Should Fred Van Vleet be an all-star?

[everdiso]

Simmons has made 3 All Star games, and all NBA & Defense Teams. Fred played a bench role on a championship team.

NBA Finals: Fred 32.5mpg, 17.0usg%, 60.7ts%, 14.0ppg

Yea, he just needed a prime Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam, and DPOY in Gasol and another great defender in Ibaka. You would think those guys had nothing to do with it. FVV was a 4th option.

As a first option with FVV this year they are a lottery team, just like last year. What has he done without Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka/Lowry?

No team has been as demolished by injury this year and last like the raps have. They've been basically missing a Simmons level player all year with OG and Pascal's consecutive injuries.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what a healthy raps squad will do.

As for the 6ers - well, yeah, Simmons was their only ballhandler last year and now they literally have zero ballhandlers. Poorly built team.

[Feed Your Head]

I don't see how Jrue doesn't make the team - Bucks will get two all-stars. We are over-rating Lamelo and Brown's chances here. I think both FVV and Beal have a higher chance of getting in than those guys.

I think Jrue/FVV/Beal all make it, personally.

Mathematically, doesn't seem possible with Trae most likely a starter and Harden, LaVine and DDR essentially locks.

I think they’ll make Demar eligible at forward too, since technically he plays it quite a bit.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think Jrue/FVV/Beal all make it, personally.

Mathematically, doesn't seem possible with Trae most likely a starter and Harden, LaVine and DDR essentially locks.

I think they’ll make Demar eligible at forward too, since technically he plays it quite a bit.

Aw, as one of the wild card guys, I got you.

Still think Ball and Garland have a chance but guess in a few weeks we'll find out.

[AussieCeltic]

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

Why should Boston categorically have an All-Star? They currently have a sub-.500 record and are ranked 10th in the conference, a half-game ahead of New York at 11th. If Toronto and Washington are ranked 7th and 8th with a 26-24 record when the selections are made, while Boston is sitting at 11th place with a 23-27 record, why should Tatum make it over Beal and Van Vleet?

Statistically, Van Vleet looks better than Tatum, and Beal is about the same.

We shouldn’t categorically have an all star but you’re being disingenuous with the records. Yes we are in 10th, but only half game back of Toronto and only 2.5 games back of 5th place.

You then throw up weird hypothetical records to try make your point. Raptors schedule is harder in the next month than Boston so every chance Boston is ranked higher than both the Wizards and Raptors.

Celtics have played the 6th hardest schedule so far this season and have an easier remaining schedule than every team in the East aside from the Cavs.

[Warriors2022]

No, nobody on the Raptors is Allstar worthy. I mean, they aint even a playoff team atm.

[Flash4thewin]

If he can get the Raps a few more wins he should be in. I dont understand how Simmons is involved in this conversation? Performance wise Van Vleet has all star numbers, its team wins that are need, if he gets the team on a roll, no reason the coaches wont pick him.

[mademan]

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Raptors are pretty much a lottery team with FVV, with Simmons the Sixers were a first seed and are struggling this year. He makes an impact in so many ways. Raptors would be stupid not to make that trade if it was offered.

Im sorry, is Simmons the best player on his team? And lol at Philly struggling without Simmons. They struggle when Embiid misses games; they started out the season as the top seed without Simmons. Theyre 18-7 when Embiid plays

By literally every objective measure (Box score or impact), FVV is having as good a season as Ben Simmons has ever had. If you wanna argue why every stat that says this is wrong, you can go ahead.

[nate33]

I just can't see Boston not having an all-star and Tatum is a better player than Brown.

Agree that Beal has been much better as of late. If FVV doesn't make it, my bet is that it's the Beal scenario.

Why should Boston categorically have an All-Star? They currently have a sub-.500 record and are ranked 10th in the conference, a half-game ahead of New York at 11th. If Toronto and Washington are ranked 7th and 8th with a 26-24 record when the selections are made, while Boston is sitting at 11th place with a 23-27 record, why should Tatum make it over Beal and Van Vleet?

Statistically, Van Vleet looks better than Tatum, and Beal is about the same.

We shouldn’t categorically have an all star but you’re being disingenuous with the records. Yes we are in 10th, but only half game back of Toronto and only 2.5 games back of 5th place.

You then throw up weird hypothetical records to try make your point. Raptors schedule is harder in the next month than Boston so every chance Boston is ranked higher than both the Wizards and Raptors.

Celtics have played the 6th hardest schedule so far this season and have an easier remaining schedule than every team in the East aside from the Cavs.

You misunderstood.

I'm not saying Jason Tatum absolutely should not be an All-Star. I'm merely saying there's a very plausible scenario with Washington and Toronto playing 1 game above .500 for a month and the Celtics playing 2 games below .500 for a month that yields the records I posted. And in that hypothetical but plausible scenario, why is it that Tatum should be an automatic All-Star bid?

