Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[countryboy667]

Given last night, are we going to keep Lance beyond his ten day? We damned well badly need someone with his kind of wacky aggressiveness and I give a sh*t confidence to light a fire under some of the guys on our roster who seem to me to be just too satisfied doing just enough to draw a paycheck...you think any of those guys would have the cojones to blow in lebron's ear like Lance did? Love the guy!!! Give me a team full of guys like him and they might not win a title, but they would play every damned game waaaaay over their heads, win games they have no damned right to be winning based just on talent, and have a hell of a lot of fun doing it!

To be fair, that was 7 years ago.

Regardless of how one feels, it’s hard to see a way that Indy could let Lance walk after his performances this week, and with the fandom love. But the hard part is, they have to clear a roster spot, AND stay under the tax in doing so.

You're right--we need to be making some very hard decisions about who's going to stay and who's going to go. It's especially hard because as disappointing as this group has been, I don't think it's been because of lack of talent, so where do you legitimately start? I also think boss Simon is right--because the talent is there, a retool should be the way to go, not a blow-it-up rebuild.

As much as I like the guy--and I like him a lot--I'd move Sabonis before Turner. Turner showed me in that one game when Sabonis didn't play (or play much, if I remember) that he can score big time and protect the rim. For one thing, I believe it's time to give Goga a shot, and that hyper-athletic young guy--what's his name? Jackson?

It's taking a chance, because of the possibility of free agency, but I'd also wait to see what Warren looks like after his long layoff. I don't think his performance in the bubble was a one-time fluke. That kind of talent, if it was for real, and I think it was, is very, very difficult to replace. Brogdan can't be moved, but I'd start Duarte over Levert. It may be because of Covid, but I give coach credit for giving some of these young guys a decent look. I think I see a lot of Reggie in Duarte. You agree?

Regardless, I think Lance has earned a spot here. Something about being in a Pacer uniform is like giving him a combination of steroids and speed, and his energy and sheer audacity on a team properly constructed would be contagious.

If you had to move someone to make room for him, who would you suggest--and how--trade or waiver?

[Wizop]

I liked Kelan but there is the spot for Lance.

[Scoot McGroot]

If you had to move someone to make room for him, who would you suggest--and how--trade or waiver?

Good question. We just waived Kelan, so that’s what the team is doing. I would have done one of many things, mpbut mostly focused on Lamb. I would’ve looked to dump his contract via trade, or trade him for a less wanted expiring guy and waived that guy. Or looked to buy him out and save $1m or so, but that would require Lamb agreeing to do so.

I hate giving up Kelan, who is a legit nba wing, and developing. Every team needs as many wings as possible.

[Pacers Forever]

If you had to move someone to make room for him, who would you suggest--and how--trade or waiver?

Good question. We just waived Kelan, so that’s what the team is doing. I would have done one of many things, mpbut mostly focused on Lamb. I would’ve looked to dump his contract via trade, or trade him for a less wanted expiring guy and waived that guy. Or looked to buy him out and save $1m or so, but that would require Lamb agreeing to do so.

I hate giving up Kelan, who is a legit nba wing, and developing. Every team needs as many wings as possible.

I agree Lamb would be the best player to move $ wise and performance wise he doesn’t show up every night to his talent level.

I think the reason he’s not being moved yet is I’ve seen players say he’s a funny guy so it might cause hard feelings in the locker room.

Secondly, I think he’s more movable at the trade deadline to a team looking for 3 point shooting for their second unit thus why teams aren’t interested yet.

Now if rival GM’s are smart they’ll wait until next year when he’s a free agent with no better value and sign cheaper.

[8305]

I liked Kelan but there is the spot for Lance.

I watched Kalen a lot at Butler. To be honest I never figured he'd amount to much in the NBA. He's a poor man's Caris Levert. Butler won some games they probably shouldn't have because Kalen. But at the end of the day he wasn't an efficient a player at Butler and I could never bring myself to expect that to be any better in the NBA. For me if you couldn't get something done with Lamb quick this would have been a pretty easy decision.

[Scoot McGroot]

If you had to move someone to make room for him, who would you suggest--and how--trade or waiver?

Good question. We just waived Kelan, so that’s what the team is doing. I would have done one of many things, mpbut mostly focused on Lamb. I would’ve looked to dump his contract via trade, or trade him for a less wanted expiring guy and waived that guy. Or looked to buy him out and save $1m or so, but that would require Lamb agreeing to do so.

