2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[mediocrityrules]

Until it happens, it means **** all. It's different to do up until a certain point and to do it for an entire season. When it comes to the impact Steph does, Giannis isn't in the same universe. Which is why he has 2 67 seasons and the goat season under his belt. Giannis so far has 1 60 win season, which you know, it's cute.

And if Giannis added KD he'd probably get 67 wins as well. I'm happy for people to keep sh**ting on Giannis all they want, because year on year he keeps proving everyone wrong, and will continue to do so as he continues to improve his game.

That happened once out of 3 times. I'm not **** on Giannis, but saying dumb **** like the last dominant RS player was Lebron and now it's Giannis during RS when Steph has been the clear top end guy since MJ in that regard considering his 3 ATG super-seasons, it's worth mentioning. Noone is remotely close to Steph's impact during RS. That's why we have a fringe 13th player on a team, a guy who couldn't make a single team and stayed in the G league for years and an ok injury prone player coming to the Warriors and people on realGM complaining that the Warriors are too damn stacked. Steph changes the game in a way that nobody else comes close to. And he has the resume to back it.

Giannis can get his due, just know your place. If Giannis starts leading his team to legendary seasons, I and others will rightfully give him his props.

Know my place? Giannis over the last three years (aged from 24-26), has won more RS games than any other player, more finals series than any other player, 2 MVPs, 1 FMVP, 1 DPOY. He turned 27 this month. He is still getting better. And don't tell me you're not sh*ting on him. You're trying to diminish him as much as possible in every post you make. Giannis is always behind the eight-ball with fanboys like yourself because he doesn't shoot the flashy long ball every game. For some reason people (like yourself) don't think of him as having any skill. It's a tired argument that just gets more tiresome. It'll be one hell of a day when people like you stop moving the goal posts.

[BoatsNZones]

I want to be on the record that I am not here for any Jokic or Giannis slander. KD? I will listen.

But the Curry slander is also an issue. I have put forth the numbers (and I don’t think they do him justice, but that is another topic for a later day). I haven’t seen an attempt to counter them. Waiting on 1…

[GSP]

Draymond out with Covid/safety protocols. Gonna be very interesting to see how Steph and the Warriors do. Steph and Dray have barely played without each other during the Kerr era. So much of their impact is tied together. Lets see........

[BoatsNZones]

Draymond out with Covid/safety protocols. Gonna be very interesting to see how Steph and the Warriors do. Steph and Dray have barely played without each other during the Kerr era. So much of their impact is tied together. Lets see........

They have thousands of minutes of on/off data over the years my man. There is no secret to either of their impact. And there is no secret to who runs the ship.

The Warriors next 4 games are Nuggets (2x), Miami and Utah. If they come out 2-2 without any wings and Draymond, I would be thrilled. The Warriors are a mess right now. This could be a 1-3 (0-4? Yikes. Possible) and a chance for the others to catch ground though. We shall see. Curry looks healthy. We may be in for a show.

[DutchManDanFan]

I mean. Curry won 73 games without KD. Giannis needs to top that or at least come close if he wants to prove he can impact winning as much as Curry can.

Bucks best season he topped out at only 60 wins, in the weak east. That isnt good enough. Needs 3+ consecutive years with 60+ wins if he wants to be in the same stratosphere as Curry as far as regular season impact.

He ALSO needs to repeat this year or at least take the west finalist to 7 games.

If he does both of those things, I can consider him having a Curry-like regular season impact.

I’m fine with Steph winning MVP this year, but your (and others) arguments are very weird. Bucks had the best record twice, both years with 60+ wins if no Corona. In year 3 Giannis and the Bucks didn’t care about another MVP/no 1 seed. Their focus was on good health and play-off succes. That worked. So what do you think their plan is for year 4?

Giannis doesn’t care for another MVP. Certainly if it’s without winning a ring again.

His chances also declined when the Bucks added Jrue. The +/- stat guy basicly claimed Jrue should be an allstar. And Khris should be too. Steph fans should know what it does for your MVP chances if you play with 2 other allstars. It helps Giannis chances that Jrue and Khris are not automatic allstars every year.

