable of correcting himself so we end up disliking him when the truth is the franchise is at fault

[thebuzzardman]

Hopefully Kemba buries McBride on the bench for good!

[GONYK]

They may have been signed to be traded but they have to be playing well to be traded. Other teams see whats happening with the knicks this is a sh*t show. How many teams are knocking down the door for a Randle? A Fournier? A Noel? A Kemba?

Maybe you can sell me on a team with interest in Burks...a combo guard/wing that can score off the bench has some value. Someone would trade for Rose as well (but I don't think Thibs would sign off on dealing his guy).

If we can see that the team is better with Grimes a rookie than paying a 17 MM to Fournier then I'm sure other teams see that as well.

Who, other than Fournier, is underperforming for their contract? I'd argue nobody. Burks, Rose, Noel, Kemba are all good value contracts for their production, provided you have the right role for them.

Plus, we always talk about our players as if other players around the league aren't also playing poorly or may be bad fits in their current situation.

I keep thinking about Josh Richardson. That guy played like complete ass in Dallas, still opted out of his contract and got the same deal in Boston.

Talent on reasonable deals are hard to find and we have a few of them for teams who need role players.

Noel has been ass this year and can't stay healthy. Its not very common teams pump 10 MM into a backup center that they want to pay to play 12-14 mins off the bench.

Kemba defensively is a disaster...if he was just required to score sure. But he gives up more pts then he provides on offense.

Richardson can provide offense and he's a solid defender...that is why. guys that play on both ends maintain there value. the reason we are where we are is because we got 1-way players that unless they are scoring they aren't helping.

Teams that want a scorer off the bench can do a lot worse than Kemba for $8M.

Ditto for Noel for a contender that needs rim protection and is already over the cap.

Especially with them basically being one year deals for whoever gets them.

If you saw Richardson in Dallas last season he was terrible on both ends.

Role players are a team dependent but the players we have fit good archetypes.

If this team wants them gone, I think it could happen fairly easily.

[thebuzzardman]

He is being asked to generate the offense on a team that lacks creators way too much.

That's a myth. The only thing you need to create offense in this league is pick and roll and the fact that yet again Noel,Taj and Mitch combine for 5 shot attempts tell you that it's something we don't employ. Most of Kemba and Fourniers shots tonight were shots you'd otherwise think are heat check shots and weren't necessarily a result of multiple passes and the defense scurrying around with the same confused look we had in the 4rth. No no no no no.


THIBS can't generate offense, his SYSTEM doesn't generate offense. If anything we have
Kemba
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Randle who all can create thier own offense if you were ok watching them iso all game. What this team lacks isn't shot creators, what we lack is a dynamic system of off ball movement, passing for the sake of finding the open man, any level of misdirection. So no, it's not that Randle lacks guys who can create so he's forced to. What's happening is he and Thibs are forcing the rest of the team to stand around, watch and if they're lucky get thier own chance to make something happen with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.


Don't perpetuate that bull.

This is an excellent post. And really the purpose is not to come down on any one player but to identify the strength and weaknesses of our squad. The system is flawed and Randle is a the main cog in this system. Our strength are depth and youth.

So fixing this starts with fixing the flawed system. Do we need to immediately trade Randle to accomplish this?...I don't think so. And that's good because from a PR perspective that would be bad. But his role in the offense has to change.


Do we need to fire Thibs?....I think so...maybe not mid season but if things don't change certainly after the season ends.

Can't wait for the Knicks to turn over the head coach, half the coaching staff, the FO, half the players again within 2 or 3 years. Real recipe for success.

[HarthorneWingo]

Phil Jackson wasn't as bad in hindsight. his big blunders were Noah, Lee and how he handled the Melo situation

sure, he passed on Donovan Mitchell but so did 12 other teams

but at least he had the self-awareness to try and rebuild when he knew they couldn't contend. We can't say the same about this FO

....and he tried to KP to Boston for #3 and Brown but got nixed by Dolan

Phil held on to our picks

Otherwise, he was mostly a disaster

His first move was hiring Derek Fisher

Then he meddled with his triangle BS with Hornacek

Phil was lazy and barely did any work. He thought analytics was a rap group

Fisher wasn't a great hire, but wasn't that bad. we had no talent in 2014/15 once Melo got hut. that was the year we literally rolled out this lineup:



I personally appreciated Phil not trading picks...and if he was allowed to make that Boston deal, this franchise would look a whole lot different today

agreed that he should've let Hornacek do his thing and abandon the triangle now that the game is so perimeter oriented

SHVED!

