76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Tor_Raps]

Vince had 2.5 years when he was traded from a poorly performing raptors team.

Again this is unprecedented a player of Simmons contract length (4 years) and team coming off 1 seed and competing has a player demanded out.

Never has ever happen before. Ever

Usually it’s on friendly terms (Paul George to Clippers) but those guys didn’t cut off contact with their prospective teams and refused to show up.

Simmons team (klutch) just has not gone around this the right way. If he had shown up. Played 10-15 games. Put up his usual 16/8/8 ben would have been long gone by now.
Rather he sits at home trying to plot out the next mental health evaluation bogus zoom calls he’s got to make in between his call of duty video games.

I'd say the difference between 2.5 and 4 years is semantics. Both are locked in what most consider longterm.

Agreed that if Simmons played then he probably would have been traded by now. But that would have came at the expense of the team he will be going to so that really wouldn't be in his interest either. I guess we'll find out how it ends.

2.5 to 4 year is semantics in what universe? You have to be trolling to make that statement.

2.5 to 3.5 is semantics, yes. There's a reason why teams aren't lining up for a guy who has proven to be a playoff failure as the 2nd option. Some are even considering Simmons overpaid because he doesn't look like he can be the 1st or 2nd best player on a championship team. That wouldn't make 3.5 more years at a max salary such a great deal.

[PennSports]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

it is only a waste if you trade for another albatross contract like McCollum who does not move the needle. That goes from wasting 30 games of Embiid's prime to wasting the entirety of it. It will make the Sixers better than they currently are but still not good enough. I would sooner take picks and prospects than something that handcuffs me to Tobias and CJ taking up all my cap for the next 3 years. Optionality route >>>>

The thing with waiting is that the Sixers have 0 clue on who will eventually make a trade request and whether they'd want to come to Philly. How many teams have traded a disgruntled star for a better one ever? Morey seems to be delusional here and is probably kicking himself for not going harder after Harden.

Picks and prospects will probably lead to an eventual Embiid trade request. This isn't 2K where guys will wait patiently for the team to figure it out. They already blew it by letting Butler go so let's see how the Simmons situation ends.

he wasnt dealt the best hand, have disgruntled Harden. Leave that situation and immediately Simmons is disgruntled. I only said i preferred picks and prospects over middling talent to make the team slightly better now at the detriment to the long term success of the team. I dont think Fertita was ever gonna accept a deal from Morey, Ben and Thybulle were told they were being traded and Fertita pulled out only to accept the Nets poo poo platter instead which has net them zero good players from the trade for now and likely wont have good picks for several years from them. The Sixers offer was better bar none, it is just the sixers luck that we were the one team they wouldnt operate with. Embiid is very close to Morey, they are on the same page. The longer you wait the more avenues are likely to open up while you can still fall back on these middling offers if Embiid taps out of the situation all together. I dont see a downside to waiting, either Ben gets tired of losing 10s of millions and returns to the team or you have a chance at better return. I think if this goes beyond the trade deadline he will be gone in the offseason or at the draft.

[Flash4thewin]

I'd say the difference between 2.5 and 4 years is semantics. Both are locked in what most consider longterm.

Agreed that if Simmons played then he probably would have been traded by now. But that would have came at the expense of the team he will be going to so that really wouldn't be in his interest either. I guess we'll find out how it ends.

2.5 to 4 year is semantics in what universe? You have to be trolling to make that statement.

2.5 to 3.5 is semantics, yes. There's a reason why teams aren't lining up for a guy who has proven to be a playoff failure as the 2nd option. Some are even considering Simmons overpaid because he doesn't look like he can be the 1st or 2nd best player on a championship team. That wouldn't make 3.5 more years at a max salary such a great deal.

From 2.5 to 4 is a 60% difference. If you want to argue a 60% means nothing, more power to you.

Also its not hard to read the room around the NBA. Dame is asking for drastic changes which thus far have not happened. Dame might not even make the playoffs or best case gets knocked out in the first round. Where there is smoke there is fire, would anyone be surprised or shocked if Dame demands a trade to a contender this offseason? Beal might not even make the playoffs in the East, its not rocket science or fortune telling to see the big picture.

[Nuntius]

And Morey is merely waiting for a trade offer "to improve the team and get Embiid the help he needs." That's all he's doing...and it's driving you crazy (why you keep posting and posting on this topic).

Almost all the Simmons trades I've seen posted to RealGM--and/or rumored in the media--make the Sixers worse both for the short-term and the long-term. And yes, it's understandable--other GMs (and RealGM posters) are hoping for a panic trade whereby their team gets an all-NBA talent (and despite his flaws Ben Simmons is such a talent) for pennies on the dollar.

