Should Fred Van Vleet be an all-star?

[JujitsuFlip]

So I guess no Celtics either then, since they are under .500? No Trae or Towns either? I mean, if under .500 teams shouldn't have any all-stars because they are WAY too bad.

Like it or not, FVV doesn't have the popularity with fans or media that Trae does.

There are at max 6 guard spots in the East. Two selected by fans + media + players, which it is almost for sure FVV isn't nabbing either of those.

That leaves 4 spots maximum for guards, more than likely only 3 spots though... Not counting injury/covid alternates.

-LaVine and DeRozan are listed as guards on the #1 seed.
-Harden having a down year but guard on the #2 seed.
-Jrue is a guard on the #3 seed.
-potentially James Butler on the #4 seed.
-Garland on the #5 seed.
-Beal with a down year on the #7 seed.
-LaMelo on the #8 seed.

Yeah, like I said, FVV not getting in... East is too guard heavy lol

He's been better than Ball, Beal, and Garland.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Him and Garland are having almost identical seasons... Garland is just on the better team lol

Real quick glance, Ball probably better or on par with FVV.

Beal can get in on reputation alone, just the reality.

[Jeremy Lin 7]

HELL NO! This is a cute story, but the All Star game is for actual stars who lead their teams to wins.

lol theres some Raptors fans who wouldn't trade FVV for Simmons. As many issues as Simmons has, hes a better player than FVV.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Give me FVV anyday over Simmons

[DaPessimist]

One of the most underrated player in the league.

He's so underrated, that I know he's underrated, and continue to underrate him.

That said, I think he's a fringe All-Star talent, which typically means you also need team success to be recognized.

[Duffman100]

Fred simply isn't the guy who strikes me as All Star material. Stop trying to get guys into the big boy game who aren't stars. Whose spot is he taking? Tatum, Brown, Beal? C'mon man those guys are actual big name stars.

Fred is at 21,7 and 5 slashing good numbers while playing elite level D at the PG spot.

He’s closer to that level than you believe.

[basketballRob]

Like it or not, FVV doesn't have the popularity with fans or media that Trae does.

There are at max 6 guard spots in the East. Two selected by fans + media + players, which it is almost for sure FVV isn't nabbing either of those.

That leaves 4 spots maximum for guards, more than likely only 3 spots though... Not counting injury/covid alternates.

-LaVine and DeRozan are listed as guards on the #1 seed.
-Harden having a down year but guard on the #2 seed.
-Jrue is a guard on the #3 seed.
-potentially James Butler on the #4 seed.
-Garland on the #5 seed.
-Beal with a down year on the #7 seed.
-LaMelo on the #8 seed.

Yeah, like I said, FVV not getting in... East is too guard heavy lol

He's been better than Ball, Beal, and Garland.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Him and Garland are having almost identical seasons... Garland is just on the better team lol

Real quick glance, Ball probably better or on par with FVV.

Beal can get in on reputation alone, just the reality.

FVV is a better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Zeno]

Here are the east's best by PER, 30mpg:
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo, MIL
2 Joel Embiid, PHI
3 Jimmy Butler, MIA
4 Trae Young, ATL
5 Kevin Durant, BKN
6 Jarrett Allen, CLE
7 DeMar DeRozan, CHI
8 Domantas Sabonis, IND
9 Zach LaVine, CHI
10 Clint Capela, ATL
11 Daniel Gafford, WSH
12 James Harden, BKN
13 John Collins, ATL
14 LaMelo Ball, CHA
15 Jrue Holiday, MIL
16 Bam Adebayo, MIA
17 Fred VanVleet, TOR

I know PER isn't the end all be all stat but there are a lot of very productive players on playoff level teams. FVV would have to jump over several in order to get on the roster.

Even if I thought PER was a good measure to use, you got a few obvious guys to exclude on this list like Gafford and Capela. Then you got Bam who hasn’t been playing and Sabonis who’s teams record is really in the toilet. So there is four guys right there that Fred is ahead of. So it comes down to Fred vs. Ball and John Collins and think based on defense and other metrics Fred gets in over those guys.

