Odd Man Out From Starting Lineup?

[Indeed]

Hopefully in another week, we got everyone healthy, and we will have to decide this again.

I guess I have to say this again, and I hope I don't have to say this again.

[Ell Curry]

I wonder if it's possible in terms of chemistry and such to bring Siakam off the bench. Barnes at the 4 with more shooting around him fits, and Siakam could carry the load as a fresh, high usage player when he enters the game against 2nd units and still close games. Herro is coming off the bench and getting 32 minutes, so Siakam could probably squeeze up to 33 or 34 you'd figure, which is starter minutes.

[Indeed]

I wonder if it's possible in terms of chemistry and such to bring Siakam off the bench. Barnes at the 4 with more shooting around him fits, and Siakam could carry the load as a fresh, high usage player when he enters the game against 2nd units and still close games. Herro is coming off the bench and getting 32 minutes, so Siakam could probably squeeze up to 33 or 34 you'd figure, which is starter minutes.

I wouldn't take last game seriously.
Same for the Sacramento game, where everyone looked good.

[Madhouse]

Funny that the majority has Barnes off the bench. That's not happening with the minutes he is logging.

[Raps1103]

I wonder if it's possible in terms of chemistry and such to bring Siakam off the bench. Barnes at the 4 with more shooting around him fits, and Siakam could carry the load as a fresh, high usage player when he enters the game against 2nd units and still close games. Herro is coming off the bench and getting 32 minutes, so Siakam could probably squeeze up to 33 or 34 you'd figure, which is starter minutes.

[Ell Curry]

I wonder if it's possible in terms of chemistry and such to bring Siakam off the bench. Barnes at the 4 with more shooting around him fits, and Siakam could carry the load as a fresh, high usage player when he enters the game against 2nd units and still close games. Herro is coming off the bench and getting 32 minutes, so Siakam could probably squeeze up to 33 or 34 you'd figure, which is starter minutes.

I wouldn't take last game seriously.
Same for the Sacramento game, where everyone looked good.

Yeah, I think first choice is hope we can overwhelm teams with the smallball lineup, but our bench is terrible and Siakam anchoring it seems a lot likelier to fix it than Trent moving to it. Ginobili did it for the same reason and he was certainly a better player than Pascal is. But it wouldn't shock me if starting Birch and making Siakam a 6th man who closes games is actually the best way for us to eke out a spot in the good play-in game and not the bad play-in game.

The other obvious option if we're really trying to get in the playoffs is to hopefully turn Dragic's contract and a 2nd rounder into a microwave bench type guy and hope we find the next Jordan Clarkson type guy.

Ultimately, development matters most and seeing if Siakam-Barnes-OG can play well as a frontcourt or if they should be at the 4-3-2 with a proper center or if Siakam should be dealt are all more crucial issues than us finishing 7th vs 9th, but in terms of purely winning games, moving a high usage guy to be a 6th man who closes games is a fairly common move, and Siakam fits the bill better than Trent, and I don't see Barnes, OG or Van Vleet doing it, though Barnes being a rookie and seemingly the most congenial fella around means if we do try to start Birch again it might be him.

This whole debate might be a bigger one in 2 years since our path to contention might well be a traditional lineup with us having great wing depth with Barnes, Siakam, OG and Trent playing virtually all the minutes at PF, SF and SG (if they're at 34 each that leaves about 10 for Banton), Van Vleet backed up by a proper guard for 12-15 minutes a night and our 2022 draft pick or a traded player using that pick starting at the 5 with Achiuwa backing him him up for 15-20.

Or maybe we're all in on 4-5 wings on the court being the future and we'll draft someone like Kendall Brown or Keegan Murray and Banton will develop into a starting quality one too and who the hell knows.

[Rokutime]

I wonder if it's possible in terms of chemistry and such to bring Siakam off the bench. Barnes at the 4 with more shooting around him fits, and Siakam could carry the load as a fresh, high usage player when he enters the game against 2nd units and still close games. Herro is coming off the bench and getting 32 minutes, so Siakam could probably squeeze up to 33 or 34 you'd figure, which is starter minutes.

I wouldn't take last game seriously.
Same for the Sacramento game, where everyone looked good.

Yeah, I think first choice is hope we can overwhelm teams with the smallball lineup, but our bench is terrible and Siakam anchoring it seems a lot likelier to fix it than Trent moving to it. Ginobili did it for the same reason and he was certainly a better player than Pascal is. But it wouldn't shock me if starting Birch and making Siakam a 6th man who closes games is actually the best way for us to eke out a spot in the good play-in game and not the bad play-in game.

The other obvious option if we're really trying to get in the playoffs is to hopefully turn Dragic's contract and a 2nd rounder into a microwave bench type guy and hope we find the next Jordan Clarkson type guy.

Ultimately, development matters most and seeing if Siakam-Barnes-OG can play well as a frontcourt or if they should be at the 4-3-2 with a proper center or if Siakam should be dealt are all more crucial issues than us finishing 7th vs 9th, but in terms of purely winning games, moving a high usage guy to be a 6th man who closes games is a fairly common move, and Siakam fits the bill better than Trent, and I don't see Barnes, OG or Van Vleet doing it, though Barnes being a rookie and seemingly the most congenial fella around means if we do try to start Birch again it might be him.

This whole debate might be a bigger one in 2 years since our path to contention might well be a traditional lineup with us having great wing depth with Barnes, Siakam, OG and Trent playing virtually all the minutes at PF, SF and SG (if they're at 34 each that leaves about 10 for Banton), Van Vleet backed up by a proper guard for 12-15 minutes a night and our 2022 draft pick or a traded player using that pick starting at the 5 with Achiuwa backing him him up for 15-20.