I hate giving up Kelan, who is a legit nba wing, and developing. Every team needs as many wings as possible.

I agree Lamb would be the best player to move $ wise and performance wise he doesn’t show up every night to his talent level.

I think the reason he’s not being moved yet is I’ve seen players say he’s a funny guy so it might cause hard feelings in the locker room.

Secondly, I think he’s more movable at the trade deadline to a team looking for 3 point shooting for their second unit thus why teams aren’t interested yet.

Now if rival GM’s are smart they’ll wait until next year when he’s a free agent with no better value and sign cheaper.

I would think that we simply couldn’t move him at this point because no one would trade for him right now. His trade value is likely almost solely as a somewhat useful expiring salary filler. Kelan was decent enough on both ends of the court that I hate to waive him.

[pacers33granger]

I liked Kelan as a minimum end of the bench guy. The cut makes sense and it's not like it's a big deal.

I will say that I've been disappointed in what we've ultimately gotten in recent years out of end of bench guys. The production has been ok when those type of guys have gotten minutes. But we've missed a lot of opportunities to develop cheap depth that has continuity with the team. Some of that has been unfortunate situations, though some of it has been poor scouting, developing, or both.

Kelan, Stanley, Brimah, Sumner, Bowen, Alize, Ike, GRIII, Joe Young, Niang...

By my count those are the fringe prospects we put developmental time into over the past 6 or so seasons. The rest of the minimum spots were for low end vets. Some prospects just weren't good enough, though why put that much time into them? Some had injury issues and to be fair Sumner was poised to be that guy to breakout for us. I think out of all of those guys we basically got roughly a cumulative year of flashes from Sumner.

It's a very very minor nitpick and it's hard to be upset with a straight face over 15th men not panning out. But it's been evident where we've whiffed on multiple firsts in recent years. All that said, I'm cautiously optimistic with what we've seen from our two rookies and now Washington as well.

[Pacers Forever]

I liked Kelan as a minimum end of the bench guy. The cut makes sense and it's not like it's a big deal.

I will say that I've been disappointed in what we've ultimately gotten in recent years out of end of bench guys. The production has been ok when those type of guys have gotten minutes. But we've missed a lot of opportunities to develop cheap depth that has continuity with the team. Some of that has been unfortunate situations, though some of it has been poor scouting, developing, or both.

Kelan, Stanley, Brimah, Sumner, Bowen, Alize, Ike, GRIII, Joe Young, Niang...

By my count those are the fringe prospects we put developmental time into over the past 6 or so seasons. The rest of the minimum spots were for low end vets. Some prospects just weren't good enough, though why put that much time into them? Some had injury issues and to be fair Sumner was poised to be that guy to breakout for us. I think out of all of those guys we basically got roughly a cumulative year of flashes from Sumner.

It's a very very minor nitpick and it's hard to be upset with a straight face over 15th men not panning out. But it's been evident where we've whiffed on multiple firsts in recent years. All that said, I'm cautiously optimistic with what we've seen from our two rookies and now Washington as well.

That’s a very telling list of players not working out here. I’m still a buyer on Sumner.

I love that the end of the bench is playing hard and that the Pacers have been proactive this year, dropping Brimah from 2 way, signing Washington as a non drafted FA, Sykes and Taylor from SL tryout to G league, and now possibly Lance from a 10 day.

Now if only they can be this aggressive in fixing the top of the roster we’ll have something to look forward to.

[drsd]

Magic fan here:

It seems obvious the Pacers is now trying to lose games. To facilitate a power tank move, I wonder hat fans value for Myles Turner.

I ask as the Magic's Carter looks clear as a PF and that makes F-Wagner a SF, and thus there is no starting roster slot for Jonathan Isaac. Would Isaac and Mo Bamba be a favour deal for Indiana fans?

[boomershadow]

Right now I kinda just see a team with no identity. A collection of mostly above average players but no real game plan to maximize those strengths.

I really just want to see a direction and start moving towards it. We know what is going on now isn't working.

1. Blow it up completely and go full youth movement.

2. Choose a center and build around him. Put a legit dominant defense around Turner. Or pick Domas and surround him with shooters.

