Selling High and Buying low, but most important, building a competent team around Cade

vege · Post #1 » by **vege** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:03 pm

Boston Out: Josh Richardson, Juan Hernangomez, Robert Williams, 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Boston In: Jerami Grant, Rodney McGruder

Detroit Out: Jerami Grant, Kelly Olynyk, Rodney McGruder
Detroit In: Duncan Robinson, Robert Williams, Boston 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

Miami Out: Duncan Robinson
Miami In: Kelly Olynyk, Josh Richardson

OKC Out: Cap space
OKC In: Juan Hernangomez, Boston 2nd, one or 2 Brooklyn 2nds (via Detroit)

Next season, we draft Jaden Ivey and we would have a super young team and the players would make sense around Cade.

Robert Williams / Isaiah Stewart / Luka Garza
Saddiq Bey / Trey Lyles / Isaiah Livers
Duncan Robinson / Hamidou Diallo /
Jaden Ivey / Frank Jackson / Cory Joseph
Cade Cunningham / Killian Hayes / Saben Lee

Robert Williams is super athletic, and a great defender, and he have great hands, he can dunk anything you throw at him. Saddiq Bey and Duncan Robinson are great shooters (they've been struggling but they will get their %s up) Jaden Ivey is long and athletic, and is projected to be a great defender.

So we would put good shooters and good athletics around Cade, that team could be special imo, if Robinson goes back to be a 40%+ 3point shooter on high volume and Robert Williams stays health.

We would still be small tho, I am not sure if rebounding would be an issue.

bstein14 · Post #2 » by **bstein14** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:17 pm

Interesting trades. From the Boston perspective, we know they tried to land Jerami Grant last year offering "multiple first round picks" for him... that was Danny Ainge its hard to say for certain whether or not they would still have interest. If they did, it seems like Robert Williams and a top 5 protected pick would be a solid return for Grant, BUT on our end Robert Williams is a FA this summer. He's one of the tier 3 guys out there I think we should/could consider targeting if we can't land an Ayton or a Miles Bridges type FA.... That said, we might be better off just getting more for Grant now and then going after Williams this summer with something like a 4 year $60 million deal.

As far as the Miami part of the trade goes, trading KO for Duncan Robinson is probably a no brainer for us, BUT I would be a bit worried about our defense with Bey/Robinson starting side by side. We also would be horribly lacking in athletcism at the 1/2/3/4 if we started Hayes/Cunningham/Robinson/Bey.

vege · Post #3 » by **vege** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:05 pm

Robert Williams was extended, his extension will kick in next season, he got a 4 years 48 mil extension, which is cheap for what he can produce.

I agree about Bey and Duncan Robinson starting together, the defense would be bad, but Robert Williams is a defensive beast and Jaden Iven is projected to be a great defender, so maybe our defense would be fine, I am not sure.

bstein14 · Post #4 » by **bstein14** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:10 pm

vege wrote:Robert Williams was extended, his extension will kick in next season, he got a 4 years 48 mil extension, which is cheap for what he can produce.

I agree about Bey and Duncan Robinson starting together, the defense would be bad, but Robert Williams is a defensive beast and Jaden Iven is projected to be a great defender, so maybe our defense would be fine, I am not sure.

Didn't realize that... I agree 4 years $48 million is sold for him. He's kind of what I'd hope Beef Stew is in a year or two, but I think overall Stewart is still a few years away from being a decent starting center so if you could get someone else that can take over for a few years and let Stewart keep working on his skillset that will be best for the team for sure.

bstein14 · Post #5 » by **bstein14** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:33 pm

Williams got 4 years $54 million. Personally I wouldn't trade Grant for him and Boston's first rounder. I think Grant's worth more than that. Williams doesn't have a ton of trade value because at $13.5 million per year for his 9 PPG and 8 RPG he is ok value but not the type of player I'd think is worth a player of Grant's value. Grant for Williams and 2 future firsts from Boston sure but not jumping on that for just one first because Grant will also make them a better team.

vege · Post #6 » by **vege** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:51 am

Spotrac have him at 4 years 48 mil

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/robert-williams-iii-26993/

Williams have 3 issues, he doesn't have range, he is 6'8 and he is a non shooter, but he is a beast in the things he do well, he is super athletic, an amazing shot blocker, he is super quick, and have amazing hands. He is a limited player. His main issue is his health, he is always injured.

I was thinking that would be really fun to watch Cade pass the ball to a competent Center, like RWIII. Boston was willing to give us several 1sts for Grant, maybe they do Williams + a couple of 1sts, depending on the protections, I don't know.

bstein14 · Post #7 » by **bstein14** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:04 am

vege wrote:Spotrac have him at 4 years 48 mil

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/robert-williams-iii-26993/

Williams have 3 issues, he doesn't have range, he is 6'8 and he is a non shooter, but he is a beast in the things he do well, he is super athletic, an amazing shot blocker, he is super quick, and have amazing hands. He is a limited player. His main issue is his health, he is always injured.

