Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants)

[Andrew McCeltic]

I thought the whole point of this thread was that we were allowed to do bare knuckle boxing without having to be “cordial”..?

[Andrew McCeltic]

In a true pandemic, every able-bodied healthcare professional available is needed. any and all available treatments are available. the only thing that matters is saving lives. But that’s not what’s happening. There is a sinister motive behind everything that is unfolding.

What the **** are you talking about

[Parliament10]

DJ, The Comedian, Parl & Canman:

Please PM me when you have a moment.

I have a mechanistic question about thread creation.

I am pretty sure that Mr. Loggins, CL, Bad-Thoma, SD, greenroom31 & a bunch of others would be interested in this possibility as well.

Thank you,

Ex

I messaged Can & asked him to please forward my latest PM to the rest of you.

I haven't gotten it yet, Ex. Can you PM it to me?

[canman1971]

DJ, The Comedian, Parl & Canman:

Please PM me when you have a moment.

I have a mechanistic question about thread creation.

I am pretty sure that Mr. Loggins, CL, Bad-Thoma, SD, greenroom31 & a bunch of others would be interested in this possibility as well.

Thank you,

Ex

I messaged Can & asked him to please forward my latest PM to the rest of you.

I haven't gotten it yet, Ex. Can you PM it to me?

I just resent it. Not sure what I did wrong? However, I am on winter break. So my attention span is not as good.

[Parliament10]

I messaged Can & asked him to please forward my latest PM to the rest of you.

I haven't gotten it yet, Ex. Can you PM it to me?

I just resent it. Not sure what I did wrong? However, I am on winter break. So my attention span is not as good.

Thanks Can & Ex. I got it now.

[theman]

Watch on YouTube

[theman]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/omicron-variant-might-help-defend-191714512.html

People who have recovered from an infection with the new omicron coronavirus variant may be able to fend off later infections from the delta variant, according to a new laboratory study carried out by South African scientists.

[Captain_Caveman]

Sorry or actually not sorry.
Unless unavoidable, I am not reading your dangerous disinformation any longer.

Stand 6ft apart. Wear a mask. Quarantine for 14 days
Get vaccinated. Don’t have to wear a mask if vaccinated. Quarantine for 10 days. Get booster. Wear a mask if you are vaccinated. Quarantine for 5 days

THERE IS NO SCIENCE. Just blind followers & order takers. Unvaccinated aren’t a threat to your health. We are a threat to the puppet masters

You don't understand the difference -- or the relationship -- between science and policy.

[Captain_Caveman]

To Ex: Thank You, For sticking to the Subject Matter.

To All: Understanding that this Thread has varying Opinions in it.
However, If I see Excessive Personal Attacks, you'll be Banned.

Stick to the Subject Matter.

~ Parl

Sorry if this seems like back seat modding, but banning ddb at this stage of this thread, after how much has already been posted, is ridiculous.

I disagree with pretty much every single word ddb has posted in this thread, but he has received significantly more personal abuse than he has given out.

+1000
MUCH MORE severe personal abuse went his way.

He has been saying reprehensible things throughout, and been almost as over the top insulting as ex has been. He is literally calling nearly everyone brainwashed morons in nearly every post he makes, and his saving grace has not been directing it at a particular individual but rather everyone?

Keep that ****.

More to the point, he is deadass wrong about everything, argues dishonestly, and doesn't even understand any of this. I am legit disgusted by his posting in this thread. Not even on a political level, but as a human being.

[Mr Loggins]

In other news, if you have the time at some point, I would enjoy dialoguing with you doc to doc about the latest & most efficacious ICU interventions you are currently using. I am not an Intensivist & not currently on the frontlines as u are, but I have provided innumerable endocrine, diabetes & electrolyte consults to people like you over many years.

in term of covid, at this exact moment its pretty simplified at our ICU:

- see if they meet tocilizumab or baricitinib criteria
- steroids
- follow crp/ddimer
- if they get close to intubation give them the canned talk that right now in the twin citites mortality is 80-90% if you go on the ventilator. it'll be 3-6 weeks of paralysis/prone/flolan etc, then you'll come out the other end looking at a trach & peg and a ltach stay

I have to admit that the last 18 months or so my journal reading has fallen behind. Whereas previously I diligently read CHEST and NEJM, lately have been relying on Uptodate to make sure I don't do anything that's anachronistic.

