Options to fix the PF hole

[nanokooshball]

Any thoughts on Mike Muscala?

- 30 years old, coming off bench on OKC. 6'11 240 lbs, plays PF/C. Can shoot the 3 at 38%
- is 33rd in PER (in 14 mpg) at 20.4 PER
- seems decently mobile

I feel like he could be got with minimal assets without sacrificing anyone important.

Watch on YouTube

[1985Bear]

Back in the title days, when we were the best team, changes to the roster were targeted at playoff match ups. It’s agreed that we could upgrade the PF spot in overall talent and agree that Harrison Barnes would be a great addition and would upgrade that spot.

When I evaluate our roadblocks to the finals this year and next, it’s not just getting a few more 3s from the PF spot. The hurdles have 2 names: Giannis and KD. For me that is the focus, getting a guy who can do something, anything, to slow those 2 down. I big athletic long defender with a hard ass edge. Would Harrison Barnes do a better job slowing them down than Javonte or DDJ covering those 2?

What’s Rodman up to these days?!?


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[RedBulls23]

Here's an article Morten Stig Jensen wrote talking about 2 possible trade targets. He covers the Bulls now for Heavy.com

https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bulls/nba-trade-buzz-should-bulls-go-for-harrison-barnes-or-jerami-grant/

[FriedRise]

Can Giannis and KD win playoff series by themselves? They're obviously MVP caliber players, but you typically don't win games yet alone entire playoff series by yourself. You usually need at least 2 other guys to step up and contribute - you know, the unsung heroes.

So here's a thought - if the makeup of your roster tempts opponents to create strategies that put either Giannis or KD to do literally everything (because that's the obvious advantage), isn't that in a way desirable for us? If our roster depth can literally shut everyone else down, I'd argue that makes Brooklyn or Milwaukee rather easy to defend. You let Giannis and KD do all the scoring, but you contain everyone else.

I'm not saying to stand pat, but maybe the upgrades can be done elsewhere if all the available PF options are less than desirable. I'm also rather wary about trading away our depth for one player, who might be a clear upgrade in that one hole we're obsessively trying to fill but create even more holes everywhere else.

[mj234eva]

Back in the title days, when we were the best team, changes to the roster were targeted at playoff match ups. It’s agreed that we could upgrade the PF spot in overall talent and agree that Harrison Barnes would be a great addition and would upgrade that spot.

When I evaluate our roadblocks to the finals this year and next, it’s not just getting a few more 3s from the PF spot. The hurdles have 2 names: Giannis and KD. For me that is the focus, getting a guy who can do something, anything, to slow those 2 down. I big athletic long defender with a hard ass edge. Would Harrison Barnes do a better job slowing them down than Javonte or DDJ covering those 2?

A friendly reminder:

2021 playoffs
Giannis - 30/13/5
KD - 34/9/4

The difference in their successes or lack thereof were the "others".

Giannis' #2 (Middleton) averaged 24/8/5, and his #3 (Holiday) 17/6/9 throughout the playoffs.

KD's #2 and #3 missed 3 huge games in the the 2nd round (Harden effectively was "out" for that entire 2nd round despite playing in 4 games). Despite that, the Nets were probably a Joe Harris wide open 3 (or 2 3s) away from going to the Finals.

I guess the point of my reply is you're not really going to "slow" them down. Sure, Tucker played KD tough, but he still avg'd 42+ over those last 3 games (after Kyrie went out, and Harden was just a body out there).

You probably have to "concede" 30-35 ppg from Giannis/KD, but on volume (even if good efficiency), but you need to contain those others.

[meekrab]

The idea of trading anything significant for Barnes or Grant makes me want to throw up a little in my mouth. And based off a quick look at BBRef's Head2Head tool, Durant torches both of them.

[Bulls2021]

Back in the title days, when we were the best team, changes to the roster were targeted at playoff match ups. It’s agreed that we could upgrade the PF spot in overall talent and agree that Harrison Barnes would be a great addition and would upgrade that spot.

When I evaluate our roadblocks to the finals this year and next, it’s not just getting a few more 3s from the PF spot. The hurdles have 2 names: Giannis and KD. For me that is the focus, getting a guy who can do something, anything, to slow those 2 down. I big athletic long defender with a hard ass edge. Would Harrison Barnes do a better job slowing them down than Javonte or DDJ covering those 2?

A friendly reminder:

2021 playoffs
Giannis - 30/13/5
KD - 34/9/4

The difference in their successes or lack thereof were the "others".

Giannis' #2 (Middleton) averaged 24/8/5, and his #3 (Holiday) 17/6/9 throughout the playoffs.

KD's #2 and #3 missed 3 huge games in the the 2nd round (Harden effectively was "out" for that entire 2nd round despite playing in 4 games). Despite that, the Nets were probably a Joe Harris wide open 3 (or 2 3s) away from going to the Finals.

I guess the point of my reply is you're not really going to "slow" them down. Sure, Tucker played KD tough, but he still avg'd 42+ over those last 3 games (after Kyrie went out, and Harden was just a body out there).

You probably have to "concede" 30-35 ppg from Giannis/KD, but on volume (even if good efficiency), but you need to contain those others.

Nobody expects to slow them down much. Every little bit helps. If you have a competent defender that will limit the amount of double teams you throw their way, it is extremely helpful in limiting their supporting casts.

