2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[Kurtz]

Closer to the truth than a lot of other takes out there. Hard to make the point more emphatically given the other leading contenders all scored 25+ —on their way to losses.

If this is Curry playing bad then consider what his impact is when he is playing well.

He was being sarcastic.

This whole gravity mythos is getting a bit out of hand - his gravity is no more noticeable than for the other mvp candidates.

His on/off is +16.5. That's excellent, but well behind Joker (23.6), Giannis (20.7) and KD/Lebron (18.2).

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

I don't think I've ever heard of excellent team ball-movement be attributed to a single player. Coaching, sure, but a single player?

[WarriorGM]

He was being sarcastic.

This whole gravity mythos is getting a bit out of hand - his gravity is no more noticeable than for the other mvp candidates.

His on/off is +16.5. That's excellent, but well behind Joker (23.6), Giannis (20.7) and KD/Lebron (18.2).

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

I don't think I've ever heard of excellent team ball-movement be attributed to a single player. Coaching, sure, but a single player?

Curry already had a college game that proved it. Kerr's history without Curry isn't exactly compelling either.

[WhatTheBuck]

I'll give Curry this much: he has massive gravitational force around his nuts, and it drags all Warriors fans to them.

[Kurtz]

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

I don't think I've ever heard of excellent team ball-movement be attributed to a single player. Coaching, sure, but a single player?

Curry already had a college game that proved it. Kerr's history without Curry isn't exactly compelling either.

He was regularly triple-teamed in college, but all of his teammates were hardworking but unathletic 6'4 guys who had trouble hitting a layup.

[Castle Black]

Curry’s been playing poorly since well before he broke the record tbh. Don’t let the media narrative fool you. He’s still a great player obv but he’s winning cause he’s on a really good Warriors team.

MVP race is wide open right now. My current leaders are:

1. Giannis
2. KD
3. Jokic
4. Curry
5. Lebron
6. Embiid
7. DeMar

[eyeatoma]

Current Rankings (imo)

1. Steph
2. KD
3. Giannis
4. Joker
5. Demarr
6. Cp3
7. Embiid
8. Morant
9. Lebron
10. Gobert

Steph is most definitely not #1 anymore. He's at #5 at this point.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not how it works. Clear cut best player on the best team. And he’s winning with any assortment of lineups out there with a next man up mentality. There’s no reason that he’s not top 2-3 at worse. He’s missing shots but let’s keep repeating this - his gravity is something that simply cannot be explained by basic stats. There’s a reason that this team is so good and it starts and ends with Steph.

If Steph goes down for 20 games this team is at best would finish 10-10. And that’s no knock on the team or the players. He’s the adamantium / vibranium car frame. Drays the engine.

It is actually how it works. You can be the best player on the best team, but if you're not performing the best, and others are playing better, then, you lose your MVP spot. Plenty of top ranked teams have had the best players not win.

I mean, look at Embiid, best player on the best team in the East didn't win. Jokic won it last year and they weren't the best team. Westbrook wasn't on the best team when he won, Durant wasn't on the best team he won.

You can say the same thing with Giannis team, Jokers, and Embiid's team if they were hurt. Hell, the Nuggets and Sixers would be lottery teams.

[eyeatoma]

Curry’s been playing poorly since well before he broke the record tbh. Don’t let the media narrative fool you. He’s still a great player obv but he’s winning cause he’s on a really good Warriors team.

MVP race is wide open right now. My current leaders are:

1. Giannis
2. KD
3. Jokic
4. Curry
5. Lebron
6. Embiid
7. DeMar

Is LeBron's a legacy vote? I get his incredible numbers but Lakers have been awful.

[_NoMas]

Closer to the truth than a lot of other takes out there. Hard to make the point more emphatically given the other leading contenders all scored 25+ —on their way to losses.

If this is Curry playing bad then consider what his impact is when he is playing well.

He was being sarcastic.

This whole gravity mythos is getting a bit out of hand - his gravity is no more noticeable than for the other mvp candidates.

