Tank World Order (7.0)

[KL78192020]

I definitely think "add another lottery prospect with star potential to the team" would be the best for our future. I also think it's quite obvious we're not getting a high lottery pick without an unexpected collapse and/or even better lottery luck than last year. We appear to have survived our Covid outbreak this year and we're not in Tampa.

Hopefully Masai, Bobby, Dan and co. can work their magic with whatever pick we end up with. It's harder to find stars in the teens but it's possible.

If it comes down to making the playoffs vs. a late lottery pick, I don't think it's worth a tank just to get 11th or 12 (pre-lottery) compared to having pick 15 or 16. We were 7th last year, which is a significant difference in the odds to move up. I think a tank has to get you to the top 7-8 odds at a minimum. Preferably higher.

Yea pretty much. With so many injuries to all the other teams, the Raptors will easily finish 7-9. Opposing team will start resting their guys towards the end of the year to helping the Raptors as well.

So ur abandoning the tank just like i predicted would happen?

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I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

[canada_dry]

Giannis out! Another fake win coming up! Rack them up Danny G!

Definitely starting to balance out now after so many fake losses to begin the year. I have our record adjusted for fake wins and losses at 20-14 but can easily be 21-13.

But teams should be able to win without their best players which is what tWo said when we were losing without ours. Bucks have no excuse tonight. Must win for them at home. Defending champs.

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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[canada_dry]

Yea pretty much. With so many injuries to all the other teams, the Raptors will easily finish 7-9. Opposing team will start resting their guys towards the end of the year to helping the Raptors as well.

So ur abandoning the tank just like i predicted would happen?

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I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

So why wish for something pie in the sky like tanking when u guys know he doesn't tank? Its a change of tone tbh because all i heard in the offseason and when the season started was masai is rebuilding and taking his quotes out of context by most of TWO, no serious team has precious and birch as their 5's etc Now its "obviously masai isnt tanking." Lol.

The time is coming soon. RIP TWO.

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[DelAbbot]

New mock draft by Jonathan Wasserman. Looks most accurate to date.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions

need a top 10 pick. all good players gone by 13 or 14

But many believes the diff not worth playoffs

[Mikistan]

Im team current team record. If we go positive tonight tank world order can burn in Tampa Bay for all I care

[Mikistan]

New mock draft by Jonathan Wasserman. Looks most accurate to date.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions

need a top 10 pick. all good players gone by 13 or 14

But many believes the diff not worth playoffs

All we need to do is pick the injured college player who other teams let drop. Still can't believe OG dropped to us, nba GMs are so silly chasing short term success rather than long term

[Los_29]

Definitely starting to balance out now after so many fake losses to begin the year. I have our record adjusted for fake wins and losses at 20-14 but can easily be 21-13.

But teams should be able to win without their best players which is what tWo said when we were losing without ours. Bucks have no excuse tonight. Must win for them at home. Defending champs.

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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He also said that Scottie will be the best player in a year or two so if that’s the case then we’ve essentially found our superstar. FVV is or at least should be an all-star, Pascal is putting up 20/9/4.5 and we know OG can give you 18ppg with excellent defense. If we have a player that is better than these players than our team is going to compete for a championship.

[DelAbbot]

need a top 10 pick. all good players gone by 13 or 14

But many believes the diff not worth playoffs

All we need to do is pick the injured college player who other teams let drop. Still can't believe OG dropped to us, nba GMs are so silly chasing short term success rather than long term

Sure. Is there an OG /MPJ type drop this year?

