Kendall Brown

[Coeur]

3-6 best player in the class. Really like him for the Nugs but have given up on him lasting till the teens. Can’t imagine him not being a top 10 pick.

[Hal14]

Aaron Gordon made plays in college. If you look they actually have almost exactly the same A:TO ratio and AST rates. I think he's just straight up Aaron Gordon (slightly smaller), no need to add "with playmaking". We're probably not talking Andre Iguodala here.

Everyone is thinking about Aaron Gordon like 7-8 years into his NBA career. You have to remember AG was an absolute athletic phenom in his younger day. He was a Bay Area legend, probably second only in hype to Jason Kidd in my lifetime. Dude had 54 dunks in his Freshman year at Arizona. KB is at 17. Will be interesting to see if he tops AG.

I can see the Gordon comparison for sure. But I feel like Gordon is more of a 4 and Brown is more of a 3.

I think Brown (in terms of size and the way he plays) is closer to a Scottie Pippen/Shawn Marion type guy.

[XTC]

Kendall Brown is the Scottie Barnes of this draft class. He has the vision, passing, and natural feel for the game... he's being used in an off ball role, so many of his skills are being hidden.

Kid is going to fill in thr stat sheets at the next level. He should go top 5.

[Duke4life831]

Doesnt get into the defensive box scores as much as Id like him too. But his functional athleticism is just insane.

Watch on YouTube

The entire Oregon game was just him showing off his athleticism. In a draft like this one (not the strongest at the top), Im cool with taking the risk on him top 5. Im not sure I buy the 6'8 height, I do think he is closer to 6'6-6'7. But ya he doesnt look like he has short arms, I can buy the 6'11 wingspan.

Again I wish he was more in the box score on the defensive end. I would like a bigger assurance that he would be a high impact defender early on. I can see an Okoro kind of risk with taking him high. But I do think he is the better athlete and ya Im cool with taking the risk on him, especially in this draft. 6'7-6'8ish with elite athleticism and his head screwed on tight, ya Im cool with risking a top 5 pick on him.

[clyde21]

hes way better than Okoro, should be top5 lock in this class.

[Ruzious]

He should be a top 5 pick, imo. The best is yet to come. We've just seen the beginning of his play-making for teammates and 3 point shooting. It looks like he has a second level of leaping when he needs it - not sure I've seen that since David Thompson, and he's at least 4 inches taller than Thompson. I mean... he's made 74% of his 2's - no non-bigs do that... none except him. And he's an all-around player.

Watch on YouTube

;t=4s

[BlazersBroncos]

I see some Marion in his game. Easy top-5 pick for me.

[Hal14]

I see some Marion in his game. Easy top-5 pick for me.

Exactly.

Marion and Scottie Pippen are the closest comparisons I see. Marion being more realistic comparison - probably unfair to comp him to Pippen who's a top 5 non-center defender ever and likely top 25 player of all time..but even if Brown is a lesser Pippen that's still a damn good player.

[jezzerinho]

Aaron Gordon made plays in college. If you look they actually have almost exactly the same A:TO ratio and AST rates. I think he's just straight up Aaron Gordon (slightly smaller), no need to add "with playmaking". We're probably not talking Andre Iguodala here.

Everyone is thinking about Aaron Gordon like 7-8 years into his NBA career. You have to remember AG was an absolute athletic phenom in his younger day. He was a Bay Area legend, probably second only in hype to Jason Kidd in my lifetime. Dude had 54 dunks in his Freshman year at Arizona. KB is at 17. Will be interesting to see if he tops AG.

As an Orlando fan, I can tell you that, when he was drafted AG never had the BBIQ, the handle or the shooting touch that Brown has shown, albeit in a limited sample size.

I'm not sure how much that means for Brown - to be better than 18-y.o. Gordon at those things isn't setting the bar massively high and Brown hasn't played any serious opponents yet. But what i will say is that Brown's toolbox is more extensive than AG's and Brown looks to me more of a team player so far. AG could never develop properly in Orl because he refused to accept his limitations and play within the team structure. He had to be
the star SF with the dribble drive game and the flashy pull-up arsenal, even tho he had none of those. Brown looks more like a guy who will play within a system to my eyes.