His on/off is +16.5. That's excellent, but well behind Joker (23.6), Giannis (20.7) and KD/Lebron (18.2).

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

Curry can score zero, he'd still be the MVP.

Man I really hope that last line is a joke… but something tells me you’re being serious - this gravity stuff is really getting out of hand now.

[moderndarwin]

if scores zero and they win it likely means they were sending doubles and triples at him.

Isn’t it better basketball to do the right play and move along the ball so you’re teammates succeed via easy shots that are a result of 4 on 3s instead of hoisting up heavily contested shots?

[michaelm]

Give the MVP to whomever you like. I would far prefer another title.

[JN61]

Curry with another Stephania Curry memorial game with 1/10 shooting from the 3 and zero impact on the game. I'm sorry but this kind of shooting performances are several every 10 game spurts. It's unacceptable for someone to have him on top of the MVP list. Top5? Sure. Top 2? Nonsense. I'm leaning towards current listings of:

Giannis
Durant
Jokic
DeRozan
Curry

Derozan's insane play (and Currys poor play) has changed their positions on the listings and Giannis has gone past Durant for now after few poor games Nets have had recently and Giannis playing like a monster.

Honorable mentions Embiid and Lebron but I don't care about anyone outside of top 5. They don't have real chance to win MVP as of now but if Curry doesn't improve his play he is out of top 5 if Philly and Lakers continue to play well as teams. His last 10 games they are 8-2 and Curry has put up 40%/34% shooting while averaging 5.5 assists and 4 turnovers. That is just unacceptable from player who some regard to be in the MVP race. In the last 20 games he has 12 games where he has missed 9 or more 3 point shots (his shooting % in those games is piss poor 32% which at such volume is insanely horrible). Only in 1 he has shot acceptable %s to justify such a volume.

[JN61]

Curry’s been playing poorly since well before he broke the record tbh. Don’t let the media narrative fool you. He’s still a great player obv but he’s winning cause he’s on a really good Warriors team.

MVP race is wide open right now. My current leaders are:

1. Giannis
2. KD
3. Jokic
4. Curry
5. Lebron
6. Embiid
7. DeMar

Is LeBron's a legacy vote? I get his incredible numbers but Lakers have been awful.

Has to be. Ridiculous to have Lebron over DeRozan at this point. Bulls on 8 game winning streak, Derozan averaging 28.5/5.8 assists on 48%/55.6% shooting and two buzzer beaters. Give this man credit he deserves!

[JN61]

if scores zero and they win it likely means they were sending doubles and triples at him.

Isn’t it better basketball to do the right play and move along the ball so you’re teammates succeed via easy shots that are a result of 4 on 3s instead of hoisting up heavily contested shots?

Yes, but you also aren't the MVP with such play. It just means your team is elite.

[WarriorGM]

He was being sarcastic.

This whole gravity mythos is getting a bit out of hand - his gravity is no more noticeable than for the other mvp candidates.

His on/off is +16.5. That's excellent, but well behind Joker (23.6), Giannis (20.7) and KD/Lebron (18.2).

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

Curry can score zero, he'd still be the MVP.

Man I really hope that last line is a joke… but something tells me you’re being serious - this gravity stuff is really getting out of hand now.

Not nearly as out of hand as the skepticism of Curry's impact and the lengths people have gone to minimize his greatness.

[Dacost]

I think JA is knocking at the door right now trying to get in this MVP convo.

[_NoMas]

My sarcasm edit came in before I saw your post.

Curry's style of play has beneficial influence on his team that goes beyond on/off. The way Curry plays allows his teammates to become better rather than just standing around. That's why when you have the odd game where Curry's shooting is off his teammates are well-practiced enough at playing winning ball to execute.

Curry can score zero, he'd still be the MVP.

Man I really hope that last line is a joke… but something tells me you’re being serious - this gravity stuff is really getting out of hand now.

Not nearly as out of hand as the skepticism of Curry's impact and the lengths people have gone to minimize his greatness.

