2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[God Squad]

Any idea when Suggs comes back? Or is his return TBD? How to Magic fans feel on Franz/Suggs ceiling? Does anyone still think Suggs has the higher ceiling between the two?

[Gasolina]

people like to cite the cavs and raps success as reasons why mobley and barnes are different from other rookies but the raps are 2-2 without barnes (and the two losses are their last two games with a G league roster) and the cavs are 3-5 without mobley.

the pistons are 0-8 without cade and haven't really been close to winning without him.

They also haven’t really been close to winning with him, either.

Edit: Damn it, someone already beat me to the joke.

[AaronB]

Just looking at the Boxscore now, and it looks like Mobley had another balanced off/def game. But from looking at the box score it looks like he had tiny bit of difficulty without Rubio/Allen, is this true, or off base?

Franz with another cool and efficient 20 piece and 2-3 3pt line. I still think he's a poor rebounder for his size, and 1 assist isn't exactly appealing for 34 mins.

Gillespie and Wendell Carter both started for the Magic, so it wasn't Franz's role to rebound. 90% of the games this season the Magic have started two centers.

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Rob. Why do you think that because a team has other players that can rebound that it isn't Franz role to rebound? I'll never understand this thought process. Chit even another Magic fan think he could give more effort on that end, but you make excuses. Mind you, this isn't me disparaging is game, as he's played amazing all season.

I like most aspects of his game, but 6'10 and you routinely pull down 1-4 rebounds? But I guess since he plays with a C/PF he can't rebound better than guards.

Edit : Gillespie played 14mins lol. The only logical reason would be he's taking a bunch of long range shots and just not in a position to rebound, or just not giving enough effort on that end. Admittedly I didn't watch the game, so I'll leave it to Magic fans to educate me on the matter.

The Magic were outrebounded by the Bucks last night by 17 boards. They clearly needed more from Franz in that area last night and every night. It wasn't the guards stealing rebounds from him either.

[basketballRob]

Just looking at the Boxscore now, and it looks like Mobley had another balanced off/def game. But from looking at the box score it looks like he had tiny bit of difficulty without Rubio/Allen, is this true, or off base?

Franz with another cool and efficient 20 piece and 2-3 3pt line. I still think he's a poor rebounder for his size, and 1 assist isn't exactly appealing for 34 mins.

Gillespie and Wendell Carter both started for the Magic, so it wasn't Franz's role to rebound. 90% of the games this season the Magic have started two centers.

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Rob. Why do you think that because a team has other players that can rebound that it isn't Franz role to rebound? I'll never understand this thought process. Chit even another Magic fan think he could give more effort on that end, but you make excuses. Mind you, this isn't me disparaging is game, as he's played amazing all season.

I like most aspects of his game, but 6'10 and you routinely pull down 1-4 rebounds? But I guess since he plays with a C/PF he can't rebound better than guards.

Edit : Gillespie played 14mins lol. The only logical reason would be he's taking a bunch of long range shots and just not in a position to rebound, or just not giving enough effort on that end. Admittedly I didn't watch the game, so I'll leave it to Magic fans to educate me on the matter.

I'll check later but pretty sure that he averages 7 RPG when he starts with one center.

He mostly guarded Middleton who had the same amount of rebounds. So they were playing away from the basket. Middleton had more assists because his teammates were knocking down shots. Franz setup teammates perfectly but they couldn't make the shots. I'm partial but I think Franz looked better than Middleton in the two games.

Franz 20.7 PPG in the last 10.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/franz-wagner-10299/game-log

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[AaronB]

Any idea when Suggs comes back? Or is his return TBD? How to Magic fans feel on Franz/Suggs ceiling? Does anyone still think Suggs has the higher ceiling between the two?

Suggs was much more raw than I expected and playing with Cole Anthony has not helped.

Before the draft, Suggs was my highest-rated player.

I am still not ready to move off that position, although admittedly Mobley, Barnes, and Wagner have clearly surprised me with how quickly they have picked up the NBA game.

[AaronB]

Gillespie and Wendell Carter both started for the Magic, so it wasn't Franz's role to rebound. 90% of the games this season the Magic have started two centers.

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Rob. Why do you think that because a team has other players that can rebound that it isn't Franz role to rebound? I'll never understand this thought process. Chit even another Magic fan think he could give more effort on that end, but you make excuses. Mind you, this isn't me disparaging is game, as he's played amazing all season.

I like most aspects of his game, but 6'10 and you routinely pull down 1-4 rebounds? But I guess since he plays with a C/PF he can't rebound better than guards.

Edit : Gillespie played 14mins lol. The only logical reason would be he's taking a bunch of long range shots and just not in a position to rebound, or just not giving enough effort on that end. Admittedly I didn't watch the game, so I'll leave it to Magic fans to educate me on the matter.