[Ruzious]

Kendall Brown is the Scottie Barnes of this draft class. He has the vision, passing, and natural feel for the game... he's being used in an off ball role, so many of his skills are being hidden.

Kid is going to fill in thr stat sheets at the next level. He should go top 5.

I think this is a very good point - we've just begun to see what he can do. I'd like to see what he can do with them running their offense through him.

[jezzerinho]

Stylistically and defence-wise, I see Brown as a big SG moreso than a SF. I highly doubt the touted 6'8" too. Thoughts?

[Duke4life831]

Kendall Brown is the Scottie Barnes of this draft class. He has the vision, passing, and natural feel for the game... he's being used in an off ball role, so many of his skills are being hidden.

Kid is going to fill in thr stat sheets at the next level. He should go top 5.

Are they being hidden? Or have those skills just not translated to the next level? He wasn't a fantastic facilitator and playmaker in high school, he was solid but not great. So it wouldnt be shocking if those skills just didnt translate to the next level. Perimeter and playmaking skills seem to be a skillset that is pretty hard to judge for these bigger guys when it comes to high school to the next level. I know he showed out against Nicholls State, but that is Nicholls State.

Over the last 7 games he is averaging just 0.4 assists per game. I get he is being put into that off ball dunker/high energy role, but maybe he is being put into that role for a reason. Scott Drew is a good coach, so I dont see Drew as a guy just completely blowing this.

Also dont get me wrong I have Brown locked in as a top 5 pick at the moment. But with that said these are his numbers the last 7 games

12/3 with 0.4 assists, 0.7 steals, and not a single block.

Even just being asked to play off ball, that is still a shockingly lack of production in the box sheet.

[Madhouse]

He is special.

[Hal14]

Kendall Brown is the Scottie Barnes of this draft class. He has the vision, passing, and natural feel for the game... he's being used in an off ball role, so many of his skills are being hidden.

Kid is going to fill in thr stat sheets at the next level. He should go top 5.

Are they being hidden? Or have those skills just not translated to the next level? He wasn't a fantastic facilitator and playmaker in high school

Eh, not sure how much HS footage you saw of Brown, but I saw quite a bit and IMO his passing was as good as any non-PG in the 2021 HS class.

From the HS footage I saw, the 3 traits that jumped out at me the most about Brown (in no order) were

-Insane explosiveness/athleticism, run/jump guy
-passing/feel/vision/unselfishness
-off ball defense where he really hustles, stays engaged, shows great length/speed/anticipation to jump passing lanes for steals off the ball which he converts into highlight reel dunks on the other end

Here's some clips of really good passing in HS:

2:42 and 3:06 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

7:22 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

2:39 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

8:08 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

[Ruzious]

Stylistically and defence-wise, I see Brown as a big SG moreso than a SF. I highly doubt the touted 6'8" too. Thoughts?

I'm not sure it matters, because he might have the highest max vertical in basketball. I'm worried that he's going to hit his head hard on the backboard at some point. He's just 18, so even if he is "just" 6'7, he could easily grow another inch.

[Hal14]

Stylistically and defence-wise, I see Brown as a big SG moreso than a SF. I highly doubt the touted 6'8" too. Thoughts?

I'm not sure it matters, because he might have the highest max vertical in basketball. I'm worried that he's going to hit his head hard on the backboard at some point. He's just 18, so even if he is "just" 6'7, he could easily grow another inch.

yeah he's either 6'7" or 6'8". listed at a 6'11" wingspan and like you said, insane vertical leap that's clearly over 40"

[Duke4life831]

Kendall Brown is the Scottie Barnes of this draft class. He has the vision, passing, and natural feel for the game... he's being used in an off ball role, so many of his skills are being hidden.

Kid is going to fill in thr stat sheets at the next level. He should go top 5.

Are they being hidden? Or have those skills just not translated to the next level? He wasn't a fantastic facilitator and playmaker in high school

Eh, not sure how much HS footage you saw of Brown, but I saw quite a bit and IMO his passing was as good as any non-PG in the 2021 HS class.

