Bulls Covid related stuff: Everyone out but Caruso who just entered

[JohnnyTapwater]

They might as well let us get this easy win vs. the Raptors since they made us play with a skeleton crew.

[Ctownbulls]

They should postpone tomorrows game too.

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[FriedRise]

We're tracking flights now??

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[StunnerKO]

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[umfan83]

Good thing we are getting COVID players back since we are starting to lose guys with injuries now.

[FriedRise]

Omnicron Zach is ready to go!

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[sco]

I saw KC with a post that TBJ is out of protocol and in cardio testing.

[MalagaBulls]

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[jnrjr79]

Right now I think we're all hoping that Omicron does end up as mild as the initial data out of South Africa and other places suggests.

Note that while the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron - with the potential exception of a person who was *recently* boosted with the Moderna booster - Omicron looks mild without any vaccine protection. South Africa is about 26% vaccinated, ahead of the US in Omicron by a month or so, and yet has not had a surge in mortality.

And also, just because the vaccine doesn't provoke a high immediate antibody response does not mean that they don't help other immune-mechanisms, like T-cell immunity. Although that's also unclear. In fact, there's some data out there to suggest that vaccinated may be more at risk for catching Omicron and getting (mildly) sick from it (by prompting a "mismatched" response to Omicron that isn't very effective - i.e., "vaccine induced enhancement"). But that's all very speculative.

Moderna just released a finding that a booster spikes antibodies to Covid by 37%. There was no word of how long that spike lasts, and they also are not sure what means on a clinical level, but obviously the hope is that it will prevent you from getting infected in the first place, or if you do, the case will be even milder.

There is also the thought to increase their booster to double the current level, which could boost antibodies even more. Apparently that is a decision public health officials will need to make.

FYI, a happy correction here: a Moderna booster doesn't raise antibodies 37%, it raises them 37 times, i.e. 3700%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/moderna-says-booster-of-its-covid-vaccine-appears-to-protect-against-omicron.html

Pfizer's booster raises antibodies by 25x.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-omicron-is-moderna-or-pfizer-performing-better-heres-the-data-so-far/2711734/

I'm not sure what MGB8 meant when he said that "the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron." This is obviously not true and also leaves out that vaccines provide protection beyond antibodies, like T-cells, which should be more durable than antibodies.

[madvillian]

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Well Commish it would have made a helluva lot more sense to have said that weeks ago and to have made the roster adjustments then. I'm pretty down on Silver overall he's not handled COVID well and even the Bubble, in hindsight, seems a questionable decision given the toll it took on the players' mental health.

[jordanwilliams6]

It's basically a free win tomorrow if the game somehow goes ahead. Raptors literally have 2 normal rotation players available in OG & Boucher.

Lonzo will undoubtedly be in the protocols by the end of week. AC might be safe if he stays isolated whilst injured.

[gf2020hotmail]

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Well Commish it would have made a helluva lot more sense to have said that weeks ago and to have made the roster adjustments then. I'm pretty down on Silver overall he's not handled COVID well and even the Bubble, in hindsight, seems a questionable decision given the toll it took on the players' mental health.

I think that's a ridiculous standard. Omnicron was discovered around thanksgiving and there wasn't data to draw conclusions on for weeks.

The bubble was a minor miracle that basically saved everyone a ton of revenue and protected the sport from irrelevance if it had gone 10 months without a game and more than a year without a champion.

[dice]

and there's a chance it gets a whole lot worse if/when a delta/omicron double whammy hits

The national case, death and hospitalization rates remain well below those seen last winter, before vaccines were widely available

This from one of those articles.

And yes, we have a surge, but hospitalization rates are down. Originally, shutdowns were to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed. There was concern about ventilator shortage and car companies offering to manufacture ventilators. That is not the case currently with vaccinations widely available. Most patients I currently see are less sick, and i hospitalize a tiny fraction of them compared to last year. I definitely feel a huge swing in cases recently, but many fewer in the elderly, and very few hospitalizable. Now is it possible that some hospitals here and there are getting large volumes of patients currently and admitting enough of them to fill their hospital? Sure. But I work in an area where the worst surge of cases occurred and at its peak last year it was exponentially worse than currently.

I don't know what to say to this. You sound like you are a doctor, so I don't want to dismiss your first hand knowledge. But if you look at the articles I linked to, it says that hospitals are being overwhelmed in Chicago, NY, PHI, and I stopped at those 3- I'm sure there are many other areas, smaller areas with few hospitals, that are facing similar challenges.

And 90% of those being hospitalized right now are unvaccinated. So this is a completely artificial problem- we are doing this to ourselves due to a disasterously poor job of leadership by some politicians, along with unprofessional and irresponsible media personalities who have decided that ratings and political gains are more important than their viewers lives.

if some major cities are being overwhelmed, certainly many rural areas where vaccination rates are lower are having problems as well

[madvillian]

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Well Commish it would have made a helluva lot more sense to have said that weeks ago and to have made the roster adjustments then. I'm pretty down on Silver overall he's not handled COVID well and even the Bubble, in hindsight, seems a questionable decision given the toll it took on the players' mental health.

I think that's a ridiculous standard. Omnicron was discovered around thanksgiving and there wasn't data to draw conclusions on for weeks.

The bubble was a minor miracle that basically saved everyone a ton of revenue and protected the sport from irrelevance if it had gone 10 months without a game and more than a year without a champion.

except literally every other major sports league managed to have their season without going to that draconian level. You can argue that the bubble was necessary only if you assume that the season couldn't have been saved otherwise and Silver has played that angle up for all it's worth.

I don't agree with that at all, maybe I'm a heretic.

[dkb965]

They might as well let us get this easy win vs. the Raptors since they made us play with a skeleton crew.

It is BS to play tomorrow. Enjoy a fake win against a G league team.

[TyrusRose2425]

They might as well let us get this easy win vs. the Raptors since they made us play with a skeleton crew.

It is BS to play tomorrow. Enjoy a fake win against a G league team.

1 fake win versus a team we probably beat at full strength anyways versus 2 fake losses to teams we have a good chance of beating at full strength. Yeah hasn’t balanced out yet.

[dkb965]

They might as well let us get this easy win vs. the Raptors since they made us play with a skeleton crew.

It is BS to play tomorrow. Enjoy a fake win against a G league team.

1 fake win versus a team we probably beat at full strength anyways versus 2 fake losses to teams we have a good chance of beating at full strength. Yeah hasn’t balanced out yet.

I would love to see a fully healthy Raptors team play a fully healthy Bulls team in a best of seven series. DeRozan looks to be better then ever, but he has failed miserably in the playoffs his entire career. As long as the Bulls are not playing the Raptors I would love to see DeRozan carry his play so far this season into the playoffs. He does appear to be capable of doing so, it is just that I have seen this movie before.

[gf2020hotmail]

except literally every other major sports league managed to have their season without going to that draconian level. You can argue that the bubble was necessary only if you assume that the season couldn't have been saved otherwise and Silver has played that angle up for all it's worth.

I don't agree with that at all, maybe I'm a heretic.

The NHL did the exact same thing, so I am not sure what you are talking about? They just had two bubbles that they later combined. Baseball, played outside for the most part, delayed their season four months, and had an outrageous amount of players, unvaccinated at the time, catch COVID. Comparing the nba to the nfl, which hadn't started its season yet, plays mostly outdoors once a week and got several extra months to prepare is something.

Worrying about NBA player's mental health and approvingly citing Major League Baseball's model which physically endangered hundreds players is pretty incongruous.

[MGB8]

Right now I think we're all hoping that Omicron does end up as mild as the initial data out of South Africa and other places suggests.

Note that while the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron - with the potential exception of a person who was *recently* boosted with the Moderna booster - Omicron looks mild without any vaccine protection. South Africa is about 26% vaccinated, ahead of the US in Omicron by a month or so, and yet has not had a surge in mortality.

And also, just because the vaccine doesn't provoke a high immediate antibody response does not mean that they don't help other immune-mechanisms, like T-cell immunity. Although that's also unclear. In fact, there's some data out there to suggest that vaccinated may be more at risk for catching Omicron and getting (mildly) sick from it (by prompting a "mismatched" response to Omicron that isn't very effective - i.e., "vaccine induced enhancement"). But that's all very speculative.

Moderna just released a finding that a booster spikes antibodies to Covid by 37%. There was no word of how long that spike lasts, and they also are not sure what means on a clinical level, but obviously the hope is that it will prevent you from getting infected in the first place, or if you do, the case will be even milder.

There is also the thought to increase their booster to double the current level, which could boost antibodies even more. Apparently that is a decision public health officials will need to make.

FYI, a happy correction here: a Moderna booster doesn't raise antibodies 37%, it raises them 37 times, i.e. 3700%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/moderna-says-booster-of-its-covid-vaccine-appears-to-protect-against-omicron.html

Pfizer's booster raises antibodies by 25x.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-omicron-is-moderna-or-pfizer-performing-better-heres-the-data-so-far/2711734/

I'm not sure what MGB8 meant when he said that "the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron." This is obviously not true and also leaves out that vaccines provide protection beyond antibodies, like T-cells, which should be more durable than antibodies.

Read: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-study-suggests-covid-19-vaccines-may-be-ineffective-against-omicron-without-2021-12-14/

[dougthonus]

I would love to see a fully healthy Raptors team play a fully healthy Bulls team in a best of seven series. DeRozan looks to be better then ever, but he has failed miserably in the playoffs his entire career. As long as the Bulls are not playing the Raptors I would love to see DeRozan carry his play so far this season into the playoffs. He does appear to be capable of doing so, it is just that I have seen this movie before.

I would love to see that too. Toronto would be on the weaker end of potential opponents they could face. I'd rather see Charlotte or Washington or Boston most likely, but I might take Toronto over Atlanta, Philly, or Miami.