The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread - New Thread Soon Part 2

[nzahir]

Just saw the statline and watched the highlights...insane

Him and MJ are on the same tier and this longevity only helps his case as the GOAT

[homecourtloss]

Once again Bron unlocks his deepest, most refined offensive bag once he gets to year 4 with his new team (2014, 2018, and this season).

Pretty wild he’s doing this without much burst, explosion, lift.

The little screen-rolls with Westbrook are working well, a variant of the 1-4 screen game he had with Kyrie that was absolutely deadly though Kyrie was a much more effective scorer than Westbrook but Westbrook is a better passer.

We’ve seen LeBron as the 5 getting deep post position and finishing. Then there are the fadeaways that have been very effective even if they don’t look as aesthetic since he’s much heavier.

Post possessions and scoring (1+ post possessions per game, 20+ games played, 54 total players)

1. Turner, 1.18 PPP, 1.3 possessions per game, 31.1% FT frequency
2. James, 1.16 PPP, 3.0 possessions per game, 10.5% FT frequency
7. KD, 1.09 PPP, 3.1 possessions per game, 14.9% FT frequency
11. Embiid, 1.06 PPP, 8.6 possessions per game, 25.1% FT frequency
14. Jokic, 1.03 PPP, 5.0 possessions per game, 12.9% FT frequency
21. AD, .97 PPP, 4.0 possessions per game, 9.7% FT frequency
23. Carmelo, .96 PPP, 2.1 possessions per game, 6.6% FT frequency
24. Giannis, .96 PPP, 3.3 possessions per game, 15.5% FT frequency

He’s also 2nd in PPP on cuts: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/cut/?sort=PPP&dir=1&CF=POSS*GE*1:GP*GE*20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

4th in PPP on hand offs despite no shooting a single free throw of such a possession though they’re getting him open for deep threes this way and his rhythm has been exceptional https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hand-off/?sort=PPP&dir=1&CF=POSS*GE*.5:GP*GE*20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Top 20-30th percentile in transition, spot up, and as the primary ball handler on screen actions. His decline in athleticism has hurt him in ISO (.85 PPP, 45th percentile; 46th percentile in 2021, 59th in 2020, 73rd in 2019, 71st in 2018, 77th in 2017, 59th in 2016).

[D.Brasco]

He was called a freak of nature at 17, he's perhaps more a freak of nature for what he's doing at 37

Read on Twitter

[Baski]

Not seeing a lot of "He's not the best player on his team" posts lately. Wonder if that crowd has changed their minds.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Watch on YouTube

I can watch **** like this forever. This is the most impressive part of Lebron.

Only a few select players think that far ahead when it comes to making plays and it's incredible to watch when broken down.

[McBubbles]

I don’t think I even argue with his take that LeBron has been declining since 2013. I’d easily take 2016-2018 LeBron over 2013 LeBron. He may have been more athletic in 2013 but that’s it, imo. 2018 LeBron doesn’t take only 18 shots a game in the finals like 2014 LeBron did. Frankly, if you swap 2018 playoff LeBron with 2014 LeBron, they may beat the Spurs.

i dont remember offense being the reason why miami lost in 2014 but rather the fact they were absolutely murdered by spurs offense, 2017 finals lite

then again. it has been a long time so i may be misremembering that series

Yeah I think the low shot totals were because the entire series was garbage time. Imo 14 Lebron actually had one of the best repertoires. That was the most comfortable he looked generating buckets against the Spurs in his whole playoff career. Heat lost because 14 spurs were hot and their ball movement heavy offense was the natural enemy of Heat's trap heavy defense.

According to Kerr the 14 Spurs was one of the inspirations for what we see in the 15-17 and present warriors. Back then Spoelstra also wasn't as polished as he is now. The Heat didn't adjust their trap spammy defense to not trap spurs non-scorers. At a point Diaw was shredding them with passing, a guy with no scoring gravity was drawing help, it was nuts, Spurs were amazing but the Heat made it too easy at times. I honestly thought that was as bad as brooks refusing to downsize in the 12 finals.