From the HS footage I saw, the 3 traits that jumped out at me the most about Brown (in no order) were

-Insane explosiveness/athleticism, run/jump guy
-passing/feel/vision/unselfishness
-off ball defense where he really hustles, stays engaged, shows great length/speed/anticipation to jump passing lanes for steals off the ball which he converts into highlight reel dunks on the other end

Here's some clips of really good passing in HS:

2:42 and 3:06 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

7:22 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

2:39 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

8:08 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

Ive been very aware of Brown for awhile. This isnt just a Kendall Brown thing. I have brought this up many times, perimeter skills and playmaking skills dont always translate well, especially for non PGs. Cam Reddish played PG in high school, people really pumped up his ability to run an offense and play make. We haven't seen anything close to that since his high school days. People were pumping up Paolo's perimeter skills and playmaking coming into the year, he has had opportunities and has looked really bad in those opportunities. Just because there are some highlights doesnt mean that is a clear high point of their skill set. Look at Duren talks prior to the season and people pointing to highlight videos of him passing. Now look at him so far.

I believe he averaged less than 2 assists per game in high school. It was awhile back when I looked that up, but I believe it was under 2 a game. His playmaking wasn't a big aspect of his game. And to be clear Im not saying he has no potential in that area of his game. What Im saying is there is a good chance that area of his game isnt good enough to be taking advantage at the college level at the moment. Im sure if Scott Drew felt more confident in Brown's ability to handle and play make, he would be taking advantage of that, Drew is a good coach.

Again not saying he doesnt have potential in those areas, I think he does which is why I think he is a lock for the top 5. But I also dont think he has some hidden skills that arent being taken advantage of at the moment. I think he showed flashes of playmaking in high school, but wasn't great at it and those skills haven't quite translated against better college opposition. Still has the potential there but its not there at the moment most likely.

[Hal14]

Are they being hidden? Or have those skills just not translated to the next level? He wasn't a fantastic facilitator and playmaker in high school

Eh, not sure how much HS footage you saw of Brown, but I saw quite a bit and IMO his passing was as good as any non-PG in the 2021 HS class.

From the HS footage I saw, the 3 traits that jumped out at me the most about Brown (in no order) were

-Insane explosiveness/athleticism, run/jump guy
-passing/feel/vision/unselfishness
-off ball defense where he really hustles, stays engaged, shows great length/speed/anticipation to jump passing lanes for steals off the ball which he converts into highlight reel dunks on the other end

Here's some clips of really good passing in HS:

2:42 and 3:06 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

7:22 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

2:39 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

8:08 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

Ive been very aware of Brown for awhile. This isnt just a Kendall Brown thing. I have brought this up many times, perimeter skills and playmaking skills dont always translate well, especially for non PGs. Cam Reddish played PG in high school, people really pumped up his ability to run an offense and play make. We haven't seen anything close to that since his high school days. People were pumping up Paolo's perimeter skills and playmaking coming into the year, he has had opportunities and has looked really bad in those opportunities. Just because there are some highlights doesnt mean that is a clear high point of their skill set. Look at Duren talks prior to the season and people pointing to highlight videos of him passing. Now look at him so far.

I believe he averaged less than 2 assists per game in high school. It was awhile back when I looked that up, but I believe it was under 2 a game. His playmaking wasn't a big aspect of his game. And to be clear Im not saying he has no potential in that area of his game. What Im saying is there is a good chance that area of his game isnt good enough to be taking advantage at the college level at the moment. Im sure if Scott Drew felt more confident in Brown's ability to handle and play make, he would be taking advantage of that, Drew is a good coach.

Again not saying he doesnt have potential in those areas, I think he does which is why I think he is a lock for the top 5. But I also dont think he has some hidden skills that arent being taken advantage of at the moment. I think he showed flashes of playmaking in high school, but wasn't great at it and those skills haven't quite translated against better college opposition. Still has the potential there but its not there at the moment most likely.

1) not sure where you getting those numbers from - I haven't seen a reliable/accurate source for HS stats. Also, HS games are only 32 mins so counting stats will obviously be lower - especially on a team like Brown was on that was loaded with D1 talent so stats will be distributed more across the team and it's cast of stars - on a team like that no one is gonna have high assist totals other than Chandler.