[mtron32]

Any thoughts on Mike Muscala?

- 30 years old, coming off bench on OKC. 6'11 240 lbs, plays PF/C. Can shoot the 3 at 38%
- is 33rd in PER (in 14 mpg) at 20.4 PER
- seems decently mobile

I feel like he could be got with minimal assets without sacrificing anyone important.

Watch on YouTube

Decent offense, big body and can help on the boards, I love him if he isn't too expensive. Serge Ibaka may still be useful as well.

[biggestbullsfan]

The better we play, the more inclined i feel to wait until the buyout market or if we can get a deal done minimally. I don’t really wanna blow up what we might heave right now. Especially if Coby continues to play so well off the bench.

[nomorezorro]

good news - our best trade chips have been important to few (coby) or none (pat) of the games we've won this year, so trading either one isn't "blowing up what we have right now"

[Bulls2021]

good news - our best trade chips have been important to few (coby) or none (pat) of the games we've won this year, so trading either one isn't "blowing up what we have right now"

I don't think we win any of the last 3 games without Coby, so he's been pretty significant and will be moving forward imo.

[nomorezorro]

i think 3 counts as a few!

[bad knees]

Any thoughts on Mike Muscala?

- 30 years old, coming off bench on OKC. 6'11 240 lbs, plays PF/C. Can shoot the 3 at 38%
- is 33rd in PER (in 14 mpg) at 20.4 PER
- seems decently mobile

I feel like he could be got with minimal assets without sacrificing anyone important.

Watch on YouTube

I like Muscala a lot; I also like Kenrich Williams, who is 6'6" and a glue SF/PF. Both are good defenders and 3 pt shooters; both contribute to winning (with impressive +/- numbers); both are inexpensive and have contracts that end next season (Muscala at $3.5 M; Williams at $2 M). I wouldn't mind getting both.

Here's an article that discusses how well both have been playing this year. https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/should-the-okc-thunder-trade-kenrich-williams

What would it take to extract these two from OKC? The POR frp is an obvious option. Another option: would I trade PWill for them? Man, I would have to think about it. I am so amped about this season, I am inclined to say yes. Especially if we got a frp pick coming back in return. These guys are very nice fits for us. Williams in particular is a good defender that we could throw at Giannis/Durant. Regardless of whether PWill is included, salary matching is easy and does not threaten the lux tax if we throw in one or two of our end of bench guys, plus use our TPE.

[nomorezorro]

as someone who considers himself fairly eager to put patrick williams on the table in trades: i am astonished to see someone say they'd be willing to trade him for mike muscala and kenrich williams.

(kenrich isn't a bad shout as a trade option though if we don't want to cash in our chips on a big-name pf)

[bad knees]

as someone who considers himself fairly eager to put patrick williams on the table in trades: i am astonished to see someone say they'd be willing to trade him for mike muscala and kenrich williams.

(kenrich isn't a bad shout as a trade option though if we don't want to cash in our chips on a big-name pf)

I astonished myself by writing it - that's why I included the idea of OKC sending some draft capital to us in the deal. Just exploring all the options here.

[GoBlue72391]

You have no evidence that would be the case.

You have no evidence to the contrary. At least I would be adding a player to the roster with a track record of being an actual NBA good player who fits a current roster weakness. Are you more confident that Coby will continue his production for the rest of the season and the playoffs? Are you even confident Pat will take the court this season? Even if he does, do you think Pat will be even close to Grant's production this year?

Um there is evidence (doesnt play defense, has a negative on off, doesnt shoot well, doesnt rebound). Unless in trades you are just looking at names you recognize and if you do then its a good deal.

You just exposed yourself with that "doesn't play defense" remark. Grant is a two-way player.

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[FreeBird23]

I would try to trade for a guy like Larry Nance Jr.

He can do everything, good teammate and his contract is reasonable.

[GoBlue72391]

I think it's obvious, but we can't go into the playoffs with a 6'4" SG and 6'5" SF as our primary options at PF. Javonte and DJJ are no doubt solid players who have made a notable impact this season, but when a potential championship is on the line you want them coming off the bench, not starting.

They're fine options in the regular season, but in the playoffs when games really matter and we're playing against good/great teams who will have ample time to game plan against us they'll be easily exploited and neutralized.

We have a hoard of guards, so naturally it makes sense to try and work a trade involving one of them to shore up our glaring weakness at PF. I like Coby and PWill, but not nearly enough to let them jeopardize our championship aspirations.

In my opinion we HAVE to make a trade for a starting caliber PF with size if we're serious about contending. As another poster said, this isn't the type of situation you leave up to chance and just hope everything works out. We're either all-in or we're not.

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[gf2020hotmail]

Whoever we get at the four/backup five has to be able to guard Giannis or there's not a lot of point in upgrading because otherwise the Caruso (when facing perimeter heavy teams) or DJJ (when facing Durant) as the fifth guy lineups are going to be the better, more frequently utilized groups anyway.

I wish the Grizzlies weren't so good and still in biding time mode because a podcast I listen to suggested Kyle Anderson and he'd be about perfect. There's just not a lot of the old man strength guys like PJ Tucker, James Johnson or even Blake Griffin who are on bad teams and we can't get Thad back under most circumstances.

Anybody else got any other ideas?

[JohnnyTapwater]

buyout market. I don't want to lose depth unless we can fleece a team.