Tank World Order (7.0)

[Los_29]

I think thats where we disagree. Every team has had a superstar talent that won a championship, unless Barnes turns into that I doubt this current roster can win it all. Who is the last champion to win without a superstar? Detroit in 2004?

Plus what are you giving up to get Booker? I think the price would be high, pretty sure they would be demanding Barnes in return which would be pointless. Ben Simmons is the only all star available that might be kinda cheap, Morey still wants the world for him.

Imagine a zach lavine/booker/beal/pg13 type on the 2020 Raptors? Thats not a contender?

We arent most teams. Weve proven that we can be a very very very good team without a true #1/closer. U add that guy to a great nucleus without giving too much up(or at least replenishing parts of whats given up) and we r at the very least in the discussion. From there u build further. It still doesn't have to be a kawhi type fleecing lol

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What are you trading to get those guys? Siakam? Barnes? OG? FVV? Sure thats a contender, but how do you get any of those without giving up part of the nucleus? Scottie Barnes was a "free" addition to the team, there was nothing to give up but a few wins.

The Raptors without a true closer were the team from 2014 to 2018, Masai ripped that team apart and got Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka.

Harden was dealt for late FRP's.

[Mikistan]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

[Los_29]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

Yes those guys were included to make the numbers work but Caris Levert was then shipped off for an expiring contract in Oladipo. Houston just got picks for one of the most gifted offensive players of all-time.

[KL78192020]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

And Allen, plus the biggest caveat being Harden wants to be in Brooklyn so its worth it. If the Raptors gave up all that to see him leave a year later, lol that would be such a fail.

The advantage of drafting a star is you have 8/9 years of control depending on options. RFA was the best thing that happened to the CBA in 1998, if it was in place earlier the Raptors would've kept Tmac.

[Mikistan]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

Yes those guys were included to make the numbers work but Caris Levert was then shipped off for an expiring contract in Oladipo. Houston just got picks for one of the most gifted offensive players of all-time.

So in other words they got more than picks just because Houston didn't then keep them is irrelevant they got more than picks in the deal end of story and it took Jarret Allen to aslo be included so nets gave up 2 players of talent and a bench player plus all the picks

[Los_29]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

Yes those guys were included to make the numbers work but Caris Levert was then shipped off for an expiring contract in Oladipo. Houston just got picks for one of the most gifted offensive players of all-time.

So in other words they got more than picks just because Houston didn't then keep them is irrelevant they got more than picks in the deal end of story and it took Jarret Allen to aslo be included so nets gave up 2 players of talent and a bench player plus all the picks

Allen went to the Cavs. Levert went to Indiana. Houston didn’t want players, they wanted picks. What the Nets gave up is irrelevant because none of those players went to Houston. Houston had Harden and they traded him for picks and expiring contracts.

[Mikistan]

Yes those guys were included to make the numbers work but Caris Levert was then shipped off for an expiring contract in Oladipo. Houston just got picks for one of the most gifted offensive players of all-time.

So in other words they got more than picks just because Houston didn't then keep them is irrelevant they got more than picks in the deal end of story and it took Jarret Allen to aslo be included so nets gave up 2 players of talent and a bench player plus all the picks

Allen went to the Cavs. Levert went to Indiana. Houston didn’t want players, they wanted picks. What the Nets gave up is irrelevant because none of those players went to Houston. Houston had Harden and they traded him for picks and expiring contracts.

no it is relevant because we aren't the Rockets, the conversation was how could we had an top end talent, so you look at what the nets gave up to get the talent, now what the dumbass Rockets organization did...

[Badonkadonk]

So what would you do, specifically this year, to support a "tank" as you define it?

You give your starters extended rest, like tonight on a back to back, and guys take longer to comeback from injuries. Pretty much what they did last year. Sat a bunch of guys who were completely healthy towards the end of the year.

And thats a feasible possibility? Because if thats what tanking is now to u guys, TWO truly is dead.

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That was kind of my point.

There's no realistic way to sit perfectly healthy guys excessively without coming under scrutiny by the league, like last year. You also risk seriously pissing healthy players off (proving yourself on court ultimately translates to contract dollars).

Moreover, OG, Barnes and GTJ will play heavily regardless. They are developing. There's going to be a floor to how bad the team is compared to the true dregs.

Anyways this is what I mean when I say "TWO" is made up. It doesn't really stand for any particular approach, or nonsensical ones.

[Raptors_128]

Caris LeVert and forward Rodions Kurucs, as well as three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) to Houston. The Rockets also receive guard Dante Exum and a 2022 first round draft pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee)

Yes those guys were included to make the numbers work but Caris Levert was then shipped off for an expiring contract in Oladipo. Houston just got picks for one of the most gifted offensive players of all-time.

So in other words they got more than picks just because Houston didn't then keep them is irrelevant they got more than picks in the deal end of story and it took Jarret Allen to aslo be included so nets gave up 2 players of talent and a bench player plus all the picks

The going rate for stars now are multiple unprotected/lightly protected picks. There’s no way Masai would ever make a trade like that imo. He values flexibility and having the ability to pivot. The teams that make trades like that usually already have a superstar, it’s and all-or-nothing move typically.

