Joel: unchained.

[NBA Moses]

Is jojo a generational talent? Yes, on around half of the games (considering missed games and high inconsistency in performance). I can’t say the same thing on guys like Giannis, KD, Steph, Harden, Jokic and etc.

I see it similarly.

"Championship Pieces" in their prime excel at every facet.We're talking MJ, Lebron,KD,Steph,recently Giannis.

Lets look at the qualifications of what makes up a championship player.

1.Skill- Joel rates high here. This is not the problem.
2.Heart/Desire- I cant question Joel here ,Ill give him max score.
3.Physicality/stamina/Ability to take over game/series- This is where Joel starts to lose "Championship Piece" status. Injured alot, not championship level conditioning.You need to dominate nightly. Joel is dominant once a week ehh maybe once a month.
4.Instinct/BB IQ- Not championship level.

I dont ever see Sixers winning with Joel being a Point Center/Wing/Guard. And Ive wished it for 5 yrs and Ive lost all hope that Joels low post game would be the answer. Its just not going to happen . Hes never going to be Wilt,Russell,Shaq,Hakeem, hes not even going to be Patrick Ewing or Robert Parrish.

IMo the only chance was Sixers developing Joel into a true low post center . Years of Weight room/strength , low post development,boxing out , rim protecting, controlling the paint. They let him do his thing on the perimeter, the only problem is Joel is an avg perimeter guy at best. He loses value every foot he moves away from the basket.

What a random thing to say.

Like Giannis doesn't excel at every facet of the game, Curry doesn't too, not even Lebron or Jordan did.

Your qualifications are super random too, like, how do you get to 4? what's the IQ basketball difference between Giannis and Joel? Can you explain? lol

Giannis is versatile because the entire team is design around him, idem with Steph who complements himself amazingly with Draymond who also can play small 5 great or point center in transition and allows Steph to play off ball.

More over, why does Joel has to be a Point center? we're playing like that because we don't have a PG currently but Giannis is not a PG anymore and has not been one for like 3 years now.

Do we need Joel to play most low post center? yes, but there is a reason post ups are mostly gone, you just can pack the paint in the clutch and take a low post move away, it's also a less efficient play and makes doubling easier. Joel has also an elite midrange jump shot, why would you want to take that away from him?

Can Joel anchor a defense? probably, but have you see Joel USG%? asking him to score on the volume he does AND anchor a defense is just overkill.

The reason Joel often fail as a closer is because he's basically our entire offense, so you just need to do an early double on him most of the time and teams can predict he's gonna close because we don't have too many offensive weapons.

Comparing him with the guys you're doing is hilarious too, you're talking like all those guys played the same kind of game. Joel last year, btw, was the first center to score as efficiently as he did on that volume since Wilt, not even Shaq scored with that efficiency on that volume.

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

[eyeatoma]

It does not really matter on who’s better between the two for being better or worse does not mean you are or aren’t gonna win the championship.

But Jokic is better than Jojo right? Not just this year but including last season.

And this season he just went into another level, he possibly have the best or atleast top 3-5 defensive numbers along with arguably best offensive numbers based on RAPTOR and BPM.

Jokic also is a lot more consistent and durable than Jojo.

No, he's not.

Not the same class as a defender despite this year's numbers and but as potent a scorer. Embiid also has won more on the court with his team than Jokic has. Only thing Joker has on him is passing and health.

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[eyeatoma]

I see it similarly.

"Championship Pieces" in their prime excel at every facet.We're talking MJ, Lebron,KD,Steph,recently Giannis.

Lets look at the qualifications of what makes up a championship player.

1.Skill- Joel rates high here. This is not the problem.
2.Heart/Desire- I cant question Joel here ,Ill give him max score.
3.Physicality/stamina/Ability to take over game/series- This is where Joel starts to lose "Championship Piece" status. Injured alot, not championship level conditioning.You need to dominate nightly. Joel is dominant once a week ehh maybe once a month.
4.Instinct/BB IQ- Not championship level.

