Joel: unchained.

[TeamHigh]

I think what differentiates him for other top players is there’s less variance to it. Like there’s like 90+% chance that you’ll get KD, Steph or Giannis you know every game. As inconsistent Iverson was back then, Embiid’s performance and availability has a higher variance IMO.

This is just pure selection bias.

Just from this year, Steph has gone...

4-21 for 12 points.
2-10 for 12 points.
6-15 for 15 points.
6-20 for 18 points (against us, no less).
5-21 for 21 points.

All of those players you mention have their share of bad games. You just don't watch them night in and night out. If you did, you wouldn't see a player that's wildly more consistent.

Let's not even talk about your habit of using DBPM to assess defense. It's basically one step from saying rebounds and blocks measure a player's defensive contributions.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Who's easier to build around?

You need ballhandlers and spacing (which almost everyone needs, see Luka struggling this year because his team sucks from deep and driving lanes are closed).

And that's about it. Embiid can cover weaker perimeter defenders better than almost anyone not named Gobert.

Every NBA player needs adequate shooting around them or teams can just collapse and trap/double them. Almost every NBA player needs a secondary ballhandler so they can make plays against unbalanced offenses when they force them to shift.

The issues the Sixers have is that they're deficient at areas that are critical to playing basketball at the NBA level. That's what happens when you spend two top picks (three if you count that we had to trade to get the top pick) on Ben and Fultz, neither of whom are playing.

Embiid would unironically be better off with Jokic's roster (and that says nothing about what might happen if/when Murray and MPJ return). Monte Morris, Will Barton, and Aaron Gordon can at least make entry passes. Everyone on the Sixers are either bad passers (Tobi), too small (Curry and Maxey) to throw it over the top of the defense, or someone you don't want to touch the ball more than 2 seconds a time (Danny and Matisse).

As for all this Jokic is better talk, let me know when Jokic isn't posting negative net ratings in the playoffs and starts winning at anywhere near the same rate as Embiid.

This year:

Jokic 16-12 (.571) when he plays
Embiid 15-8 (.652) when he plays

Last year:

Jokic 47-25 (.653) when he plays
Embiid 39-12 (.765) when he plays

[Bum Adebayo]

Its mind blowing that we have a top 5 player and people wants to trade him.

For what? To rebuild and be in the same position in 5,6 years at least? And that would be the best case scenario.

When you are lucky to have a generational talent like Biid you go all in and try to win, you dont trade them away.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Yeah Simmons is easier to build around amirite?

[elchengue20]

Its mind blowing that we have a top 5 player and people wants to trade him.

For what? To rebuild and be in the same position in 5,6 years at least? And that would be the best case scenario.

When you are lucky to have a generational talent like Biid you go all in and try to win, you dont trade them away.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Why its hard to build around him?

Hes a 5 who can shoot, defend, create his own shot and even run the floor a little. Its a tremendous luxury for any team.

Problem is we never gave him a good guard, only Jimmy for half a season. And the fit with Simmons had some major issues on offense.

The other "stars" were an old Al Horford who plays the same position than him and Tobias freaking Harris, a player who cant shoot 3's or defend and makes 38M/yr.


The real problem is we did a terrible job bulding around him.

[76ciology]

Ok. Joel Embiid GOAT. Just need the right role players to play with and it’s championship. No need top tier stars.

[76ciology]

Its mind blowing that we have a top 5 player and people wants to trade him.

For what? To rebuild and be in the same position in 5,6 years at least? And that would be the best case scenario.

When you are lucky to have a generational talent like Biid you go all in and try to win, you dont trade them away.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Why its hard to build around him?

Hes a 5 who can shoot, defend, create his own shot and even run the floor a little. Its a tremendous luxury for any team.

Problem is we never gave him a good guard, only Jimmy for half a season. And the fit with Simmons had some major issues on offense.

The other "stars" were an old Al Horford who plays the same position than him and Tobias freaking Harris, a player who cant shoot 3's or defend and makes 38M/yr.


The real problem is we did a terrible job bulding around him.

The problem is his availability and performance is very inconsistent. Just look at how many games he plays on average every season while his availability and performance is a russian roulette in the playoffs.