I was thinking about this for a bit, even considered making a post on it, but Spoelstra was kinda crappy as a coach during the Heatles era honestly. He was Vogel-esque, a good defensive coach who sucked on offence. It came out that in 2011 that the Heat, at the behest of Spoelstra, basically didn't touch offence in practice, which in hindsight was kinda obvious.

In 2012 the Heat had so little 3 point shooting (ranked 22nd in attempts and 20th in percentage) that Lebron actually took more mid range shots than layups that season, and when Bosh went down his first coaching move wasn't move Bron to the 4, but to start Ronny Turiaf. He also made Lebron shoot his career low in 3's despite their spacing woes. Not a very "our coach is a stat guy move".

In the 2013 Finals he kept Wade in even after his injury and complete lack of spacing was tanking the Heats offence and was extremely slow to adjust, and in the 2014 Finals he adjusted so slow that he didn't adjust at all ._. just got blown tf out by the Spurs pass heavy offence and never changed his defensive scheme. So he didn't do the only thing he was even particularly good at coaching wise in the Finals.

Not to mention that despite the fact Lebron is a better on ball player than off ball player, and the Heat's offence was way better with Lebron having the ball in his hands, Spoelstra had a weird fetish for taking the ball OUT of Lebron's hands and not even into Wade's hands, but into the hands of Mario **** Chalmers. This peaked in 2014 with both Lebron and Wade averaging their career low assists/100 in the post season that year with Chalmers averaging his second career highest / highest in the Heatles era.

[trickshot]

i dont remember offense being the reason why miami lost in 2014 but rather the fact they were absolutely murdered by spurs offense, 2017 finals lite

then again. it has been a long time so i may be misremembering that series

In the 2013 Finals he kept Wade in even after his injury and complete lack of spacing was tanking the Heats offence and was extremely slow to adjust, and in the 2014 Finals he adjusted so slow that he didn't adjust at all ._. just got blown tf out by the Spurs pass heavy offence and never changed his defensive scheme. So he didn't do the only thing he was even particularly good at coaching wise in the Finals.

Not to mention that despite the fact Lebron is a better on ball player than off ball player, and the Heat's offence was way better with Lebron having the ball in his hands, Spoelstra had a weird fetish for taking the ball OUT of Lebron's hands and not even into Wade's hands, but into the hands of Mario **** Chalmers. This peaked in 2014 with both Lebron and Wade averaging their career low assists/100 in the post season that year with Chalmers averaging his second career highest / highest in the Heatles era.

Spoelstra was promising but still really really green. He should for sure have used Wade sparingly, he was injured and the Spurs got to ignore him. I understand Wade was Mr Miami so they were committed to riding or dying with him which was honestly a bit naive. That game 6 4th quarter where he was benched was like an anchor taken off the neck of the offense. They erased that Spurs lead so quick. The naivety of the wade decision got somewhat downplayed because Wade finally showed up in game 7 but that series also felt like they didn't put their best foot forward till game 6.

In 14 they played right into the spurs hands, Diaw as an example had an almost 20 minute Montage of Heat overreacting to anything he did. He could sneeze and draw 2 defenders. Like the first possession here, overreacting to a diaw drive and leaving Duncan open under the basket. The gameplan had no real threat grading, they trapped and scrambled to wherever the ball was. Draymond Green would win Finals MVP every time if teams played him this way. Current Spo would coach circles around the Heat repeat spoelstra. Liked his adjustments after game 2 of the 20 finals.

Watch on YouTube

[Run DLC]

I would love to see the Lakers make the playoffs this year while LeBron leading the league in PPG in year 19.

[falcolombardi]

Once again Bron unlocks his deepest, most refined offensive bag once he gets to year 4 with his new team (2014, 2018, and this season).

Pretty wild he’s doing this without much burst, explosion, lift.

