Sabonis and Turner offers

[Adrian Street]

I still like De'Aaron Fox as a trade target for the Pacers. He and Duarte would form the best backcourt they've had in a long, long time.

If we go for Fox I would hold out for Barnes as well. Something like Sabonis/Lamb/LeVert/Craig for Fox/Barnes/Ramsey. Barnes can get it done on both ends and play the 3 and 4. If Warren ever comes back 100%, Warren and Barnes would form a great forward combo. We would have:

Turner
Barnes
Warren/Duarte
Brogdon
Fox

That looks like a nice lineup with a strong bench that would include Warren or Duarte along with Holiday, Brissett, McConnell (next season), Bitadze, Jackson, Martin and Ramsey. Carlisle should be able to do something with that group.

[Adrian Street]

Picks & Westbrook for Turner, Lamb, and Warren (or LeVert)


Picks -
2025 unprotected 1st round swap
2026 unprotected 1st Rd pick
2027 unprotected 1st Rd swap
2028 top 5 protected 1st Rd pick

The Pacers get to compete for the playoffs which they have historically cared about doing.
They're really good at drafting so having extra picks is a benefit.
Westbrook will put a few extra fans in the stands.
Worry- will he click with Carlisle?

Lakers get younger and huge upfront.
Turner can hold it down when AD is out.
Turner spreads the floor when necessary.
He can be Bosh 2.0

Lakers can’t offer those picks, due to the protections and restrictions on the pick they owe New Orleans. So, La is far off from being able to lay what Indy would need to take in Westbrook. Realistically, La can only offer swaps in 2026 and 2028 and an outright pick in 2027 since NO can just defer the 2024 pick to 2025.

Lakers have nothing to offer for our best players. I wouldn't mind doing something like Holiday for Kendrick Nunn, THT or maybe Malik Monk.

[Adrian Street]

I still like De'Aaron Fox as a trade target for the Pacers. He and Duarte would form the best backcourt they've had in a long, long time.

getting a PG from the Kings would help the Pacers but why would the Kings want to give up on one? are you thinking Mitchel is long term better than Fox or are you just going for a shorter contract?

FWIW Carlisle has said LeVert is good at either the 1 or the 2 but I haven't seen it.

Kings are as bad as we are this season with 3 high level PG prospects in Fox, Halliburton and Mitchell, with little up front. They haven't made the playoffs in like 15 years so they are desperate for someone to help get them there.

LeVert has looked much better this month and especially since he has been filling in for Brogdon at point. He has really racked up the points and assists while keeping his turnovers low and he is playing some defese. I hope he can continue to raise his trade value before he gets hurt again.

[Adrian Street]

If Sabonis or Turner are traded, I would say the most likely trade partners are.
Kings
Hornets
Knicks
Spurs
Pelicans
Raptors
Blazers

[Godaddycurse]

Theres a few problems with pacers fans expectation and reality:

1) Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract
2) brogdon cant be traded, McConnell and Warren are injured, LeVert is negative value so they lack good fillers.
3) turner/sabonis arent enough to bring back a young franchise corner stone/prized prospect. I think even combining them (via 3 way) wouldnt be able to do that.

Would indy fans be willing to attach pick(s) to try to land a marquee player? is it wise to do so? Just a really hard situation to be in.

[SNPA]

I like Fox but hate his contract.

Agree. I'd also give Mitchell a long look if the Kings want to move a PG for a SG

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Can’t get a player the age of Fox with his numbers last year as a first option to sign a deal for a lot less. If you like him, that’s the going rate.

[Wizop]

Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract

I may be alone, but I do not want a consolidation trade. I do not want to trade two twenties for a forty. We may need to trade a twenty for a twenty with different skills though.

That said, I first want a better handle on what is of going wrong. Why do we score well in the first half and not the second? Depth? Scheme? Adjustments? Effort? I don't think we can fix the problem without first identifying it.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[Wizop]

I like Fox but hate his contract.