[Madhouse]

But many believes the diff not worth playoffs

All we need to do is pick the injured college player who other teams let drop. Still can't believe OG dropped to us, nba GMs are so silly chasing short term success rather than long term

Sure. Is there an OG /MPJ type drop this year?

well AJ Griffin was injured and is now just playing again

[alpngso]

New mock draft by Jonathan Wasserman. Looks most accurate to date.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2951965-2022-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pick-and-full-2-round-predictions

wouldn’t touch Hardy with 10 ft pole

[Madhouse]

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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He also said that Scottie will be the best player in a year or two so if that’s the case then we’ve essentially found our superstar. FVV is or at least should be an all-star, Pascal is putting up 20/9/4.5 and we know OG can give you 18ppg with excellent defense. If we have a player that is better than these players than our team is going to compete for a championship.

Just being better isn't enough. We would need Barnes to be as good as Giannis/Kawhi if we intend to win with this roster and not with a superteam. Lowry/Siakam were good players as were Holiday and Middleton but they wouldn't have won with just a better player than them. They won because of a top 5 player who looked like the best player in the world during those playoffs.

You could argue the Raptors will have 4 fringe Allstars if everyone develops correctly in 3 years in FVV/OG/Trent/Siakam and a star in Barnes who is a top 15 player and it might be enough but that's not certain and also more of a longshot that someone like OG or Trent improves to that level.

If you guaranteed me Barnes will be 1st team All NBA I wouldn't care about tanking or the lottery but that's still a longshot to be that good. So most realistic is he is a level below that, we need a 2nd star to overcome that and a good supporting cast behind that with FVV and Siakam as 3rd and 4th options. Otherwise we will just become a new version of the Paul George Pacers or Gasol/Randolph Grizzlies who lack the top end talent to win it all.

[KL78192020]

Definitely starting to balance out now after so many fake losses to begin the year. I have our record adjusted for fake wins and losses at 20-14 but can easily be 21-13.

But teams should be able to win without their best players which is what tWo said when we were losing without ours. Bucks have no excuse tonight. Must win for them at home. Defending champs.

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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I think thats where we disagree. Every team has had a superstar talent that won a championship, unless Barnes turns into that I doubt this current roster can win it all. Who is the last champion to win without a superstar? Detroit in 2004?

Plus what are you giving up to get Booker? I think the price would be high, pretty sure they would be demanding Barnes in return which would be pointless. Ben Simmons is the only all star available that might be kinda cheap, Morey still wants the world for him.

[Los_29]

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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He also said that Scottie will be the best player in a year or two so if that’s the case then we’ve essentially found our superstar. FVV is or at least should be an all-star, Pascal is putting up 20/9/4.5 and we know OG can give you 18ppg with excellent defense. If we have a player that is better than these players than our team is going to compete for a championship.

Just being better isn't enough. We would need Barnes to be as good as Giannis/Kawhi if we intend to win with this roster and not with a superteam. Lowry/Siakam were good players as were Holiday and Middleton but they wouldn't have won with just a better player than them. They won because of a top 5 player who looked like the best player in the world during those playoffs.

You could argue the Raptors will have 4 fringe Allstars if everyone develops correctly in 3 years in FVV/OG/Trent/Siakam and a star in Barnes who is a top 15 player and it might be enough but that's not certain and also more of a longshot that someone like OG or Trent improves to that level.

If you guaranteed me Barnes will be 1st team All NBA I wouldn't care about tanking or the lottery but that's still a longshot to be that good. So most realistic is he is a level below that, we need a 2nd star to overcome that and a good supporting cast behind that with FVV and Siakam as 3rd and 4th options. Otherwise we will just become a new version of the Paul George Pacers or Gasol/Randolph Grizzlies who lack the top end talent to win it all.

I see what you’re saying and I agree with you about the Bucks. But in our case we’d have an additional all-star or fringe all-star in OG plus a guy in GTJ who could very well develop into a 20ppg scorer. If not you still got a 17-18ppg score who is a solid defender. That is infinitely better than what the Bucks had after Middleton and Jrue. Bucks were giving minutes to guys Connaughton, Portis and Forbes.

You also look at the Suns who went to the finals without having that superstar caliber player. CP3 is phenomenal but don’t think anyone would put him in the top 10.

