Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[pepe1991]

The players seem to love Mosley and he's the most engaged and positive coach I've ever seen for us. He's as into the game as the players but not in the grating Jim Boylen way. Franz is blossoming. I don't think you could ask much more from him at this point.

Not have top 5 worst:
offense
defense net rating
points per game scored
field goal percentage
three point percentage
FTA
assists total
asssit to turnover ratio
turnover percentage
effective field goal percentage
true shooting percentage


Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

But back to Mosley. Players like him because they can do whatever the f**+ they want under him, again, no consequences. Nobody is being held accountable for anything. Mo Bamba is center. Guy took 108 threes... and drew 13 shooting fouls. It's mockery to even write it down.
Wendell Carter jr. usage rate and min a game every month got up, his production is getting worst.
Chuma Okeke, literally nba nobody, is taking 11 threes a game in season where he shoots 23% for 3.

It's a joke. His hand clapping after sucessful play (that he didn't draw ) is a joke. Even during interviews he can't elaborate what's wrong with team. He harldy ever mentions any Xs and Os nor i'm confident that he even knows what his job as head coach should be.
He is brought there to secure top 3 worst record. He has no clue what he is doing. He is their fall guy, their JV. Coaches who are there to suck have shelf life, Brett Stevens is best example.

From bigs reciving ball after pick&roll Magic are second worst team.
From ballhandlers perspective, Magic are 9th in possessions used in pick&roll, but 3rd worst in execution.
He loves to run handoffs , Magic do it more often than any other team in nba. Issue ? Well, Magic love to run play that they are 3rd worst in nba at.


And sure, some of this comes from injuries, but most of "injuries" were by design. Starting season with 5 players hurt, and rookie coach. Stage was set to complete dumpseter fire. And dumpsterfire team is.
But Mosley didn't implement apsolutley anything .Defense has no scheme, it's bunch of man to man that every 5 random men can play on street. Offense is bunch of pointless running after handoffs but zero logical offensive development after initial set is runned out.
Guy talks about pace and space so much that it's like a meme. He doesn't even know what it should mean. Pace would mean actually running. Magic are definition of league's average pace, so PACE in Pace & space is dead. And SPACE never made any sense by even loooking at outlook of roster, even when healthy. Magic hardly have 3 league's average shooters. 0 above average.
So whole phylosphopy is idotic.

[tiderulz]

lets not go overboard. you say he is given green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night. he has done that 8 out of 35 games. 5 of those in this last 2 weeks as the team is hammered by injuries/covid. Thats not just letting him shoot without consequence, its necessity.

[Skybox]

lets not go overboard. you say he is given green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night. he has done that 8 out of 35 games. 5 of those in this last 2 weeks as the team is hammered by injuries/covid. Thats not just letting him shoot without consequence, its necessity.

Agree. Nobody's anointing him an All-Star yet but he's playing under control with decent efficiency considering (A)he's a rookie, and (B) he's been given something of a green light. Best thing I've seen is that he shot 10 Free Throws the other night...that's something we've really missed (not to mention he made all of them). He just seems like he's got a great head on his shoulders and he will learn and build on what is working. I was happy with the "safe" pick - now I consider him the most solid long term piece on the team. Suggs is going to be really good too...similar (apparent) intelligence and lots of tools...I think we won the draft although Golden State might have something to say in a couple of years (which is amazing considering where they're at without any impact from them OR Wiseman OR their second best player ).

[LDNMagic90]

The players seem to love Mosley and he's the most engaged and positive coach I've ever seen for us. He's as into the game as the players but not in the grating Jim Boylen way. Franz is blossoming. I don't think you could ask much more from him at this point.

Not have top 5 worst:
offense
defense net rating
points per game scored
field goal percentage
three point percentage
FTA
assists total
asssit to turnover ratio
turnover percentage
effective field goal percentage
true shooting percentage


Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

But back to Mosley. Players like him because they can do whatever the f**+ they want under him, again, no consequences. Nobody is being held accountable for anything. Mo Bamba is center. Guy took 108 threes... and drew 13 shooting fouls. It's mockery to even write it down.
Wendell Carter jr. usage rate and min a game every month got up, his production is getting worst.
Chuma Okeke, literally nba nobody, is taking 11 threes a game in season where he shoots 23% for 3.

