Game 35: Pistons (6-28) @ Bucks (25-13) - Jan. 3 8:00 PM EST

[pistons4ever]

Undefeated!!!!!!!

[NYPiston]

I think trading Grant is the right move, because frankly, we don't really need his services on this team. Whatever he provides, we can get that in a combo of Cade, Diallo, and now Bey after going thru an ungodly shooting sophomore slump. If Pat Williams or insert young talent or draft pick can get you 80% of what Grant can do with room to grow but significantly cheaper, it makes sense on a level to just pull the trigger

Plus the added benefit that the offense looks more dynamic is a huge plus

Agreed.
The only reason they'd keep Grant is if they have designs on winning next season and have a long term plan for him to be a key cog on this team going forward. Other than that, financially speaking and developmentwise, I just don't see the argument for keeping him. Not to mention that his trade value will never be higher than it is right now.

I do think Grant has one thing over those other guys and that's length and the ability to get his shot over defenders but as long as he's on this team, he will be the go to option on offense and this just can't be Grant's team anymore. Not only does that stunt the growth of others because he needs the ball so much, it also stunts ball movement in general because.... he needs the ball so much. Apparently, James Edwards said recently that Weaver is taking calls on Grant daily or something to that effect. Time to strike while the iron is hot and create a bidding war for him and cash on his value while he can.

[Sort]

You know it depends on the return for Grant. I don't know how willing he will be to not be the man for the Pistons and I don't think he'll ever be an effective rebounder or pick n roll player - something we've seen so much more of recently. I like the idea for Grant and the Pistons to make a great trade, but the question remains what that would look like and if it makes any sense for the Pistons.

[Manocad]

A key thing about these last two games that has been touched on but not really fleshed out...I am admittedly NOT a fan of Trey Lyles. I think Garza should get the bulk of the minutes slated for Lyles. However Lyles has recently played at a level of serviceable to even good at times. What's the common denominator? No Cory Joseph, meaning once Lyles is in an offense that kinda moves the way an NBA offense traditionally would, i.e. his role becomes just doing what he'd expect to do rather than trying to figure out what he should be doing in a hodgepodge offense, he does ok.

So if I'm Weaver, looking at what is happening when this team is playing best, three things absolutely stick out:

1. They need pure point guard play out of someone, and that someone shouldn't be Cade full time because he's too good a scorer to always be looking to help others score. Hopefully that can be Killian because he has size, defense and passing ability. But given who can score on this team even with Grant out, the PG needs to be a keen facilitator AT LEAST half the time.
2. Size in the middle. Garza obviously isn't an all-world defender or rebounder due to his lateral movement and flat-footedness. But sticking him in the paint made an OBVIOUS difference.
3. Grant needs to be traded. I get the point of picking him up because the team didn't know they were going to wind up with Cade. Trade Grant for either a young big or a pick, but thank him for his service and get him off to a contender who needs him to be the man more often than not when he has the ball in his hands. And don't forget--potentially turning Grant into a tradeable asset was something Weaver stated right from the get-go.

[zeebneeb]

A key thing about these last two games that has been touched on but not really fleshed out...I am admittedly NOT a fan of Trey Lyles. I think Garza should get the bulk of the minutes slated for Lyles. However Lyles has recently played at a level of serviceable to even good at times. What's the common denominator? No Cory Joseph, meaning once Lyles is in an offense that kinda moves the way an NBA offense traditionally would, i.e. his role becomes just doing what he'd expect to do rather than trying to figure out what he should be doing in a hodgepodge offense, he does ok.

So if I'm Weaver, looking at what is happening when this team is playing best, three things absolutely stick out:

1. They need pure point guard play out of someone, and that someone shouldn't be Cade full time because he's too good a scorer to always be looking to help others score. Hopefully that can be Killian because he has size, defense and passing ability. But given who can score on this team even with Grant out, the PG needs to be a keen facilitator AT LEAST half the time.
2. Size in the middle. Garza obviously isn't an all-world defender or rebounder due to his lateral movement and flat-footedness. But sticking him in the paint made an OBVIOUS difference.
3. Grant needs to be traded. I get the point of picking him up because the team didn't know they were going to wind up with Cade. Trade Grant for either a young big or a pick, but thank him for his service and get him off to a contender who needs him to be the man more often than not when he has the ball in his hands. And don't forget--potentially turning Grant into a tradeable asset was something Weaver stated right from the get-go.

I want to touch on the things you've mentioned.

Lyles-People often say "so and so is a system player". That is Lyles. He has to have a system, a working offense for him to work. Without Joseph, he has flourished. It surprised the hell out of me. I'm not saying I love him, but, in specific instances, off the bench he could absolutely work, which brings me to..

Garza-With him in the middle, the rebounding problem has utterly disappeared. It's not that he is getting a ton of rebounds, its that he knows how to properly box out, allowing the wings, and gaurds to grab them. This is a HUGE deal. Garza also sets impressive screens, and has a knack of bringing the man he's screening, with him without getting called for a moving screen. Some of his screens turn into him dragging 2 guys with him, and a massive hole forming in the middle for the ball handler to work with. He is insanley wide. He also has impressive hands grabbing a pass coming to him in very tight situations. Should be starting, Instead of Stewart. I love Stew, but he can't set a screen to save his life, often just slipping to the basket, and just doesn't know, or is ineffective at boxing out. The difference between him and Garza is absolutely massive.

