Should Fred Van Vleet be an all-star?

[ForeverTFC]

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

If it comes down to Garland and the Cavs are fighting for home court advantage versus FVV and the Raps are fighting for a back half play-in spot... There is zero doubt in my mind Garland is the clear cut choice, especially since the game is in Cleveland.

If that's how you decide, then Kyle Lowry probably has a better claim to the spot than Garland. Miami has a better record, has had way more injuries to deal with to their star players Butler and Bam, and Lowry is the constant on that team through all of this.

Look, I'm not saying Garland doesn't deserve it. He's been great this year. But from an individual standpoint, there is no way you can say he's been better than FVV. My pushback was to your initial point that there are way more players deserving of the spot and implying he shouldn't be in the conversation. Given our back and forth, I think you'd cede that it's a lot closer than your initial take implied, no?

[everdiso]

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

If it comes down to Garland and the Cavs are fighting for home court advantage versus FVV and the Raps are fighting for a back half play-in spot... There is zero doubt in my mind Garland is the clear cut choice, especially since the game is in Cleveland.

The Raps are 2 games back of the Cavs.

[Jadoogar]

based on some of the posting on the first page you would think that the Raptors were not a .500 team and nearing on the 7th seed

Yes he is playing at an All Star level

East All Stars look something like

KD
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
LaVine

Starting 5

Backups

Allen
Jimmy
LaMelo
Tatum
Freddy
Trae
DeRozan

Maybe Beal knocks Freddy out, if Beal keeps up his level of play and Wiz are still up on Raps but Fred has been better than Beal this year

Garland over FVV all day long in that scenario.

I highly doubt Cavs get 2 allstars and Allen seems far more likely
Also how is Garland "all day long" better than FVV?

FVV - 21/5/7 on 44/40/88
Garland - 20/3/7 on 47/38/91

Seems very close in raw stats and FVV has extremely strong advanced numbers.

[pingpongrac]

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

If it comes down to Garland and the Cavs are fighting for home court advantage versus FVV and the Raps are fighting for a back half play-in spot... There is zero doubt in my mind Garland is the clear cut choice, especially since the game is in Cleveland.

The Raps are 2 games back of the Cavs.

Yep. The Cavs have lost 4 of 5 and they're about to start a 6-game road trip while Toronto has won 3 in a row with a game against the Giannis-less Bucks tonight then Utah (who might be down some players due to H&S protocols) before the Pelicans, Suns and Pistons. If Toronto can steal one of the three games against good teams, they'll probably pass Cleveland by next weekend.

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[Big J]

I easily wouldnt do it, lol. Im not entirely sure Simmons is clearly a better player; a better talent, sure, but current on court impact? Not entirely clear. If he is better, he's not better enough to overcome the character gap. FVV is the leader of the Raps and one of the culture setters while Simmons is ruining Philly's season. It's a no brainer no for the Raps

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Simmons is a former number 1 draft pick and Rookie of the Year. He's dated celebs, and is repped by Klutch. He's a star, Fred's not.

[bisme37]

We haven't had a massive, heated Raps thread in a while. The board feels more like home today haha.

[canada_dry]

The great Zach Lowe>>>Casuals

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[nate33]

Who do you have ahead of him in backcourt players?

4 guards get in and then there’s 2 WC spots

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

Beal is playing much better of late. If Beal picks up his averages a bit more and the Wizards are, say, 3 games ahead of Toronto, voters might lean toward Beal over Van Vleet.

I'm not convinced that Tatum is in. He's more likely in than not, but I'd say it's a 70% chance, not 100%.

[ForeverTFC]

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

Beal is playing much better of late. If Beal picks up his averages a bit more and the Wizards are, say, 3 games ahead of Toronto, voters might lean toward Beal over Van Vleet.

I'm not convinced that Tatum is in. He's more likely in than not, but I'd say it's a 70% chance, not 100%.

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

[Duffman100]

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Simmons is a former number 1 draft pick and Rookie of the Year. He's dated celebs, and is repped by Klutch. He's a star, Fred's not.

Oh ****, he's dated celebs? He's repped by Klutch?

Well by all means, that should definitely mean he'll contribute more to winning...

[Duffman100]

We haven't had a massive, heated Raps thread in a while. The board feels more like home today haha.

What happens when people can't have a reasonable position of 'He'll be consideration'. Rather, "it's not even close".