Jokic can win the award for best stats, but not MVP. Not with this team record. The award is for the most valuable player. Above all you show more value with more team wins. Bad luck for your MVP chances if your team is too bad. Or too good.

1. Steph
2. Giannis/KD
4. Jokic

[Impuniti]

And if Giannis added KD he'd probably get 67 wins as well. I'm happy for people to keep sh**ting on Giannis all they want, because year on year he keeps proving everyone wrong, and will continue to do so as he continues to improve his game.

That happened once out of 3 times. I'm not **** on Giannis, but saying dumb **** like the last dominant RS player was Lebron and now it's Giannis during RS when Steph has been the clear top end guy since MJ in that regard considering his 3 ATG super-seasons, it's worth mentioning. Noone is remotely close to Steph's impact during RS. That's why we have a fringe 13th player on a team, a guy who couldn't make a single team and stayed in the G league for years and an ok injury prone player coming to the Warriors and people on realGM complaining that the Warriors are too damn stacked. Steph changes the game in a way that nobody else comes close to. And he has the resume to back it.

Giannis can get his due, just know your place. If Giannis starts leading his team to legendary seasons, I and others will rightfully give him his props.

Know my place? Giannis over the last three years (aged from 24-26), has won more RS games than any other player, more finals series than any other player, 2 MVPs, 1 FMVP, 1 DPOY. He turned 27 this month. He is still getting better. And don't tell me you're not sh*ting on him. You're trying to diminish him as much as possible in every post you make. Giannis is always behind the eight-ball with fanboys like yourself because he doesn't shoot the flashy long ball every game. For some reason people (like yourself) don't think of him as having any skill. It's a tired argument that just gets more tiresome. It'll be one hell of a day when people like you stop moving the goal posts.

You are one insecure fan. You said Lebron was the most dominant RS player and now Giannis has taken the mantle. Reality is neither is on Steph's level of dominance and impact based on the seasons he's had. That's the truth, whether you like it or not. Until Giannis has some seasons where he elevates his team to have unreal RS at the level that the Chef has, he's not in his level. It's insulting and delusional to pick a dude whose best record is a 60 win piece as the dominant RS player. Keep harping on that 2 way impact though! Congrats to Giannis winning more RS games than any other player, which mean absolutely nothing at all compared to ATG seasons which is what I was relating to. Must be nice to have selective statistics.

And your rant on Giannis' accomplishments change absolutely nothing regarding what I said. I didn't even say anything about his skill here and you're crying to me about it. Through your head you're talking about moving goal posts when I have been very clear in every post what I'm relating to. What in the **** are you talking about? My only point was that Giannis is not at Steph's level of impact during RS, because noone since MJ has been. Never implied or stated that a 2x MVP is not a great RS player.

[SpreeS]

This season is on Orlando Mickey Mouse level again. One team matches postponed, other team was playing with 8 G-leagues. One team hited by Covid at all strength, other is totally ok.

[Doctor MJ]

Draymond out with Covid/safety protocols. Gonna be very interesting to see how Steph and the Warriors do. Steph and Dray have barely played without each other during the Kerr era. So much of their impact is tied together. Lets see........

As I posted above, Curry’s plus minus is WAY separated from Green this year, so to me this is an experiment already done.

If the Warriors fall off dramatically with Green completely unavailable coming up that will be interesting and imply and impact from Green that goes beyond his on court presence, but it’s already clear that the Warriors can do the Curry thing with and without Green.

I am glad you’re pointing out that in early Kerr years this was far more ambiguous due to how Kerr’s rotations worked back then. We have a clarity now we didn’t use to have.

As I say all of this, I do consider Green the best defensive player in the world and expect his presence to be missed, I just don’t think we’re going to see Curry stop being Curry.


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[Ballerhogger]

If the season keeps going like it’s going no way curry doesn’t win it he could even drop 3-4ppg and still win it .

[Statlanta]

I think the media is having fatigue of the previous MVP winners, and Curry hasn't won in a while, in addition he's the most entertaining player in the league by most.

Add to that the Nuggets and Bucks have had better records at this point in the past and I understand why Curry is leading even when his production dips.

[Doctor MJ]

I think the media is having fatigue of the previous MVP winners, and Curry hasn't won in a while, in addition he's the most entertaining player in the league by most.

Add to that the Nuggets and Bucks have had better records at this point in the past and I understand why Curry is leading even when his production dips.

I really don’t think fatigue is what’s happening there.

Fatigue implies belief that a certain established guy is the best player in the world but voting against him in the name of spreading the love.

That’s absolutely not how people feel about Jokic right now. What they feel is a skepticism toward Jokic with a lot of different components involved - including the glaring xenophobia that’s emerged from American players and their supporters in recent years.

On Giannis, everyone’s ready to vote for him for MVP. Same with Durant. Only reason they are behind Curry is because they think Curry has been more valuable this season. Now they wouldn’t think that if the records were reversed, and it’s reasonable to knock them for that, it’s just not fatigue.


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[Alatan]

I think the media is having fatigue of the previous MVP winners, and Curry hasn't won in a while, in addition he's the most entertaining player in the league by most.

Add to that the Nuggets and Bucks have had better records at this point in the past and I understand why Curry is leading even when his production dips.

I really don’t think fatigue is what’s happening there.

Fatigue implies belief that a certain established guy is the best player in the world but voting against him in the name of spreading the love.

That’s absolutely not how people feel about Jokic right now. What they feel is a skepticism toward Jokic with a lot of different components involved - including the glaring xenophobia that’s emerged from American players and their supporters in recent years.

On Giannis, everyone’s ready to vote for him for MVP. Same with Durant. Only reason they are behind Curry is because they think Curry has been more valuable this season. Now they wouldn’t think that if the records were reversed, and it’s reasonable to knock them for that, it’s just not fatigue.


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How are people xenophobic of Jokic and not of Giannis?

[Alatan]

What bothers me about this years MVP race is how the media and a lot of casuals are hypocrites. Last season it was all about how Curry should be the MVP no mater his record because stats. This season its the reverse, its about the record no mater the stats. Laughable.

I dont mind Jokic not winning MVP even as is think he is carrying the hardest as MVP candidates need to have a good record so we can eliminate stat padders like WB that are detrimental to their teams. But the hypocrisy is something else.

[AussieBuck]

MVP tracker update, something for everyone

Giannis 19%
Curry 18.7%
Durant 16.9%
Jokic 16.6%
Gobert
Paul
Harden
Ayton
Derozan
Allen

[BoatsNZones]

MVP tracker update, something for everyone

Giannis 19%
Curry 18.7%
Durant 16.9%
Jokic 16.6%
Gobert
Paul
Harden
Ayton
Derozan
Allen

I like checking this too for fun. It's right 60-70% of the time. That's the 4th name in the past few weeks I have seen ranked #1. Their formula is just points/rebounds/assists/wins as that was the most statistically relevant to past winners (voters now are probably a bit more nuanced though).

What bothers me about this years MVP race is how the media and a lot of casuals are hypocrites. Last season it was all about how Curry should be the MVP no mater his record because stats. This season its the reverse, its about the record no mater the stats. Laughable.

I dont mind Jokic not winning MVP even as is think he is carrying the hardest as MVP candidates need to have a good record so we can eliminate stat padders like WB that are detrimental to their teams. But the hypocrisy is something else.

I've seen this revisionist history mentioned a few times on here. Reality is that Curry was not even in the top 3 discussion until he went supernova the final couple months of the season (we know this from the media straw polls for MVP taken multiple times during the season), and he certainly never became the favorite. Lebron said Curry was the MVP, and about 5% of the media agreed with him. Jokic won in a landslide and was only going to be challenged by Embiid (probably would have lost to Embiid to be honest) before he got hurt.

[AussieBuck]

MVP tracker update, something for everyone

Giannis 19%
Curry 18.7%
Durant 16.9%
Jokic 16.6%
Gobert
Paul
Harden
Ayton
Derozan
Allen

I like checking this too for fun. It's right 60-70% of the time. That's the 4th name in the past few weeks I have seen ranked #1. Their formula is just points/rebounds/assists/wins as that was the most statistically relevant to past winners (voters now are probably a bit more nuanced though).

Nah it's weighted by wins, just like the regular MVP.

[BoatsNZones]

MVP tracker update, something for everyone

Giannis 19%
Curry 18.7%
Durant 16.9%
Jokic 16.6%
Gobert
Paul
Harden
Ayton
Derozan
Allen

I like checking this too for fun. It's right 60-70% of the time. That's the 4th name in the past few weeks I have seen ranked #1. Their formula is just points/rebounds/assists/wins as that was the most statistically relevant to past winners (voters now are probably a bit more nuanced though).

Nah it's weighted by wins, just like the regular MVP.

It's points/rebounds/assists/wins... obviously it's not just wins lol. You'd have 15 guys on the overall 1 seed tied for first. I don't think the guy that did the little project ever said how he weighted them though. It's just a quick/easy way to gauge who's likely in the discussion. And it does have the top 4 correct in one order or another.

[AussieBuck]

I like checking this too for fun. It's right 60-70% of the time. That's the 4th name in the past few weeks I have seen ranked #1. Their formula is just points/rebounds/assists/wins as that was the most statistically relevant to past winners (voters now are probably a bit more nuanced though).

Nah it's weighted by wins, just like the regular MVP.

It's points/rebounds/assists/wins... obviously it's not just wins lol. You'd have 15 guys on the overall 1 seed tied for first. I don't think the guy that did the little project ever said how he weighted them though. It's just a quick/easy way to gauge who's likely in the discussion. And it does have the top 4 correct in one order or another.

It's box score stuff with a wins multiplier. Just a simple model that uses the measurable factors relevant. Can't measure narrative.

[WarriorGM]

What bothers me about this years MVP race is how the media and a lot of casuals are hypocrites. Last season it was all about how Curry should be the MVP no mater his record because stats. This season its the reverse, its about the record no mater the stats. Laughable.

I dont mind Jokic not winning MVP even as is think he is carrying the hardest as MVP candidates need to have a good record so we can eliminate stat padders like WB that are detrimental to their teams. But the hypocrisy is something else.

Curry was the MVP last year because without him his team was dead last the previous year while with him they were playoffs bound. Emphasis on dead last. There is a big difference between teams with poor records and teams that are at the bottom. I can see a regular star leading the current Thunder to the playoffs—the Pistons are another deal.

In any event Jokic did get the MVP award last year so protesting about hypocrisy is in itself hypocritical. MVP awards though tend to be given out to prospective great players more easily when it is their first. Second MVPs are more strictly handed out which makes sense if you think of them as historical signposts. Voters want previous MVPs to have proven themselves. The last thing they want is an MVP that they selected making them look like fools or look like they made a mistake. Think of what might be said if Westbrook or Harden had two MVPs now. The best way to avoid that is to provide a winning resume. Jokic hasn't done that yet.

Conversely Curry has. Indeed that's probably at the back of people's minds and what makes his candidacy stronger. If Curry were to lead this Warriors team to the best record and a championship and he didn't win the MVP that is what would make the voters look stupid. KD is another beneficiary of this perspective favoring players with winning resumes who one might think are underrepresented in the MVP count.

[Doctor MJ]

I think the media is having fatigue of the previous MVP winners, and Curry hasn't won in a while, in addition he's the most entertaining player in the league by most.

Add to that the Nuggets and Bucks have had better records at this point in the past and I understand why Curry is leading even when his production dips.

I really don’t think fatigue is what’s happening there.

Fatigue implies belief that a certain established guy is the best player in the world but voting against him in the name of spreading the love.

That’s absolutely not how people feel about Jokic right now. What they feel is a skepticism toward Jokic with a lot of different components involved - including the glaring xenophobia that’s emerged from American players and their supporters in recent years.

On Giannis, everyone’s ready to vote for him for MVP. Same with Durant. Only reason they are behind Curry is because they think Curry has been more valuable this season. Now they wouldn’t think that if the records were reversed, and it’s reasonable to knock them for that, it’s just not fatigue.


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How are people xenophobic of Jokic and not of Giannis?

I never said that there wasn't xenophobia pertaining to Giannis. In fact, my use of the word "ready" in contrast to Jokic implies that the difference between Jokic & Giannis perception is based on something that the player can prove to us on the court.