[basketballRob]

Here are the east's best by PER, 30mpg:
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo, MIL
2 Joel Embiid, PHI
3 Jimmy Butler, MIA
4 Trae Young, ATL
5 Kevin Durant, BKN
6 Jarrett Allen, CLE
7 DeMar DeRozan, CHI
8 Domantas Sabonis, IND
9 Zach LaVine, CHI
10 Clint Capela, ATL
11 Daniel Gafford, WSH
12 James Harden, BKN
13 John Collins, ATL
14 LaMelo Ball, CHA
15 Jrue Holiday, MIL
16 Bam Adebayo, MIA
17 Fred VanVleet, TOR

I know PER isn't the end all be all stat but there are a lot of very productive players on playoff level teams. FVV would have to jump over several in order to get on the roster.

Vanvleet is near the top in about every other advanced stat.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[JujitsuFlip]

He's been better than Ball, Beal, and Garland.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Him and Garland are having almost identical seasons... Garland is just on the better team lol

Real quick glance, Ball probably better or on par with FVV.

Beal can get in on reputation alone, just the reality.

FVV is a better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Who cares, it's the ASG, there is absolutely zero defense played.

[gp2015]

Him and Garland are having almost identical seasons... Garland is just on the better team lol

Real quick glance, Ball probably better or on par with FVV.

Beal can get in on reputation alone, just the reality.

FVV is a better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Who cares, it's the ASG, there is absolutely zero defense played.

Perhaps we should just pick the best dunkers then and call it a day?

[HoopsterJones]

He should get some consideration. But there’s some stiff competition at guard in the East for an All Star spot. In no order:

Bradley Beal
LaMelo Ball
Jaylen Brown
Demar Derozan (listed at G for voting)
James Harden
Jrue Holiday
Zach Lavine
Trae Young

I think he’s right there for the last spot. If he can keep up the production and the Raptors move up in the standings a bit, he’ll have a good chance to make it.

Edit: I forgot Darius Garland. There will definitely be some snubs.

[everdiso]

Fred league ranks, before tonight:

Raptor #5
EPM #9
TPA #15
DPM #26
Lebron #30


The question isn't whether he should make the all-star team, but which All-NBA team he should make.

[coldfish]

Here are the east's best by PER, 30mpg:
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo, MIL
2 Joel Embiid, PHI
3 Jimmy Butler, MIA
4 Trae Young, ATL
5 Kevin Durant, BKN
6 Jarrett Allen, CLE
7 DeMar DeRozan, CHI
8 Domantas Sabonis, IND
9 Zach LaVine, CHI
10 Clint Capela, ATL
11 Daniel Gafford, WSH
12 James Harden, BKN
13 John Collins, ATL
14 LaMelo Ball, CHA
15 Jrue Holiday, MIL
16 Bam Adebayo, MIA
17 Fred VanVleet, TOR

I know PER isn't the end all be all stat but there are a lot of very productive players on playoff level teams. FVV would have to jump over several in order to get on the roster.

Vanvleet is near the top in about every other advanced stat.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

I think we know that its only places like here that those advanced stats are given much credence. Its still points, rebounds, assists for most of the world.

Even if I thought PER was a good measure to use, you got a few obvious guys to exclude on this list like Gafford and Capela. Then you got Bam who hasn’t been playing and Sabonis who’s teams record is really in the toilet. So there is four guys right there that Fred is ahead of. So it comes down to Fred vs. Ball and John Collins and think based on defense and other metrics Fred gets in over those guys.

IMO, Ball is Charlotte. I think he gets in over FVV. Washington also has no all star. Despite having a lower PER, I could see Beal jumping FVV but I don't even think it gets that far. Its just too many guards. Butler, Young, Lavine, Harden, Ball, Holiday

[Dino-Might]

Him and Garland are having almost identical seasons... Garland is just on the better team lol

Real quick glance, Ball probably better or on par with FVV.

Beal can get in on reputation alone, just the reality.

FVV is a better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Who cares, it's the ASG, there is absolutely zero defense played.

The point is that all-star selection, particularly after the start sections (which incorporate fan voting) is about the best players in the league, NOT which players you think are entertaining, think are "stars" (whatever that means) or will sell tickets/get ratings.

Of course defense matters in deciding the best players. So do impact and advance stats, which all show that FVV has been better than guys like Ball, Garland, Beal, Tatum, etc. this season.