I'll check later but pretty sure that he averages 7 RPG when he starts with one center.

He mostly guarded Middleton who had the same amount of rebounds. So they were playing away from the basket. Middleton had more assists because his teammates were knocking down shots. Franz setup teammates perfectly but they couldn't make the shots. I'm partial but I think Franz looked better than Middleton in the two games.

Franz 20.7 PPG in the last 10.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/franz-wagner-10299/game-log

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Look at his size on the court. He looks almost 7' in shoes. With his height, quick feet, and athleticism, he should be close to the league lead in offensive rebounds. He needs to take some classes with Dennis Rodman, the professor of rebounding.

[basketballRob]

Rob. Why do you think that because a team has other players that can rebound that it isn't Franz role to rebound? I'll never understand this thought process. Chit even another Magic fan think he could give more effort on that end, but you make excuses. Mind you, this isn't me disparaging is game, as he's played amazing all season.

I like most aspects of his game, but 6'10 and you routinely pull down 1-4 rebounds? But I guess since he plays with a C/PF he can't rebound better than guards.

Edit : Gillespie played 14mins lol. The only logical reason would be he's taking a bunch of long range shots and just not in a position to rebound, or just not giving enough effort on that end. Admittedly I didn't watch the game, so I'll leave it to Magic fans to educate me on the matter.

I'll check later but pretty sure that he averages 7 RPG when he starts with one center.

He mostly guarded Middleton who had the same amount of rebounds. So they were playing away from the basket. Middleton had more assists because his teammates were knocking down shots. Franz setup teammates perfectly but they couldn't make the shots. I'm partial but I think Franz looked better than Middleton in the two games.

Franz 20.7 PPG in the last 10.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/franz-wagner-10299/game-log

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Look at his size on the court. He looks almost 7' in shoes. With his height, quick feet, and athleticism, he should be close to the league lead in offensive rebounds. He needs to take some classes with Dennis Rodman, the professor of rebounding.

He's guarding on the perimeter. Fundamental basketball is to box out your man on the perimeter, which he does. He doubled Middleton's rebounds in the two games.

Franz was also pretty gassed last night. They should start resting him every 3rd or 4th game to keep him fresh.



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[orlando_joe]

I'll check later but pretty sure that he averages 7 RPG when he starts with one center.

He mostly guarded Middleton who had the same amount of rebounds. So they were playing away from the basket. Middleton had more assists because his teammates were knocking down shots. Franz setup teammates perfectly but they couldn't make the shots. I'm partial but I think Franz looked better than Middleton in the two games.

Franz 20.7 PPG in the last 10.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/franz-wagner-10299/game-log

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Look at his size on the court. He looks almost 7' in shoes. With his height, quick feet, and athleticism, he should be close to the league lead in offensive rebounds. He needs to take some classes with Dennis Rodman, the professor of rebounding.

He's guarding on the perimeter. Fundamental basketball is to box out your man on the perimeter, which he does. He doubled Middleton's rebounds in the two games.

Franz was also pretty gassed last night. They should start resting him every 3rd or 4th game to keep him fresh.



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also guy he is often compared to hayward career avg is 4.5 and did not get over 4 a game till his 4th yr..yet franz gets 4.7 half way thru rookie yr...would i like to see a couple more ..sure?

[AaronB]

Look at his size on the court. He looks almost 7' in shoes. With his height, quick feet, and athleticism, he should be close to the league lead in offensive rebounds. He needs to take some classes with Dennis Rodman, the professor of rebounding.

He's guarding on the perimeter. Fundamental basketball is to box out your man on the perimeter, which he does. He doubled Middleton's rebounds in the two games.

Franz was also pretty gassed last night. They should start resting him every 3rd or 4th game to keep him fresh.



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also guy he is often compared to hayward career avg is 4.5 and did not get over 4 a game till his 4th yr..yet franz gets 4.7 half way thru rookie yr...would i like to see a couple more ..sure?

Pretty sure Franz has 3-4 inches on Hayward, longer arms, quicker feet, and is more athletic.

[basketballRob]

He's guarding on the perimeter. Fundamental basketball is to box out your man on the perimeter, which he does. He doubled Middleton's rebounds in the two games.

Franz was also pretty gassed last night. They should start resting him every 3rd or 4th game to keep him fresh.



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also guy he is often compared to hayward career avg is 4.5 and did not get over 4 a game till his 4th yr..yet franz gets 4.7 half way thru rookie yr...would i like to see a couple more ..sure?

Pretty sure Franz has 3-4 inches on Hayward, longer arms, quicker feet, and is more athletic.

Durant averaged less rebounds in more minutes his rookie season.

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[srhcan]

Read on Twitter

poetry in motion

[NirvanaFC]

Warriors fans, would you rather have Kuminga or Franz?

