Magic Johnson's absurd TS%

[Gibson22]

I think we al know the qualities of Magic Johnson in transition, postup creation, overall passing, playmaking, and how successfful his team was (5 titles, 4 finals, 1 WCF, 1 WCSF 1 WC1ROUND are ALL of his results leaving out 1996) especially offensively, where the lakers ranked as the best offense in the league many many times and always had elite results.

But I don't know if I've ever seen his true shooting mentioned. He was above 60% TS in all but 3 years in the league, and his lowest was 58,1%. The reason was that he was an excellent free throw shooter, a very underrated midrange shooter and he could score at the rim and in the post. Compared to the league average of that era (rTS%) these numbers are pretty absurd:
80: +7,1
81: +4,8
82: +5,1
83: +7,2
84: +8,5
85: +9,4
86: +6,9
87: +6,4
88: +4,3
89: +8,8
90: +8,5
91: +8,9
96: +7.

So, this guy in his prime was basically averaging 20/12/7 on +8 rTS% while leading the #1 offense and reaching the finals every single year. He wasn't the greatest defender but I think it's worth noting that he was averaging 2 spg at 6'8", while giving his team the luxury to not have a small guy on the floor playing pg. Even more worth noting that his career was cut short at 32, while he was probably the 2nd best player in the world, after carrying a completely different team (divac worthy perkins scott magic ac green) from his showtime lakers to the finals.
Obviously, he had the perfect roster around him and he's imo the "luckiest" nba goat of all time as far as teammates etc. but I think that's incredibly impressive

[Gibson22]

Follow up questions:
1)given these facts, is he the best offensive player ever, or do you think they are inflated by having an incredible roster and coaching?
2) Does he have a legit case for goat, or does his lack of longevity (Which is not his fault, especially considering that his game wasn't built on athleticism and scoring) and defense hurt him too much?

[giberish]

IMO later career Magic was similar to Jokic. Both guys passing skills made teams very reluctant to bring help defense - even when they had a mismatch inside. This meant that they got easier looks inside and allowed them to consistently score efficiently.

[The Master]

Magic with longevity would've been on par with big 4 (LeBron, Jordan, Russell, KAJ) in all-time rankings, especially considering he would've aged really well probably with his playing style and health: legit case for OGOAT, amazing peak and accolades, even a bit underrated as a defender.

But his longevity makes him 5-9 type of an alltimer.

[Godymas]

if someone puts magic top 5 i see no issue with it, he is the GOAT Laker and a legendary player and the best PG all time

[Statlanta]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

[magicman1978]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

Magic's stats were better against the Eastern conference.

[thebigbird]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

[Johnny Bball]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

Although I disagree completely with his premise....How did you misunderstand what he wrote so badly.

[DxC17]

Follow up questions:
1)given these facts, is he the best offensive player ever, or do you think they are inflated by having an incredible roster and coaching?
2) Does he have a legit case for goat, or does his lack of longevity (Which is not his fault, especially considering that his game wasn't built on athleticism and scoring) and defense hurt him too much?

Jordan averaged 33 ppg & 6 apg on around +8 rTS% from 86-87 to the end of the 1st peat in 92-93. He had a ridiculous peak from 89-91 averaging 34 ppg on +10 rTS% which was otherworldly. As far as offensive GOATs go, I have a very hard time picking anyone other than Jordan in that 7 year stretch because of the sheer volume & efficiency. While he lacked the assist totals, he was still an adept playmaker when called upon. And the massive bump you get from his scoring output puts him over the top of basically everyone else.

As far as orchestrating & facilitating offense goes, it's hard to pick anyone other than Magic. He was a very underrated scorer, but I would imagine he'd have scalability problems with efficiency on increased volume. But as the 87 finals showed, he was capable of doing it in bursts when it counted.

[thebigbird]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

Although I disagree completely with his premise....How did you misunderstand what he wrote so badly.

He’s arguing that Magic’s stats are inflated because of playing in a weak conference, and then implied the same thing about LeBron. Magic’s stats were better against the East than the West so his statement is just completely false.

[The Master]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron in his career averaged 26.7 - 7.6 - 7.6 on 58.5 TS% against the West and 27.2 - 7.3 - 7.3 on 58.8 TS% against the East.

[cupcakesnake]

He was mobile Jokic.

[bbalnation]

This is neat. I never realized his TS% was so high relative to his peers.