So while the assist totals might not be super high, what is clear (not just in highlights but in actual raw game footage) was Brown's feel for the game, instincts, vision and unselfishness. as a passer) maybe not in super high quantity, but absolutely evident in quality. Remember, Brown has mainly been used as a finisher rather than a creator..not because he can't create but because he played with Chandler in HS, Akinjo in college and Brown is one of the best finishers in the country (both in HS and in college)

2) Brown had 10 assists in a single game in college. Not bad considering he's only played in 11 games.

Again, my main point was that compared to the other non-PGs in the 2021 HS class, Brown was as good a passer as any of them.

Let's look at the assist and usage numbers of some non-PG's who mostly play off the ball during their freshman year:
Kendall Brown = 12.7% assist on 20% usage
Caleb Houstan = 7.8% assist on 18.1% usage
Max Christie = 9.2% assist on 18.1% usage
Bryce McGowens = 10.8% assist on 25% usage
Bennedict mathurin = 9.2% assist rate on 19.6% usage
Moses Moody = 8.2% assist on 22.3% usage
Johnny Davis = 9.3% assist rate on 17.9% usage
Chet Holmgren = 15.6% assist rate on 22.7% usage
Paolo Banchero = 12.8% assist rate on 28% usage
Jabari Smith = 16% assist rate on 27% usage rate
Harrison Ingram = 22.7% assist rate on 22.5% usage

Clearly, I underestimated Ingram's passing ability. Clearly (at least so far on a smalls ample of games) he's the best passing non-PG in this group. But to be fair, he does actually initiate the offense quite a bit, and Stanford doesn't really have any good PGs (Baylor does) so he almost isn't relevant to include in this group..

Outside of Ingram, the next 3 with the most impressive assist to usage rates are Chet, Brown and Jabari.

[Duke4life831]

Eh, not sure how much HS footage you saw of Brown, but I saw quite a bit and IMO his passing was as good as any non-PG in the 2021 HS class.

From the HS footage I saw, the 3 traits that jumped out at me the most about Brown (in no order) were

-Insane explosiveness/athleticism, run/jump guy
-passing/feel/vision/unselfishness
-off ball defense where he really hustles, stays engaged, shows great length/speed/anticipation to jump passing lanes for steals off the ball which he converts into highlight reel dunks on the other end

Here's some clips of really good passing in HS:

2:42 and 3:06 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

7:22 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

2:39 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

8:08 mark of this video:

Watch on YouTube

Ive been very aware of Brown for awhile. This isnt just a Kendall Brown thing. I have brought this up many times, perimeter skills and playmaking skills dont always translate well, especially for non PGs. Cam Reddish played PG in high school, people really pumped up his ability to run an offense and play make. We haven't seen anything close to that since his high school days. People were pumping up Paolo's perimeter skills and playmaking coming into the year, he has had opportunities and has looked really bad in those opportunities. Just because there are some highlights doesnt mean that is a clear high point of their skill set. Look at Duren talks prior to the season and people pointing to highlight videos of him passing. Now look at him so far.

I believe he averaged less than 2 assists per game in high school. It was awhile back when I looked that up, but I believe it was under 2 a game. His playmaking wasn't a big aspect of his game. And to be clear Im not saying he has no potential in that area of his game. What Im saying is there is a good chance that area of his game isnt good enough to be taking advantage at the college level at the moment. Im sure if Scott Drew felt more confident in Brown's ability to handle and play make, he would be taking advantage of that, Drew is a good coach.

Again not saying he doesnt have potential in those areas, I think he does which is why I think he is a lock for the top 5. But I also dont think he has some hidden skills that arent being taken advantage of at the moment. I think he showed flashes of playmaking in high school, but wasn't great at it and those skills haven't quite translated against better college opposition. Still has the potential there but its not there at the moment most likely.

1) not sure where you getting those numbers from - I haven't seen a reliable/accurate source for HS stats. Also, HS games are only 32 mins so counting stats will obviously be lower - especially on a team like Brown was on that was loaded with D1 talent so stats will be distributed more across the team and it's cast of stars - on a team like that no one is gonna have high assist totals other than Chandler.