Equally understandable, however, is Morey's desire to wait. Injuries are starting to pile up throughout the league, as are the disappointments in several key markets. Maybe a star gets injured or demands out, or maybe Simmons himself comes around and decides to end his unpaid vacation (and return to try to improve his trade value). Quite possibly, a GM somewhere soon will begin to feel the need to make a "win now" move...and the offers for Simmons will improve accordingly.

Or they won't...and Morey continues to do nothing. I mean, again, it's not as if the crap people are suggesting here--or supposedly offering per the media--represent getting Embiid "the help he needs." Given the lose-lose situation this became once Simmons' camp made it clear he would no longer play for the team (and why he wouldn't play , and where he would deign to play ), Morey has had a tough hand to play. And yes, Morey may ultimately decide to go with one of these crap offers. However, the crap trade offers (that again hurt the team short-term and long-term) will continue to be available moving forward; might as well wait a little longer on the slight possibility of something better coming along.

It really isn't driving me crazy but I can see why someone could see it like that. I do have a lot of posts in this thread, that's definitely true. I also will generally keep replying to people who reply to me even if the conversation goes in circles. I enjoy debating (I was in a debating team in high school) and I don't like ducking out of a conversation. I am aware that this can make me insufferable at times. You are free to form any kind of opinion you want based on that and on my posting habits.

And it is also definitely true that I am biased against Morey. Just like I was biased against Ainge. GMs who negotiate in bad faith annoy me, I'm definitely guilty of that.

[taikibansei]

And Morey is merely waiting for a trade offer "to improve the team and get Embiid the help he needs." That's all he's doing...and it's driving you crazy (why you keep posting and posting on this topic).

Almost all the Simmons trades I've seen posted to RealGM--and/or rumored in the media--make the Sixers worse both for the short-term and the long-term. And yes, it's understandable--other GMs (and RealGM posters) are hoping for a panic trade whereby their team gets an all-NBA talent (and despite his flaws Ben Simmons is such a talent) for pennies on the dollar.

Equally understandable, however, is Morey's desire to wait. Injuries are starting to pile up throughout the league, as are the disappointments in several key markets. Maybe a star gets injured or demands out, or maybe Simmons himself comes around and decides to end his unpaid vacation (and return to try to improve his trade value). Quite possibly, a GM somewhere soon will begin to feel the need to make a "win now" move...and the offers for Simmons will improve accordingly.

Or they won't...and Morey continues to do nothing. I mean, again, it's not as if the crap people are suggesting here--or supposedly offering per the media--represent getting Embiid "the help he needs." Given the lose-lose situation this became once Simmons' camp made it clear he would no longer play for the team (and why he wouldn't play , and where he would deign to play ), Morey has had a tough hand to play. And yes, Morey may ultimately decide to go with one of these crap offers. However, the crap trade offers (that again hurt the team short-term and long-term) will continue to be available moving forward; might as well wait a little longer on the slight possibility of something better coming along.

It really isn't driving me crazy but I can see why someone could see it like that. I do have a lot of posts in this thread, that's definitely true. I also will generally keep replying to people who reply to me even if the conversation goes in circles. I enjoy debating (I was in a debating team in high school) and I don't like ducking out of a conversation. I am aware that this can make me insufferable at times. You are free to form any kind of opinion you want based on that and on my posting habits.

And it is also definitely true that I am biased against Morey. Just like I was biased against Ainge. GMs who negotiate in bad faith annoy me, I'm definitely guilty of that.

Nah, we're good. I usually enjoy your posts, especially because we often agree! This particular topic though...I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Nuntius]

Do you really think that other GM's "hang up the phone" when Morey calls? Huh?

Not from the get go, no, and I never claimed that. What I said is that it is much easier to hang up the phone to him and I do believe that to be true. If Morey calls another GM and he starts making unreasonable offers then I do believe that it's much easier to hang up the phone to him, yes.

Again - I do respect you as a poster very much, but this smacks of hyperbole.

There is a REASON why guys who worked under Morey are sitting in their own chairs throughout the league. The guy knows his stuff.

There's no denying that Morey knows his stuff when it comes to analytics.

And, unlike you, I am not getting hung up in all of the "OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT MOREY IS ASKING FOR? OMG OMG OMG" stuff that others get wrapped up in. Either there is a deal to be made or there isn't. Morey didn't seem to have a problem doing a deal with Presti (Horford for Green). He didn't seem to have a problem doing a deal with Dallas (Richardson for Curry). Two deals last season that look fairly balanced...and two deals that Morey did to acquire two starters for a team that wound up with the 1 seed in the East.

Not bad.