The little screen-rolls with Westbrook are working well, a variant of the 1-4 screen game he had with Kyrie that was absolutely deadly though Kyrie was a much more effective scorer than Westbrook but Westbrook is a better passer.

We’ve seen LeBron as the 5 getting deep post position and finishing. Then there are the fadeaways that have been very effective even if they don’t look as aesthetic since he’s much heavier.

Post possessions and scoring (1+ post possessions per game, 20+ games played, 54 total players)

1. Turner, 1.18 PPP, 1.3 possessions per game, 31.1% FT frequency
2. James, 1.16 PPP, 3.0 possessions per game, 10.5% FT frequency
7. KD, 1.09 PPP, 3.1 possessions per game, 14.9% FT frequency
11. Embiid, 1.06 PPP, 8.6 possessions per game, 25.1% FT frequency
14. Jokic, 1.03 PPP, 5.0 possessions per game, 12.9% FT frequency
21. AD, .97 PPP, 4.0 possessions per game, 9.7% FT frequency
23. Carmelo, .96 PPP, 2.1 possessions per game, 6.6% FT frequency
24. Giannis, .96 PPP, 3.3 possessions per game, 15.5% FT frequency

He’s also 2nd in PPP on cuts: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/cut/?sort=PPP&dir=1&CF=POSS*GE*1:GP*GE*20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

4th in PPP on hand offs despite no shooting a single free throw of such a possession though they’re getting him open for deep threes this way and his rhythm has been exceptional https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hand-off/?sort=PPP&dir=1&CF=POSS*GE*.5:GP*GE*20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Top 20-30th percentile in transition, spot up, and as the primary ball handler on screen actions. His decline in athleticism has hurt him in ISO (.85 PPP, 45th percentile; 46th percentile in 2021, 59th in 2020, 73rd in 2019, 71st in 2018, 77th in 2017, 59th in 2016).

notice that he has one of the lower free throw rates of the post (only teammates davis and Carmelo are lower) the latter being understandable as more of a pure shooter at this point but davis ft% rate is kind ox perplexing

jokic, who everyone coincides gets no respect from the refs is higher, dursnt -who i would be surprised if he was being more physical in his post ups thst lebron- is fairly higher too

[falcolombardi]

Watch on YouTube

I can watch **** like this forever. This is the most impressive part of Lebron.

Only a few select players think that far ahead when it comes to making plays and it's incredible to watch when broken down.

lebron resiliency in offense against draymond green, particularly in the tactical game is probably one of the best feathers in his cap

[kayess]

curry, giannis and jokic?

Durant

Yea cuz if we're being real I think Jokic is still smacking LeBron and the rest of the league in production right now.

@kayess I'm several games behind due to some distractions these last few weeks but I've started catching up. Just watched the Suns game, but I've been keeping up with the thread and am really looking forward to seeing the god stretch that's been happening. Will absolutely post my thoughts upon catching up, but whoever mentioned LeBron's finishing touch earlier in the thread is right on the money. I've seen a few finishes from him during the Suns and Bulls games that I didn't actually expect to go in given the angle he was coming in on and the slight lack of elevation he had. Bron is gonna be a great under the rim finisher even in his old age.

Also in regards to 2014, only Jesus Christ himself could've saved the Heat in that series in lieu of LeBron lol. Idk if a healthy Wade would've even been enough. You'd have needed 2018 Bron and a Healthy Wade to have beaten that buzzsaw

I forgot to ask specifically you - given his injuries and all that ****, how roided out do you think he is rn? hahaha

[SideshowBob]

It's almost mid-season. What's the latest and greatest take on LeBron/the Lakers? Also, what in the **** has happened to AD?

What's this year looking like for you? Is he still a +7 player (and most of that on O)? I know the '11/'12/'13/'14 - '15/'16/'17 parallels have been **** by injuries, but idk what's really changed

What's his athleticism/halfcourt/etc. etc. looking like nowadays?