Or maybe we're all in on 4-5 wings on the court being the future and we'll draft someone like Kendall Brown or Keegan Murray and Banton will develop into a starting quality one too and who the hell knows.

No (smart) team would pay max dollars for a bench player. A health Raptors team actually has good depth at every position to where we're debating Barnes vs Pascal vs Gary Trent coming off the bench. It should also be noted that the bench is 19th in +/- and 18th in win %. The total bench points is a misleading stat that doesn't account for the points by a starter playing with the bench.

Barnes coming off the bench might be best for his development. Defensively, I think a lineup of Banton, Barnes and Yuta is more effective than the starters and on offense, Barnes will have the freedom to play like a point forward. Playing alongside FVV and Pascal as a starter basically relegates him to an afterthought in the offense with those guys taking turn iso-ing on every play.

The Raps need to figure out what to do with the roster. You have a bunch of really solid guys but no superstar. It could end up working like the 2013 Spurs but you'd need good ball movement which the Raptors lack.

[goinrogue]

Trade pascal is the answer.

[NBA Sheady]

If this poll was re-run I suspect Scottie gets fewer votes. He has really tightened things up. The rate at which he learns and improves is something i don't remember seeing from any other young player.

[Kingsway_fan]

yeah, these polls are point in time commentary only, especially so soon in the season..

perhaps by next week we will find out .. my guess is Trent...

[Parataxis]

I think you start FVV/OG/SB/PS/Birch, and then let GTJ absolutely feast off the opposition bench.

Gives us a balanced lineup, and lets GTJ lead the bench mob.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Putting Scottie on the bench isn't gonna solve the scoring issues we have with the second unit (rank 29th)

I also want to see us play big with Fred/OG/Barnes/Pascal/Birch. GTJ can come in and light it up win any combination of the starters.

The 29th ranked bench is an inflated/deflated number. Once we are healthy, the bench production will no doubt increase regardless of who goes to the bench.

I think Scotty's development gets stunted if he goes to the bench. Right now he just needs to learn about being the number 2 or 3 player on the team. We need to reward his patience for, at many times, being the best player on the floor, while not getting the volume of shots he should.

[HomieOmey]

I guess Barnes for now, but ideally one or both of the Birch/GTJ spots will be upgraded, so would happily move either right now.

[Dennis 37]

I think you start FVV/OG/SB/PS/Birch, and then let GTJ absolutely feast off the opposition bench.

Gives us a balanced lineup, and lets GTJ lead the bench mob.

Management knows GTJ more than I do, but the man has a 2 year contract. He will be looking for a payday one year from June, or he opts out. Is he less likely to re-sign as a bench player or a starter? If we don't trade one of Pascal or OG, there is no path for GTJ to become a starter on this team.

If he had a 4 year contract, I'd say yes, play him with the bench.

[Parataxis]

I think you start FVV/OG/SB/PS/Birch, and then let GTJ absolutely feast off the opposition bench.

Gives us a balanced lineup, and lets GTJ lead the bench mob.

Management knows GTJ more than I do, but the man has a 2 year contract. He will be looking for a payday one year from June, or he opts out. Is he less likely to re-sign as a bench player or a starter? If we don't trade one of Pascal or OG, there is no path for GTJ to become a starter on this team.

If he had a 4 year contract, I'd say yes, play him with the bench.

See, I'm looking at the same reasoning, but getting the opposite results. He's only here for another year and a half, most likely. His path to being a permanent starter is blocked by players on longer term contracts. Given that, I'd much rather develop Barnes and get him experience starting, than put GTJ in the starting lineup permanently at Barnes's expense.

If he had a four year contract, and was a more certain part of our core going forward, then I'd be more pliant on putting him as a permanent starter.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Ultimately, one of the short guards are probably offered up for trade.

Like, the FVV/GTJ combo could just as easily become Banton/GTJ and we would probably get better long term.

[Tor_Raps]

Putting Scottie on the bench isn't gonna solve the scoring issues we have with the second unit (rank 29th)

I also want to see us play big with Fred/OG/Barnes/Pascal/Birch. GTJ can come in and light it up win any combination of the starters.

The 29th ranked bench is an inflated/deflated number. Once we are healthy, the bench production will no doubt increase regardless of who goes to the bench.

I think Scotty's development gets stunted if he goes to the bench. Right now he just needs to learn about being the number 2 or 3 player on the team. We need to reward his patience for, at many times, being the best player on the floor, while not getting the volume of shots he should.

Not really. You realize almost every team in the NBA has dealt with injuries/covid situations too right?

The injury excuse for us is weak. They're just not that talented and/or experienced right now.

[Tor_Raps]

Sadly I think we'll use Siakam at Center but I think the answer should be Trent.

I want to see if a lineup of OG/Barnes/Siakam at the 2/3/4 has a chance to work. Only way to know that is giving them some run to get accustomed.

[Basketball_Jones]

I don’t think it matters too much this season. Ultimately the decision will be made in the off-season. There’s merit for Barnes starting or coming off the bench. I prefer him to have as much time with OG/Fred/Siakam as possible. Off the bench in theory he’ll have more usage but with some place holder players we don’t really care about for developing chemistry long term.

[tecumseh18]

I originally voted for Barnes, but that seems stupid now. He's our best player. Obviously it has to be Trent - i.e. the lowest salaried non-C of the current starters.