Agree. I'd also give Mitchell a long look if the Kings want to move a PG for a SG

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

Can’t get a player the age of Fox with his numbers last year as a first option to sign a deal for a lot less. If you like him, that’s the going rate.

We aren't saying his contract is above market value. We're saying it doesn't fit with our other contracts. Some would counter that we have to blow up everything because our roster needs to be reconstructed to accommodate max players. I hope not.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[Adrian Street]

Theres a few problems with pacers fans expectation and reality:

1) Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract
2) brogdon cant be traded, McConnell and Warren are injured, LeVert is negative value so they lack good fillers.
3) turner/sabonis arent enough to bring back a young franchise corner stone/prized prospect. I think even combining them (via 3 way) wouldnt be able to do that.

Would indy fans be willing to attach pick(s) to try to land a marquee player) is it wise to do so? Just a really hard situation to be in.

1.Pacers need to go after a young rising player who is on the verge of stardom but not quite there yet.
2.LeVert has been playing at an all-star level recently and if he stays healthy and continues that level of play until the trade deadline he will be in very high demand.
3.Some combination of Sabonis or Turner with LeVert will be enough to bring in a franchise player under the right circumstances.

Would Indy be willing to attach picks? Yes, for the right players and we should if that's what it takes to get a player who can be that franchise superstar.

[Adrian Street]

Agree. I'd also give Mitchell a long look if the Kings want to move a PG for a SG

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

Can’t get a player the age of Fox with his numbers last year as a first option to sign a deal for a lot less. If you like him, that’s the going rate.

We aren't saying his contract is above market value. We're saying it doesn't fit with our other contracts. Some would counter that we have to blow up everything because our roster needs to be reconstructed to accommodate max players. I hope not.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

We went after Hayward when he was a free agent with Boston and we are reported to be interested in Simmons. They both make more than Fox. Why would doing a trade of Sabonis and Lamb for Fox and Ramsey, for example, be a problem when the salaries match? Why would it not fit with our other players if we get back the same number of players making the same combined salary? I'm not trying to argue just trying to learn. I have heard that about Indy not taking on big contracts because of the tax line and it just never made sense to me. What am I missing?

[DoItALL9]

Picks & Westbrook for Turner, Lamb, and Warren (or LeVert)


Picks -
2025 unprotected 1st round swap
2026 unprotected 1st Rd pick
2027 unprotected 1st Rd swap
2028 top 5 protected 1st Rd pick

The Pacers get to compete for the playoffs which they have historically cared about doing.
They're really good at drafting so having extra picks is a benefit.
Westbrook will put a few extra fans in the stands.
Worry- will he click with Carlisle?

Lakers get younger and huge upfront.
Turner can hold it down when AD is out.
Turner spreads the floor when necessary.
He can be Bosh 2.0

Lakers can’t offer those picks, due to the protections and restrictions on the pick they owe New Orleans. So, La is far off from being able to lay what Indy would need to take in Westbrook. Realistically, La can only offer swaps in 2026 and 2028 and an outright pick in 2027 since NO can just defer the 2024 pick to 2025.

Good catch, I was off by a year. Makes quite the difference in what they can offer

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[basketballwacko2]

Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract

I may be alone, but I do not want a consolidation trade. I do not want to trade two twenties for a forty. We may need to trade a twenty for a twenty with different skills though.

That said, I first want a better handle on what is of going wrong. Why do we score well in the first half and not the second? Depth? Scheme? Adjustments? Effort? I don't think we can fix the problem without first identifying it.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

LeVert makes $18 million and isn't worth half that. He's selfish, inefficient and lazy on defense. I'd trade him for a bag of stale cheeto's and half a redbull.

[basketballwacko2]

Theres a few problems with pacers fans expectation and reality:

1) Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract
2) brogdon cant be traded, McConnell and Warren are injured, LeVert is negative value so they lack good fillers.
3) turner/sabonis arent enough to bring back a young franchise corner stone/prized prospect. I think even combining them (via 3 way) wouldnt be able to do that.

Would indy fans be willing to attach pick(s) to try to land a marquee player) is it wise to do so? Just a really hard situation to be in.

1.Pacers need to go after a young rising player who is on the verge of stardom but not quite there yet.
2.LeVert has been playing at an all-star level recently and if he stays healthy and continues that level of play until the trade deadline he will be in very high demand.
3.Some combination of Sabonis or Turner with LeVert will be enough to bring in a franchise player under the right circumstances.

Would Indy be willing to attach picks? Yes, for the right players and we should if that's what it takes to get a player who can be that franchise superstar.

I keep saying this AS but LeVert is hot garbage, he's the guy who puts up big numbers on a bad team and the Pacers are a bad team. Look at this clip that was posted in the game thread last night on the pacers board. That's just one play but he does it all the time. It's making me so sick I don't even want to watch the games anymore. I'd trade LeVert for anything I could get any expiring contract anyone has and they can have him.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[basketballwacko2]

Can’t get a player the age of Fox with his numbers last year as a first option to sign a deal for a lot less. If you like him, that’s the going rate.

We aren't saying his contract is above market value. We're saying it doesn't fit with our other contracts. Some would counter that we have to blow up everything because our roster needs to be reconstructed to accommodate max players. I hope not.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

We went after Hayward when he was a free agent with Boston and we are reported to be interested in Simmons. They both make more than Fox. Why would doing a trade of Sabonis and Lamb for Fox and Ramsey, for example, be a problem when the salaries match? Why would it not fit with our other players if we get back the same number of players making the same combined salary? I'm not trying to argue just trying to learn. I have heard that about Indy not taking on big contracts because of the tax line and it just never made sense to me. What am I missing?

Notice that we didn't trade for sign Hayward, and we didn't trade for Simmons. Do the math Fox is $30 million next year, Brogdan is $22.6m, Turner $18 million and needs to be extended, and LeVert $18 million, that's $88 million for 4 guys, and you still need to sign Warren or someone to play SF, there's Holiday, McConnell, Craig and the rookie deals, and you need a 14 man roster at least. How do you do that and stay out of the tax? And is that team gonna win more than 40 games?

[basketballwacko2]

Theres a few problems with pacers fans expectation and reality:

1) Pacers want a consolidation trade but they cant go above tax, so it makes it hard to bring in a star on max contract
2) brogdon cant be traded, McConnell and Warren are injured, LeVert is negative value so they lack good fillers.
3) turner/sabonis arent enough to bring back a young franchise corner stone/prized prospect. I think even combining them (via 3 way) wouldnt be able to do that.

Would indy fans be willing to attach pick(s) to try to land a marquee player? is it wise to do so? Just a really hard situation to be in.

I would not be willing to attach picks, considering the direction of this team right now I'd rather tear it down and start over. I'll keep, Turner, Duarte, Jackson, Goga and Brissett.

I'm really tired of the whining from Pacers fans about being on a treadmill and the constant yammering about how Sabonis and Turner can't play on the same team when it's beyond obvious that it's the guards play and the lack of a SF that has this team in the toilet.

I'm ready to trade Sabonis even though I love the guy, and LeVert who stinks on ice, and if Brogdan keeps getting hurt the rest of this year I'll move him in the off season for picks or what ever.

How do you win in the NBA if you're in a small market? The only way is to get lucky in the draft, the Bucks got GA with a mid #1 the Raptors got OG and Pascal with late #1's and found an undrafted VanVleet. The Jazz got Mitchell at #12 and Gobert at #27. The Pacers have blown their draft picks a few times in recent years taking guys like Miles Plumlee, TJ Leaf and Soloman Hill. So they are not signing any stars and when they do have a guy like Paul George he decides he's too good to play in a small market so what do you do?

[hugepatsfan]

I think Turner would be the perfect 5 to play next to Ben Simmons as a PF and Brogdon is an idea combo guard to play as the PG with a guy like Simmons having lots of ball handling/playmaking duties. If I’m IND I’d be exploring every scenario possible to move Sabonis for Simmons. I think it’d be a huge move for their overall roster fit.

[Adrian Street]

We aren't saying his contract is above market value. We're saying it doesn't fit with our other contracts. Some would counter that we have to blow up everything because our roster needs to be reconstructed to accommodate max players. I hope not.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

We went after Hayward when he was a free agent with Boston and we are reported to be interested in Simmons. They both make more than Fox. Why would doing a trade of Sabonis and Lamb for Fox and Ramsey, for example, be a problem when the salaries match? Why would it not fit with our other players if we get back the same number of players making the same combined salary? I'm not trying to argue just trying to learn. I have heard that about Indy not taking on big contracts because of the tax line and it just never made sense to me. What am I missing?

Notice that we didn't trade for sign Hayward, and we didn't trade for Simmons. Do the math Fox is $30 million next year, Brogdan is $22.6m, Turner $18 million and needs to be extended, and LeVert $18 million, that's $88 million for 4 guys, and you still need to sign Warren or someone to play SF, there's Holiday, McConnell, Craig and the rookie deals, and you need a 14 man roster at least. How do you do that and stay out of the tax? And is that team gonna win more than 40 games?

I did notice that we didn't do a sign and trade for Hayward but only because Charlotte came in and offered more money while Ainge was holding out to get more in return for him. The fact that we didn't do a sign and trade had nothing to do with the size of his contract. Lets do the math, if we trade a player making 20 million and a player making 18 million that's 38 million we are trading away. If we are trading for a player that makes 30 million and another player that makes 5 million then that's 35 million. we are trading 2 players making 38 mil combined for 2 players making 35 mil combined, so we save 3 million. Maybe this will help

Paccers trade away
20 mil + 18 mil = 38 mil

Pacers receive
30 mil + 5 mil= 35 mil

38 mil - 35 mil = 3 mil more traded away than bringing back. It's not complicated

[amcoolio]

I think Turner would be the perfect 5 to play next to Ben Simmons as a PF and Brogdon is an idea combo guard to play as the PG with a guy like Simmons having lots of ball handling/playmaking duties. If I’m IND I’d be exploring every scenario
possible to move Sabonis for Simmons. I think it’d be a huge move for their overall roster fit.

Sabonis and Lamb to Charlotte
Simmons to Philly
Hayward, Craig and Bouknight to Philly

Makes the most sense for Simmons and all three teams, Philly gets a secondary scorer/playmaker, a young prospect that has played well when on the court, and a glue guy in Craig. Charlotte moves Hayward's production to the 5 spot but loses shooting and a prospect, though they get off Hayward's money the last year. Indy retools without rebuilding and keeps Turner and Simmons gets his own team and isn't in the harsh Philly spotlight

[Adrian Street]

I think Turner would be the perfect 5 to play next to Ben Simmons as a PF and Brogdon is an idea combo guard to play as the PG with a guy like Simmons having lots of ball handling/playmaking duties. If I’m IND I’d be exploring every scenario
possible to move Sabonis for Simmons. I think it’d be a huge move for their overall roster fit.

Sabonis and Lamb to Charlotte
Simmons to Philly
Hayward, Craig and Bouknight to Philly

Makes the most sense for Simmons and all three teams, Philly gets a secondary scorer/playmaker, a young prospect that has played well when on the court, and a glue guy in Craig. Charlotte moves Hayward's production to the 5 spot but loses shooting and a prospect, though they get off Hayward's money the last year. Indy retools without rebuilding and keeps Turner and Simmons gets his own team and isn't in the harsh Philly spotlight

Philly would want more. I think Morey will keep Simmons a couple years unttil Lillard retires and Beal gets traded to another team. Morey will then deal Simmons for a 2nd rd draft pick and get fired.

[thamadkant]

Spurs would win 50 games with Sabonis as their PF/C.... they have the system and role players (and co-star in Murray) to have a winning team.