If Barnes is our best player in two years than we will have an excellent team because as of right now he’s probably our 4th best player and we’ve been hovering around .500 all year despite not being healthy.

[KL78192020]

The alternate to tanking would've been is if Harden was available this year. You give Houston GTJ plus Dragic to match salaries and 3 first round picks and 3 swaps. Then yea, we don't need to tank and go for it, thats the type of trade that needs to be made with the current roster to win without a tank.

[Badonkadonk]

Yea pretty much. With so many injuries to all the other teams, the Raptors will easily finish 7-9. Opposing team will start resting their guys towards the end of the year to helping the Raptors as well.

So ur abandoning the tank just like i predicted would happen?

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I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

So what would you do, specifically this year, to support a "tank" as you define it?

[KL78192020]

So ur abandoning the tank just like i predicted would happen?

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I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

So what would you do, specifically this year, to support a "tank" as you define it?

You give your starters extended rest, like tonight on a back to back, and guys take longer to comeback from injuries. Pretty much what they did last year. Sat a bunch of guys who were completely healthy towards the end of the year.

[billy_hoyle]

All we need to do is pick the injured college player who other teams let drop. Still can't believe OG dropped to us, nba GMs are so silly chasing short term success rather than long term

Sure. Is there an OG /MPJ type drop this year?

well AJ Griffin was injured and is now just playing again

Yep.

A 6'6" SG

Mocked top 5 pre-season (doesn't mean that much IMO, but still). Injured. Son of our assistant coach, should have pretty good insider knowledge on him.

Some legitimate physical similarities to Jimmy Butler.

[canada_dry]

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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I think thats where we disagree. Every team has had a superstar talent that won a championship, unless Barnes turns into that I doubt this current roster can win it all. Who is the last champion to win without a superstar? Detroit in 2004?

Plus what are you giving up to get Booker? I think the price would be high, pretty sure they would be demanding Barnes in return which would be pointless. Ben Simmons is the only all star available that might be kinda cheap, Morey still wants the world for him.

Imagine a zach lavine/booker/beal/pg13 type on the 2020 Raptors? Thats not a contender?

We arent most teams. Weve proven that we can be a very very very good team without a true #1/closer. U add that guy to a great nucleus without giving too much up(or at least replenishing parts of whats given up) and we r at the very least in the discussion. From there u build further. It still doesn't have to be a kawhi type fleecing lol

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[canada_dry]

I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

So what would you do, specifically this year, to support a "tank" as you define it?

You give your starters extended rest, like tonight on a back to back, and guys take longer to comeback from injuries. Pretty much what they did last year. Sat a bunch of guys who were completely healthy towards the end of the year.

And thats a feasible possibility? Because if thats what tanking is now to u guys, TWO truly is dead.

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[KL78192020]

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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I think thats where we disagree. Every team has had a superstar talent that won a championship, unless Barnes turns into that I doubt this current roster can win it all. Who is the last champion to win without a superstar? Detroit in 2004?

Plus what are you giving up to get Booker? I think the price would be high, pretty sure they would be demanding Barnes in return which would be pointless. Ben Simmons is the only all star available that might be kinda cheap, Morey still wants the world for him.

Imagine a zach lavine/booker/beal/pg13 type on the 2020 Raptors? Thats not a contender?

We arent most teams. Weve proven that we can be a very very very good team without a true #1/closer. U add that guy to a great nucleus without giving too much up(or at least replenishing parts of whats given up) and we r at the very least in the discussion. From there u build further. It still doesn't have to be a kawhi type fleecing lol

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What are you trading to get those guys? Siakam? Barnes? OG? FVV? Sure thats a contender, but how do you get any of those without giving up part of the nucleus? Scottie Barnes was a "free" addition to the team, there was nothing to give up but a few wins.

The Raptors without a true closer were the team from 2014 to 2018, Masai ripped that team apart and got Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka.