Game 33: Knicks (16-18) @ Pistons (5-27) - Dec. 29 7:00 PM EST

[440BB]

My biggest memory from this game was watching Garza set screens and roll to an open spot near the hoop and raise his hands...for nothing. Casey 's back.

The Pistons set the NBA record for lowest score by a team with two 30 point scorers.

[Moses ShamMoses]

All those missed free throws from Hami don't give me the warm and fuzzy when it comes to his shooting potential. 47% the last 10 games and its a glaring hole in his game right now.

[zeebneeb]

All those missed free throws from Hami don't give me the warm and fuzzy when it comes to his shooting potential. 47% the last 10 games and its a glaring hole in his game right now.

If memory serves, players who can't really shoot, usually never become good shooters. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[bstein14]

All those missed free throws from Hami don't give me the warm and fuzzy when it comes to his shooting potential. 47% the last 10 games and its a glaring hole in his game right now.

If memory serves, players who can't really shoot, usually never become good shooters. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Diallo is shooting 54.5% on shots in the 15-19 ft range which is best on the team, although he shoots only about a half attempt per game on average in that area. It's strange because he has pulled up in that range with seemingly a lot of confidence but he's been real bad at the line and pretty bad at the 3 point line.

That said, he's been elite for a guard in the paint. I know it was mentioned last night he's among the best in the league in the paint for guards when it comes to shooting percentage.

[bstein14]

Garza is a really solid screen setter and the fact that he can roll to the basket or pick and pop is a huge bonus for sure.

[flow]

I didn't understand why we gave Diallo that bs short-term, low-ball contract over the summer. I get that we're revving up for a big free agency year, but Diallo was always a player worth investing in to me. He is a real athletic talent. Something this team sorely lacks. Meanwhile, we paid Cory Joseph more than him. It's going to cost us. Sometimes I wonder if Weaver knows what he's doing.

I feel like 2 years $9 million was probably all he wanted to sign for if he was betting on himself. Ownership/Weaver would have probably gladly given him 3 years $15 million (with third year team option) or 4 years $20 million (with 4th year team option) but Diallo wanted to only sign short term so he can get a bigger deal in two years.

I've read or heard nothing to suggest that the bold is true. He wasn't looking for a prove it deal, he was looking to get paid and for security after making peanuts on a 2nd round contract his first three seasons.

We clearly didn't prioritize Diallo. And no offer sheets for him kept all the leverage with the team. I just thought Weaver had a better appreciation of what he had in him. We didn't have much money to play with by the time he signed. We of course had to make sure Cory Joseph was taken care of, pay Kelly Olynyk $36 mil, and ensure that enough money was set aside for Dwayne Dedmon & DeAndre Jordan.

[DetroitSho]

I didn't understand why we gave Diallo that bs short-term, low-ball contract over the summer. I get that we're revving up for a big free agency year, but Diallo was always a player worth investing in to me. He is a real athletic talent. Something this team sorely lacks. Meanwhile, we paid Cory Joseph more than him. It's going to cost us. Sometimes I wonder if Weaver knows what he's doing.

I feel like 2 years $9 million was probably all he wanted to sign for if he was betting on himself. Ownership/Weaver would have probably gladly given him 3 years $15 million (with third year team option) or 4 years $20 million (with 4th year team option) but Diallo wanted to only sign short term so he can get a bigger deal in two years.

I've read or heard nothing to suggest that the bold is true. He wasn't looking for a prove it deal, he was looking to get paid and for security after making peanuts on a 2nd round contract his first three seasons.

We clearly didn't prioritize Diallo. And no offer sheets for him kept all the leverage with the team. I just thought Weaver had a better appreciation of what he had in him. We didn't have much money to play with by the time he signed. We of course had to make sure Cory Joseph was taken care of, pay Kelly Olynyk $36 mil, and ensure that enough money was set aside for Dwayne Dedmon & DeAndre Jordan.

Sooooo you're upset that we didn't overpay?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[flow]

I feel like 2 years $9 million was probably all he wanted to sign for if he was betting on himself. Ownership/Weaver would have probably gladly given him 3 years $15 million (with third year team option) or 4 years $20 million (with 4th year team option) but Diallo wanted to only sign short term so he can get a bigger deal in two years.

I've read or heard nothing to suggest that the bold is true. He wasn't looking for a prove it deal, he was looking to get paid and for security after making peanuts on a 2nd round contract his first three seasons.

We clearly didn't prioritize Diallo. And no offer sheets for him kept all the leverage with the team. I just thought Weaver had a better appreciation of what he had in him. We didn't have much money to play with by the time he signed. We of course had to make sure Cory Joseph was taken care of, pay Kelly Olynyk $36 mil, and ensure that enough money was set aside for Dwayne Dedmon & DeAndre Jordan.