My assumption is that someone like Magic would have eventually improved his three (at least his set shot with that form) once its relative importance to winning was increased. He was a proven winner after all:

5 championships, 9 finals in 13 years in the NBA (Lakers)
1 championship in 3 years in the NCAA (Michigan State)

Thank you for sharing.

Are there any defensive advanced stats that are available relative to his counterparts at the time? No pressure to look them up- I'm curious enough to ask, but not enough to look them up myself (yet).

[Lunartic]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

Lebron will always get his individually but it's fair to say he has had less success in the West than in the East. He's missed the playoffs for the first time in ages, he lost in the first round for the first time ever, won a title against depleted everyone, and is currently the 7th seed and in the play-in tournament.

It's also not unreasonable to say Lebron left the East right before it surpassed the West in terms of talent. The Bucks/Sixers/Heat/Bulls/Nets would all give the Lebron Cavs a run for their money.

[thebigbird]

Magic benefitted from a weak conference just like LeBron did. Some of those stats are inflated.

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

Lebron will always get his individually but it's fair to say he has had less success in the West than in the East. He's missed the playoffs for the first time in ages, he lost in the first round for the first time ever, won a title against depleted everyone, and is currently the 7th seed and in the play-in tournament.

It's also not unreasonable to say Lebron left the East right before it surpassed the West in terms of talent. The Bucks/Sixers/Heat/Bulls/Nets would all give the Lebron Cavs a run for their money.

It’s really not fair to say that at all lol. He went to the West in his 16th season. He’s played years 16, 17, 18, and 19 in the West. You’re comparing what he did in his prime in the east to what he’s done post prime in the West. And even then, he’s won 1 title in 3 years in the West compared to 3 rings in 15 years in the east.

[JN61]

2nd Best PG who ever lived:

+8.6
+7.5
+9.5
+9.7
+8.2
+7.6
+9.0
+9.0
+8.8
+6.6
+6.3
+3.6

61-72. Big O. In a league of big men and no 3 point shooting. Not too shabby. Had Robertson won championship of his own while leading Royals I don't think there would be any questions who is the best PG ever. If they had counted assists like in 80s and today Robertson would have probably averaged 15+ for 8-9 seasons.

[Lalouie]

he was 6'9, something lebron uses well

while we're at it, whenever there's talk about "what ifs",,,what if magic hadn't come down with hiv?????!!!!! at 6'9 his size alone plus the uniqueness of his skillset we could've seen him play 20yrs easily to 2001 at least. as it was 4years were chopped out of his career and he made a VERY brief comeback in '96

what could have been a 20yr career ended up as 12yrs

[Lunartic]

LeBron’s in his 19th season averaging 28/7/7 on 62% TS while playing in the almighty western conference. You guys really need to give up this “weak conference” argument. It’s embarrassing.

Lebron will always get his individually but it's fair to say he has had less success in the West than in the East. He's missed the playoffs for the first time in ages, he lost in the first round for the first time ever, won a title against depleted everyone, and is currently the 7th seed and in the play-in tournament.

It's also not unreasonable to say Lebron left the East right before it surpassed the West in terms of talent. The Bucks/Sixers/Heat/Bulls/Nets would all give the Lebron Cavs a run for their money.

It’s really not fair to say that at all lol. He went to the West in his 16th season. He’s played years 16, 17, 18, and 19 in the West. You’re comparing what he did in his prime in the east to what he’s done post prime in the West. And even then, he’s won 1 title in 3 years in the West compared to 3 rings in 15 years in the east.

There's always circumstances that play an impact. You're quick to excuse Lebron's failures due to his age but prop up his successes despite them coming against old opponents like the Celtics or Spurs. Lebron Heat don't beat a prime Tim Duncan/Gino/Parker nor does he overcome non-geriatric Celtics.

[70sFan]

People in general don't realize how good Magic was as a scorer. It's extremely underrated part of his game, he didn't reach the next level until he polished his jumper and post game.

Follow up questions:
1)given these facts, is he the best offensive player ever, or do you think they are inflated by having an incredible roster and coaching?
2) Does he have a legit case for goat, or does his lack of longevity (Which is not his fault, especially considering that his game wasn't built on athleticism and scoring) and defense hurt him too much?

1. He's absolutely in that conversation and to be honest, he's my choice for the GOAT offensive player. At his peak he was like Jokic, but much more dynamic with GOAT transition offense.

2. I think the lack of longevity hurts him too much.