2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[DaGawd]

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Thibs starting to let the rooks cook a lil bit. Can’t wait until McBride gets back.. Grimes shows flashes of why he was a projected lotto pick last year headed in to Kansas

What a picture perfect jumper. Just a beautiful shot. I'm impressed by his defense as well.

Agreed on the jumper. In Knicks circles Allan Houston is the comparison lots of us make when it comes to his jump shot form. It’s eerily similar imo

[marthafokker]

Anyone like Kuminga tonight? Outside of Mobley, Kuminga is getting the hardest defensive assignment (as a rookie) off the bench. Guarding all 5 positions. Got CP3 tonight, and probably learned more from his experience.

He is on a short leash. And looks like making more and more impact 2 months into the season.

Getting coached up by two of the best IQ players in Dray and Iggy... on top of a dedicated development coach.

His shots are already cleaner than coming into the season. And for a 19 year old, his footwork is better than most players off the bench in the league already. A dunking machine when he sees a lane.

Dray already saying he will be a big part of the playoff with his growth.

So I don't understand the trade him talk, by RGM and "experts", when he is so young, so gifted, and cheap. He is already looking like a potential star if he continues to learn.

[PD28]

Anyone like Kuminga tonight? Outside of Mobley, Kuminga is getting the hardest defensive assignment (as a rookie) off the bench. Guarding all 5 positions. Got CP3 tonight, and probably learned more from his experience.

He is on a short leash. And looks like making more and more impact 2 months into the season.

Getting coached up by two of the best IQ players in Dray and Iggy... on top of a dedicated development coach.

His shots are already cleaner than coming into the season. And for a 19 year old, his footwork is better than most players off the bench in the league already. A dunking machine when he sees a lane.

Dray already saying he will be a big part of the playoff with his growth.

So I don't understand the trade him talk, by RGM and "experts", when he is so young, so gifted, and cheap. He is already looking like a potential star if he continues to learn.

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/photo/2[/quote]

Ya not sure where you get that Mobley is getting the hardest defensive assignment or that Kuminga is even in that discussion. If anything, coming of the bench is helping him look better both offensively/defensively compared to the other top rookies. I've seen him play a couple times and think that he can be a solid scorer and a plus defender. But one major drawback is he literally has zero contribution other than scoring. Not a good rebounder, passer, etc. That's not a star, but that's a solid scorer which could be useful for GSW in the playoffs in stretches.

[BlazersBroncos]

Kuminga looked good. He is in a great spot as GSW has a org that runs like a well tuned machine. He is getting minutes but has been put in a role that doesnt ask him to doo too much. I think we see incrimental increases in his responsibilities on both sides of the floor (Especially on O) over the next 2-3 seasons. I think like most players that end up in GSW, they will get the most out of him.

[ocelot17]

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[mediocrityrules]

Weird stat this one, and not one you really want to 'hang your hat on', but Giddey just became the first NBA player in 50 years (since Norm Van Lier in 1971) to score a double double without scoring a single point.

His shot was way off, but everything else in the game was great.

[God Squad]

Suggs is definitely looking a little more like Stuckey than Chauncey.. lol jk

I think his shot starts dropping and everything else opens up for him and confidence goes up. Defense is as advertised. Just a matter of time. He was never a sensational playmaker in college, but he can draw a double and make the open pass.

While both are combo guards with somewhat limited point guard skills, Stuckey was good athlete with bad first step and bad motor while Suggs is great athlete with great first step and great motor.
Smart, Caruso, Holiday are better comparisons imo.

Suggs has way better touch than Smart. Stuckey had a good enough first step when he started in the league. Suggs absolutely has better touch than Stuckey who would routinely slam layups off the backboard and out of bounds.

Have you watched him yet this year? Anyways I also comp him to Jrue Holiday type ceiling, Smart mid, and George Hill floor.

[God Squad]

Anyone like Kuminga tonight? Outside of Mobley, Kuminga is getting the hardest defensive assignment (as a rookie) off the bench. Guarding all 5 positions. Got CP3 tonight, and probably learned more from his experience.

He is on a short leash. And looks like making more and more impact 2 months into the season.

Getting coached up by two of the best IQ players in Dray and Iggy... on top of a dedicated development coach.

His shots are already cleaner than coming into the season. And for a 19 year old, his footwork is better than most players off the bench in the league already. A dunking machine when he sees a lane.

Dray already saying he will be a big part of the playoff with his growth.