I haven't been in our outpatient clinic for 6 months (we've pretty much mothballed it since we've needed ICU coverage). I had a patient call and ask how they would get a monoclonal ab infusion. I had to google it to discover MNRAP, which is the website the Mn Dep of Health set up to see if patients qualify.

[celtics792244]

Sorry if this seems like back seat modding, but banning ddb at this stage of this thread, after how much has already been posted, is ridiculous.

I disagree with pretty much every single word ddb has posted in this thread, but he has received significantly more personal abuse than he has given out.

+1000
MUCH MORE severe personal abuse went his way.

He has been saying reprehensible things throughout, and been almost as over the top insulting as ex has been. He is literally calling nearly everyone brainwashed morons in nearly every post he makes, and his saving grace has not been directing it at a particular individual but rather everyone?

Keep that ****.

More to the point, he is deadass wrong about everything, argues dishonestly, and doesn't even understand any of this. I am legit disgusted by his posting in this thread. Not even on a political level, but as a human being.

He literally had posters, not ex, wishing openly for his death. So yes, keep that ****.

The most important thing we can transfer to the next generation is freedom. Mandates and passports are not the answer when it comes to policy., Once that starts, it'll never go away. You need to reach people through their hearts and minds, not by force.
Like you, I come away from this board with disgust at how quickly some are to trade freedoms for safety. There needs to be balance. This is where people with ddb views come into play.. to hold some that have tunnel vision in check. Hey, he might be wrong on the science end, we,'ll see, but our constutional rights are not suspended, even in state of emergency.

[exculpatory]

In other news, if you have the time at some point, I would enjoy dialoguing with you doc to doc about the latest & most efficacious ICU interventions you are currently using. I am not an Intensivist & not currently on the frontlines as u are, but I have provided innumerable endocrine, diabetes & electrolyte consults to people like you over many years.

in term of covid, at this exact moment its pretty simplified at our ICU:

- see if they meet tocilizumab or baricitinib criteria
- steroids
- follow crp/ddimer
- if they get close to intubation give them the canned talk that right now in the twin citites mortality is 80-90% if you go on the ventilator. it'll be 3-6 weeks of paralysis/prone/flolan etc, then you'll come out the other end looking at a trach & peg and a ltach stay

I have to admit that the last 18 months or so my journal reading has fallen behind. Whereas previously I diligently read CHEST and NEJM, lately have been relying on Uptodate to make sure I don't do anything that's anachronistic.

I haven't been in our outpatient clinic for 6 months (we've pretty much mothballed it since we've needed ICU coverage). I had a patient call and ask how they would get a monoclonal ab infusion. I had to google it to discover MNRAP, which is the website the Mn Dep of Health set up to see if patients qualify.

UpToDate is awesome.

In terms of attempting to prevent hospitalization in hi risk outpatients - >60, any age & immunocompromised, etc - I believe the choices boil down to GSK’s SOTROVIMAB monoclonal (limited supply?) (unless you sequence Delta - since Omicron apparently is resistant to the Regeneron double monoclonal antibody cocktail), 3 daily IV infusions of the antiviral Remdesevir (see last week’s NEJM), & the very recently EUA’D Pfizer & Merck antiviral pills (have they been launched yet?).

A few other questions:

1. What anticoagulation protocol?
2. How does COVID COAGULOPATHY c/w DIC - I have read/heard more clotting & less bleeding?
3. Does COVID ARDS behave differently than sepsis-related ARDS - vent wise?
4. How do you separate out cytokine storm? How frequently do you see it?
5. Lots of diabetes? Exacerbation of pre-existing DM and/or de novo?
6. Which glucocorticoid & how much & usually what duration?
7. FYI: If & when they can be weaned off steroids, be very careful distinguishing an exogenously suppressed HPA axis w secondary adrenal atrophy which will take varying time to come back VS permanent primary hypoadrenalism 2/2 COVID-induced adrenalitis. (ASIDE: I have always had a special interest in adrenal & pituitary disease - as well as ANY hyper or hypo electrolyte [NA/K/CA & the WAY too often underdiagnosed hypomagnesemic & hypophosphatemic patient]. In that regard, I have always overlapped with the nephrons everywhere I practiced.)

[Bad-Thoma]

+1000
MUCH MORE severe personal abuse went his way.