Grant-I'm lucky on this one as I said very early(perhaps too early)that he doesn't fit with Cade. He just doesn't. It has now become obvious he doesn't, thus making me look like a genius. Grant's trade value is well beyond his actual worth right now, as he fills a position of need for multiple would-be-contenders, most notably the Chicago Bulls. If he can be flipped for a legitimate prospect(Williams)ill be happier then a pig in proverbial ****.

[DBC10]

I think trading Grant is the right move, because frankly, we don't really need his services on this team. Whatever he provides, we can get that in a combo of Cade, Diallo, and now Bey after going thru an ungodly shooting sophomore slump. If Pat Williams or insert young talent or draft pick can get you 80% of what Grant can do with room to grow but significantly cheaper, it makes sense on a level to just pull the trigger

Plus the added benefit that the offense looks more dynamic is a huge plus

Agreed.
The only reason they'd keep Grant is if they have designs on winning next season and have a long term plan for him to be a key cog on this team going forward. Other than that, financially speaking and developmentwise, I just don't see the argument for keeping him. Not to mention that his trade value will never be higher than it is right now.

I do think Grant has one thing over those other guys and that's length and the ability to get his shot over defenders but as long as he's on this team, he will be the go to option on offense and this just can't be Grant's team anymore. Not only does that stunt the growth of others because he needs the ball so much, it also stunts ball movement in general because.... he needs the ball so much. Apparently, James Edwards said recently that Weaver is taking calls on Grant daily or something to that effect. Time to strike while the iron is hot and create a bidding war for him and cash on his value while he can.

Yeah, and another thing, I'm not sure if Grant is some sort of inhibitor or really does stunt the growth of our young guys since I'm of the opinion that truly elite guys grow despite inhibiting forces. But at the same time certainly an argument can be made that he's no catalyst to their growth either. Not with his sky high usage rates (26.6% fwiw). The answer is probably likely in the middle, but at this point, I've personally seen enough to say that we can safely move on from him and ride out Cade, Diallo, and Bey at the perimeter scoring spots and maintain a competitive tank

[DetroitSho]

A key thing about these last two games that has been touched on but not really fleshed out...I am admittedly NOT a fan of Trey Lyles. I think Garza should get the bulk of the minutes slated for Lyles. However Lyles has recently played at a level of serviceable to even good at times. What's the common denominator? No Cory Joseph, meaning once Lyles is in an offense that kinda moves the way an NBA offense traditionally would, i.e. his role becomes just doing what he'd expect to do rather than trying to figure out what he should be doing in a hodgepodge offense, he does ok.

So if I'm Weaver, looking at what is happening when this team is playing best, three things absolutely stick out:

1. They need pure point guard play out of someone, and that someone shouldn't be Cade full time because he's too good a scorer to always be looking to help others score. Hopefully that can be Killian because he has size, defense and passing ability. But given who can score on this team even with Grant out, the PG needs to be a keen facilitator AT LEAST half the time.
2. Size in the middle. Garza obviously isn't an all-world defender or rebounder due to his lateral movement and flat-footedness. But sticking him in the paint made an OBVIOUS difference.
3. Grant needs to be traded. I get the point of picking him up because the team didn't know they were going to wind up with Cade. Trade Grant for either a young big or a pick, but thank him for his service and get him off to a contender who needs him to be the man more often than not when he has the ball in his hands. And don't forget--potentially turning Grant into a tradeable asset was something Weaver stated right from the get-go.

Yeah I've never been in lockstep with you on Lyles because I felt he, like most others on this team, was doing too much out necessity. I didn't see it as a Josh Smiff situation where he was just doing too much because he doesn't give af. This dude is asked to be a paint protector and rebounder when that's just not what he is. But put him out there with another big that can rebound, then he's really good on the pick and pop when he's fed open shots.

I've been secretly hoping for weeks that contenders see him is a diet Portis and become interested in him for a decent 2nd.

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[Laimbeer]

Time to rev up the fire Casey talk for blowing the tank. What was he thinking?

Seriously, watching this young team go after it for 48 minutes was a pleasure. We got to glimpse what is possible with aggressive D and more ball movement.

Kelser's postgame praise of Bey at the PF position was telling. Although I appreciate what Grant has brought to the team I think a trade might be in everybody's best interest, while his market is hot. He can be a big contributor to a contender while he's more of a ball stopper here.

We're no longer in last place in the league... that distinction now belongs to the Orlando Magic. Luckily the next spot is Houston and they have 3 more wins than us still and then its another 3 win jump to get to 4th worst in the league so we're pretty stuck in the bottom 3 for a while at least even if we start winning more often.

Team, we gotta stay focused on those L's. It's too early to get confident in our draft position. If this team gels a bit we will climb pretty fast. Season not even half over.