So while the assist totals might not be super high, what is clear (not just in highlights but in actual raw game footage) was Brown's feel for the game, instincts, vision and unselfishness. as a passer) maybe not in super high quantity, but absolutely evident in quality. Remember, Brown has mainly been used as a finisher rather than a creator..not because he can't create but because he played with Chandler in HS, Akinjo in college and Brown is one of the best finishers in the country (both in HS and in college)

2) Brown had 10 assists in a single game in college. Not bad considering he's only played in 11 games.

Again, my main point was that compared to the other non-PGs in the 2021 HS class, Brown was as good a passer as any of them.

Let's look at the assist and usage numbers of some non-PG's who mostly play off the ball during their freshman year:
Kendall Brown = 12.7% assist on 20% usage
Caleb Houstan = 7.8% assist on 18.1% usage
Max Christie = 9.2% assist on 18.1% usage
Bryce McGowens = 10.8% assist on 25% usage
Bennedict mathurin = 9.2% assist rate on 19.6% usage
Moses Moody = 8.2% assist on 22.3% usage
Johnny Davis = 9.3% assist rate on 17.9% usage
Chet Holmgren = 15.6% assist rate on 22.7% usage
Paolo Banchero = 12.8% assist rate on 28% usage
Jabari Smith = 16% assist rate on 27% usage rate
Harrison Ingram = 22.7% assist rate on 22.5% usage

Clearly, I underestimated Ingram's passing ability. Clearly (at least so far on a smalls ample of games) he's the best passing non-PG in this group. But to be fair, he does actually initiate the offense quite a bit, and Stanford doesn't really have any good PGs (Baylor does) so he almost isn't relevant to include in this group..

Outside of Ingram, the next 3 with the most impressive assist to usage rates are Chet, Brown and Jabari.

I believe I got those stats straight from the high school. But your first point is proving my point. I understand who he played high school ball with, this is one of the reasons I actually followed Brown in high school pretty well. Duke was recruiting Kennedy Chandler really hard. But all that backs up my point because again my point has been, yes I agree Brown has shown potential and flashes with his ability to make plays. But that has never been a major aspect of his game yet. Its one thing to show flashes, its one thing to be handed that role and succeed consistently in it.

Like I said in my original post, I know he showed out against Nicholls State, but again that is Nicholls State. This is one of the reasons why advanced numbers in college can be pretty useless, especially early on. That one game drastically bumps up his assist numbers.

Id be unbelievably hypocritical if I were to praise Brown on that game just because I like him as a prospect. While I completely ignore someone like Duren when he puts up monster numbers against a Western Kentucky. Nicholls State starts 4 guys 6'4 or under.

Again I like Brown, but take away his Nicholls State games and we would be looking at a stat line of

13/2.9/0.8 with 1 steal and 1 block (1 block total)

Over half his assists have come from that Nicholls State game. I assume his AST% would take a pretty big hit.

Again I really like Brown as a prospect. I have him in my top 5. I agree that he has potential as a playmaker. But just because he has shown flashes of it, Im not willing to put it as one of his big time pros. Lots of players show flashes of something but it never becomes a major aspect of their game.

[Hal14]

Ive been very aware of Brown for awhile. This isnt just a Kendall Brown thing. I have brought this up many times, perimeter skills and playmaking skills dont always translate well, especially for non PGs. Cam Reddish played PG in high school, people really pumped up his ability to run an offense and play make. We haven't seen anything close to that since his high school days. People were pumping up Paolo's perimeter skills and playmaking coming into the year, he has had opportunities and has looked really bad in those opportunities. Just because there are some highlights doesnt mean that is a clear high point of their skill set. Look at Duren talks prior to the season and people pointing to highlight videos of him passing. Now look at him so far.

I believe he averaged less than 2 assists per game in high school. It was awhile back when I looked that up, but I believe it was under 2 a game. His playmaking wasn't a big aspect of his game. And to be clear Im not saying he has no potential in that area of his game. What Im saying is there is a good chance that area of his game isnt good enough to be taking advantage at the college level at the moment. Im sure if Scott Drew felt more confident in Brown's ability to handle and play make, he would be taking advantage of that, Drew is a good coach.

