2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[Dupp]

Pre season Giannis was my choice because i didn't really see one other viable candidate and of course he's great.

Warriors however are way better than i thought was possible and he seems like the pretty clear front runner.

[feyki]

I've heard that Bjelica is a shooter from a speecher, those americans really don't know what's happening in the world; they're living in their tree.

That guy was Euroleague's best player for the few years and his force was definitely higher than Doncic's on the euroleague :/ .

[The Lazy Potato]

I doubt there are many players in NBA history that can impact both the offence and the defence like Giannis. But hey, he is not a fancy scorer like Curry or KD so the casual fans will never realize he is the best player in the league.

[mediocrityrules]

Giannis' impact on both ends of the floor is just insane. That he did what he did today after having COVID and isolating up until yesterday, then stepping on the floor with almost no practice etc, and putting up the line that he did and getting the Bucks up.

It's amazing that he seems to be flying under a lot of people's radars when talk comes to MVP (especially the media).

[BoatsNZones]

Giannis' impact on both ends of the floor is just insane. That he did what he did today after having COVID and isolating up until yesterday, then stepping on the floor with almost no practice etc, and putting up the line that he did and getting the Bucks up.

It's amazing that he seems to be flying under a lot of people's radars when talk comes to MVP (especially the media).

Counterpoint: he’s missed 7 of the last 14 games, showed no serious symptoms (per reports) of COVID and was far more rested than most of the players on the floor.

I think he is rightfully stationed right in the top 2-4 of most MVP talks right now. He leads the league in nothing, and neither do the Bucks (they’re not top 5 in offense or defense). But he’s having another great year when he’s been on the court. I do love Giannis. He’s a bit undervalued this season, but not the MVP.

Curry is the MVP. They have no business as the NBA 1 seed, and everybody knows it.

[mediocrityrules]

Giannis' impact on both ends of the floor is just insane. That he did what he did today after having COVID and isolating up until yesterday, then stepping on the floor with almost no practice etc, and putting up the line that he did and getting the Bucks up.

It's amazing that he seems to be flying under a lot of people's radars when talk comes to MVP (especially the media).

Counterpoint: he’s missed 7 of the last 14 games, showed no serious symptoms (per reports) of COVID and was far more rested than most of the players on the floor.

I think he is rightfully stationed right in the top 2-4 of most MVP talks right now. He leads the league in nothing, and neither do the Bucks (they’re not top 5 in offense or defense). But he’s having another great year when he’s been on the court. I do love Giannis. He’s a bit undervalued this season, but not the MVP.

Not sure that that's a counterpoint or just a really misleading statement. He was symptomatic (per Giannis himself), and spent the time isolated from his family in his basement watching movies. Add that to missing (as you point out) 7 of the last 14 games, and you have someone that had no right stepping straight back in and doing what he did. Yet he did what he did in just 29 minutes (his per-game averages are on a minutes per game average that has him outside the top 50 in terms of mpg.

Also note that I don't recall him leading a statistical category in any of his MVP years. He's just so elite in so many different ways that can affect a game. So not sure you have a point that holds water there either if you're looking for a point to make as to why he shouldn't be considered a favorite......'but not the MVP'

[BoatsNZones]

Giannis' impact on both ends of the floor is just insane. That he did what he did today after having COVID and isolating up until yesterday, then stepping on the floor with almost no practice etc, and putting up the line that he did and getting the Bucks up.

It's amazing that he seems to be flying under a lot of people's radars when talk comes to MVP (especially the media).

Counterpoint: he’s missed 7 of the last 14 games, showed no serious symptoms (per reports) of COVID and was far more rested than most of the players on the floor.

I think he is rightfully stationed right in the top 2-4 of most MVP talks right now. He leads the league in nothing, and neither do the Bucks (they’re not top 5 in offense or defense). But he’s having another great year when he’s been on the court. I do love Giannis. He’s a bit undervalued this season, but not the MVP.

Not sure that that's a counterpoint or just a really misleading statement. He was symptomatic (per Giannis himself), and spent the time isolated from his family in his basement watching movies. Add that to missing (as you point out) 7 of the last 14 games, and you have someone that had no right stepping straight back in and doing what he did. Yet he did what he did in just 29 minutes (his per-game averages are on a minutes per game average that has him outside the top 50 in terms of mpg.

Also note that I don't recall him leading a statistical category in any of his MVP years. He's just so elite in so many different ways that can affect a game. So not sure you have a point that holds water there either if you're looking for a point to make as to why he shouldn't be considered a favorite......'but not the MVP'

I have to be up early but to answer briefly he led the league in at least one of WS/48, PER, EPM and BPM in his MVP campaigns (all in one). He leads in nothing now. And the Bucks were the 1 seed then. He is not going to win DPOY this season (and has no case), nor is he a top 3 offensive player. He’s not the MVP favorite. He has a great case for top 4, though.

[PhoenixMilwauke]

Based on BR' MVP Tracker,

Giannis 19.6%
Steph 19.2%
Durant 17.4%
Jokic 14.3%

I don't remember when the MVP tracker didn't predict the actual winner. They do a pretty good job with it.

It's still early though and a 4 player race for now.

[WarriorGM]

Curry is the MVP. They have no business as the NBA 1 seed, and everybody knows it.

I look at it differently. The Warriors have every business being the NBA 1 seed—because they have Curry. Curry has been the best player in the league the past 7 years.

[Dutchball97]

Just a question in general but do you guys have a set bar for the lowest seed someone can be and still be a serious MVP contender? Do they at least have to be a play-in team? top 6 for a direct play-off spot? Top 4? Top 2? 1st seeds only? Or is seeding not so important and do you focus more on winning records? Is it a hard cut-off where everyone above a certain point is in the convo or is it a sliding scale where everyone gets considered but the higher the seed the better?

To me personally I'd say at least a winning record is necessary and especially now with the new play-in system I'd heavily prefer at least a 6th seed as well. Right now that'd mean Jokic would not be able to win the award by my criteria as the Nuggets do have the 6th seed but with only a 15-16 record. So even though I have Jokic and Curry 1A and 1B statistically, right now so it is Curry by default for me but that could easily change if Denver manages to climb over .500 again.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Just a question in general but do you guys have a set bar for the lowest seed someone can be and still be a serious MVP contender? Do they at least have to be a play-in team? top 6 for a direct play-off spot? Top 4? Top 2? 1st seeds only? Or is seeding not so important and do you focus more on winning records? Is it a hard cut-off where everyone above a certain point is in the convo or is it a sliding scale where everyone gets considered but the higher the seed the better?

To me personally I'd say at least a winning record is necessary and especially now with the new play-in system I'd heavily prefer at least a 6th seed as well. Right now that'd mean Jokic would not be able to win the award by my criteria as the Nuggets do have the 6th seed but with only a 15-16 record. So even though I have Jokic and Curry 1A and 1B statistically, right now so it is Curry by default for me but that could easily change if Denver manages to climb over .500 again.

It's definitely a sliding scale. Have another all star on your team then probably 3 seed. If your roster is decimated I'm probably saying 6th seed with an exception for something crazy. Jokic is close to something crazy but too many other qualified candidates

[Gasolina]

Just a question in general but do you guys have a set bar for the lowest seed someone can be and still be a serious MVP contender? Do they at least have to be a play-in team? top 6 for a direct play-off spot? Top 4? Top 2? 1st seeds only? Or is seeding not so important and do you focus more on winning records? Is it a hard cut-off where everyone above a certain point is in the convo or is it a sliding scale where everyone gets considered but the higher the seed the better?

To me personally I'd say at least a winning record is necessary and especially now with the new play-in system I'd heavily prefer at least a 6th seed as well. Right now that'd mean Jokic would not be able to win the award by my criteria as the Nuggets do have the 6th seed but with only a 15-16 record. So even though I have Jokic and Curry 1A and 1B statistically, right now so it is Curry by default for me but that could easily change if Denver manages to climb over .500 again.

Yeah I think I'm of a mind with you. At the very least you have to have a winning record, and you probably should have the 6th seed or higher as well. If your team has achieved both those things, then I think it goes head-to-head in terms of individual play and accomplishment. If the Nuggets have a winning record and at least the 6th seed, I would give it to Jokic over Curry without hesitation because Jokic has clearly been the far better individual player this year. I think Jokic and Giannis would be a more competitive argument at that point.

[BoatsNZones]

Curry is currently #2 in EPM, VORP, WinShares, PPG and RAPTOR. #1 in EPM wins added. No player other than Jokic has a statistical case over him, and when expectations (the Nuggets and Warriors were both projected to have 47 wins as a 5-7 seed) are taken into account with the leagues standings, no player has close to the narrative. There is a reason he has not wavered as the heavy betting favorite since week 1. KD is actually the only player who has gained ground in that respect.

[Dutchball97]

Curry is currently #2 in EPM, VORP, WinShares, PPG and RAPTOR. #1 in EPM wins added. No player other than Jokic has a statistical case over him, and when expectations (the Nuggets and Warriors were both projected to have 47 wins as a 5-7 seed) are taken into account with the leagues standings, no player has close to the narrative. There is a reason he has not wavered as the heavy betting favorite since week 1. KD is actually the only player who has gained ground in that respect.

I actually find it weird how KD has seemingly gained ground. If anything I think Gobert has a very good statistical argument for 4th ahead of KD at this point.

[falcolombardi]

Just a question in general but do you guys have a set bar for the lowest seed someone can be and still be a serious MVP contender? Do they at least have to be a play-in team? top 6 for a direct play-off spot? Top 4? Top 2? 1st seeds only? Or is seeding not so important and do you focus more on winning records? Is it a hard cut-off where everyone above a certain point is in the convo or is it a sliding scale where everyone gets considered but the higher the seed the better?

To me personally I'd say at least a winning record is necessary and especially now with the new play-in system I'd heavily prefer at least a 6th seed as well. Right now that'd mean Jokic would not be able to win the award by my criteria as the Nuggets do have the 6th seed but with only a 15-16 record. So even though I have Jokic and Curry 1A and 1B statistically, right now so it is Curry by default for me but that could easily change if Denver manages to climb over .500 again.

we have had players winning mvp but not making the playoffs before (and justifiably so cause kareem was that great and nobody else had a complete season)

so i guess anythingh is possible with a crazy enough outlier season

[Merc_Porto]

At this point is going to be difficult to choose one MVP.

I mean, Giannis and Curry are above the rest because of the record, but if Denver improves, there's Jokic, Lebron, as well.
Tight race.

[DutchManDanFan]

Top 4 are clear. Jokic 4th for me. Great stats but team result is what counts a lot.

[hisairness]

Curry is having his worst shooting season in 9 years, his team is having a way better record this year despite the fact that he's playing way worse than last year, he had one great game the entire month of December, he goes 10-27 from the field yesterday and posters here are saying he clinched an MVP and implying it should be unanimous. Also, I read arguments that he is a main defensive cog for the Warriors despite being hidden on the defense and being targeted by other teams offensively.

I actually like Curry but his fanboys are insufferable. At this point it's actually pointless to discuss whose MVP in this thread because Curry supporters created conditions where it's impossible for Curry to have a bad game. When he has a good game then he's obviously an MVP and no one impacts the game like he does. When he has a bad game and Warriors win, well, it's strictly thanks to his gravity and his teammates made open looks created by his gravity, MVP impact. He has a bad game and Warriors lose it's not his fault because it just means his teammates missed all the open looks created by his gravity.

So the only way he doesn't win an MVP is if the Warriors collapse and their record is significantly worse than team record of other MVP contenders. At this point the Warriors seem too dominant for that to happen so I guess this race is over.

[shoresy69]

Well then I guess the question is, why are the Warriors so dominant in the first place?

[HumbleRen]

Curry > Giannis=Jokic=KD