3. Get a player from somewhere who wants a different environment. I've been skeptical about the Ben Simmons plan, but that would at least be a direction and feel like forward momentum. Fox is another option. The Pacers have been bad the last couple of years. The Kings havent shown an ability to put a competent team around anyone for way way longer than that. Fox/Brogdon back court could be really dynamic.

4. Decide we were doing it wrong all along and finally build around Lance. Just give him the ball and see what happens. That might sound silly, but I'm not at all convinced it would lead to less wins than we are currently seeing. Certainly more entertaining to watch at least.

There are some directions available to go in. Gotta decide on one. Make some roster moves to support that direction.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

[Scoot McGroot]

Magic fan here:

It seems obvious the Pacers is now trying to lose games. To facilitate a power tank move, I wonder hat fans value for Myles Turner.

I ask as the Magic's Carter looks clear as a PF and that makes F-Wagner a SF, and thus there is no starting roster slot for Jonathan Isaac. Would Isaac and Mo Bamba be a favour deal for Indiana fans?

I wouldn’t say we’ve been trying to lose games. Or at least, I wouldn’t infer that over the last ten days of play. We’ve been hit pretty hard by Covid, having up to 8 guys at one time on the Covid list. We’ve been starting Keifer Sykes (who? ) and Duane Washington on a 2 way. We’ve been playing a ton of Covid hardship guys this past week. Add in that we’ve still had McConnell and Warren out injured, among others, and we’ve had a severely understaffed roster.

We may not be winning, but we’re not losing on purpose. The owner won’t allow that. We’re not good, but we’ve also been running a near GLeague roster out there this past two weeks.

As for Isaac for Turner, it just depends on Isaac returning to health. Salary wise, we can’t do Isaac/Bamba, as it wouldn’t work legally, and would put us into the tax for almost the entirety of Bamba’s salary. Make it a 1st, or find someone that would give a 1st, and you’re heading down the right path, even if not specifically right. A healthy Isaac certainly is the type of player we’d love to have at the 4. But after back to back major injuries, I’m not sure we’d want that health risk, since we’ve lost out on a ton of major health risks on the roster right now already.

When’s Isaac supposed to return to the court?

[Topofthekey]

Right now I kinda just see a team with no identity. A collection of mostly above average players but no real game plan to maximize those strengths.

I really just want to see a direction and start moving towards it. We know what is going on now isn't working.

1. Blow it up completely and go full youth movement.

2. Choose a center and build around him. Put a legit dominant defense around Turner. Or pick Domas and surround him with shooters.

2.5 Or just lean in to the two big set up instead of half-cocking it. It makes no sense to commit to playing two bigs but turn them into bystanders on court in favour of the guards

3. Get a player from somewhere who wants a different environment. I've been skeptical about the Ben Simmons plan, but that would at least be a direction and feel like forward momentum. Fox is another option. The Pacers have been bad the last couple of years. The Kings havent shown an ability to put a competent team around anyone for way way longer than that. Fox/Brogdon back court could be really dynamic.

4. Decide we were doing it wrong all along and finally build around Lance. Just give him the ball and see what happens. That might sound silly, but I'm not at all convinced it would lead to less wins than we are currently seeing. Certainly more entertaining to watch at least.

There are some directions available to go in. Gotta decide on one. Make some roster moves to support that direction.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

[Scoot McGroot]

Don’t be surprised if Lance is strung along on Covid 10 days, and then 10 day contracts until after the deadline before signing for the rest of the season. It would help a ton in case of making a lopsided trade at the deadline.

[Topofthekey]

The one year that Pacers look like they're going to get a good pick, the top 3 prospects are all bigs

This Pacers luck man smh

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Because the Pacers are going to go on a 10 game winning streak in the final weeks of the season and play their way out of a top 10 pick

That's how it is with this team

[Scoot McGroot]

The one year that Pacers look like they're going to get a good pick, the top 3 prospects are all bigs

This Pacers luck man smh

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Because the Pacers are going to go on a 10 game winning streak in the final weeks of the season and play their way out of a top 10 pick

That's how it is with this team

Chet Holmgren is a C. Jabari and Paolo are PF/SF type forwards, though, for sure, and could possibly develop into lead ball handling type wings. We could absolutely use them. Otherwise, there’s Jaden Ivy, Johnny Davis and a few other possibly lead/scoring guards up there. There’s only the 3 C’s possibly in the lotto right now of Chet, Duran, and Mark Williams from Duke. I think we could use most anybody else that’s out there.