If Embiid has the stamina and durability of Giannis, IMO we’d win that Hawks series. If Embiid is an ironman like LeBron at 27-30 years old where he can plays almost all games with heavy minutes and way more consistent, you wouldnt need more supporting cast than what he has right now.

And because Embiid has those games where he disappears, either physically or in spirit, Morey has to find a top tier star who can carry the team on those situations.

Its not a shot on Embiid but it’s accepting for who he is and building for who he is.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Why its hard to build around him?

Hes a 5 who can shoot, defend, create his own shot and even run the floor a little. Its a tremendous luxury for any team.

Problem is we never gave him a good guard, only Jimmy for half a season. And the fit with Simmons had some major issues on offense.

The other "stars" were an old Al Horford who plays the same position than him and Tobias freaking Harris, a player who cant shoot 3's or defend and makes 38M/yr.


The real problem is we did a terrible job bulding around him.

The problem is his availability and performance is very inconsistent. Just look at how many games he plays on average every season while his availability and performance is a russian roulette in the playoffs.

If Embiid has the stamina and durability of Giannis, IMO we’d win that Hawks series. If Embiid is an ironman like LeBron at 27-30 years old where he can plays almost all games with heavy minutes and way more consistent, you wouldnt need more supporting cast than what he has right now.

And because Embiid has those games where he disappears, either physically or in spirit, Morey has to find a top tier star who can carry the team on those situations.

Its not a shot on Embiid but it’s accepting for who he is and building for who he is.

No **** on the availability dude. We all know that. Performance is not inconsistent. He does not have consistent players around him. HIs down games are in line with the down games of other stars. You were just shown an example of Curry's shooting numbers. That dude has sucked on Christmas day, and has had bad playoff games. Just stop with this man. Yes Embiid is injury prone, but that does not mean he is not a once in a generation talent, when healthy can win us a chip. But with all players, like KD, and LeBron, and Curry, you need the right balance on your team. It's just funny because when did we ever have that? Is it fair to evaluate him if we don't have that???

The one time we had that we were a quadruple bounce away from OT in the Semis against the eventual champions. So, let's stop trying to over analyse this ****, and trying to be the contrarian again.

[eyeatoma]

Its mind blowing that we have a top 5 player and people wants to trade him.

For what? To rebuild and be in the same position in 5,6 years at least? And that would be the best case scenario.

When you are lucky to have a generational talent like Biid you go all in and try to win, you dont trade them away.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Why its hard to build around him?

Hes a 5 who can shoot, defend, create his own shot and even run the floor a little. Its a tremendous luxury for any team.

Problem is we never gave him a good guard, only Jimmy for half a season. And the fit with Simmons had some major issues on offense.

The other "stars" were an old Al Horford who plays the same position than him and Tobias freaking Harris, a player who cant shoot 3's or defend and makes 38M/yr.


The real problem is we did a terrible job bulding around him.

Agreed!

I feel like I'm in the twilighit zone with some of the takes others are making about him being hard to build around. **** isn't rocket science. Get a team with an actual perimeter player who can set you up, and surround him with shooters, and decent defenders, and this team is a contender. Instead we have a great defender who won't shoot, a young talent who is learning to shoot, and play with a bunch of vets, an overpaid midrange shooter, who likes to post up, a bitch Aussie who gave up on the team, a Turk who is MIA half the time... The only legit shooter we have doesn't take enough shots.

Like some of you really think he is supposed to drag this slop to the promised land?

[eyeatoma]

I think what differentiates him for other top players is there’s less variance to it. Like there’s like 90+% chance that you’ll get KD, Steph or Giannis you know every game. As inconsistent Iverson was back then, Embiid’s performance and availability has a higher variance IMO.

This is just pure selection bias.

Just from this year, Steph has gone...

4-21 for 12 points.
2-10 for 12 points.
6-15 for 15 points.
6-20 for 18 points (against us, no less).
5-21 for 21 points.

All of those players you mention have their share of bad games. You just don't watch them night in and night out. If you did, you wouldn't see a player that's wildly more consistent.

Let's not even talk about your habit of using DBPM to assess defense. It's basically one step from saying rebounds and blocks measure a player's defensive contributions.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Who's easier to build around?

You need ballhandlers and spacing (which almost everyone needs, see Luka struggling this year because his team sucks from deep and driving lanes are closed).

And that's about it. Embiid can cover weaker perimeter defenders better than almost anyone not named Gobert.

Every NBA player needs adequate shooting around them or teams can just collapse and trap/double them. Almost every NBA player needs a secondary ballhandler so they can make plays against unbalanced offenses when they force them to shift.

The issues the Sixers have is that they're deficient at areas that are critical to playing basketball at the NBA level. That's what happens when you spend two top picks (three if you count that we had to trade to get the top pick) on Ben and Fultz, neither of whom are playing.

Embiid would unironically be better off with Jokic's roster (and that says nothing about what might happen if/when Murray and MPJ return). Monte Morris, Will Barton, and Aaron Gordon can at least make entry passes. Everyone on the Sixers are either bad passers (Tobi), too small (Curry and Maxey) to throw it over the top of the defense, or someone you don't want to touch the ball more than 2 seconds a time (Danny and Matisse).

As for all this Jokic is better talk, let me know when Jokic isn't posting negative net ratings in the playoffs and starts winning at anywhere near the same rate as Embiid.

This year:

Jokic 16-12 (.571) when he plays
Embiid 15-8 (.652) when he plays

Last year:

Jokic 47-25 (.653) when he plays
Embiid 39-12 (.765) when he plays

K this right here, ended all discussion. Preach dude. 1000% this!

[mjkvol]

Its mind blowing that we have a top 5 player and people wants to trade him.

For what? To rebuild and be in the same position in 5,6 years at least? And that would be the best case scenario.

When you are lucky to have a generational talent like Biid you go all in and try to win, you dont trade them away.

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

I keep hearing that, but look at the impact a player like Butler had, and might have had if Harris was never traded for and Simmons was dealt in that off season while Butler was retained.

The problem is Morey possibly not having the ammunition to go and get a player like Butler because of the mistakes made here. It can still be done, but it will take a series of moves, and a bit of patience and luck.

[mjkvol]

If Embiid has the stamina and durability of Giannis, IMO we’d win that Hawks series. If Embiid is an ironman like LeBron at 27-30 years old where he can plays almost all games with heavy minutes and way more consistent, you wouldnt need more supporting cast than what he has right now.

Tell me, when did "iron man" James ever win a damn thing without a supporting cast including at least one elite player? He got to finals early on with the Cavs mainly because the East was a joke, and would only have won one title with that loaded Heat team if the Spurs had closed them out in game 6 as they should have (5 pt. lead with less than 30 seconds left), and only won in Cleveland because the league stepped in. The bubble was a f***king farce.

Maybe the problem is that Embiid never took meetings in hotel rooms with other star players to build his own team.

[elchengue20]

Ok. Joel Embiid GOAT. Just need the right role players to play with and it’s championship. No need top tier stars.

Nobody saying that. There isnt ONE player in the NBA who can win a championship alone, not even LBJ or Durant, so what you saying makes no sense at all.


We need an All Star guard. We never gave him one.

[eyeatoma]

Ok. Joel Embiid GOAT. Just need the right role players to play with and it’s championship. No need top tier stars.

Dude, you are just not getting it.

[mjkvol]

Ok. Joel Embiid GOAT. Just need the right role players to play with and it’s championship. No need top tier stars.

Tell me, who here has suggested anything like that? And please list the players who have won championships without at least a second star and a supporting cast of role players that actually fits with what the stars do best.

[elchengue20]

Embiid is really hard to build around

Don’t trade him but realise that the chances of winning with him are incredibly unlikely

Why its hard to build around him?

Hes a 5 who can shoot, defend, create his own shot and even run the floor a little. Its a tremendous luxury for any team.

Problem is we never gave him a good guard, only Jimmy for half a season. And the fit with Simmons had some major issues on offense.

The other "stars" were an old Al Horford who plays the same position than him and Tobias freaking Harris, a player who cant shoot 3's or defend and makes 38M/yr.


The real problem is we did a terrible job bulding around him.

The problem is his availability and performance is very inconsistent. Just look at how many games he plays on average every season while his availability and performance is a russian roulette in the playoffs.

If Embiid has the stamina and durability of Giannis, IMO we’d win that Hawks series. If Embiid is an ironman like LeBron at 27-30 years old where he can plays almost all games with heavy minutes and way more consistent, you wouldnt need more supporting cast than what he has right now.

And because Embiid has those games where he disappears, either physically or in spirit, Morey has to find a top tier star who can carry the team on those situations.

Its not a shot on Embiid but it’s accepting for who he is and building for who he is.

Biid is only 27, taking over in the Playoffs takes a learning curve. Hes just entering his peak play. Even all time greats had to fail several times before winning in the Playoffs. Especially when they dont have another star to help them. Actually 27/28 is usually the age when they put it all together and start to dominate consistenly.

Also,nobody wins in the NBA with Tobias Harris as your 2nd best player, not even prime LBJ.

[Bum Adebayo]

We've seen what Jokic does when Murray is not there complimenting him in terms of results, not that much honestly, and it's not his fault, it is what it is with centers needing a scoring guard to help them.

[erving4ever]

Read on Twitter

[TeamHigh]

Ok. Joel Embiid GOAT. Just need the right role players to play with and it’s championship. No need top tier stars.

Now you're just being passive aggressive. You definitely need top tier players around him to be a contender. But so does everyone else. This is not a particular needs of Embiid issue, this is a larger issue with trying to win at the NBA level. You can't just have one great player and a surround him with a bunch of weird fitting, sub-optimal pieces and hope to contend for titles. Wilt himself couldn't do it against a much less talented league.

The team surrounded Embiid with 2 max level players who combined for 2.7 3pA a game last year after the all-star break. I challenge you to find any team with 2 well paid, starting players who combine for that low a number, much less trying to surround a post player with that kind of output.

This year, none of our players are even in the top 65 in 3ptA per game. We're not talking about signing a bunch elite motion shooters, we're talking about people who are even able to get their shots off. We have no volume shooters, no playmakers, and no good entry passers and it's supposed to be Embiid's fault for being hard to build around?

[76ciology]

Embiid does not need just a star. Ben Simmons was a star, so was Jimmy.

Embiid needs an MVP caliber teammate to play with.

Not like Jrue or Middleton with Giannis.
Not like Klay or Draymond with Steph.
Not like post prime Jason Kidd and post prime Shawn Marion with Dirk.
Not like Tony Parker or Ginobili with Duncan.

Biid needs Harden or Dame. Someone who can carry the team when he’s either physical or spiritually unavailable, which happens more often than other top tier stars.

Biid needs an MVP caliber teammate.
He can’t win with just a star.

Its not saying he is an inferior player so dont get easily offended.

[elchengue20]

The hard player to build around is Ben Simmons.

A guard who cant shoot at all. Thats a hard player to build around.

Our biggest mistake was trying to make the Biid/Ben duo work for too long, when the fit wasnt never going to be there and Biid was clearly the better player.

Saying is hard to build around your Center because he coudnt win with a point guard who cant shoot outside 10 ft its really really stupid.

To make things worst, the other "star" is a power forward who likes to post up and doesnt like to shoot 3's, and doesnt play defense.


All the supporting casts you mentioned are way better than anything he had here, with maaaybe the exception of the half year we had Jimmy.



Biid + Parker/Ginobili/Bowen/Mills would be the best team in the NBA right now.

Biid + Klay/Iggy/Draymond(flip him for an All Star guard) also would be an insane team.

Biid + Jrue/Middelton/PJ Tucker would be way better than the supporting cast of the last 2 or 3 seasons, at least.

Biid + old Kidd/old Marion/ DPOY Chandler (flip him for an All Star guard) would also be a damn solid team. (and that championship was an outlier).

[mjkvol]

Embiid does not need just a star. Ben Simmons was a star, so was Jimmy.

Embiid needs an MVP caliber teammate to play with.

Not like Jrue or Middleton with Giannis.
Not like Klay or Draymond with Steph.
Not like post prime Jason Kidd and post prime Shawn Marion with Dirk.
Not like Tony Parker or Ginobili with Duncan.

Biid needs Harden or Dame. Someone who can carry the team when he’s either physical or spiritually unavailable, which happens more often than other top tier stars.

Biid needs an MVP caliber teammate.
He can’t win with just a star.

Its not saying he is an inferior player so dont get easily offended.

No one is 'offended', but what you're saying is ridiculous. As was just stated, give Embiid any of those supporting casts and the Sixers are competing for a championship.