So I don't understand the trade him talk, by RGM and "experts", when he is so young, so gifted, and cheap. He is already looking like a potential star if he continues to learn.

You started with nonsense. A for effort.

In terms of Kuminga so far he's a scorer that brings nothing else to the table, maybe some defense? He can't rebound, pass or get steals/blocks. GSW should 100% keep him though, and develop him correctly.

[HumbleRen]

Quentin Grimes passes the eye test for me. Let the kid play 25-30 mins a night Thibs !

[Duke4life831]

This time last year I said the ideal scenario for Kuminga would be whoever drafts him brings him along to a similar path that the Celtics brought Jaylen Brown on.

Brown's rookie year he got 17mpg and during that time all he was asked to do is in those 15-17 minutes, focus on defense and on offense just take the open easy shots.

That is exactly what is being asked from Kuminga so far this year. I think when all the dust settles (Klay return and the Covid lineup shuffles), he will be getting around 12-15 minutes a night.

Then year 2 and 3, keep that same role just expand it to 28-32 minutes a night. Towards the end of year 3 you start loosening the offensive leash.

Year 4 seems to be the year when these raw wings will show if they have the offensive potential or not.

Brown
Kawhi
Butler
Giannis
PG13

All guys were single digit scorers as rookies. Their primary focus was to focus on the defensive side and just to take shots when defenses gave them easy shots. Again all of them were single digit scorers as rookies, none of them became 20ppg scorers until their 4th year (Kawhi year 5).

That should be the ideal progression path for Kumigna with GS.

[PlatinumState]

Garza killed it

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[God Squad]

This time last year I said the ideal scenario for Kuminga would be whoever drafts him brings him along to a similar path that the Celtics brought Jaylen Brown on.

Brown's rookie year he got 17mpg and during that time all he was asked to do is in those 15-17 minutes, focus on defense and on offense just take the open easy shots.

That is exactly what is being asked from Kuminga so far this year. I think when all the dust settles (Klay return and the Covid lineup shuffles), he will be getting around 12-15 minutes a night.

Then year 2 and 3, keep that same role just expand it to 28-32 minutes a night. Towards the end of year 3 you start loosening the offensive leash.

Year 4 seems to be the year when these raw wings will show if they have the offensive potential or not.

Brown
Kawhi
Butler
Giannis
PG13

All guys were single digit scorers as rookies. Their primary focus was to focus on the defensive side and just to take shots when defenses gave them easy shots. Again all of them were single digit scorers as rookies, none of them became 20ppg scorers until their 4th year (Kawhi year 5).

That should be the ideal progression path for Kumigna with GS.

I know you're a big fan so I ask, why is he such a lackluster rebounder for a guy his size? And I'm not sure I've seen him make the extra pass once, he's always looking to shoot/score.

[God Squad]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

[Duke4life831]

This time last year I said the ideal scenario for Kuminga would be whoever drafts him brings him along to a similar path that the Celtics brought Jaylen Brown on.

Brown's rookie year he got 17mpg and during that time all he was asked to do is in those 15-17 minutes, focus on defense and on offense just take the open easy shots.

That is exactly what is being asked from Kuminga so far this year. I think when all the dust settles (Klay return and the Covid lineup shuffles), he will be getting around 12-15 minutes a night.

Then year 2 and 3, keep that same role just expand it to 28-32 minutes a night. Towards the end of year 3 you start loosening the offensive leash.

Year 4 seems to be the year when these raw wings will show if they have the offensive potential or not.

Brown
Kawhi
Butler
Giannis
PG13

All guys were single digit scorers as rookies. Their primary focus was to focus on the defensive side and just to take shots when defenses gave them easy shots. Again all of them were single digit scorers as rookies, none of them became 20ppg scorers until their 4th year (Kawhi year 5).

That should be the ideal progression path for Kumigna with GS.

I know you're a big fan so I ask, why is he such a lackluster rebounder for a guy his size? And I'm not sure I've seen him make the extra pass once, he's always looking to shoot/score.

He hasnt had an issue with rebounding before, for instance for Ignite last year he was the 2nd leading rebounder with 7 per game. So Ill just chalk up the rebounding to getting used to the speed of the game and the role he is being asked to play. Plus going off of his small sample size so far compared to the guys I mentioned above when they were rookies

Rebounds per 100:
Kuminga: 8.2
Brown: 8.1
Kawhi: 11
Butler: 8.4 (8.1 is his career average)
Giannis: 9.3
PG13: 9

So definitely not great, but not shockingly bad either. Again I think a lot of it is just him getting used to the speed of the game still. He's still only has played 200 minutes and only has 8 games where he played double digit minutes. Considering rebounding has never been an issue for him in the past, Im not too worried about that.