It's a joke. His hand clapping after sucessful play (that he didn't draw ) is a joke. Even during interviews he can't elaborate what's wrong with team. He harldy ever mentions any Xs and Os nor i'm confident that he even knows what his job as head coach should be.
He is brought there to secure top 3 worst record. He has no clue what he is doing. He is their fall guy, their JV. Coaches who are there to suck have shelf life, Brett Stevens is best example.

From bigs reciving ball after pick&roll Magic are second worst team.
From ballhandlers perspective, Magic are 9th in possessions used in pick&roll, but 3rd worst in execution.
He loves to run handoffs , Magic do it more often than any other team in nba. Issue ? Well, Magic love to run play that they are 3rd worst in nba at.


And sure, some of this comes from injuries, but most of "injuries" were by design. Starting season with 5 players hurt, and rookie coach. Stage was set to complete dumpseter fire. And dumpsterfire team is.
But Mosley didn't implement apsolutley anything .Defense has no scheme, it's bunch of man to man that every 5 random men can play on street. Offense is bunch of pointless running after handoffs but zero logical offensive development after initial set is runned out.
Guy talks about pace and space so much that it's like a meme. He doesn't even know what it should mean. Pace would mean actually running. Magic are definition of league's average pace, so PACE in Pace & space is dead. And SPACE never made any sense by even loooking at outlook of roster, even when healthy. Magic hardly have 3 league's average shooters. 0 above average.
So whole phylosphopy is idotic.

I mean I get the stats don't look that appealing this season at all theres no argument there, however don't you think it's a bit harsh to have the jury out on him already?

He's a rookie coach, i get he's had tons of experience being an assistant but this is his first gig as a head coach. The hand he's been dealt is not the best either, he hasn't had a chance to coach with all the players healthy. I think someone here once said near the start of the season its best to look at him the same way we look at the rookies we got on our team, just let's see how they get on this season is pretty much a free hit anyway.

As for his discipline techniques, we have the youngest roster in the NBA correct me if im wrong? A lot of people not just in sports are noticing the younger generation can't be taught the same way the generation above were taught. I think the day's of bollocking players are over to be honest, we are in a new cycle of discipline now. Hell, parents barely shout at their kids in public these days because most kids don't listen to that type of communication these days. The younger generation are different now, you have to talk to them i guess rather than give them the hairdryer treatment for them to receive the information/guidance they need. Now whether that will work in the next few years and help their development? Who knows. He may have chewed into players already but maybe behind close doors rather visibly on the bench.

Mosley seemed to get raving reviews from people all over the NBA, not to say that means he is the perfect coach for us, but you can only go off reviews i guess. He is by no means perfect, there's several things he will need to improve on(Drawing up plays being one of the things he needs to improve on) if he wants to grow with us which i hope he does get the chance to.

[tiderulz]

I mean I get the stats don't look that appealing this season at all theres no argument there, however don't you think it's a bit harsh to have the jury out on him already?

He's a rookie coach, i get he's had tons of experience being an assistant but this is his first gig as a head coach. The hand he's been dealt is not the best either, he hasn't had a chance to coach with all the players healthy. I think someone here once said near the start of the season its best to look at him the same way we look at the rookies we got on our team, just let's see how they get on this season is pretty much a free hit anyway.

As for his discipline techniques, we have the youngest roster in the NBA correct me if im wrong? A lot of people not just in sports are noticing the younger generation can't be taught the same way the generation above were taught. I think the day's of bollocking players are over to be honest, we are in a new cycle of discipline now. Hell, parents barely shout at their kids in public these days because most kids don't listen to that type of communication these days. The younger generation are different now, you have to talk to them i guess rather than give them the hairdryer treatment for them to receive the information/guidance they need. Now whether that will work in the next few years and help their development? Who knows. He may have chewed into players already but maybe behind close doors rather visibly on the bench.

Mosley seemed to get raving reviews from people all over the NBA, not to say that means he is the perfect coach for us, but you can only go off reviews i guess. He is by no means perfect, there's several things he will need to improve on(Drawing up plays being one of the things he needs to improve on) if he wants to grow with us which i hope he does get the chance to.

also something to think about. This team had the 3rd worst record last year, and was horrible all around. now add a rookie head coach, an even younger team, and 2 rookies (though 1 injured). did anyone think this team would suddenly be a top-10 offense or defense? the young guys need to develop and learn to win and play better and the coach needs to learn his players, what they can and cant do

[LDNMagic90]

I mean I get the stats don't look that appealing this season at all theres no argument there, however don't you think it's a bit harsh to have the jury out on him already?

He's a rookie coach, i get he's had tons of experience being an assistant but this is his first gig as a head coach. The hand he's been dealt is not the best either, he hasn't had a chance to coach with all the players healthy. I think someone here once said near the start of the season its best to look at him the same way we look at the rookies we got on our team, just let's see how they get on this season is pretty much a free hit anyway.

As for his discipline techniques, we have the youngest roster in the NBA correct me if im wrong? A lot of people not just in sports are noticing the younger generation can't be taught the same way the generation above were taught. I think the day's of bollocking players are over to be honest, we are in a new cycle of discipline now. Hell, parents barely shout at their kids in public these days because most kids don't listen to that type of communication these days. The younger generation are different now, you have to talk to them i guess rather than give them the hairdryer treatment for them to receive the information/guidance they need. Now whether that will work in the next few years and help their development? Who knows. He may have chewed into players already but maybe behind close doors rather visibly on the bench.

Mosley seemed to get raving reviews from people all over the NBA, not to say that means he is the perfect coach for us, but you can only go off reviews i guess. He is by no means perfect, there's several things he will need to improve on(Drawing up plays being one of the things he needs to improve on) if he wants to grow with us which i hope he does get the chance to.

also something to think about. This team had the 3rd worst record last year, and was horrible all around. now add a rookie head coach, an even younger team, and 2 rookies (though 1 injured). did anyone think this team would suddenly be a top-10 offense or defense? the young guys need to develop and learn to win and play better and the coach needs to learn his players, what they can and cant do

Definitely, honestly after this last off-season what coach was likely to take us on year 1 into our rebuild? It's a whole process I know some people are not for tanking and doing it through this way. I get it and I understand why, but I think for Orlando right now this is the potentially the best path to take. The front office have delayed and sat on their hands in the past years I know, but I don't know about most of you I'm a bit bored of thinking of those years now. It set us back, we forced the playoffs and now we are here. Time to start a new rebuild journey and just hope they do it better this time.

[Skybox]

I guess there's just lots of definitions of "tanking" floating around...I think we're just bad AND injured. Results are the same as OKC benching SGA...It's not like we are sitting our stars down for no reason (A)we don't have stars-we didn't before and we traded our 3 best players to rebuild (B) some of our significant players are legitimately injured...we're just not good, although I'm optimistic about our future. Perhaps, some expand the definition of tanking to trading players who could help us-I disagree unless you're getting nothing in return.

Tanking is losing on purpose, DESPITE having a team capable of winning (more than it does)...that's my definition and I don't think there's any factual basis for believing there's more to it than that. We're certainly not rushing anybody back for important games (there aren't any), but I don't think we're sitting guys that are 100% ready to go...People just get bored these days without an alleged scheme to expose.

[pepe1991]

The players seem to love Mosley and he's the most engaged and positive coach I've ever seen for us. He's as into the game as the players but not in the grating Jim Boylen way. Franz is blossoming. I don't think you could ask much more from him at this point.

Not have top 5 worst:
offense
defense net rating
points per game scored
field goal percentage
three point percentage
FTA
assists total
asssit to turnover ratio
turnover percentage
effective field goal percentage
true shooting percentage


Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

But back to Mosley. Players like him because they can do whatever the f**+ they want under him, again, no consequences. Nobody is being held accountable for anything. Mo Bamba is center. Guy took 108 threes... and drew 13 shooting fouls. It's mockery to even write it down.
Wendell Carter jr. usage rate and min a game every month got up, his production is getting worst.
Chuma Okeke, literally nba nobody, is taking 11 threes a game in season where he shoots 23% for 3.

It's a joke. His hand clapping after sucessful play (that he didn't draw ) is a joke. Even during interviews he can't elaborate what's wrong with team. He harldy ever mentions any Xs and Os nor i'm confident that he even knows what his job as head coach should be.
He is brought there to secure top 3 worst record. He has no clue what he is doing. He is their fall guy, their JV. Coaches who are there to suck have shelf life, Brett Stevens is best example.

From bigs reciving ball after pick&roll Magic are second worst team.
From ballhandlers perspective, Magic are 9th in possessions used in pick&roll, but 3rd worst in execution.
He loves to run handoffs , Magic do it more often than any other team in nba. Issue ? Well, Magic love to run play that they are 3rd worst in nba at.


And sure, some of this comes from injuries, but most of "injuries" were by design. Starting season with 5 players hurt, and rookie coach. Stage was set to complete dumpseter fire. And dumpsterfire team is.
But Mosley didn't implement apsolutley anything .Defense has no scheme, it's bunch of man to man that every 5 random men can play on street. Offense is bunch of pointless running after handoffs but zero logical offensive development after initial set is runned out.
Guy talks about pace and space so much that it's like a meme. He doesn't even know what it should mean. Pace would mean actually running. Magic are definition of league's average pace, so PACE in Pace & space is dead. And SPACE never made any sense by even loooking at outlook of roster, even when healthy. Magic hardly have 3 league's average shooters. 0 above average.
So whole phylosphopy is idotic.

I mean I get the stats don't look that appealing this season at all theres no argument there, however don't you think it's a bit harsh to have the jury out on him already?

He's a rookie coach, i get he's had tons of experience being an assistant but this is his first gig as a head coach. The hand he's been dealt is not the best either, he hasn't had a chance to coach with all the players healthy. I think someone here once said near the start of the season its best to look at him the same way we look at the rookies we got on our team, just let's see how they get on this season is pretty much a free hit anyway.

As for his discipline techniques, we have the youngest roster in the NBA correct me if im wrong? A lot of people not just in sports are noticing the younger generation can't be taught the same way the generation above were taught. I think the day's of bollocking players are over to be honest, we are in a new cycle of discipline now. Hell, parents barely shout at their kids in public these days because most kids don't listen to that type of communication these days. The younger generation are different now, you have to talk to them i guess rather than give them the hairdryer treatment for them to receive the information/guidance they need. Now whether that will work in the next few years and help their development? Who knows. He may have chewed into players already but maybe behind close doors rather visibly on the bench.

Mosley seemed to get raving reviews from people all over the NBA, not to say that means he is the perfect coach for us, but you can only go off reviews i guess. He is by no means perfect, there's several things he will need to improve on(Drawing up plays being one of the things he needs to improve on) if he wants to grow with us which i hope he does get the chance to.

I mean look, there are couple objective ways to measure sucess of any coach.
For start, record is main factor. 7-27 or whatever is beyond awful. Okey you want to put excuses like injuries, sure fine.
Second factor is separating defene and offense and see what he is doing there. In both cases i really struggle to figure what execlly Magic are trying to be. Maybe i'm just blind and dumb, that's fine, but i didn't see anything on defense that would make me think that even by addition of more talent, his defensive scheme will work.
Same is, imo, with his offense. Just running bunch of handoffs that don't develop into any flowing offense. There is crazy amount of times when Magic possession is one guy calling screen and just hoisting shot after ( mainly, Cole).

I don't really care how anybody should discipline players. You stop being teenager in moment professional team signs you on professional contract. By a moment you signed you are no longer kid, but professional athlete and you should be treated and behave as one. NBA empowering their young kids raised generation of Russell Westbrooks and Zion Williamsons of a world. Stat padding, burger eating self-centric egomaniacs who are impossible to work with for different reasons. For crying out loud we have nba stars who belive world is flat.

But if you are laying excues for coach like : team sucks, team is young, he has nothing to work with, how execlly you can come to conclusion that he is great, if any objective measurment of his sucess is currapted or in one way or another "broken"?
Best you could say is that he is impossible to grade because of outside factors.
What outside world tihnk about him? What ouside world thought about Fizdale? That he should be getting jobs served on silver plate. How Marc Gasol had no right to be angry at him, how it's unfair that beef with star costed him job. How he is brightest young nba mind....Now, years later, you have articles about him being pulled down because writers don't like to be told how foolish they were. NBA might be only league in the world where you are elite until you proven to be different From day one every rookie is being babied and told by fans he is next Kawhi, Lebron. Every coach has "flavor of Pop"... Just ridicilious.

As for being youngest, Magic aren't youngest ( i think 4th youngest actually) but even if they were, why should anybody care? It's professional league. It's up to you to bring bunch of post puberty, half cooked, underveloped players or actually put respective roter. In vast majority of leagues outside US you get demoted in second tear division and that's main reason why teams don't do it. IN nba it's called "development" and you get rewarded for sucking.
I mentioned in past that Suns brought youngest nba team in history few years back. By the time they stopped being kindergarden, they only 2 guys from that "youngest rosters" were still there. 18 gone.

[tiderulz]

cant tell me we couldnt have had a use for Herb Jones on this team with a 2nd round pick. 23 yr old senior, was SEC Defensive POY and SEC POY, humble and hard worker. Does all the dirty work with zero ego. one of those guys who can actually guard any position.

[PrimeThyme]

Most of our core young players have made tangible improvements under Mosley so far. We are also by far the most injured team in the league. I’m very happy with the job he’s done.

[Knightro]

Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.

This is so goofy and out of context.

It's not "partially because he's played a few more games" -- it's entirely because of that. And 8 more games than Barnes and 9 more games than Mobley isn't a "few" games either. It's 10% of the season.

Wagner takes 13.1 shots per game. Barnes takes 12.7 shots per game. Literally a 0.4 shots per game difference.

Wagner has played 35 games. Barnes has played 27.

If you added 8 games to Barnes' season that 126 shot gap Franz has on him would magically become just a 15 shot gap.

Mobley does take fewer shots than Franz and Barnes at 11.5 per game, but that's to be expected because offensively he's a big and not a ball handling big wing like the other two. But either way, normalize Mobley to the same amount of games played as Franz and that 161 shot gap magically becomes a 57 shot gap.

[LDNMagic90]

Not have top 5 worst:
offense
defense net rating
points per game scored
field goal percentage
three point percentage
FTA
assists total
asssit to turnover ratio
turnover percentage
effective field goal percentage
true shooting percentage


Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

But back to Mosley. Players like him because they can do whatever the f**+ they want under him, again, no consequences. Nobody is being held accountable for anything. Mo Bamba is center. Guy took 108 threes... and drew 13 shooting fouls. It's mockery to even write it down.
Wendell Carter jr. usage rate and min a game every month got up, his production is getting worst.
Chuma Okeke, literally nba nobody, is taking 11 threes a game in season where he shoots 23% for 3.

It's a joke. His hand clapping after sucessful play (that he didn't draw ) is a joke. Even during interviews he can't elaborate what's wrong with team. He harldy ever mentions any Xs and Os nor i'm confident that he even knows what his job as head coach should be.
He is brought there to secure top 3 worst record. He has no clue what he is doing. He is their fall guy, their JV. Coaches who are there to suck have shelf life, Brett Stevens is best example.

From bigs reciving ball after pick&roll Magic are second worst team.
From ballhandlers perspective, Magic are 9th in possessions used in pick&roll, but 3rd worst in execution.
He loves to run handoffs , Magic do it more often than any other team in nba. Issue ? Well, Magic love to run play that they are 3rd worst in nba at.


And sure, some of this comes from injuries, but most of "injuries" were by design. Starting season with 5 players hurt, and rookie coach. Stage was set to complete dumpseter fire. And dumpsterfire team is.
But Mosley didn't implement apsolutley anything .Defense has no scheme, it's bunch of man to man that every 5 random men can play on street. Offense is bunch of pointless running after handoffs but zero logical offensive development after initial set is runned out.
Guy talks about pace and space so much that it's like a meme. He doesn't even know what it should mean. Pace would mean actually running. Magic are definition of league's average pace, so PACE in Pace & space is dead. And SPACE never made any sense by even loooking at outlook of roster, even when healthy. Magic hardly have 3 league's average shooters. 0 above average.
So whole phylosphopy is idotic.