Trading a starter/role player for another starter/role player is something that every GM around the league does. The contentious trades are usually those who involve players who are stars or at least close to that. It's the big name trades. Those are the kind of trades Ainge was unable to swing for the Celtics (they kept being rumored for big name players and they came up empty time after time after time) and it looks like Morey is trending that way as well.

At the risk of sounding condenscending, I really do think you are better than this. Morey is trying to maximize the last major chip he has to fix the personnel holes in this roster. He is playing the long game on this one (befitting the 3-5 year timeline they have with Embiid), and he has the support of the overwhelming amount of knowledgable Sixers fans. At the end of the day, I don't get wrapped up in the "HAWT TAKEZ" that populate the GB.

Do you?

I try to stay away from hot takes as well. Am I perfect? **** no. If my opinion on this matter can be considered a hot take then it is what it is.

[Nuntius]

And Morey is merely waiting for a trade offer "to improve the team and get Embiid the help he needs." That's all he's doing...and it's driving you crazy (why you keep posting and posting on this topic).

Almost all the Simmons trades I've seen posted to RealGM--and/or rumored in the media--make the Sixers worse both for the short-term and the long-term. And yes, it's understandable--other GMs (and RealGM posters) are hoping for a panic trade whereby their team gets an all-NBA talent (and despite his flaws Ben Simmons is such a talent) for pennies on the dollar.

Equally understandable, however, is Morey's desire to wait. Injuries are starting to pile up throughout the league, as are the disappointments in several key markets. Maybe a star gets injured or demands out, or maybe Simmons himself comes around and decides to end his unpaid vacation (and return to try to improve his trade value). Quite possibly, a GM somewhere soon will begin to feel the need to make a "win now" move...and the offers for Simmons will improve accordingly.

Or they won't...and Morey continues to do nothing. I mean, again, it's not as if the crap people are suggesting here--or supposedly offering per the media--represent getting Embiid "the help he needs." Given the lose-lose situation this became once Simmons' camp made it clear he would no longer play for the team (and why he wouldn't play , and where he would deign to play ), Morey has had a tough hand to play. And yes, Morey may ultimately decide to go with one of these crap offers. However, the crap trade offers (that again hurt the team short-term and long-term) will continue to be available moving forward; might as well wait a little longer on the slight possibility of something better coming along.

It really isn't driving me crazy but I can see why someone could see it like that. I do have a lot of posts in this thread, that's definitely true. I also will generally keep replying to people who reply to me even if the conversation goes in circles. I enjoy debating (I was in a debating team in high school) and I don't like ducking out of a conversation. I am aware that this can make me insufferable at times. You are free to form any kind of opinion you want based on that and on my posting habits.

And it is also definitely true that I am biased against Morey. Just like I was biased against Ainge. GMs who negotiate in bad faith annoy me, I'm definitely guilty of that.

Nah, we're good. I usually enjoy your posts, especially because we often agree!

I am aware. I see the notifications when you're catching up on a topic that was discussed a couple of weeks ago

This particular topic though...I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yeah, definitely. I'm always glad to agree to disagree with someone. You can disagree with someone and still be amicable towards each other. Also, at the end of the day we're just talking about basketball here. If I cannot be amicable towards someone who I disagree with about basketball then what happens when we discuss more serious topics?

[dhsilv2]

Do you really think that other GM's "hang up the phone" when Morey calls? Huh?

Not from the get go, no, and I never claimed that. What I said is that it is much easier to hang up the phone to him and I do believe that to be true. If Morey calls another GM and he starts making unreasonable offers then I do believe that it's much easier to hang up the phone to him, yes.

Out of curiosity, how many of the rumored trades do you think were initiated by Morey vs the other GM's calling him?

To date for some reason my impression has been that he's mostly fielding calls and thus he's asked for a lot given, they wanted to know what it would take with their pieces minus likely certain guys Morey would have wanted. It actually hadn't occurred to me that Morey might even be calling for any of the trades we've actually heard discussed.

[Nuntius]

Do you really think that other GM's "hang up the phone" when Morey calls? Huh?

Not from the get go, no, and I never claimed that. What I said is that it is much easier to hang up the phone to him and I do believe that to be true. If Morey calls another GM and he starts making unreasonable offers then I do believe that it's much easier to hang up the phone to him, yes.

Out of curiosity, how many of the rumored trades do you think were initiated by Morey vs the other GM's calling him?

To date for some reason my impression has been that he's mostly fielding calls and thus he's asked for a lot given, they wanted to know what it would take with their pieces minus likely certain guys Morey would have wanted. It actually hadn't occurred to me that Morey might even be calling for any of the trades we've actually heard discussed.

A fair number of them. Portland and Toronto were initiated by Morey, imo.