He has been saying reprehensible things throughout, and been almost as over the top insulting as ex has been. He is literally calling nearly everyone brainwashed morons in nearly every post he makes, and his saving grace has not been directing it at a particular individual but rather everyone?

Keep that ****.

More to the point, he is deadass wrong about everything, argues dishonestly, and doesn't even understand any of this. I am legit disgusted by his posting in this thread. Not even on a political level, but as a human being.

He literally had posters, not ex, wishing openly for his death. So yes, keep that ****.

The most important thing we can transfer to the next generation is freedom. Mandates and passports are not the answer when it comes to policy., Once that starts, it'll never go away. You need to reach people through their hearts and minds, not by force.
Like you, I come away from this board with disgust at how quickly some are to trade freedoms for safety. There needs to be balance. This is where people with ddb views come into play.. to hold some that have tunnel vision in check. Hey, he might be wrong on the science end, we,'ll see, but our constutional rights are not suspended, even in state of emergency.

Just... what?

There's not a lot, if any, people here arguing for mandates. There are a couple that said they would be ok with them. I'm ok with them circumstantially, schools and businesses and cities should be able to make that choice to protect people. You already have to have a passport, a license, insurance, a seatbelt, and everything up to a **** bar code for safety, that's the world we live in. Why is covid, the thing that's actually killing a lot of vulnerable people, the hill you want to die on? As for reaching people through their heart and minds, what the actual **** do you think most of us were doing in this thread by posting information about covid? What do you think ex was trying to do by posting information from actual scientific sources that most of us either don't have access to or wouldn't be able to find?

As for ddb, **** him and his views. When someone is completely down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole to the point the only counterarguments they can find come from completely **** sources you don't lend their viewpoint equal weight, it's not how things work. He's also been a completely offensive **** at times too, which is how he landed in the crosshairs for so many of us. I don't hope he dies of covid and the ONE person who said that to him in anger shouldn't have, that is the only concession you'll get from me about ddb.

I'm not here to tell you to trade your freedom for safety, I'm here telling you that getting vaccinated will end this mess with less damage to our society and sooner. 99% of the posts here are telling you the same. I don't want someone to hold you down and give you "the jab", I want the conversation to continue and you to listen with an open mind until you realize that it's the right thing to do even (especially really) if you aren't the one at risk. If you don't come to that decision despite all the science supporting it and the accumulating and overwhelming evidence that's it orders of magnitude safer than catching covid I still don't want you to be held down and jabbed but I'm also fine if a densely populated city won't allow you to dine indoors without a recent negative test. That's the freedom you might lose, the beachhead some of you are bravely defending, because other than schools and some jobs which already have a TON of precedent when it comes to requiring vaccines that's where most of the mandates are in the USA.

As for your constitutional rights here's an article on what they mean in relation to covid vaccine mandates and a little legal precedent.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/current-constitutional-issues-related-to-vaccine-mandates

[cl2117]

I said it. I shouldn't have. It crossed a line. But when someone mocks your dead relatives and does it just to troll you, well I guess civility goes out the window sometimes.

I just hate the thought of some 13 year old coming onto this website to talk basketball and incidentally going down ddb's dangerous rabbit holes that are just total bull, but which sadly manage to ensnare people somehow.

This pandemic has taken such a toll and it's just hard to sit by and watch people actively contribute to its onslaught while laughing in your face.

[exculpatory]

He has been saying reprehensible things throughout, and been almost as over the top insulting as ex has been. He is literally calling nearly everyone brainwashed morons in nearly every post he makes, and his saving grace has not been directing it at a particular individual but rather everyone?

Keep that ****.

More to the point, he is deadass wrong about everything, argues dishonestly, and doesn't even understand any of this. I am legit disgusted by his posting in this thread. Not even on a political level, but as a human being.

He literally had posters, not ex, wishing openly for his death. So yes, keep that ****.

The most important thing we can transfer to the next generation is freedom. Mandates and passports are not the answer when it comes to policy., Once that starts, it'll never go away. You need to reach people through their hearts and minds, not by force.
Like you, I come away from this board with disgust at how quickly some are to trade freedoms for safety. There needs to be balance. This is where people with ddb views come into play.. to hold some that have tunnel vision in check. Hey, he might be wrong on the science end, we,'ll see, but our constutional rights are not suspended, even in state of emergency.