Seems a regular stance when it comes to Raptor players.

[JujitsuFlip]

based on some of the posting on the first page you would think that the Raptors were not a .500 team and nearing on the 7th seed

Yes he is playing at an All Star level

East All Stars look something like

KD
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
LaVine

Starting 5

Backups

Allen
Jimmy
LaMelo
Tatum
Freddy
Trae
DeRozan

Maybe Beal knocks Freddy out, if Beal keeps up his level of play and Wiz are still up on Raps but Fred has been better than Beal this year

Garland over FVV all day long in that scenario.

I highly doubt Cavs get 2 allstars and Allen seems far more likely
Also how is Garland "all day long" better than FVV?

FVV - 21/5/7 on 44/40/88
Garland - 20/3/7 on 47/38/91

Seems very close in raw stats and FVV has extremely strong advanced numbers.

Record my man, record.

[JujitsuFlip]

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

If it comes down to Garland and the Cavs are fighting for home court advantage versus FVV and the Raps are fighting for a back half play-in spot... There is zero doubt in my mind Garland is the clear cut choice, especially since the game is in Cleveland.

The Raps are 2 games back of the Cavs.

For now, why I said let's see where both teams sit by the time coaches have to pick reserves, it will most likely matter.

[nate33]

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

Why should Boston categorically have an All-Star? They currently have a sub-.500 record and are ranked 10th in the conference, a half-game ahead of New York at 11th. If Toronto and Washington are ranked 7th and 8th with a 26-24 record when the selections are made, while Boston is sitting at 11th place with a 23-27 record, why should Tatum make it over Beal and Van Vleet?

Statistically, Van Vleet looks better than Tatum, and Beal is about the same.

[Jadoogar]

Garland over FVV all day long in that scenario.

I highly doubt Cavs get 2 allstars and Allen seems far more likely
Also how is Garland "all day long" better than FVV?

FVV - 21/5/7 on 44/40/88
Garland - 20/3/7 on 47/38/91

Seems very close in raw stats and FVV has extremely strong advanced numbers.

Record my man, record.

Has a 21-17 team ever gotten 2 allstars? They are only 2 games better than the Raptors right now.

[First Step]

If you go by record it should be Jrue Holiday. He’s low key been balling. Silver has turned the league into a theatrical experience, so whoever draws the most attention are included over deserving players.

[Duffman100]

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

Why should Boston categorically have an All-Star? They currently have a sub-.500 record and are ranked 10th in the conference, a half-game ahead of New York at 11th. If Toronto and Washington are ranked 7th and 8th with a 26-24 record when the selections are made, while Boston is sitting at 11th place with a 23-27 record, why should Tatum make it over Beal and Van Vleet?

Statistically, Van Vleet looks better than Tatum, and Beal is about the same.

This. I really like Tatum (have him in my dynasty league) and love Brown. Wish either were a Raptor.

But is Boston guaranteed an all star? I can't see why.

[everdiso]

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

Why should Boston categorically have an All-Star? They currently have a sub-.500 record and are ranked 10th in the conference, a half-game ahead of New York at 11th. If Toronto and Washington are ranked 7th and 8th with a 26-24 record when the selections are made, while Boston is sitting at 11th place with a 23-27 record, why should Tatum make it over Beal and Van Vleet?

Statistically, Van Vleet looks better than Tatum, and Beal is about the same.

Celtics must have all stars.

Even when they're a .500 team like last year, they deserve TWO all stars.

Also, their bench players get named to nba All-D teams, too.

Boston magic!

[everdiso]

I highly doubt Cavs get 2 allstars and Allen seems far more likely
Also how is Garland "all day long" better than FVV?

FVV - 21/5/7 on 44/40/88
Garland - 20/3/7 on 47/38/91

Seems very close in raw stats and FVV has extremely strong advanced numbers.

Record my man, record.

Has a 21-17 team ever gotten 2 allstars? They are only 2 games better than the Raptors right now.

Boston got 2 all stars last year and they were at .500

[lobosloboslobos]

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Simmons is a former number 1 draft pick and Rookie of the Year. He's dated celebs, and is repped by Klutch. He's a star, Fred's not.

Simmons also won an NBA title with his stellar clutch play, shooting 40% from 3 in the finals while holding Steph to 34% from deep with his pesky defense. Oh wait...