[MGB8]

NO. He's on the fringe, Raptors are a lottery team.

Taps will be in the playoffs through the 2nd round if healthy. But FVV is not quite an all star, it’s just a very balanced, talented team.

[Duffman100]

NO. He's on the fringe, Raptors are a lottery team.

Taps will be in the playoffs through the 2nd round if healthy. But FVV is not quite an all star, it’s just a very balanced, talented team.

We really aren't though. Our front 5 are great (Fred, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam) but it's a massive drop off after that. Our bench is horrendous.

[brutalitops]

I think so.

[MGB8]

NO. He's on the fringe, Raptors are a lottery team.

Taps will be in the playoffs through the 2nd round if healthy. But FVV is not quite an all star, it’s just a very balanced, talented team.

We really aren't though. Our front 5 are great (Fred, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam) but it's a massive drop off after that. Our bench is horrendous.

Boucher isn’t horrendous, nor Precious. Neither is Birch. So 4-5 depth is top notch, and since Barnes can slide to the 3 and playoff rotations are tight, it’s the 1-2 that is the depth problem. Raps would be better off with Svi and Flynn being third stringers rather than 2nd…l. If there was only an experienced combo guard out there, with serious playoff experiences, capable of playing the 1 or 2, can shoot and create - can sacrifice some D because of backstop.

I read about this guy who played in Miami for a few years recently, then got traded… where in the world did he end up?

[Duffman100]

Taps will be in the playoffs through the 2nd round if healthy. But FVV is not quite an all star, it’s just a very balanced, talented team.

We really aren't though. Our front 5 are great (Fred, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam) but it's a massive drop off after that. Our bench is horrendous.

Boucher isn’t horrendous, nor Precious. Neither is Birch. So 4-5 depth is top notch, and since Barnes can slide to the 3 and playoff rotations are tight, it’s the 1-2 that is the depth problem. Raps would be better off with as I and Flynn being third stringers rather than 2nd…l. If there was only an experienced combo guard out there, with serious playoff experiences, capable of playing the 1 or 2, can shoot and create - can sacrifice some D because of backstop.

I read about this guy who played in Miami for a few years recently, then got traded… where in the world did he end up?

Boucher has been pretty bad this season. Incredibly inconsistent.
Precious ( love the potential ) but is an overall negative on offense.
Birch has been injured a bunch.

Yuta is our best bench player, that's... a problem. The rest is Banton, Flynn, Svi, Champagne.

You'd would be hard pressed to find a worse bench in the league.

[JujitsuFlip]

FVV is a better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Who cares, it's the ASG, there is absolutely zero defense played.

The point is that all-star selection, particularly after the start sections (which incorporate fan voting) is about the best players in the league, NOT which players you think are entertaining, think are "stars" (whatever that means) or will sell tickets/get ratings.

Of course defense matters in deciding the best players. So do impact and advance stats, which all show that FVV has been better than guys like Ball, Garland, Beal, Tatum, etc. this season.

If you believe Eastern head coaches between travel, watching film, games, practice, sleep, covid testing, w.e other daily tasks they have are sitting down breaking down advanced stats for a pool of ~10 guards to widdle it down to 3 or 4 to scribble on a note card, then I tip my hat to you.

[lobosloboslobos]

Interesting that there's now a thread on the GB debating whether Ja Morant is the best PG in the league this year while in this thread lots of folks insist Freddy isn't an all-star. And yet their numbers are almost identical except for Ja having 4 more ppg.

ppg: Ja 25, FVV 21 (Ja 19 FGA, FVV 16.6 FGA)
rbd: Ja 5.7, FVV 5
ast: Ja, 6.7, FVV 6.7
stl: Ja 1.4, FVV 1.6
blk: Ja 0.3, FVV, 0.6
3pt%: Ja .40, FVV .40
2pt%: Ja .518, FVV .481
FT%: Ja .766, FVV .878
eFG%: Ja .538, FVV .544
TOV: Ja 3.2, FVV 2.9

On top of that Ja's Usage is 32% whereas FVV's is 24%, so Ja uses up 30% more possessions to get those numbers than Freddy.

Now I don't think Ja is the best PG in the league but he has been damn good, yet still hasn't been better than Freddy. Just saying.