[dhsilv2]

Not from the get go, no, and I never claimed that. What I said is that it is much easier to hang up the phone to him and I do believe that to be true. If Morey calls another GM and he starts making unreasonable offers then I do believe that it's much easier to hang up the phone to him, yes.

Out of curiosity, how many of the rumored trades do you think were initiated by Morey vs the other GM's calling him?

To date for some reason my impression has been that he's mostly fielding calls and thus he's asked for a lot given, they wanted to know what it would take with their pieces minus likely certain guys Morey would have wanted. It actually hadn't occurred to me that Morey might even be calling for any of the trades we've actually heard discussed.

A fair number of them. Portland and Toronto were initiated by Morey, imo.

I could see Morey calling Portland with something like "hey looking to see where you are with lillard". And then perhaps their GM tried to test the CJ waters. Both sides essentially saying no thanks at this time. I can't see Morey calling Toronto this year. Maybe when lowry when there...?

[bebopdeluxe]

Not from the get go, no, and I never claimed that. What I said is that it is much easier to hang up the phone to him and I do believe that to be true. If Morey calls another GM and he starts making unreasonable offers then I do believe that it's much easier to hang up the phone to him, yes.

Out of curiosity, how many of the rumored trades do you think were initiated by Morey vs the other GM's calling him?

To date for some reason my impression has been that he's mostly fielding calls and thus he's asked for a lot given, they wanted to know what it would take with their pieces minus likely certain guys Morey would have wanted. It actually hadn't occurred to me that Morey might even be calling for any of the trades we've actually heard discussed.

A fair number of them. Portland and Toronto were initiated by Morey, imo.

Link, please?

[Tomjas]

There’s nothing on the Raptors that Morey wants so that didn’t happen

[dhsilv2]

Out of curiosity, how many of the rumored trades do you think were initiated by Morey vs the other GM's calling him?

To date for some reason my impression has been that he's mostly fielding calls and thus he's asked for a lot given, they wanted to know what it would take with their pieces minus likely certain guys Morey would have wanted. It actually hadn't occurred to me that Morey might even be calling for any of the trades we've actually heard discussed.

A fair number of them. Portland and Toronto were initiated by Morey, imo.

Link, please?

How would he post a link to his opinion...aka at best a slightly educated guess? We're speculating.

But I guess you could watch this and it might help?

Watch on YouTube

[bebopdeluxe]

There’s nothing on the Raptors that Morey wants so that didn’t happen

Speaking as one Sixers fan, I would be pretty interested in an FVV/OG deal. VanVleet is the kind of 3-point shooting PG we need, and OG can guard multiple positions.

[Pointgod]

So Sixers fans what exactly is the deal for Simmons that get you a top 15 player? I want specifics about what you think the ending deal looks like that gets you Lillard or Beal for example. You guys love to **** on the offers for Simmons but I haven’t seen one realistic offer that gets you a top 25 player.

[Plain Old Josh]

There’s nothing on the Raptors that Morey wants

[Tanks1]

Sixers fan here....cant believe this post is still going....We will wait for the best deal. Do you understand?....
Maxey!!!

10, 9, 8, 76ers

[Gasolina]

To my understanding, the Masai asking for a ridiculous haul for Lowry was due to the latter changing his mind and wanting to play out the rest of the season. So Masai basically only asked for ridiculous packages on the off chance that some team was desperate enough to take it.

We don’t actually know what the content of the package was, this is all rumours likely leaked by the Sixers’ front office to avoid taking heat for not making that trade. Could be true or not, we may never know. However, if Morey could have gotten Lowry for Maxey or for Thybulle and a pick, he was an absolute fool to turn that down.

I also think that if the Sixers were genuinely offered FVV and Anunoby for Simmons they should have taken that deal and ran. They will absolutely not get a better package than that for him. Those guys are good players with championship experience.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Where there is smoke there is fire, would anyone be surprised or shocked if Dame demands a trade to a contender this offseason? Beal might not even make the playoffs in the East, its not rocket science or fortune telling to see the big picture.

The "big picture" also includes teams like Portland and Washington not wanting to build around a disgruntled player like Ben Simmons. Philly seems to think they are just going to unload this headache like it never happened but um, teams are watching and are not jealous. That's a **** sandwich mate and its a wee bit delusional to think teams are lining up to solve your problem at a fair price. When the caliber of player you are waiting for does become available, you aren't going to be the only one at the dance and this saga will detract from the value you can put out there and get in return. When you get passed on for the next star, what is the plan? Morey is stacking a ton of chips on this one option, and the big picture has a ton of ways to fail, that's all I'm saying..

[Yeggo Poleggo]

Ben Simmons is costing the 6ers a championship this year with these antics.

Id be so heated as PHI fan, this is **** up.