I’m new to this forum but very much getting a sense of the diehard fandom amongst Curry fans vs Lebron fans etc. Definitely not questioning his impact or greatness in any way, and fully appreciate the impact his shooting has in terms of drawing defenders and creating space. But it’s also fair to say he’s not playing at the levels he was last season or earlier this season. Shooting 3-17 and 1-10 from 3 for any other player is a horrible night… let’s not hide behind gravitational pull and a win as some sort of mark of his greatness… it was a bad night for him and his team mates bailed him out.

[WarriorGM]

Man I really hope that last line is a joke… but something tells me you’re being serious - this gravity stuff is really getting out of hand now.

Not nearly as out of hand as the skepticism of Curry's impact and the lengths people have gone to minimize his greatness.

I’m new to this forum but very much getting a sense of the diehard fandom amongst Curry fans vs Lebron fans etc. Definitely not questioning his impact or greatness in any way, and fully appreciate the impact his shooting has in terms of drawing defenders and creating space. But it’s also fair to say he’s not playing at the levels he was last season or earlier this season. Shooting 3-17 and 1-10 from 3 for any other player is a horrible night… let’s not hide behind gravitational pull and a win as some sort of mark of his greatness… it was a bad night for him and his team mates bailed him out.

Your sense of things is probably a little off. This place is LeBron country. The 140 page and counting thread on him on the neighboring forum in a season he has so far been a non-factor is an indication of that.

The Warriors fans around here are rather placid. I'm probably the exception and only because I'm put off by how even the Warriors fans around here underestimate Curry and so readily buy the claptrap spouted about him by the media.

Ordinarily characterizing the Warriors' last victory as a poor shooting night on Curry's part in which his teammates bailed him out might be one I have no problem with. But the backdrop of the last few games, the tone of this thread, and the results providence has provided gives the perfect platform to highlight the inanity of the arguments against Curry.

Curry only wins because of his teammates? The second, third, and fourth highest scorers on the Warriors were unavailable when Curry and the Warriors swooped in on the home court of the team with the second best record in the league and won.

Curry only wins because of the defense Draymond (an MVP level guy if the Jazz's coach is to be believed) is mainly responsible for? Curry and the Warriors take out the Jazz and their third best record and best offense in the league on their home court too despite not having Draymond.

Curry cannot win the MVP because of his inferior stats? Curry and the Warriors win despite Curry scoring single digits on a night all the other leading MVP contenders score more than 25 but lose. It's delicious how fate has conspired to make it look like one big troll job.

[_NoMas]

Not nearly as out of hand as the skepticism of Curry's impact and the lengths people have gone to minimize his greatness.

I’m new to this forum but very much getting a sense of the diehard fandom amongst Curry fans vs Lebron fans etc. Definitely not questioning his impact or greatness in any way, and fully appreciate the impact his shooting has in terms of drawing defenders and creating space. But it’s also fair to say he’s not playing at the levels he was last season or earlier this season. Shooting 3-17 and 1-10 from 3 for any other player is a horrible night… let’s not hide behind gravitational pull and a win as some sort of mark of his greatness… it was a bad night for him and his team mates bailed him out.

Your sense of things is probably a little off. This place is LeBron country. The 140 page and counting thread on him on the neighboring forum in a season he has so far been a non-factor is an indication of that.

The Warriors fans around here are rather placid. I'm probably the exception and only because I'm put off by how even the Warriors fans around here underestimate Curry and so readily buy the claptrap spouted about him by the media.

Ordinarily characterizing the Warriors' last victory as a poor shooting night on Curry's part in which his teammates bailed him out might be one I have no problem with. But the backdrop of the last few games, the tone of this thread, and the results providence has provided gives the perfect platform to highlight the inanity of the arguments against Curry.

Curry only wins because of his teammates? The second, third, and fourth highest scorers on the Warriors were unavailable when Curry and the Warriors swooped in on the home court of the team with the second best record in the league and won.

Curry only wins because of the defense Draymond (an MVP level guy if the Jazz's coach is to be believed) is mainly responsible for? Curry and the Warriors take out the Jazz and their third best record and best offense in the league on their home court too despite not having Draymond.