I mean I get the stats don't look that appealing this season at all theres no argument there, however don't you think it's a bit harsh to have the jury out on him already?

He's a rookie coach, i get he's had tons of experience being an assistant but this is his first gig as a head coach. The hand he's been dealt is not the best either, he hasn't had a chance to coach with all the players healthy. I think someone here once said near the start of the season its best to look at him the same way we look at the rookies we got on our team, just let's see how they get on this season is pretty much a free hit anyway.

As for his discipline techniques, we have the youngest roster in the NBA correct me if im wrong? A lot of people not just in sports are noticing the younger generation can't be taught the same way the generation above were taught. I think the day's of bollocking players are over to be honest, we are in a new cycle of discipline now. Hell, parents barely shout at their kids in public these days because most kids don't listen to that type of communication these days. The younger generation are different now, you have to talk to them i guess rather than give them the hairdryer treatment for them to receive the information/guidance they need. Now whether that will work in the next few years and help their development? Who knows. He may have chewed into players already but maybe behind close doors rather visibly on the bench.

Mosley seemed to get raving reviews from people all over the NBA, not to say that means he is the perfect coach for us, but you can only go off reviews i guess. He is by no means perfect, there's several things he will need to improve on(Drawing up plays being one of the things he needs to improve on) if he wants to grow with us which i hope he does get the chance to.

I mean look, there are couple objective ways to measure sucess of any coach.
For start, record is main factor. 7-27 or whatever is beyond awful. Okey you want to put excuses like injuries, sure fine.
Second factor is separating defene and offense and see what he is doing there. In both cases i really struggle to figure what execlly Magic are trying to be. Maybe i'm just blind and dumb, that's fine, but i didn't see anything on defense that would make me think that even by addition of more talent, his defensive scheme will work.
Same is, imo, with his offense. Just running bunch of handoffs that don't develop into any flowing offense. There is crazy amount of times when Magic possession is one guy calling screen and just hoisting shot after ( mainly, Cole).

I don't really care how anybody should discipline players. You stop being teenager in moment professional team signs you on professional contract. By a moment you signed you are no longer kid, but professional athlete and you should be treated and behave as one. NBA empowering their young kids raised generation of Russell Westbrooks and Zion Williamsons of a world. Stat padding, burger eating self-centric egomaniacs who are impossible to work with for different reasons. For crying out loud we have nba stars who belive world is flat.

But if you are laying excues for coach like : team sucks, team is young, he has nothing to work with, how execlly you can come to conclusion that he is great, if any objective measurment of his sucess is currapted or in one way or another "broken"?
Best you could say is that he is impossible to grade because of outside factors.
What outside world tihnk about him? What ouside world thought about Fizdale? That he should be getting jobs served on silver plate. How Marc Gasol had no right to be angry at him, how it's unfair that beef with star costed him job. How he is brightest young nba mind....Now, years later, you have articles about him being pulled down because writers don't like to be told how foolish they were. NBA might be only league in the world where you are elite until you proven to be different From day one every rookie is being babied and told by fans he is next Kawhi, Lebron. Every coach has "flavor of Pop"... Just ridicilious.

As for being youngest, Magic aren't youngest ( i think 4th youngest actually) but even if they were, why should anybody care? It's professional league. It's up to you to bring bunch of post puberty, half cooked, underveloped players or actually put respective roter. In vast majority of leagues outside US you get demoted in second tear division and that's main reason why teams don't do it. IN nba it's called "development" and you get rewarded for sucking.
I mentioned in past that Suns brought youngest nba team in history few years back. By the time they stopped being kindergarden, they only 2 guys from that "youngest rosters" were still there. 18 gone.

The record is awful and I'm sure he knows it. However, there are factors in which why things happen the way they do. Injuries happen to professional athletes due to a number of things, which I won't list right now, but they happen and can completely derail a teams performance. Now some injuries and situations fall on teams trainers etc which we are experiencing with Isaac in my opinion. I've already mentioned Mosley is nowhere near perfect I didn't insinuate that I thought he was a good coach or not. What you said about him being impossible to grade is where I am at with Mosley for the most part. That's why I said for me he gets a free hit this season because of certain factors.

I brought up discipline because it goes hand in hand with holding the players accountable, Mosley's style is not the hairdryer style. He probably has his own way of handling things, hell for all we know he could chew these guys in the locker room and we just never know about it. Whether his way works or not we don't know yet we are going to just have to find out in the future. As for what some of the guys believe in, thats up to them. With Zion the guy is injured and unfortunately is in a bit of a circular situation. He has a foot injury, which he has a setback. He can't do much to shed the weight due to his foot which means he is likely to add more weight which means it's longer for him to recover and he had his setback more than likely due to it. I think it's a bit of a witch-hunt with him in my opinion. Westbrook, well... I don't know for him to be honest lol.

As for how the NBA hype players and coaches, I think that's sports in general? Look at soccer how many young players are billed as the next big thing etc. Perfect example was a player called Yoann Gourcuff and also Abou Diaby. Both players were talented (some compared Gourcuff to Zidane and Diaby to Yaya Toure/Patrick Vieira) and their careers just went to the toilet due to injuries and stuff. No matter what sport the media will always hype them up and there's always going to be players that buy into their own hype or stay focused. Regardless of whatever sport recruiting a core of young players generally works for most of the great teams and then adding the pieces to fit. Right now we are at stage one and finding who that core is, then hopefully once that has happened we can start adding the complementary pieces together and see where we are.

[CZ Eddie]

Is Bamba still out with an ankle sprain?
Been out longer than I expected.

[basketballRob]

Is Bamba still out with an ankle sprain?
Been out longer than I expected.

He had Covid. It seems like when players go out they never come back.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Knightro]

Is Bamba still out with an ankle sprain?
Been out longer than I expected.

He had Covid. It seems like when players go out they never come back.

I'm about 90% sure Ross and Bamba are both off the COVID list. They were both on the bench tonight which is not allowed if you actively have COVID. I'd imagine both of them will play soon. Maybe a couple more days to get into conditioning.

[thelead]

Is Bamba still out with an ankle sprain?
Been out longer than I expected.

He had Covid. It seems like when players go out they never come back.

I'm about 90% sure Ross and Bamba are both off the COVID list. They were both on the bench tonight which is not allowed if you actively have COVID. I'd imagine both of them will play soon. Maybe a couple more days to get into conditioning.

Yeah, I think we'll be seeing Ross, Cole, Bamba, and Fultz make their returns very soon.

[pepe1991]

Individual performances of a rookie doesn't change fact team is complete and utter dog***t at all aspects of basketball game.
Also there is clear connection with above noted "top 5 worst" and Franz stats. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.

This is so goofy and out of context.

It's not "partially because he's played a few more games" -- it's entirely because of that. And 8 more games than Barnes and 9 more games than Mobley isn't a "few" games either. It's 10% of the season.

Wagner takes 13.1 shots per game. Barnes takes 12.7 shots per game. Literally a 0.4 shots per game difference.

Wagner has played 35 games. Barnes has played 27.

If you added 8 games to Barnes' season that 126 shot gap Franz has on him would magically become just a 15 shot gap.

Mobley does take fewer shots than Franz and Barnes at 11.5 per game, but that's to be expected because offensively he's a big and not a ball handling big wing like the other two. But either way, normalize Mobley to the same amount of games played as Franz and that 161 shot gap magically becomes a 57 shot gap.

Evan Mobley took 299 shots in 26 games.
Franz Wagner took 473 shots in 36 games.

That's 174 shots gap over 10 games. In order to evan up amount of shots, Mobley would have to take 17,4 shots a game.
How many times Mobley took over 17 shots a game in first 26 games? Zero. *late edit, took 20 shots tonight*


Scottie Barnes took 344 shots over 27 games. 129 shots gap over 9 games. 14,3 shots a game to close a gap. How many times Scotty took 15 shots a game in nba? 7 in 27 games. So probability of that outcome is 26% per meeting. Witch means that, even if Scotty played as many games as Wagner did, he would still fall below Franz in shot attemps.

This is so goofy and out of context.

It's not "partially because he's played a few more games" -- it's entirely because of that. And 8 more games than Barnes and 9 more games than Mobley isn't a "few" games either. It's 10% of the season.

Only goofy and out of contest is being subjective to the point where 5th grade math is failing you.
Franz takes most shots per game than any rookie not named Cade, including Jalen Green who is being called "chucker" for it. Only objective difference is that Franz's is bit closer to league's average efficiency (54% vs 52% TS) .

Franz Wagner took at least 20 shots - 4 times.
Cade, Green, Mobley, Scottie Barnes and Jalen Suggs (all top 5 picks combined) - 5.

Case closed.
Verdict: due injuries, Suggs struggles, Isaac doing everything but basketball, Fultz nursing injury, no depth, no talent, Franz Wanger has been given golden opportunity to lead all rookies in shot attemps, by wide margin.
He took that opportunity and shines through, good for him. But it's not hard to understand context. If Orlando has any more talent, his shots would be reduced by a lot. If Franz is on Warriors, he would be 12-14 min bench player. If Kuminga is on Magic, he would be 35 min , probably 12-14 ppg player too. That's how basketball works.

[jezzerinho]

[. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

I agree with your points about Mosley and the teams performance but i can't agree with you on Franz. Sure he's getting more minutes than other rookies and more "green light" than some. But the key is what he's doing with that opportunity.

He's playing team basketball, he's shooting efficiently, hes engaged defensively despite the scheme being complete dogshït. He's playing with the collection of sub-G-League players that Orl is trotting out nightly.

There's no hero ball. There's no stat compilation. There's no taking off plays. There's no defeatism. There's no bemoaning the fact the FO are putting him out there against stacked NBA teams with a bunch of ragtag journeymen.

If anything, it's a credit to Franz just how professional he's being with the extra minutes, burden, responsibility and YES opportunity that he's been given. PER of 15 as a high usage rookie says he's being pretty efficient. 1.3 off win shares says his usage is successful. TS% is respectable at 0.55%.

It could easily be that those extra minutes and touches work against a rookie, which would show up in efficiency and contribution-oriented stats. But that's not the case with Franz.

[pepe1991]

[. Franz Wagner took most shots by a rookie this year. Matter of fact he took 78 shots more than second player with most shots.
He took 161 shot more than Evan Mobley for example. 126 shots more than Barnes.

Partically this comes from fact he played few games more than them, however, both Barnes & Mobley would have to take at least 18 shots a game for whole duration of "gap" between games to catch up with his shots total.


I like Franz and this is not jab at him by any means, but he is given opportunity that vast majority of rookies never have. Green light to shoot 15-20 shots a night without any consequences, and witch is even more crazy, on most nights last few weeks, he is in nba, playing G league competition.

I agree with your points about Mosley and the teams performance but i can't agree with you on Franz. Sure he's getting more minutes than other rookies and more "green light" than some. But the key is what he's doing with that opportunity.

He's playing team basketball, he's shooting efficiently, hes engaged defensively despite the scheme being complete dogshït. He's playing with the collection of sub-G-League players that Orl is trotting out nightly.

There's no hero ball. There's no stat compilation. There's no taking off plays. There's no defeatism. There's no bemoaning the fact the FO are putting him out there against stacked NBA teams with a bunch of ragtag journeymen.

If anything, it's a credit to Franz just how professional he's being with the extra minutes, burden, responsibility and YES opportunity that he's been given. PER of 15 as a high usage rookie says he's being pretty efficient. 1.3 off win shares says his usage is successful. TS% is respectable at 0.55%.

It could easily be that those extra minutes and touches work against a rookie, which would show up in efficiency and contribution-oriented stats. But that's not the case with Franz.

My post wasn't jab at Franz by any mean, i just pointed out obvious. He has opportunity that almost no rookies has.
Free reing, poor coaching, zero structure, no leash, no competition for position, teammates that are no-nba level of talents, and even some opponents who are no- nba -level of talents.
He is doing amazing job, and nobody can take that for him.

But in general, if rookie is your best player it means one of two things:
1) you drafted Jordan or Lebron
2) your team is dog****

We all know where Magic are between those two categories.

[jezzerinho]

If you just blew your team up, had 2 picks in the top 8 and have a ton of mystery absentee illnesses/injuries, I'd be pretty pissed if your shiny new rookie wasn't one of your best players....