PG, Harden, AD, Jrue, Westbrook (to Houston), etc.

[beanbag]

I support the tank 100%, I always said this was 7-12 range team depending on injuries to the Raptors and opponents obviously Masai isn't tanking.

This team needs top end talent, how do you propose they get another Kawhi on the cheap? Scottie will be there best player in a year or two because of the tank.

So what would you do, specifically this year, to support a "tank" as you define it?

You give your starters extended rest, like tonight on a back to back, and guys take longer to comeback from injuries. Pretty much what they did last year. Sat a bunch of guys who were completely healthy towards the end of the year.

Key term, "towards the end of the year". The team wasn't tanking for the majority of last year and they aren't tanking now. Teams with .500 records aren't pulling the pin less than halfway through the year.

[PhilBlackson]

Giannis out again, unf*cking real time for Los to anoint the Raps title contenders for beating up depleted rosters.

[TheRaptor!]

Definitely starting to balance out now after so many fake losses to begin the year. I have our record adjusted for fake wins and losses at 20-14 but can easily be 21-13.

But teams should be able to win without their best players which is what tWo said when we were losing without ours. Bucks have no excuse tonight. Must win for them at home. Defending champs.

How do you propose the Raptors get their next Kawhi at a steep discount within the next two years? Before Siakam/FVV contracts expire.

I propose we dont need a top 5 player like kawhi. A good wing that can be our closer is what we need. Maybe its a top 20 guy. Lets say hypothetically, the situation in Chicago didnt work out at all and now zach lavine is made available at this deadline because he wants out. What if Phoenix didnt add cp3 and booker is tired of losing and wants out? They arent top 5 guys. But a guy like that to this team does put us into contention. A situation like that is right around the corner with another similarly talented player, And if masai wants to act on it he will. To act like we need a kawhi level deal to happen twice to be really good again is not genuine.

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That player is Jaylen Brown and we should trade OG for him

[Nebuchadnezzar]

_

[Ell Curry]

I'm fully off the tank emotionally. I'd put our over/under for the season at 43 or 44 wins, so losing 3-4 more games just isn't that big a difference.

[Madhouse]

we are back to winning against star less squads...

[will]

we are back.

Never left.

7.0 edition of tWo.

[will]

Giannis out again, unf*cking real time for Los to anoint the Raps title contenders for beating up depleted rosters.

That is IF the Raptors win tonight.

[canada_dry]

I think thats where we disagree. Every team has had a superstar talent that won a championship, unless Barnes turns into that I doubt this current roster can win it all. Who is the last champion to win without a superstar? Detroit in 2004?

Plus what are you giving up to get Booker? I think the price would be high, pretty sure they would be demanding Barnes in return which would be pointless. Ben Simmons is the only all star available that might be kinda cheap, Morey still wants the world for him.

Imagine a zach lavine/booker/beal/pg13 type on the 2020 Raptors? Thats not a contender?

We arent most teams. Weve proven that we can be a very very very good team without a true #1/closer. U add that guy to a great nucleus without giving too much up(or at least replenishing parts of whats given up) and we r at the very least in the discussion. From there u build further. It still doesn't have to be a kawhi type fleecing lol

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What are you trading to get those guys? Siakam? Barnes? OG? FVV? Sure thats a contender, but how do you get any of those without giving up part of the nucleus? Scottie Barnes was a "free" addition to the team, there was nothing to give up but a few wins.

The Raptors without a true closer were the team from 2014 to 2018, Masai ripped that team apart and got Kawhi/Gasol/Ibaka.

The devil is in the details indeed. It would take something like a core piece +young piece+1 or 2 picks. The point i was making is as long as u keep most of the core and u make an upgrade with a piece like this, you're in the drivers seat. Of course its about waiting for the right opportunity. But thats what the whole game is sometimes. What im trying to illustrate to u is it doesn't necessarily require a Kawhi level guy or a Kawhi kinda trade. Not necessarily, especially with this team.

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[canada_dry]

You give your starters extended rest, like tonight on a back to back, and guys take longer to comeback from injuries. Pretty much what they did last year. Sat a bunch of guys who were completely healthy towards the end of the year.

And thats a feasible possibility? Because if thats what tanking is now to u guys, TWO truly is dead.

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That was kind of my point.

There's no realistic way to sit perfectly healthy guys excessively without coming under scrutiny by the league, like last year. You also risk seriously pissing healthy players off (proving yourself on court ultimately translates to contract dollars).

Moreover, OG, Barnes and GTJ will play heavily regardless. They are developing. There's going to be a floor to how bad the team is compared to the true dregs.

Anyways this is what I mean when I say "TWO" is made up. It doesn't really stand for any particular approach, or nonsensical ones.

I completely agree. This has been my argument against TWO from day 1 of this season specifically. We have too high a floor.

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[720]

GG boys, I said I wouldn't post for a week if we beat the Bucks, gonna follow through with it. (this was before the Giannis was out news came out but still gonna honour it ).