When it comes to his playmaking, that just isnt the role he is being asked to do right now. He is in the Wiggins/Otto Porter/GP2/Damian Lee group. Those guys arent asked to play make. They are all sub 3 assist per 100. I also dont think he has been a black hole or ball stopper or anything like that. If you take out the game where it was pretty much all G League players playing, his last 12 games he only has 1 game where he has taken more than 4 shots.

I agree he isnt playmaking at all. But again he isnt being asked to either. His role is super simple right now. Defensively go all out defending the ball handler. I believe Kerr is having him defend the ball handler a lot because on ball defense he does excel at already and it keeps him from getting lost off the ball. Then offensively, set screens, make sure you dont screw up spacing and be in the right spots. If you have an open shot or an open lane to attack, take it. If not move the ball. That is is at the moment. It really is as basic of a role you could ask for from a player.

[basketballRob]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

He's a perimeter player that plays with a center. Scottie plays PF with no center. Giddey plays with no center. Cade plays with a 6'8" center. He averaged 7 RPG when both Bamba and WCJ were out.

KD averaged less rebounds in more minutes his rookie season and he's 6'11".

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[orlando_joe]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

another quiet night...sure 13 pts ,2 pts below his average.still at 18 a game in dec...man you like to rag on him he had butler on him most of night that guy plays solid d ..in case you dont know..the game was a real shoot out at 93-83..all kinds of points scored..lol

[God Squad]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

He's a perimeter player that plays with a center. Scottie plays PF with no center. Giddey plays with no center. Cade plays with a 6'8" center. He averaged 7 RPG when both Bamba and WCJ were out.

KD averaged less rebounds in more minutes his rookie season and he's 6'11".

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Two rebounds bruh? Guards or perimeter players get more than that. Chit you gotta just stand in the right place to get some rebounds. For example Gravett had 5, harris had 3 and Schofield had 6. The difference with the players you mentioned and Franz is they just go after it and want it more. Nothing to do with center or whatever else you want to blame it on.

[God Squad]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

another quiet night...sure 13 pts ,2 pts below his average.still at 18 a game in dec...man you like to rag on him he had butler on him most of night that guy plays solid d ..in case you dont know..the game was a real shoot out at 93-83..all kinds of points scored..lol

On the contrary I like Wagner and think he's quite good. Just pointing out he's an awful rebounder. I don't care about the down scoring, as everyone has off nights shooting. But I've seen a trend of bad rebounding nights from him, and this idea of he plays with a C is laughable. Anyways if It comes off as me ragging on Franz I apologize, Wasn't my intention.

[basketballRob]

Wagner with another quiet night for the magic scoring wise. On God I don't understand how he's such an awful rebounder.

He's a perimeter player that plays with a center. Scottie plays PF with no center. Giddey plays with no center. Cade plays with a 6'8" center. He averaged 7 RPG when both Bamba and WCJ were out.

KD averaged less rebounds in more minutes his rookie season and he's 6'11".

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Two rebounds bruh? Guards or perimeter players get more than that. Chit you gotta just stand in the right place to get some rebounds. For example Gravett had 5, harris had 3 and Schofield had 6. The difference with the players you mentioned and Franz is they just go after it and want it more. Nothing to do with center or whatever else you want to blame it on.

He's not a selfish player that tries to take an easy defensive rebound from our centers. Cole has ripped the defensive rebound from WCJ's hands a few times and he comes off as a stat-hungry player.

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[Gasolina]

I am a pretty big Franz fan and would rank him more highly among the rookies than most, and I certainly wouldn’t say 13 points is a “quiet” night for the guy.

That being said, it is true that he’s not a very good rebounder right now. He uses his size effectively in other areas of the game, but not when it comes to rebounding. That’s absolutely something he has to work on because it will make him a much improved player if he can develop a better nose for the ball.

Him not rebounding because he’s a perimeter player next to bigs is an excuse I don’t buy. There are plenty of perimeter players who are shorter than him and who also play next to bigs who are much better rebounders. Even 7 rpg while WCJ and Bamba were out is not good, considering he was then the tallest guy still on the floor who also was a competent basketball player.

Franz is so polished already that I’m not overly concerned about his poor rebounding. He’s a smart player, so I think he’ll improve. It is a hard skill to develop, but I have faith in him.