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

such a dope highlight. ive watched it waaaay too many times.

[AaronB]

Read on Twitter

such a dope highlight. ive watched it waaaay too many times.

Jordan-esque

[thelead]

Any idea when Suggs comes back? Or is his return TBD? How to Magic fans feel on Franz/Suggs ceiling? Does anyone still think Suggs has the higher ceiling between the two?

No idea on Suggs return. The magic have been EXTREMELY cautious with injuries as of late. I see Franz’ ceiling as a #2 guy but he keeps making me adjust my expectations with his excellent play. I thought he was going to be a great glue guy/potential starter when we drafted him so I’m pleasantly surprised by how well and, more importantly, how efficient he has played. As for Suggs, I didn’t think he had much star potential during the draft process and still hold the belief that he will be an important piece to a winning team. His defense is special and much needed. If he can get his offense turned around, I can see a Jrue/Lowry type of career. If not, maybe someone like Bledsoe/George Hill. I dunno, it’s so hard to predict because it all depends on how much these guys want it and the opportunities they get to prove it.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Any idea when Suggs comes back? Or is his return TBD? How to Magic fans feel on Franz/Suggs ceiling? Does anyone still think Suggs has the higher ceiling between the two?

We have no idea when he’s coming back. And that’s the same answer for every injured player on our team. Before his unfortunately injury he was getting into a groove. Yeah, he came out slower than we would have hoped but honestly I like him. Both players are so young, I don’t know what there ceiling are. I just hope they keep progressing.

[petebraun0]

thought not in the top ten for rookies, it seems like Bulls fans are pretty happy with the play of Ayo Dosumu (sp).
he is playing so well, we just might be able to trade Coby White for another big. Ayo is playing great defense, is hitting his outside shots, gets to basket often, and has scored in double digits more than a few times. We may have gotten the steal of the 2nd round or steal of the draft in terms of outplaying the position taken.

Ayo has been a pleasant surprise.

[TheLand13]

Another question, clearly not having garland/Rubio affected the cavs scoring options and needed Mobley to take on a heavier burden. But I feel not having Allen was just as, if not more important defensively for him.

What's the question here? If Allen not being there affected Mobley offensively in a negative way? If so, not really. Like I mentioned before, not having Allen there opened Mobley up with more offensive opportunities. But the problem is that he had to set up a lot of the shots himself, where as when Garland and Rubio are out there, he usually has an easier time getting his looks. But on the other hand, because Allen wasn't there, the paint wasn't as clogged and thus Mobley had room to work with, and it resulted in some nice plays inside.

Truth be told, due to Mobley's frame, I'd much rather that he continue to play the 4 spot while Allen stays at the 5. It allows Mobley to play a less physical style of basketball on the offensive end and gives him a reason to work on his midrange and outside game, which I think will be key to his offensive development.

Basically what was more of a factor or issue for Mobley last night. Was it not having the guards to get him in position/offensive burden, or not having Allen as a defender/rebounder/helper. I get not having Allen in the paint opened up offensive touches, but like you said Mobes probably isn't ready for the 5 yet, plus he only had 5 rebs.

Kevin Love was playing the four and played starter minutes, so he ate up a lot of the rebounds. Kevin Love may not be the player he used to be, but he's still an elite rebounder who is playing with the energy and effort we haven't seen him play with in years. Jarrett Allen probably would have faced the same issue.

The bigger factor (or impact I guess) was not having Garland and Rubio around to set up Mobley with easier shot opportunities. It made him have to exert more energy and effort and by the end of the game you could tell he was gassed. Defensively he had little to no issues as he continued to provide it at an elite rate, although he was a little regressed in that regard as he had to put in more effort on offense (but not to the point where it cost them the game obviously).

The most important thing for Mobley's development won't be whether or not he has Allen with him. That is more of a cherry on top sort of speak in regards to the opportunities he has with Cleveland. Mobley will provide elite defense with or without Allen. What having Allen does out there with Mobley is create legitimate match up problems for the opposing teams on both ends of the floor. It's very difficult to deal with two seven footers (well, Allen's 6'11 but close enough) who are incredibly active, mobile and skilled. It makes it very difficult to deal with them in the paint on offense, especially when one of them has already shown he has pretty good playmaking and passing abilities. And then on defense, they're a nightmare to deal with. They can lock up the paint, and switching on them is basically a death sentence because they're capable of defending at the perimeter.

So in other words, Allen being there gives Mobley another large body to work with, but it's not going to stop him from providing elite defense and a good all around game.

[Tripod]

What's the question here? If Allen not being there affected Mobley offensively in a negative way? If so, not really. Like I mentioned before, not having Allen there opened Mobley up with more offensive opportunities. But the problem is that he had to set up a lot of the shots himself, where as when Garland and Rubio are out there, he usually has an easier time getting his looks. But on the other hand, because Allen wasn't there, the paint wasn't as clogged and thus Mobley had room to work with, and it resulted in some nice plays inside.