Can't wait for a federer think-piece esque on how long the "decline" has been, a la: https://the-cauldron.com/the-eternal-sunset-of-roger-federer-95cb4ab3e955?gi=3535c1222527 (written before he'd win a bunch more slams!). Any must-read/watch breakdowns of LeBron this year?

Eh maybe. I had him at 6.5ish in 2020 and I think he's similar to that now (.25 higher O / .25-0.50 lower D). Last 19 games (since return from injury) he's at 30/8/6 on 65% TS so this is starting to become a legit sample size (and that includes the 10 point 21 minute ejection game).

If he doesn't have a pouty/slumpy stretch in the next few months this is going to be his best RS statline since like 13 or 14 (example: 2018 first 33 G 28/8/9 on 66% TS / last 30 G 30/10/10 on 62% TS / middle 19 G 23/8/8 on 56% TS lol).

If we see his athleticism trend up later in the season as we've seen in other seasons and he's got a slightly larger slashing component, I can buy his at-rim gravity being enough to bump him a half point or so on offense, and then we're in +7 range overall (like +6/+1).

Bigger question is can he avoid more injuries. We'll still see him have sluggish/gassed nights, that's been normal and escalating since even 2013, so I write those in. But we've seen majorly hampering injuries twice in the past 3 years now...

[thebigbird]

Durant

Yea cuz if we're being real I think Jokic is still smacking LeBron and the rest of the league in production right now.

@kayess I'm several games behind due to some distractions these last few weeks but I've started catching up. Just watched the Suns game, but I've been keeping up with the thread and am really looking forward to seeing the god stretch that's been happening. Will absolutely post my thoughts upon catching up, but whoever mentioned LeBron's finishing touch earlier in the thread is right on the money. I've seen a few finishes from him during the Suns and Bulls games that I didn't actually expect to go in given the angle he was coming in on and the slight lack of elevation he had. Bron is gonna be a great under the rim finisher even in his old age.

Also in regards to 2014, only Jesus Christ himself could've saved the Heat in that series in lieu of LeBron lol. Idk if a healthy Wade would've even been enough. You'd have needed 2018 Bron and a Healthy Wade to have beaten that buzzsaw

I forgot to ask specifically you - given his injuries and all that ****, how roided out do you think he is rn? hahaha

He might be roided up to his eyeballs right now, idk, but he’s dominating right now despite not looking super explosive or athletic.

[falcolombardi]

it is being discussed in another thread about greatest rim slashers but how good do you think lebron would be at it in the 70's-90's? (the jordan vs lebron best rim slashers thread)

my impression is that he would ve still the best in the league at it just like he was in the late 00's (except maybe for wade?) but many think the more bigger bodies and cramped spacing would limit him compared to smaller slashers like jordan

i have many doubts about the idea, generally smaller or more finnese Driven rim game is less efficient that raw power finishing where you can absorb the contact and finish without needing to make Extreme body contours (no matter how good you are at that)

the assumption seems to be that lebron never played against conparable rim protectors than jordan, but i find it questionable since jordan was not exactly playing against robinson or hakeem 100% of the time either, and based on efficiency against ewing knicks in playoffs it seems a safe bet that jordan was not impervious to great rim protectors (neither is lebron for that matter)

also the fact that lebron has comparable efficiency to prime jordan (sometimes better,s sometimes a bit worse but more often the former) with generally much worse free throw and junpshooting makes me assume lebron had a clear edge in either rim volume or rim efficiency

[Heej]

From top to bottom LeBron is facing bigger and more athletic rim defenders nowadays. Weight training was hardly a thing in the 80s and 90s, especially compared to nowadays. When you watch footage and see how small and skinny a lot of those big men and players in general were, then the answer would be clear as to who faces more opposition at the rim on a nightly basis possession by possession.

[falcolombardi]

man, lakers board is weird

"so, it's pretty clear LeBron is gunning for Kareem's all time Scoring Leader crown...

it'll be kind of a shame if/when he does... That's the one record that defines the difference in eras more than any other, and what Malone, Kareem and even MJ did in achieving their place on it, is special and shouldn't be a victim of the modern era...