Sooooo you're upset that we didn't overpay?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

No, I'm disappointed that we'll either lose him after next season, right before we're (hopefully) ready to compete, or will have to pay much more to keep him after next season than if we had tied him up with a proper contract this season. There's a large gap between what we gave him and what would have been an overpay.

[bstein14]

I've read or heard nothing to suggest that the bold is true. He wasn't looking for a prove it deal, he was looking to get paid and for security after making peanuts on a 2nd round contract his first three seasons.

We clearly didn't prioritize Diallo. And no offer sheets for him kept all the leverage with the team. I just thought Weaver had a better appreciation of what he had in him. We didn't have much money to play with by the time he signed. We of course had to make sure Cory Joseph was taken care of, pay Kelly Olynyk $36 mil, and ensure that enough money was set aside for Dwayne Dedmon & DeAndre Jordan.

Sooooo you're upset that we didn't overpay?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

No, I'm disappointed that we'll either lose him after next season, right before we're (hopefully) ready to compete, or will have to pay much more to keep him after next season than if we had tied him up with a proper contract this season. There's a large gap between what we gave him and what would have been an overpay.

It's hard to say where he'll be at at that point. He is 23 years old now. Two years from now he could be a slightly below average starter that doesn't get a more than MLE offer from any other team and ends up staying with us for 4 years $48 million.

If he signed something longer like a 3 year $18 million this past summer he might end up getting a much larger deal as a FA at age 26 than he will as a FA at age 25.... if he keeps progressing forward. Hard to say for sure which contract he would end up getting a bigger contract under.

Right now he's been playing well, but its never a given with any player that signs a 4 year deal that you'll get the same effort from them as when they're nearing free agency. We've seen plenty of guys cash in on 4 or 5 year contracts over the years and never be as good as they were before the contract.

The only way this shorter contract really bites us is if he really takes off as a player and earns himself $15+ million per year in the summer of 2023 which I think is still unlikely, even though I'd love to see him really take off as a player.

[DetroitSho]

I've read or heard nothing to suggest that the bold is true. He wasn't looking for a prove it deal, he was looking to get paid and for security after making peanuts on a 2nd round contract his first three seasons.

We clearly didn't prioritize Diallo. And no offer sheets for him kept all the leverage with the team. I just thought Weaver had a better appreciation of what he had in him. We didn't have much money to play with by the time he signed. We of course had to make sure Cory Joseph was taken care of, pay Kelly Olynyk $36 mil, and ensure that enough money was set aside for Dwayne Dedmon & DeAndre Jordan.

Sooooo you're upset that we didn't overpay?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

No, I'm disappointed that we'll either lose him after next season, right before we're (hopefully) ready to compete, or will have to pay much more to keep him after next season than if we had tied him up with a proper contract this season. There's a large gap between what we gave him and what would have been an overpay.

I'm sorry but this line of thinking doesn't make sense.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[flow]

Sooooo you're upset that we didn't overpay?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

No, I'm disappointed that we'll either lose him after next season, right before we're (hopefully) ready to compete, or will have to pay much more to keep him after next season than if we had tied him up with a proper contract this season. There's a large gap between what we gave him and what would have been an overpay.

I'm sorry but this line of thinking doesn't make sense.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

If you think he's a keeper, it makes sense. I did. Weaver apparently didn't. He thought more of Cory Joseph, to whom he paid $2 mil more this year and gave a player option for next year, as opposed to a team option for Diallo. So embarrassing. Didn't think enough of Diallo to even guarantee a 2nd year, but gave Cory Joseph a player option. Imagine Cory Joseph turning down a $5 million option next season. Imagine any other team willing to even consider paying him half of that. Even SVG is laughing.

[Manocad]

No, I'm disappointed that we'll either lose him after next season, right before we're (hopefully) ready to compete, or will have to pay much more to keep him after next season than if we had tied him up with a proper contract this season. There's a large gap between what we gave him and what would have been an overpay.

I'm sorry but this line of thinking doesn't make sense.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

If you think he's a keeper, it makes sense. I did. Weaver apparently didn't. He thought more of Cory Joseph, to whom he paid $2 mil more this year and gave a player option for next year, as opposed to a team option for Diallo. So embarrassing. Didn't think enough of Diallo to even guarantee a 2nd year, but gave Cory Joseph a player option. Imagine Cory Joseph turning down a $5 million option next season. Imagine any other team willing to even consider paying him half of that. Even SVG is laughing.

What did you think he should have gotten? Like a 5 year, $50 million contract? This is the same guy who struggled to differentiate himself from Josh Jackson until this last handful of games and was thrown into every suggested trade, right?

[440BB]

Diallo got the best contract he could find on the open market from Weaver. I don't see a problem.

[Manocad]

Diallo got the best contract he could find on the open market from Weaver. I don't see a problem.

Yeah, it's a 100% hindsight take that may still not turn out to be accurate. As was mentioned, Diallo could very likely go back to what he was or something in between that and the player he's been in the last handful of games. And if he continues to play like an All Star then it requires All Star money to keep him, what's the problem? Given his age and history he wasn't going to get a long term deal from anyone--or he would have--so the possibility that he could have been locked up on a long term deal at a low price while continuing to play at a star level is unlikely.

[flow]

Diallo got the best contract he could find on the open market from Weaver. I don't see a problem.

Yeah, it's a 100% hindsight take

On whose part?

viewtopic.php?p=93460496#p93460496

viewtopic.php?p=93375515#p93375515

[Manocad]

Diallo got the best contract he could find on the open market from Weaver. I don't see a problem.

Yeah, it's a 100% hindsight take

On whose part?

viewtopic.php?p=93460496#p93460496

viewtopic.php?p=93375515#p93375515

Odd that you don't mention what your salary expectation was in either post. Only now are you claiming that a 2 year $10.4M deal was the wrong move as far as salary.

Reality was already hit right on the head. Diallo got what the market was willing to bear. End of story. And if he continues to play well he'll get a nice contract that I would 100% expect to be at fair market value, which is fine. Answer my question--what did you expect that he should have gotten? Something like a 5 year, $50 million contract and expect that he play out that contract scoring 20+ PPG, thus being a phenomenal value? Very unlikely scenario.

[flow]

Yeah, it's a 100% hindsight take

On whose part?

viewtopic.php?p=93460496#p93460496

viewtopic.php?p=93375515#p93375515

Odd that you don't mention what your salary expectation was in either post. Only now are you claiming that a 2 year $10.4M deal was the wrong move as far as salary.

Reality was already hit right on the head. Diallo got what the market was willing to bear. End of story. And if he continues to play well he'll get a nice contract that I would 100% expect to be at fair market value, which is fine. Answer my question--what did you expect that he should have gotten? Something like a 5 year, $50 million contract and expect that he play out that contract scoring 20+ PPG, thus being a phenomenal value? Very unlikely scenario.

Whatever dude. Just man up and admit you were mistaken in your accusation.




I expected him to get at least a 3, or 4 yr. deal. At probably around $18 or $24 mil. My concern, as it is now, was more with length than amount. Because, as I said then and now, I see him as a keeper. A significant contributer in this team's turnaround. And I sure as hell didn't expect him to get a lesser contract than Cory Joseph. If that was the market speaking, then the market was wrong.

[Manocad]

On whose part?

viewtopic.php?p=93460496#p93460496

viewtopic.php?p=93375515#p93375515

Odd that you don't mention what your salary expectation was in either post. Only now are you claiming that a 2 year $10.4M deal was the wrong move as far as salary.

Reality was already hit right on the head. Diallo got what the market was willing to bear. End of story. And if he continues to play well he'll get a nice contract that I would 100% expect to be at fair market value, which is fine. Answer my question--what did you expect that he should have gotten? Something like a 5 year, $50 million contract and expect that he play out that contract scoring 20+ PPG, thus being a phenomenal value? Very unlikely scenario.

Whatever dude. Just man up and admit you were mistaken in your accusation.




I expected him to get a 3 or 4 yr. deal. At probably around $18 or $24 mil. My concern, as it is now, was more with length than amount. But I sure as hell didn't expect him to get less money than Cory Joseph. If that was the market speaking, then the market was wrong.

I wasn't wrong about anything. You're now claiming that he is underpaid which is absolutely not only hindsight because you never mentioned a single thing about what you thought his pay should be, only that the team should lock him into a long term deal. Not even after he got the 2 year/$10.4M deal. And that's exactly what I focused on as being the hindsight part in my post--his pay.

There's no such thing as the market being wrong. The market sets the salaries. And like I said, even if the Pistons had signed him to a 4 year/$24M deal it's highly unlikely that not only will he continue to put up 20+/game, but that if he did for two years straight his agent wouldn't all up in Weaver's ears talking about a renegotiation or his client was going to haul ass as soon as that contract was up. Point being, it is nearly impossible to lock up a player long term on a "bargain" deal if they quickly outplay their contract. This has happened in sports MANY, MANY, MANY times before.

[flow]

Odd that you don't mention what your salary expectation was in either post. Only now are you claiming that a 2 year $10.4M deal was the wrong move as far as salary.

Reality was already hit right on the head. Diallo got what the market was willing to bear. End of story. And if he continues to play well he'll get a nice contract that I would 100% expect to be at fair market value, which is fine. Answer my question--what did you expect that he should have gotten? Something like a 5 year, $50 million contract and expect that he play out that contract scoring 20+ PPG, thus being a phenomenal value? Very unlikely scenario.

Whatever dude. Just man up and admit you were mistaken in your accusation.




I expected him to get a 3 or 4 yr. deal. At probably around $18 or $24 mil. My concern, as it is now, was more with length than amount. But I sure as hell didn't expect him to get less money than Cory Joseph. If that was the market speaking, then the market was wrong.

I wasn't wrong about anything. You're now claiming that he is underpaid which is absolutely not only hindsight because you never mentioned a single thing about what you thought his pay should be, only that the team should lock him into a long term deal. Not even after he got the 2 year/$10.4M deal. And that's exactly what I focused on as being the hindsight part in my post--his pay.

There's no such thing as the market being wrong. The market sets the salaries. And like I said, even if the Pistons had signed him to a 4 year/$24M deal it's highly unlikely that not only will he continue to put up 20+/game, but that if he did for two years straight his agent wouldn't all up in Weaver's ears talking about a renegotiation or his client was going to haul ass as soon as that contract was up. Point being, it is nearly impossible to lock up a player long term on a "bargain" deal if they quickly outplay their contract. This has happened in sports MANY, MANY, MANY times before.

As to the bold - Yes, after. Look at the first one again.

'Exactly what you focused on' wasn't '100%' of my take. And the context of your hindsight reference was that I was posting after his best game of year, not realizing that I was a big supporter of his all the way along and that I had expressed dissatisfaction with his contract back when it was announced. But you'd rather engage in mental masturbation than admit you were mistaken. That's fine, do your thing. Have a good night, happy new year.

[Manocad]

Whatever dude. Just man up and admit you were mistaken in your accusation.




I expected him to get a 3 or 4 yr. deal. At probably around $18 or $24 mil. My concern, as it is now, was more with length than amount. But I sure as hell didn't expect him to get less money than Cory Joseph. If that was the market speaking, then the market was wrong.

I wasn't wrong about anything. You're now claiming that he is underpaid which is absolutely not only hindsight because you never mentioned a single thing about what you thought his pay should be, only that the team should lock him into a long term deal. Not even after he got the 2 year/$10.4M deal. And that's exactly what I focused on as being the hindsight part in my post--his pay.

There's no such thing as the market being wrong. The market sets the salaries. And like I said, even if the Pistons had signed him to a 4 year/$24M deal it's highly unlikely that not only will he continue to put up 20+/game, but that if he did for two years straight his agent wouldn't all up in Weaver's ears talking about a renegotiation or his client was going to haul ass as soon as that contract was up. Point being, it is nearly impossible to lock up a player long term on a "bargain" deal if they quickly outplay their contract. This has happened in sports MANY, MANY, MANY times before.

As to the bold - Yes, after. Look at the first one again.

Exactly what you focused on wasn't '100%' of my take. And the context of your hindsight reference was that I was posting after his best game of year, not realizing that I was a big supporter of his all the way along and that I had expressed dissatisfaction with his contract back when it was announced. But you'd rather engage in mental masturbation than admit you were mistaken. That's fine, do your thing. Have a good night, happy new year.

You can tell me what I meant all you want and you're still going to be wrong. Notice my sentence that preceded the bolded part ABOUT HIS PAY. The only one performing mental masturbation is you by insisting Weaver made a mistake by not signing Diallo to your suggested contracts, as though that somehow negatively impacts the team's future. It's bitching just to bitch because here's how each possibility plays out in reality:

1. Diallo continues to play really well, like a $15+ million/year player. He will play out his contract and get $15+ million from the Pistons or someone else.
2. Diallo was instead signed to a 4 year, $24 million contract and continued to play like a $15+ million player. His agent would be all over the Pistons to renegotiate his contract or he'd walk after his contract was up. And very likely his contract would be renegotiated to fair market value if the Pistons were set on keeping him.
3. Diallo settles back into something between what he has been and what he's been in this last handful of games--the most likely possibility--plays out his existing contract then hits the market and gets what he gets.

You can insist all you want that Weaver screwed up by not signing Diallo to a 4 year, $24 million contract because it's a certainty that Diallo would have continued to play like a $15+ million player for all four years of that contract. And I'm telling you that that's not sports reality, whether you like it or not.

As far as your little attitude about this and pretty much everything in general, oh well. Sucks for you.