If the vote was today, I'd probably have Tatum on the list ahead of Beal. As you said, the difference in record between Boston and Washington is minimal, and Tatum currently has slightly better numbers. All I'm saying is that team record could have a big impact on that by the time selections are made.

[Big J]

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Raptors are pretty much a lottery team with FVV, with Simmons the Sixers were a first seed and are struggling this year. He makes an impact in so many ways. Raptors would be stupid not to make that trade if it was offered.

Im sorry, is Simmons the best player on his team? And lol at Philly struggling without Simmons. They struggle when Embiid misses games; they started out the season as the top seed without Simmons. Theyre 18-7 when Embiid plays

By literally every objective measure (Box score or impact), FVV is having as good a season as Ben Simmons has ever had. If you wanna argue why every stat that says this is wrong, you can go ahead.

Fred is playing way above his ski's in a small sample size. He's very limited athletically and size wise, and has never shown the ability to be the man on a winning team. He'll come back down to earth when the Raps get their guys back.

[payton2kemp]

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

Raptors are pretty much a lottery team with FVV, with Simmons the Sixers were a first seed and are struggling this year. He makes an impact in so many ways. Raptors would be stupid not to make that trade if it was offered.

Im sorry, is Simmons the best player on his team? And lol at Philly struggling without Simmons. They struggle when Embiid misses games; they started out the season as the top seed without Simmons. Theyre 18-7 when Embiid plays

By literally every objective measure (Box score or impact), FVV is having as good a season as Ben Simmons has ever had. If you wanna argue why every stat that says this is wrong, you can go ahead.

Simmons was the second option on his team and they were first last year. FVV as a first option leads to lottery team lol. He needs to be a 3rd/4th option for his team to have success.

[mademan]

Raptors are pretty much a lottery team with FVV, with Simmons the Sixers were a first seed and are struggling this year. He makes an impact in so many ways. Raptors would be stupid not to make that trade if it was offered.

Im sorry, is Simmons the best player on his team? And lol at Philly struggling without Simmons. They struggle when Embiid misses games; they started out the season as the top seed without Simmons. Theyre 18-7 when Embiid plays

By literally every objective measure (Box score or impact), FVV is having as good a season as Ben Simmons has ever had. If you wanna argue why every stat that says this is wrong, you can go ahead.

Simmons was the second option on his team and they were first last year. FVV as a first option leads to lottery team lol. He needs to be a 3rd/4th option for his team to have success.

Siakam was the 2nd option and Raps won a title. lol. What does that mean? Siakam>>Simmons then right?

[LoveMyRaps]

Simmons also won an NBA title with his stellar clutch play, shooting 40% from 3 in the finals while holding Steph to 34% from deep with his pesky defense. Oh wait...

Hmm which guy do you want - the guy who was church 4th quarter guy in the championship finals, or the guy who was benched in the 4th quarters of round 1?

Tough call!

Simmons has made 3 All Star games, and all NBA & Defense Teams. Fred played a bench role on a championship team.

What do past accolades have to do with who's the better and more valuable player right now?
FVV is a guy that has been making significant improvements to his game every season and has been playing at an all-star level.
Simmons is a guy who's best season was arguably his rookie year and it's been downhill since.

So do you want the hard working gym rat who's game is on a big uptrend and is only owed 20mil over the next 3 seasons OR do you want the self-centered softie who's work ethic sucks and is owed 40mil AAV over the next 4 seasons?

[jc23]

No, but only because i prefer my realgm raptor fans with a little vinegar in their blood.

[FreeThrowLine]

Water

[everdiso]

Raptors are pretty much a lottery team with FVV, with Simmons the Sixers were a first seed and are struggling this year. He makes an impact in so many ways. Raptors would be stupid not to make that trade if it was offered.

Im sorry, is Simmons the best player on his team? And lol at Philly struggling without Simmons. They struggle when Embiid misses games; they started out the season as the top seed without Simmons. Theyre 18-7 when Embiid plays

By literally every objective measure (Box score or impact), FVV is having as good a season as Ben Simmons has ever had. If you wanna argue why every stat that says this is wrong, you can go ahead.

Simmons was the second option on his team and they were first last year. FVV as a first option leads to lottery team lol. He needs to be a 3rd/4th option for his team to have success.

Simmons was the 4th option.

Playoffs

Embiid 17.9fga
Harris 17.9
Curry 12.3
Simmons 7.9

He was the primary ballhandler tho.

Back when Philly was actually good in the playoffs, Simmons was actually the 5th option.