Curry cannot win the MVP because of his inferior stats? Curry and the Warriors win despite Curry scoring single digits on a night all the other leading MVP contenders score more than 25 but lose. It's delicious how fate has conspired to make it look like one big troll job.

Fair enough, I’m sure I’ll learn more about the specific fan bases in due course! For the record I think Giannis KD and Curry are almost neck and neck in whatever order (personally I have Giannis at 1), with KD and Steph not too far behind)… still plenty of time to go and it’s all up for grabs. I won’t comment on each of your specific points, mainly because anyone who questions Curry’s value is either a troll or clueless… but I do think you can be an objective poster and not think Curry is MVP front runner, which to some Curry fans comes across as sacrilege - it’s on a similar note to Lebron fans taking huge insult at people thinking he’s ONLY the second greatest player that ever lived…

[GSWFan1994]

Giannis last 5 games:

33/11/7 + 1 steal / 1 block
57/22/73

IMO he has the slight edge in the MVP race for now, Curry has somewhat cooled down in the past 4/5 weeks.

... but I still think Curry will win the MVP, due to voter's fatigue on Giannis' behalf and the "beautiful" narrative surrounding Curry.

[WarriorGM]

I’m new to this forum but very much getting a sense of the diehard fandom amongst Curry fans vs Lebron fans etc. Definitely not questioning his impact or greatness in any way, and fully appreciate the impact his shooting has in terms of drawing defenders and creating space. But it’s also fair to say he’s not playing at the levels he was last season or earlier this season. Shooting 3-17 and 1-10 from 3 for any other player is a horrible night… let’s not hide behind gravitational pull and a win as some sort of mark of his greatness… it was a bad night for him and his team mates bailed him out.

Your sense of things is probably a little off. This place is LeBron country. The 140 page and counting thread on him on the neighboring forum in a season he has so far been a non-factor is an indication of that.

The Warriors fans around here are rather placid. I'm probably the exception and only because I'm put off by how even the Warriors fans around here underestimate Curry and so readily buy the claptrap spouted about him by the media.

Ordinarily characterizing the Warriors' last victory as a poor shooting night on Curry's part in which his teammates bailed him out might be one I have no problem with. But the backdrop of the last few games, the tone of this thread, and the results providence has provided gives the perfect platform to highlight the inanity of the arguments against Curry.

Curry only wins because of his teammates? The second, third, and fourth highest scorers on the Warriors were unavailable when Curry and the Warriors swooped in on the home court of the team with the second best record in the league and won.

Curry only wins because of the defense Draymond (an MVP level guy if the Jazz's coach is to be believed) is mainly responsible for? Curry and the Warriors take out the Jazz and their third best record and best offense in the league on their home court too despite not having Draymond.

Curry cannot win the MVP because of his inferior stats? Curry and the Warriors win despite Curry scoring single digits on a night all the other leading MVP contenders score more than 25 but lose. It's delicious how fate has conspired to make it look like one big troll job.

Fair enough, I’m sure I’ll learn more about the specific fan bases in due course! For the record I think Giannis KD and Curry are almost neck and neck in whatever order (personally I have Giannis at 1), with KD and Steph not too far behind)… still plenty of time to go and it’s all up for grabs. I won’t comment on each of your specific points, mainly because anyone who questions Curry’s value is either a troll or clueless… but I do think you can be an objective poster and not think Curry is MVP front runner, which to some Curry fans comes across as sacrilege - it’s on a similar note to Lebron fans taking huge insult at people thinking he’s ONLY the second greatest player that ever lived…

It's sacrilege due to the history of excuses, moving goal posts and double standards used to deny Curry. Stats are what's important? Then how did Iguodala get the 2015 FMVP? Narrative is what is important? Then how did KD get the FMVP in 2018? Wins are what's important? Then how did Westbrook or anyone else get MVP in 2017? Stacked teams preclude a player from getting an MVP? Then why were LeBron or Davis mentioned in 2020 and why is KD a candidate this year? If Curry is denied yet again this year despite leading a team to the best record that two years ago was at the very bottom of the league I think the credibility of the MVP award is shot.