Kareem attempted 18 3pt shots for his entire career.. Malone attempted 301. MJ attempted 1778.

LeBron on the other hand is 8th on the all time attempts leader-board

So in a way, if Lebron passes Kareem (he seems sure to pass Malone, which is a shame in itself), it will likely, forever change the narrative about scoring in the NBA. And IMO cheapen the greatness of those who went before him...

Time for a weighted scale... Most points by someone with fewer than 2000 3pt attempts, and most for someone with over 2000...
MJ, I think deserves to be on the same mountain with Malone and Kareem, but I'm not so sure guys who came after like Kobe, LeBron, Curry do..."

apparently breaking récords is shameful and disrespectful to older eras which obviously deserved them way more cause reasons?

[homecourtloss]

man, lakers board is weird

"so, it's pretty clear LeBron is gunning for Kareem's all time Scoring Leader crown...

it'll be kind of a shame if/when he does... That's the one record that defines the difference in eras more than any other, and what Malone, Kareem and even MJ did in achieving their place on it, is special and shouldn't be a victim of the modern era...

Kareem attempted 18 3pt shots for his entire career.. Malone attempted 301. MJ attempted 1778.

LeBron on the other hand is 8th on the all time attempts leader-board

So in a way, if Lebron passes Kareem (he seems sure to pass Malone, which is a shame in itself), it will likely, forever change the narrative about scoring in the NBA. And IMO cheapen the greatness of those who went before him...

Time for a weighted scale... Most points by someone with fewer than 2000 3pt attempts, and most for someone with over 2000...
MJ, I think deserves to be on the same mountain with Malone and Kareem, but I'm not so sure guys who came after like Kobe, LeBron, Curry do..."

apparently breaking récords is shameful and disrespectful to older eras which obviously deserved them way more cause reasons?

Lakers’ message boards are really strange and stuck in the past for a variety of reasons. You’ll have posters even today and having spent 8-10 years on basketball boards citing slash lines when defending Drummond or Westbrook or AD.

There’s also this belief that LeBron played the majority of his career in a wide open league when actually the opposite is true. The only time LeBron has spent in a wide open league when he was past 31 years of age when most players are already beginning to decline. There’s also the belief that Jordan played the majority of his career in a tough defensive slowball era when in fact he put up his greatest scoring numbers in a wide open FAA psced 1985-1990/1991 era.

The fact of the matter is that LeBron has adjusted his game to whatever era he’s been in. The league right now is completely and utterly different than the league he came into, yet he has been able to refine his game every single year to remain relevant and now at the age of 37 is at the top of the scorers’ list with an efficiency currently ahead of Curry’s and Durant’s. Jordan’s relative efficiency declined as he aged and lost athleticism. LeBron’s really hasn’t yet LeBron is “no skilled,” “doesn’t have footwork,” etc., etc.

[Run DLC]

62 boards away from 10k rebounds.

[Mos_Heat]

Big portion of the Lakers fanbase are crazy people, so it's not really that surprising that they are actively rooting against the best player on their team

[homecourtloss]

Scoring titles are generally a young man’s thing though you’ve seen all the players across-the-board up there in the scoring title chases.

Kareem’s last time in thr top 3 was at 29. West was the first person in his 30s to win a scoring title in 1970 and then it didn't happen again until Jordan did it in 1996. KD winning a scoring title 12 seasons after his first one would be wild. Jordan has an 11 year span between first and last song titles, and the oldest to do it. You don’t see anyone in the top 3 of any season after age 33 other than Karl Malone. James in the top 3 scorers in 2005 and then in 2022 is just incredible. Winning a scoring title at 37 and 14 years since his last one would be an unprecedented feat as the league today is Michi much different from the one James played in during the 2008 season.

Scoring leaders by age

2022: KD, 33; James, 37; Curry, 33
2021: Curry, 32; Beal, 27; Lillard, 30
2020: Harden, 30; Beal, 26; Lillard, 29
2019: Harden, 29; PG13, 28; Giannis, 24
2018: Harden, 28; AD, 24; James, 33
2017: Westbrook, 28; Harden, 27; IT, 27
2016: Curry, 27; Harden, 26; KD, 27
2015: Westbrook, 26; Harden, 25; James, 30
2014: KD, 25; ‘Melo, 29; James, 29
2013: ‘Melo, 28; KD, 24; Kobe, 34
2012: KD, 23; Kobe, 33; James, 27
2011: KD, 22; James, 26; ‘Melo, 26
2010: KD, 21; James, 25; ‘Melo, 25
2009: Wade, 27; James, 24; Kobe, 30
2008: James, 23; Kobe, 29; Iverson, 32
2007: Kobe, 28; ‘Melo, 22; Arenas, 25
2006: Kobe, 27; Iverson, 30; James, 21
2005: Iverson, 29; Kobe, 26; James, 20
2004: TMac, 24; Peja, 26; KG, 27
2003: TMac, 23; Kobe, 24; Iverson, 27
2002: Iverson, 26; Shaq, 29; Pierce, 24
2001: Iverson, 25; Stackhouse, 26; Shaq, 28
2000: Shaq, 27; Iverson, 24; G. Hill, 27
1999: Iverson, 23; Shaq, 26; K. Malone, 35
1998: Jordan, 34; Shaq, 25; K. Malone, 34
1997: Jordan, 33; K. Malone, 33; G. Rice, 29
1996: Jordan, 32; Hakeem, 33; Shaq, 23
1995: Shaq, 22; Hakeem, 32; DRob, 29
1994: DRon, 28; Shaq, 21; Hakeem, 31
1993: Jordan, 29; Wilkins, 33; K. Malone, 29
1992: Jordan, 28; K. Malone, 28; Mullin, 28
1991: Jordan, 27; K. Malone, 27; King, 34
1990: Jordan, 26; K. Malone, 26; Ewing, 27
1989: Jordan, 25; K. Malone, 25; D. Ellis, 28
1988: Jordan, 24; Wilkins, 28; Bird, 31
1987: Jordan, 23; Wilkins, 27; English, 33
1986: Wilkins, 26; Dantley, 30; English, 32
1985: King, 28; Bird, 28; Jordan, 21
1984: Dantley, 28; Aguirre, 24; Kiki, 25
1983: English, 29; Kiki, 24; Tripuka, 23
1982: Gervin, 29; Moses, 26; Dantley, 26
1981: Dantley, 25; Moses, 25; Gervin, 28
1980: Gervin, 27; W. Free, 26; Dantley, 24
1979: Gervin, 26; W. Free, 25; Marques J., 22
1978: Gervin, 25; D. Thompson, 23; McAdoo, 26
1977: Pistol, 29; B Knight, 24; Kareem, 29
1976: McAdoo, 24; Kareem, 28; Pistol, 28
1975: McAdoo, 23; Barry, 30; Kareem, 27
1974: McAdoo, 22; Pistol, 26; Kareem, 26
1973: Tiny, 24; Kareem, 25; Haywood, 23
1972: Kareem, 24; Tiny, 23; Havlicek, 31
1971: Kareem, 23; Havlicek, 30; Hayes, 25
1970: West, 31; Kareem, 22; Haynes, 24
1969: Hayes, 23; Monroe, 24; Cunningham, 25
1968: Oscar, 29; 24; Baylor, 33
1967: Barry, 22; Oscar, 28; West, 28
1966: Wilt, 29; West, 27; Oscar, 27
1965: Wilt, 28; West, 26; Oscar, 26
1964: Wilt, 27; Oscar, 25; West, 25
1963: Wilt, 26; Baylor, 28; Pettit, 30
1962: Wilt, 25; Bellamy, 22; Petitt, 29
1961: Wilt, 24; Baylor, 26; Oscar, 22
1960: Wilt, 23; Twyman, 25; Baylor, 25