Truth be told, due to Mobley's frame, I'd much rather that he continue to play the 4 spot while Allen stays at the 5. It allows Mobley to play a less physical style of basketball on the offensive end and gives him a reason to work on his midrange and outside game, which I think will be key to his offensive development.

Basically what was more of a factor or issue for Mobley last night. Was it not having the guards to get him in position/offensive burden, or not having Allen as a defender/rebounder/helper. I get not having Allen in the paint opened up offensive touches, but like you said Mobes probably isn't ready for the 5 yet, plus he only had 5 rebs.

Kevin Love was playing the four and played starter minutes, so he ate up a lot of the rebounds. Kevin Love may not be the player he used to be, but he's still an elite rebounder who is playing with the energy and effort we haven't seen him play with in years. Jarrett Allen probably would have faced the same issue.

The bigger factor (or impact I guess) was not having Garland and Rubio around to set up Mobley with easier shot opportunities. It made him have to exert more energy and effort and by the end of the game you could tell he was gassed. Defensively he had little to no issues as he continued to provide it at an elite rate, although he was a little regressed in that regard as he had to put in more effort on offense (but not to the point where it cost them the game obviously).

The most important thing for Mobley's development won't be whether or not he has Allen with him. That is more of a cherry on top sort of speak in regards to the opportunities he has with Cleveland. Mobley will provide elite defense with or without Allen. What having Allen does out there with Mobley is create legitimate match up problems for the opposing teams on both ends of the floor. It's very difficult to deal with two seven footers (well, Allen's 6'11 but close enough) who are incredibly active, mobile and skilled. It makes it very difficult to deal with them in the paint on offense, especially when one of them has already shown he has pretty good playmaking and passing abilities. And then on defense, they're a nightmare to deal with. They can lock up the paint, and switching on them is basically a death sentence because they're capable of defending at the perimeter.

So in other words, Allen being there gives Mobley another large body to work with, but it's not going to stop him from providing elite defense and a good all around game.

I know this Raptors fan is very jealous of the size the Cavs have. You have 3 guys who would be better at C than anyone we have. Cavs should 100% keep that size advantage.

[TheLand13]

Basically what was more of a factor or issue for Mobley last night. Was it not having the guards to get him in position/offensive burden, or not having Allen as a defender/rebounder/helper. I get not having Allen in the paint opened up offensive touches, but like you said Mobes probably isn't ready for the 5 yet, plus he only had 5 rebs.

Kevin Love was playing the four and played starter minutes, so he ate up a lot of the rebounds. Kevin Love may not be the player he used to be, but he's still an elite rebounder who is playing with the energy and effort we haven't seen him play with in years. Jarrett Allen probably would have faced the same issue.

The bigger factor (or impact I guess) was not having Garland and Rubio around to set up Mobley with easier shot opportunities. It made him have to exert more energy and effort and by the end of the game you could tell he was gassed. Defensively he had little to no issues as he continued to provide it at an elite rate, although he was a little regressed in that regard as he had to put in more effort on offense (but not to the point where it cost them the game obviously).

The most important thing for Mobley's development won't be whether or not he has Allen with him. That is more of a cherry on top sort of speak in regards to the opportunities he has with Cleveland. Mobley will provide elite defense with or without Allen. What having Allen does out there with Mobley is create legitimate match up problems for the opposing teams on both ends of the floor. It's very difficult to deal with two seven footers (well, Allen's 6'11 but close enough) who are incredibly active, mobile and skilled. It makes it very difficult to deal with them in the paint on offense, especially when one of them has already shown he has pretty good playmaking and passing abilities. And then on defense, they're a nightmare to deal with. They can lock up the paint, and switching on them is basically a death sentence because they're capable of defending at the perimeter.

So in other words, Allen being there gives Mobley another large body to work with, but it's not going to stop him from providing elite defense and a good all around game.

I know this Raptors fan is very jealous of the size the Cavs have. You have 3 guys who would be better at C than anyone we have. Cavs should 100% keep that size advantage.

Yeah well, you might be jealous of our bigs, but right now I'm jealous of your wings. Trent JR, Barnes, OG, I would love to have any one of these guys on the Cavaliers right now. There seems to be this weird dynamic where the Cavs and Raptors are loaded in the areas that both teams would love to have a little extra help in. The Raptors are a Jarrett Allen away from being one of the best teams in the East, and a Trent JR on the Cavaliers would arguably make them favorites in the East. Unfortunately for you guys, Mobley and Allen are untouchable as far as trades are concerned right now (as they should be), but so are Trent and Barnes.