Playoffs '19

Butler 14.6fga
Embiid 14.5
Harris 13.9
Reddick 10.3
Simmons 9.7



Think about that - Simmons was an utter playoffs flop EVEN AS A 4TH/5TH OPTION.

Imagine you needed him to be a 1st or 2nd option? Yikes.

[Big J]

Hmm which guy do you want - the guy who was church 4th quarter guy in the championship finals, or the guy who was benched in the 4th quarters of round 1?

Tough call!

Simmons has made 3 All Star games, and all NBA & Defense Teams. Fred played a bench role on a championship team.

What do past accolades have to do with who's the better and more valuable player right now?
FVV is a guy that has been making significant improvements to his game every season and has been playing at an all-star level.
Simmons is a guy who's best season was arguably his rookie year and it's been downhill since.

So do you want the hard working gym rat who's game is on a big uptrend and is only owed 20mil over the next 3 seasons OR do you want the self-centered softie who's work ethic sucks and is owed 40mil AAV over the next 4 seasons?

Fred is the perfect example of a guy who you should sell high on. He's completely capped out, and the stats will regress when the Raps get their guys back. Simmons is a distressed asset who's a blue chip level talent. His ceiling is much higher than Freds.

[everdiso]

Simmons has made 3 All Star games, and all NBA & Defense Teams. Fred played a bench role on a championship team.

What do past accolades have to do with who's the better and more valuable player right now?
FVV is a guy that has been making significant improvements to his game every season and has been playing at an all-star level.
Simmons is a guy who's best season was arguably his rookie year and it's been downhill since.

So do you want the hard working gym rat who's game is on a big uptrend and is only owed 20mil over the next 3 seasons OR do you want the self-centered softie who's work ethic sucks and is owed 40mil AAV over the next 4 seasons?

Fred is the perfect example of a guy who you should sell high on. He's completely capped out, and the stats will regress when the Raps get their guys back. Simmons is a distressed asset who's a blue chip level talent. His ceiling is much higher than Freds.

In reality, Fred is a player that will just not quit improving year after year, and is blossoming into an elite stud at 27 just like his mentor Lowry did.

Selling now that he's playing way above his contract and is matching the best in the league is a terrible idea, just like it would have been a terrible idea to trade Lowry at the same age (thank you Knicks!!!).

[Big J]

What do past accolades have to do with who's the better and more valuable player right now?
FVV is a guy that has been making significant improvements to his game every season and has been playing at an all-star level.
Simmons is a guy who's best season was arguably his rookie year and it's been downhill since.

So do you want the hard working gym rat who's game is on a big uptrend and is only owed 20mil over the next 3 seasons OR do you want the self-centered softie who's work ethic sucks and is owed 40mil AAV over the next 4 seasons?

Fred is the perfect example of a guy who you should sell high on. He's completely capped out, and the stats will regress when the Raps get their guys back. Simmons is a distressed asset who's a blue chip level talent. His ceiling is much higher than Freds.

In reality, Fred is a player that will just not quit improving year after year, and is blossoming into an elite stud at 27 just like his mentor Lowry did.

Selling now that he's playing way above his contract and is matching the best in the league is a terrible idea, just like it would have been a terrible idea to trade Lowry at the same age (thank you Knicks!!!).

Naw, it would be more like selling high on Mike James after 05-06.

[Alfred]

Simmons has made 3 All Star games, and all NBA & Defense Teams. Fred played a bench role on a championship team.

NBA Finals: Fred 32.5mpg, 17.0usg%, 60.7ts%, 14.0ppg

Yea, he just needed a prime Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam, and DPOY in Gasol and another great defender in Ibaka. You would think those guys had nothing to do with it. FVV was a 4th option.

As a first option with FVV this year they are a lottery team, just like last year. What has he done without Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka/Lowry?

People keep mentioning "lottery team". If the Raptors win tonight they're in 7th place, and a huge amount of that is due to Fred VanVleet.

[dkb965]

NBA Finals: Fred 32.5mpg, 17.0usg%, 60.7ts%, 14.0ppg

Yea, he just needed a prime Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam, and DPOY in Gasol and another great defender in Ibaka. You would think those guys had nothing to do with it. FVV was a 4th option.

As a first option with FVV this year they are a lottery team, just like last year. What has he done without Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka/Lowry?

People keep mentioning "lottery team". If the Raptors win tonight they're in 7th place, and a huge amount of that is due to Fred VanVleet.

Raptors are going to have to play really well obviously, but the 6th seed is not out of the question. It feels like they have not even played the Bulls/Heat yet and those are going to be tough games. They have the Nets/76ers/Celtics in the division that are tough games for them as well. They are tough to figure out because they have not had a healthy team until recently. They have solid talent in Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby/Barnes/Trent Jr.