I was thinking that would be really fun to watch Cade pass the ball to a competent Center, like RWIII. Boston was willing to give us several 1sts for Grant, maybe they do Williams + a couple of 1sts, depending on the protections, I don't know.

Ah you are correct, $48 million guaranteed but $6 million of incentives for things like playing in 69 or more games per season, making the 2nd round of the playoffs, making an all-defensive team, etc.

I like him, but because he isn't a shooter I'm just not sold on giving up someone like Grant for him. I'd be much happier to trade for him using Olynyk but of course that's super unlikely on our end.

Laimbeer · Post #8 » by **Laimbeer** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:03 pm

I might deal directly with Boston. I hate Robinson's contract. And Richardson is underrated, imo.

DET_Athletics · Post #9 » by **DET_Athletics** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:41 pm

How about this trade?
Hawks: Delon wright, Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter

Detroit: Jerami grant, Cory Joseph and 2 second round picks

Atlanta get a 3rd 20+ point score and backup point Gaurd and opens up minutes for Jalen Johnson and Cooper

We get a guard back that knows our system, played well for us and two toward prospect. With good odds we land a top two pick and bring wright back on a one year deal and sign a starting Center this off season and roll with a lineup of

Wright / Hayes
Cade / Reddish
Bey / Hunter
Draft pick / Olnyk
Free agent / Stewart

Then the next off season offer a max to the best free agent Gaurd that fits next to Cade.

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Manocad · Post #10 » by **Manocad** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:59 pm

That trade basically turns Grant and two seconds into Reddish and Hunter.

I just threw up.

DET_Athletics · Post #11 » by **DET_Athletics** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:30 pm

Manocad wrote:That trade basically turns Grant and two seconds into Reddish and Hunter.

I just threw up.

I think that's a great return, it frees up cap sauce, give us two prospects ( granted they are both a lil injury prone) and a PG that had success with us and could be a good place holder to us getting a better one?

What's a better return for Grant outside of the bulls? Who would be really hesitant to give us Williams.

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440BB · Post #12 » by **440BB** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:49 pm

The only highlight of that proposed trade is shipping out Joseph. Not interested, Grant is worth more IMO.

DetroitDon15 · Post #13 » by **DetroitDon15** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:02 am

vege wrote:Boston Out: Josh Richardson, Juan Hernangomez, Robert Williams, 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Boston In: Jerami Grant, Rodney McGruder

Detroit Out: Jerami Grant, Kelly Olynyk, Rodney McGruder
Detroit In: Duncan Robinson, Robert Williams, Boston 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

Miami Out: Duncan Robinson
Miami In: Kelly Olynyk, Josh Richardson

OKC Out: Cap space
OKC In: Juan Hernangomez, Boston 2nd, one or 2 Brooklyn 2nds (via Detroit)

Next season, we draft Jaden Ivey and we would have a super young team and the players would make sense around Cade.

Robert Williams / Isaiah Stewart / Luka Garza
Saddiq Bey / Trey Lyles / Isaiah Livers
Duncan Robinson / Hamidou Diallo /
Jaden Ivey / Frank Jackson / Cory Joseph
Cade Cunningham / Killian Hayes / Saben Lee

Robert Williams is super athletic, and a great defender, and he have great hands, he can dunk anything you throw at him. Saddiq Bey and Duncan Robinson are great shooters (they've been struggling but they will get their %s up) Jaden Ivey is long and athletic, and is projected to be a great defender.

So we would put good shooters and good athletics around Cade, that team could be special imo, if Robinson goes back to be a 40%+ 3point shooter on high volume and Robert Williams stays health.

We would still be small tho, I am not sure if rebounding would be an issue.

I like the deal but would rather draft one of the top three PFs. I like Ivey but he is Don my list. I also don’t like Bey at the 4 or Robinson at the 3. I’d like a big lineup preferable like this one.

Williams
P.F. Drafted
Bey
Robinson
Cade

flow · Post #14 » by **flow** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:10 pm

DET_Athletics wrote:How about this trade?
Hawks: Delon wright, Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter

Detroit: Jerami grant, Cory Joseph and 2 second round picks

Atlanta get a 3rd 20+ point score and backup point Gaurd and opens up minutes for Jalen Johnson and Cooper

We get a guard back that knows our system, played well for us and two toward prospect. With good odds we land a top two pick and bring wright back on a one year deal and sign a starting Center this off season and roll with a lineup of

Wright / Hayes
Cade / Reddish
Bey / Hunter
Draft pick / Olnyk
Free agent / Stewart

Then the next off season offer a max to the best free agent Gaurd that fits next to Cade.

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We don't have a system. There's nothing to know/learn here.

He's played here, and has played for Casey, so he won't go into shock when confronted with the absence of a system beyond middle school level. There's that.

But the last thing we need is an aging vet to suck up minutes at the PG position. We've got 3 young ones (counting Cade) who need all the minutes there. The Joseph-Wright train has got to stop.

I'd love Hunter if/once he's healthy. He's a good player.

Kilo · Post #15 » by **Kilo** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:14 pm

I think Patrick Williams is a real possibility given Weaver was high on him, and he's out for the season and Bulls denied disabled player PE and given they're a legit contender this year they might decide to move him for a now piece and Grant would be a really good fit. Detroit taking the player out for the season only helps their tank and gives them a potentially huge core piece.

Cade, Bey, Stewart, Williams, 2022 top 5 pick, Hayes, max cap space...

zeebneeb · Post #16 » by **zeebneeb** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:51 pm

Kilo wrote:I think Patrick Williams is a real possibility given Weaver was high on him, and he's out for the season and Bulls denied disabled player PE and given they're a legit contender this year they might decide to move him for a now piece and Grant would be a really good fit. Detroit taking the player out for the season only helps their tank and gives them a potentially huge core piece.

Cade, Bey, Stewart, Williams, 2022 top 5 pick, Hayes, max cap space...

There are a bunch of teams that could plug Grant into their starting lineup immediately, and in my opinion, become instant, real contenders. The Bulls have an exact need for Grant, and Williams does not fit their timeline. They have a very small window to compete at a Supreme level, and that is this year, and next year, at most. Derozan isn't getting any younger, and he is at the tail end of his prime(32)and playing at an exceptional level. Vucevic is also rounding back into shape, and is also in his prime(31). The time for the Bulls to go for it, is now. They are missing their Rasheed Wallace impact player, and funnily enough, at the exact same position.

This is a trade that fits both teams windows, and direction so perfectly, it seems insane some kind of deal hasn't been worked out yet.

I don't care what Bull fans think, they are a step below a true contender even with a healthy Williams,(age and experience)but with Grant, they absolutely could win the whole damn thing. Grant is a good defender, and great around the rim blocking shots. He also can gaurd the position they will have to go thru in the East, to go to the finals(Giannis, Durant, Collins, Randle, Harris)

Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch of other teams that could swing a deal and Detroit could get a good return, but Williams would fit perfectly here.

sfballa13 · Post #17 » by **sfballa13** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:00 pm

Kilo wrote:I think Patrick Williams is a real possibility given Weaver was high on him, and he's out for the season and Bulls denied disabled player PE and given they're a legit contender this year they might decide to move him for a now piece and Grant would be a really good fit. Detroit taking the player out for the season only helps their tank and gives them a potentially huge core piece.

Cade, Bey, Stewart, Williams, 2022 top 5 pick, Hayes, max cap space...

This is the Jerami Grant trade I want to make.

Williams is out for the rest of the season which helps our tank and we wont be taking back an unwanted salary moving forward.

Derrick Jones Jr + Williams for Grant straight up

I dont want any part of THT and his 20M owed over the next two years

Fox Sports Undisputed had a full segment today about how Grant was the Lakers' top choice in the trade market without any mention about how THT would fit in Detroit besides saying he plays best with the ball in his hands (exact opposite of what we want next to Cade)

Id also like to trade Olynyk and Corey Joseph for an expiring.

KO to Pelicans for Satoransky

KO + Joseph for Patrick Beverley (then buy him out so he can sign with a contender)

If we make the aforementioned Bulls trade and dump KO that would give us roughly 27M to spend, get rid of Joseph and we are over 30M

Sarver cheaping out and failing to offer Ayton an extension was a huge mistake.

Imagine a core of Cade-Ayton-Top 5 pick (2022) moving forward

Drwho17 · Post #18 » by **Drwho17** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:59 pm

Yes, not interested in another undersized center at $14 m/yr. for 4 years, already have a cheaper version in Stewart. Robinson's contract for what he does is bad, already looked at with regret in Miami. There is a lot of demand for Grant (and Olynik), so I don't think the proposed trades work out. Pistons could get more on the market for Grant than RW/Boston 1st., although their 1st is in the lottery at this point.

If we are sending Grant to Boston, I'd rather get Nesmith/2022 #1 with realistic protection to transfer in 2022, and filler.

If we are sending Grant to Chicago, I would do P Williams and future pick + filler would convice me.