[Scoot McGroot]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[pacers33granger]

Not sure I would advocate for it, but if we did luck into a top pick and one of the bigs was our guy, we could move one or both of Myles/Domas at the draft. Similar to what the Sonics did drafting Durant and trading Ray Allen for the Jeff Green pick.

I have seen some people believe that Chet could play next to someone like Domas though. He's a potential gamechanger on defense and could essentially turn into a better version of Myles.

I'd bet that one or several guards/wings move into conversation for top 3 by draft time either way.

[drsd]

As for Isaac for Turner, it just depends on Isaac returning to health. Salary wise, we can’t do Isaac/Bamba, as it wouldn’t work legally, and would put us into the tax for almost the entirety of Bamba’s salary.

This is the "and change" part of the trade. It is allowed to have separate, but coupled trades. So officially it ould be Isaac for Turner and that is coupled to Bamba for a 10M bag of crisps.

Make it a 1st, or find someone that would give a 1st, and you’re heading down the right path, even if not specifically right.

At some point the Magic is likely to add the Bulls and/or the Nuggets picks in such trades.

A healthy Isaac certainly is the type of player we’d love to have at the 4. But after back to back major injuries, I’m not sure we’d want that health risk, since we’ve lost out on a ton of major health risks on the roster right now already.

When’s Isaac supposed to return to the court?

About three months ago. Why Isaac is not yet on the court is a Mystery in Magicville. We also have no timeline on Moore or Carter-Williams. And is is semi-silent for Suggs and Fultz. This is typical for Orlando to not explain or explore to fans the injury recovery system.

For all we Magic fans know, Isaac is fully game healthy and the team is holding him out to lose games.


..

[davidfr94]

I have criticized sabonis a lot since the beggining of the year.

But his recent play, and not just today but since brogdon and levert have been out of the lineup, has made me reconsider things.

Indeed, it's possible that his struggles were more a result of guard play and coaching.
Something some of you have been telling us.

Sykes, Washington and especially Stephenson have done a wonderfull job with Sabonis.

Also, he is shooting a LOT better lately and he is totally different player when his shot is falling.
Plus, it makes the pairing with Turner a lot more dangerous.

Rick needs to put levert on the bench and tell brogdon to share the ball more on offense.

Maybe start lance and let brogdon play off ball more ?

I was more on the "let's trade every one and rebuild" but seeing how our team has been playing lately, i'm more willing to let the year play out.

I would try to keep Turner, Sabonis (make him work all summer on his shot), holliday, lance, Stephenson, Duarte of course and maybe Warren if he comes back well.
Even brogdon but more on a complimentary role. He is at best a third option.

I would be ok trading the rest of the team.

If we can find a way to grab a defensive pass first point guard (rubio type), a 3 and D wing and a good iso scorer if we let Warren walk i think we can be competitive imo.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using RealGM mobile app

[Scoot McGroot]

As for Isaac for Turner, it just depends on Isaac returning to health. Salary wise, we can’t do Isaac/Bamba, as it wouldn’t work legally, and would put us into the tax for almost the entirety of Bamba’s salary.

This is the "and change" part of the trade. It is allowed to have separate, but coupled trades. So officially it ould be Isaac for Turner and that is coupled to Bamba for a 10M bag of crisps.

I'm confused. What's the goal? Are you insisting we eat Bamba as part of the deal? You want us to give you Lamb for him as part of the bigger deal? We see less than no benefit to receiving Bamba, and his value would be wasted. Would have to send him to a 3rd team, for sure. But, if you tell me what your goal is here, maybe I can understand and project into that?

A healthy Isaac certainly is the type of player we’d love to have at the 4. But after back to back major injuries, I’m not sure we’d want that health risk, since we’ve lost out on a ton of major health risks on the roster right now already.

When’s Isaac supposed to return to the court?

About three months ago. Why Isaac is not yet on the court is a Mystery in Magicville. We also have no timeline on Moore or Carter-Williams. And is is semi-silent for Suggs and Fultz. This is typical for Orlando to not explain or explore to fans the injury recovery system.

For all we Magic fans know, Isaac is fully game healthy and the team is holding him out to lose games.


..

[/quote]

Oh, Yikes. We'd probably be an auto no right now, then. He's not even practicing or anything? Medically cleared? That's scary.