I dont ever see Sixers winning with Joel being a Point Center/Wing/Guard. And Ive wished it for 5 yrs and Ive lost all hope that Joels low post game would be the answer. Its just not going to happen . Hes never going to be Wilt,Russell,Shaq,Hakeem, hes not even going to be Patrick Ewing or Robert Parrish.

IMo the only chance was Sixers developing Joel into a true low post center . Years of Weight room/strength , low post development,boxing out , rim protecting, controlling the paint. They let him do his thing on the perimeter, the only problem is Joel is an avg perimeter guy at best. He loses value every foot he moves away from the basket.

What a random thing to say.

Like Giannis doesn't excel at every facet of the game, Curry doesn't too, not even Lebron or Jordan did.

Your qualifications are super random too, like, how do you get to 4? what's the IQ basketball difference between Giannis and Joel? Can you explain? lol

Giannis is versatile because the entire team is design around him, idem with Steph who complements himself amazingly with Draymond who also can play small 5 great or point center in transition and allows Steph to play off ball.

More over, why does Joel has to be a Point center? we're playing like that because we don't have a PG currently but Giannis is not a PG anymore and has not been one for like 3 years now.

Do we need Joel to play most low post center? yes, but there is a reason post ups are mostly gone, you just can pack the paint in the clutch and take a low post move away, it's also a less efficient play and makes doubling easier. Joel has also an elite midrange jump shot, why would you want to take that away from him?

Can Joel anchor a defense? probably, but have you see Joel USG%? asking him to score on the volume he does AND anchor a defense is just overkill.

The reason Joel often fail as a closer is because he's basically our entire offense, so you just need to do an early double on him most of the time and teams can predict he's gonna close because we don't have too many offensive weapons.

Comparing him with the guys you're doing is hilarious too, you're talking like all those guys played the same kind of game. Joel last year, btw, was the first center to score as efficiently as he did on that volume since Wilt, not even Shaq scored with that efficiency on that volume.

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

Giannis had Middleton and Holiday. We had Ben and Tobi. Nuff said. Just lol.

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[NBA Moses]

Other than the Jordan era Bulls almost every dynasty had a hall of fame low post center helping them win championships.

Bill Russell,Jabbar,,Parrish,Hakeem,Duncan,Shaq. Thats 32 Championships

And they all got double teamed.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[Murray_17]

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

This things don't happen on a vacuum.

Before last year Giannis was easily doubled and could not beat double teams, because he was playing with Bledsoe.

By the same token a team will foul Giannis on crounch time because him getting on the line is better than him driving at the rim.

Getting a foul is indeed a good outcome for an opossing team facing Giannis.

Your logic of him magically deciding he can and will close games is just "ESPN analyst" BS.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

Giannis got destroyed by the Heat just 2 seasons ago, on the friggin second round. Like at least we could talk considering a time line that extend for more than 8 months?.

That Mediocre Hawks team was 2-2 with the same Bucks before Trae Young got out of the series too.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

You don't have to.

One thing is you thinking Joel is overrated, you're on your right to think so. But if your argument for it, it's stuff like "Giannis can impose his will and Joel don't" which is Stephen A. Smith stuff don't get mad when called out on it.

[NBA Moses]

What a random thing to say.

Like Giannis doesn't excel at every facet of the game, Curry doesn't too, not even Lebron or Jordan did.

Your qualifications are super random too, like, how do you get to 4? what's the IQ basketball difference between Giannis and Joel? Can you explain? lol

Giannis is versatile because the entire team is design around him, idem with Steph who complements himself amazingly with Draymond who also can play small 5 great or point center in transition and allows Steph to play off ball.

More over, why does Joel has to be a Point center? we're playing like that because we don't have a PG currently but Giannis is not a PG anymore and has not been one for like 3 years now.

Do we need Joel to play most low post center? yes, but there is a reason post ups are mostly gone, you just can pack the paint in the clutch and take a low post move away, it's also a less efficient play and makes doubling easier. Joel has also an elite midrange jump shot, why would you want to take that away from him?

Can Joel anchor a defense? probably, but have you see Joel USG%? asking him to score on the volume he does AND anchor a defense is just overkill.

The reason Joel often fail as a closer is because he's basically our entire offense, so you just need to do an early double on him most of the time and teams can predict he's gonna close because we don't have too many offensive weapons.

Comparing him with the guys you're doing is hilarious too, you're talking like all those guys played the same kind of game. Joel last year, btw, was the first center to score as efficiently as he did on that volume since Wilt, not even Shaq scored with that efficiency on that volume.

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

Giannis had Middleton and Holiday. We had Ben and Tobi. Nuff said. Just lol.

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The complimentary pieces are not the issue.

You could make the argument if Giannis was drafted by Sixers instead of Joel . the sixers might have 3 championships by now. Hes a top 3 player(arguably #1) and needs to be respected. Middleton or Jrue isnt the key to Bucks championship, Giannis is.

[eyeatoma]

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

Giannis had Middleton and Holiday. We had Ben and Tobi. Nuff said. Just lol.

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The complimentary pieces are not the issue.

You could make the argument if Giannis was drafted by Sixers instead of Joel . the sixers might have 3 championships by now. Hes a top 3 player(arguably #1) and needs to be respected. Middleton or Jrue isnt the key to Bucks championship, Giannis is.

They are the biggest issue.

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[Murray_17]

You could make the argument if Giannis was drafted by Sixers instead of Joel . the sixers might have 3 championships by now. Hes a top 3 player(arguably #1) and needs to be respected. Middleton or Jrue isnt the key to Bucks championship, Giannis is.

Giannis maybe would not even had an MVP trophy playing here.

Giannis and Ben is an horrible pairing, just awful. One of the reasons Ben/Joel kind of worked was because Embiid can shot, so Ben was able to operate on the dunker spot and drive to the rim, Giannis is just awful without his drives.

We would be forced to play Giannis at the 5, because we never got a decent center outside of Joel, and Giannis cannot play the totality of his minutes at the 5.


And don't even get me started on our historical awful spacing

[mjkvol]

Other than the Jordan era Bulls almost every dynasty had a hall of fame low post center helping them win championships.

Bill Russell,Jabbar,,Parrish,Hakeem,Duncan,Shaq. Thats 32 Championships

And they all got double teamed.

You left out the Warriors as an exception,and they are much more recent, and therefore relevant to what we're discussing.

[mjkvol]

With game on the line Giannis has the power to get the ball at free throw line , beat a double team and jam it in your face. Or/and he'll get fouled.

Joel at crunchtime will get the ball at the foul line get double teamed and end up with a fadeaway 17 foot jumper. Giannis has a ring.Joel couldnt put the team on his shoulders and beat a mediocre Hawks team in the friggin second round.

I like everything about JOel I just dont have him up on a pedestal like most Sixers fans do.

Giannis had Middleton and Holiday. We had Ben and Tobi. Nuff said. Just lol.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

The complimentary pieces are not the issue.

You could make the argument if Giannis was drafted by Sixers instead of Joel . the sixers might have 3 championships by now. Hes a top 3 player(arguably #1) and needs to be respected. Middleton or Jrue isnt the key to Bucks championship, Giannis is.

But are they winning that championship without Middleton and Holiday? I think not.

[Mik317]

Giannis was considered a playoff choke artist prior to last year....when he got a PG to allow him to not have to try to do everything. Middleton also randomly became became Jordan in the clutch for the team.

Jokic is great. His team is currently 16-16 in a weaker conference.

There is context being left out here yall. Jo has to be better and more consistent for sure. And again just may not be able to be the main force on a championship team at the end of the day...but this team as currently constructed doesn't really let us figure that out IMO. His PG isn't allowed to be a PG (Jo has a role in that of course) and may just not be a real PG. His shooters are gunshy or not good at times. And his iso scorer likes to iso score in the same areas as he does and hasn't been good at it this season. And then theres the fact that the moment he leaves the floor, the team becomes the worst team in the league. Again Jo has not been perfect and without fault here...but it really feels like some are missing the point a bit.

[Murray_17]

Giannis was considered a playoff choke artist prior to last year....when he got a PG to allow him to not have to try to do everything. Middleton also randomly became became Jordan in the clutch for the team.

And that narrative would still be used if Durant had smaller shoes lol.

That only goes to show how some of those narratives are just dumb sometimes.

[eyeatoma]

Giannis was considered a playoff choke artist prior to last year....when he got a PG to allow him to not have to try to do everything. Middleton also randomly became became Jordan in the clutch for the team.

And that narrative would still be used if Durant had smaller shoes lol.

That only goes to show how some of those narratives are just dumb sometimes.

Yup

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[kuclas]

A lot of thing had to go right for the bucks in playoffs. KD foot on the 3 point line PLUS kyrie injured PLUS harden hobbling around. That’s just to get out of the second round.

[mjkvol]

A lot of thing had to go right for the bucks in playoffs. KD foot on the 3 point line PLUS kyrie injured PLUS harden hobbling around. That’s just to get out of the second round.

Same can be said for Toronto. What are the odds of both Durant and Thompson going down?

[eyeatoma]

A lot of thing had to go right for the bucks in playoffs. KD foot on the 3 point line PLUS kyrie injured PLUS harden hobbling around. That’s just to get out of the second round.

Same can be said for Toronto. What are the odds of both Durant and Thompson going down?

That too. Lakers Disney chip as well.

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[Mik317]

its almost as if luck plays a role and just being in the mix works

[76ciology]

It does not really matter on who’s better between the two for being better or worse does not mean you are or aren’t gonna win the championship.

But Jokic is better than Jojo right? Not just this year but including last season.

And this season he just went into another level, he possibly have the best or atleast top 3-5 defensive numbers along with arguably best offensive numbers based on RAPTOR and BPM.

Jokic also is a lot more consistent and durable than Jojo.

No, he's not.

Not the same class as a defender despite this year's numbers and but as potent a scorer. Embiid also has won more on the court with his team than Jokic has. Only thing Joker has on him is passing and health.

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Im never been a Jokic fan. But Jokic is posting GOAT level numbers this season. On both ends. Better than 15-16 Curry, as per 538’s RAPTOR.

Jokic’s always been a bad to average defender. But he’s been ELITE this season. Yes, i also couldnt believe it as im typing it right now.

And if we both aren’t buying that his defense is legit, his offense has always been one of the top in the league. Just as good or very near as good as scoring compared to Embiid (25-26ppg on just 18FGA with better % across the board) while clearly making the team better with GOAT level passing.

Im not putting down Embiid. I just want to give credit where credit is due.

And availability and consistency also plays a big part. For instance, if Embiid is an ironman, I think we wouldnt need another top tier player for Embiid to play with that much. But because Embiid’s availability is an issue, we need someone who can take over games when he randomly does not play or whenever he plays but looks sluggish.

[Mik317]

again...Jokic is doing all this...and his team is 16-16.
and they didn;t have a chance last year without Murray.

Jo even at top shape and consistency will need help. I mean Jo's best games this year have often come in games that gone down to the buzzer.

Yeah its great when you have a guy who can win games by themselves...which Jokic is and Biid can be at times...that does not win it all for you tho. Bron has tried to solo teams by himself and while he got his teams to the finals some of those times....he couldn't pull it off without Wade, Kyrie, AD All..... top25 guys. Curry is a one man hax. Hasn't made the playoffs in two years thanks to Klay being hurt. Giannis got stonewalled every season until him and Middleton got Jrue to do a lot of set up work and play top tier defense...unlike Bledsoe. So it doesn't even have to be a top 25 addition just a better fit ( and some luck w/ us shtiting the bed, The Nets losing two of their top 3 basically, Trae getting hurt).

This idea that Biid isn't good enough because he can single handedly carry teams to the finals is misguided as even guy better than him can't do it either. Its weird how its lost but KD hasn't won **** outside of GS and hasn't had to carry a team solo his whole career. Dude is great and one of the best in the world.....but the Nets don't win if Harden doesn;t get it together (another guy who tried the one man band approach and failed btw) or Kyrie truly returns. Again Biid can be better. But it is also hard to do everything for your team night in and night out...everyone has off nights or nights you just don't have it. Its up to the gm/coach to make sure the team doesn't fall apart when that does happen.