[bearadonisdna]

Thibs system has 5 bigs, 3 pointguards , 5 wings.
Thibs can run his system with 3,2, and 3.

Getting a 4th big is a luxury . If you begging for a 5th big, 5th wing , 3rd pointguard to play …..
You are asking Thibs for remedial basketball .

These are the worst players on the team.

You don’t want a 3rd pointguard to play because he is the worst lead handler on your team. Theoretically Same thing for the 5th person in a positional group. Yes I get it, theoretically that 5th person could have a different skill set, doesn’t matter he is a worse player.

This will fall on deaf ears.
It’s really a defeatist narrative.

Now it seems like half the board wants to lose.
Philosophically that is not this franchises direction.
So don’t hook wink me or others with the losing is winning narrative.

[BKlutch]

Bol Bol would put us over the top

Bol Bol LOL LOL

[nyczlegacy]

Fire Thibs

He'd rather get his point across and bench someone instead of actually helping players improve both mindset and ability

a dog **** coach

[TheGreenArrow]

Bol Bol would put us over the top

BOL BOL folks BOL BOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Phil Jackson wasn't as bad in hindsight. his big blunders were Noah, Lee and how he handled the Melo situation

sure, he passed on Donovan Mitchell but so did 12 other teams

but at least he had the self-awareness to try and rebuild when he knew they couldn't contend. We can't say the same about this FO

....and he tried to KP to Boston for #3 and Brown but got nixed by Dolan

Phil held on to our picks

Otherwise, he was mostly a disaster

His first move was hiring Derek Fisher

Then he meddled with his triangle BS with Hornacek

Phil was lazy and barely did any work. He thought analytics was a rap group

Fisher wasn't a great hire, but wasn't that bad. we had no talent in 2014/15 once Melo got hut. that was the year we literally rolled out this lineup:



I personally appreciated Phil not trading picks...and if he was allowed to make that Boston deal, this franchise would look a whole lot different today

agreed that he should've let Hornacek do his thing and abandon the triangle now that the game is so perimeter oriented

What is scary is the current management was responsible for brininging in Bargs. We ended up full circle somehow. Nothing really changes

[Spree2Houston]

Rose had the right idea when he drafted Obi to replace Randle. Then he set this team back 5 years by bringing back Perry and letting him sign all these garbage vets

[knickstape4ever]

Rose had the right idea when he drafted Obi to replace Randle. Then he set this team back 5 years by bringing back Perry and letting him sign all these garbage vets

Rose has final say at the end of the day. don't blame this all on Perry

[knicks94]

People still watch the Knicks?

[GONYK]

article back in march 9, 2021

According to Yaron Weitzman in the New York Post, Thibodeau wanted to reshape the roster to chase wins this season. Thibodeau reportedly thought the Knicks could trade second-year wing R.J. Barrett and third-year center Mitchell Robinson for "seasoned veterans."

i fear thibs is going to torpedo the knicks phil jackson style.

Thibs isn't the GM as the rest of that article showed, since Aller blatantly pushed back.

i know, but what i'm saying is what's the point of thinking thibs will play grimes, deuce, obi more? why he'd play the knicks lotto pick if they keep trending this way when before even coaching rj/mitch wanted them traded for veterans.

this is what the knicks signed up for, someone who doesn't give a **** about the kids.

He wanted to trade Randle too.

He then proceeded to start all 3 of them and has RJ in the top 5 MPG in the league for much of the season.

I think Thibs will play whoever wins games. He's just also cognizant of the politics of managing vets.

So, in short, yes I think he'll play the kids if he vets are traded.

The only takeaway from that anecdote for me is that Thibs shouldn't be your GM.

[Enzo954]

People still watch the Knicks?

Why are you here?

[knicks94]

People still watch the Knicks?

Why are you here?

Because I am a life long Knicks fan. I just refuse to support the product that the have been by attending their games or watching them on TV.

[knicksNOTslick]

Rose had the right idea when he drafted Obi to replace Randle. Then he set this team back 5 years by bringing back Perry and letting him sign all these garbage vets

Rose has final say at the end of the day. don't blame this all on Perry

Perry is kept on as a scapegoat in case things go sideways. It's every front office's MO when working for James Dolan. Mills was last management's.

Perry sucked and there was no reason to keep him. He'll probably be the first to get fired.

[BugginOut]

People really want to fire Thibs?

Y’all know how many **** coaches we had to sit through right?