Again not saying he doesnt have potential in those areas, I think he does which is why I think he is a lock for the top 5. But I also dont think he has some hidden skills that arent being taken advantage of at the moment. I think he showed flashes of playmaking in high school, but wasn't great at it and those skills haven't quite translated against better college opposition. Still has the potential there but its not there at the moment most likely.

1) not sure where you getting those numbers from - I haven't seen a reliable/accurate source for HS stats. Also, HS games are only 32 mins so counting stats will obviously be lower - especially on a team like Brown was on that was loaded with D1 talent so stats will be distributed more across the team and it's cast of stars - on a team like that no one is gonna have high assist totals other than Chandler.

So while the assist totals might not be super high, what is clear (not just in highlights but in actual raw game footage) was Brown's feel for the game, instincts, vision and unselfishness. as a passer) maybe not in super high quantity, but absolutely evident in quality. Remember, Brown has mainly been used as a finisher rather than a creator..not because he can't create but because he played with Chandler in HS, Akinjo in college and Brown is one of the best finishers in the country (both in HS and in college)

2) Brown had 10 assists in a single game in college. Not bad considering he's only played in 11 games.

Again, my main point was that compared to the other non-PGs in the 2021 HS class, Brown was as good a passer as any of them.

Let's look at the assist and usage numbers of some non-PG's who mostly play off the ball during their freshman year:
Kendall Brown = 12.7% assist on 20% usage
Caleb Houstan = 7.8% assist on 18.1% usage
Max Christie = 9.2% assist on 18.1% usage
Bryce McGowens = 10.8% assist on 25% usage
Bennedict mathurin = 9.2% assist rate on 19.6% usage
Moses Moody = 8.2% assist on 22.3% usage
Johnny Davis = 9.3% assist rate on 17.9% usage
Chet Holmgren = 15.6% assist rate on 22.7% usage
Paolo Banchero = 12.8% assist rate on 28% usage
Jabari Smith = 16% assist rate on 27% usage rate
Harrison Ingram = 22.7% assist rate on 22.5% usage

Clearly, I underestimated Ingram's passing ability. Clearly (at least so far on a smalls ample of games) he's the best passing non-PG in this group. But to be fair, he does actually initiate the offense quite a bit, and Stanford doesn't really have any good PGs (Baylor does) so he almost isn't relevant to include in this group..

Outside of Ingram, the next 3 with the most impressive assist to usage rates are Chet, Brown and Jabari.

I believe I got those stats straight from the high school. But your first point is proving my point. I understand who he played high school ball with, this is one of the reasons I actually followed Brown in high school pretty well. Duke was recruiting Kennedy Chandler really hard. But all that backs up my point because again my point has been, yes I agree Brown has shown potential and flashes with his ability to make plays. But that has never been a major aspect of his game yet. Its one thing to show flashes, its one thing to be handed that role and succeed consistently in it.

Like I said in my original post, I know he showed out against Nicholls State, but again that is Nicholls State. This is one of the reasons why advanced numbers in college can be pretty useless, especially early on. That one game drastically bumps up his assist numbers.

Id be unbelievably hypocritical if I were to praise Brown on that game just because I like him as a prospect. While I completely ignore someone like Duren when he puts up monster numbers against a Western Kentucky. Nicholls State starts 4 guys 6'4 or under.

Again I like Brown, but take away his Nicholls State games and we would be looking at a stat line of

13/2.9/0.8 with 1 steal and 1 block (1 block total)

Over half his assists have come from that Nicholls State game. I assume his AST% would take a pretty big hit.

Again I really like Brown as a prospect. I have him in my top 5. I agree that he has potential as a playmaker. But just because he has shown flashes of it, Im not willing to put it as one of his big time pros. Lots of players show flashes of something but it never becomes a major aspect of their game.

1) ok, whatever we don't have to keep going back and forth on such a minor point. It doesn't have to be like the Alperen Sengun thread, with 20 pages about how tall he is. You don't think Brown is a good passer, and I do. We can leave it at that.

2) Not sure why you would remove the Nicholls State game. They're 8-5 on the season - that's respectable. They only lost by 12 to undefeated LSU.