Just... what?

There's not a lot, if any, people here arguing for mandates. There are a couple that said they would be ok with them. I'm ok with them circumstantially, schools and businesses and cities should be able to make that choice to protect people. You already have to have a passport, a license, insurance, a seatbelt, and everything up to a **** bar code for safety, that's the world we live in. Why is covid, the thing that's actually killing a lot of vulnerable people, the hill you want to die on? As for reaching people through their heart and minds, what the actual **** do you think most of us were doing in this thread by posting information about covid? What do you think ex was trying to do by posting information from actual scientific sources that most of us either don't have access to or wouldn't be able to find?

As for ddb, **** him and his views. When someone is completely down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole to the point the only counterarguments they can find come from completely **** sources you don't lend their viewpoint equal weight, it's not how things work. He's also been a completely offensive **** at times too, which is how he landed in the crosshairs for so many of us. I don't hope he dies of covid and the ONE person who said that to him in anger shouldn't have, that is the only concession you'll get from me about ddb.

I'm not here to tell you to trade your freedom for safety, I'm here telling you that getting vaccinated will end this mess with less damage to our society and sooner. 99% of the posts here are telling you the same. I don't want someone to hold you down and give you "the jab", I want the conversation to continue and you to listen with an open mind until you realize that it's the right thing to do even (especially really) if you aren't the one at risk. If you don't come to that decision despite all the science supporting it and the accumulating and overwhelming evidence that's it orders of magnitude safer than catching covid I still don't want you to be held down and jabbed but I'm also fine if a densely populated city won't allow you to dine indoors without a recent negative test. That's the freedom you might lose, the beachhead some of you are bravely defending, because other than schools and some jobs which already have a TON of precedent when it comes to requiring vaccines that's where most of the mandates are in the USA.

As for your constitutional rights here's an article on what they mean in relation to covid vaccine mandates and a little legal precedent.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/current-constitutional-issues-related-to-vaccine-mandates

Beautiful, Thom.

[exculpatory]

I said it. I shouldn't have. It crossed a line. But when someone mocks your dead relatives and does it just to troll you, well I guess civility goes out the window sometimes.

I just hate the thought of some 13 year old coming onto this website to talk basketball and incidentally going down ddb's dangerous rabbit holes that are just total bull, but which sadly manage to ensnare people somehow.

This pandemic has taken such a toll and it's just hard to sit by and watch people actively contribute to its onslaught while laughing in your face.

I can relate to your utter frustration & anger.
It is the reason that some of my posts degenerated to over the top abusive profanity.

[ddb]

I said it. I shouldn't have. It crossed a line. But when someone mocks your dead relatives and does it just to troll you, well I guess civility goes out the window sometimes.

I just hate the thought of some 13 year old coming onto this website to talk basketball and incidentally going down ddb's dangerous rabbit holes that are just total bull, but which sadly manage to ensnare people somehow.

This pandemic has taken such a toll and it's just hard to sit by and watch people actively contribute to its onslaught while laughing in your face.

Please find a post where I mock your dead relatives. I did no such thing. Perhaps I didn't say the exact words you were looking for? I do have a heart. Stop putting words in my mouth and playing victim. Anyway, moving on.

[Bad-Thoma]

I said it. I shouldn't have. It crossed a line. But when someone mocks your dead relatives and does it just to troll you, well I guess civility goes out the window sometimes.

I just hate the thought of some 13 year old coming onto this website to talk basketball and incidentally going down ddb's dangerous rabbit holes that are just total bull, but which sadly manage to ensnare people somehow.

This pandemic has taken such a toll and it's just hard to sit by and watch people actively contribute to its onslaught while laughing in your face.

You shouldn't have said it but I want to be totally clear that I had all the sympathy in the world for your reasons for saying it at the time.

[ddb]

When are we starting the climate control thread? Also, I suggest we start a thread on religion & politics. Maybe even a dogs VS cats thread. All good topics for a basketball forum.

[exculpatory]

The 8 Most Loyal And Affectionate Dog Breeds - WHO HAVE MORE MEDICAL INSIGHT INTO THE COVID PANDEMIC THAN A FEW OF OUR DANGEROUS/DISINFORMATION-SPEWING INBREDS

https://puppiesandpooches.com/the-8-most-loyal-and-affectionate-dog-breeds/