Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[Skybox]

I posted what I thought was a pretty ambitious package for Simmons in the Trades & Transactions thread...I gathered up the best of the "win-now" pieces for PHI (along with a pick) and shipped out Fultz to BOS (figuring he and Simmons don't fit). But, as expected, PHI fans want that star- I don't blame them for wanting it but it may not show up. Also, I really liked Fultz distributing with Tatum and Brown (the missing piece that led to most of the "breakup the Jays" talk) but there are financial implications and the problem of Smart's (and Fultz's) shooting woes...either I'm overvaluing my offerings (WCJ, Cole, TRoss) or the rest of the world is unaware of what they've been doing this year. Probably some of each...I'd be amazed if, at this point, a superstar is thrown into the mix for Simmons just because Morey didn't budge.

[zaymon]

I suppose embarrassing is one way to look at it. I tend to see it more as seizing an extremely rare opportunity. These covid protocols are providing a perfect front for protecting our off-the-charts tank job. With so many teams missing key players due to protocols, a healthy Magic roster could have strung together quite a few against these 10-days and g-leaguers, sabotaging our lottery odds. I could absolutely be wrong here, but I think management is looking to deal our pick and it’s simply easier to negotiate with a first rounder when you are the worst team in the league. Top 3 in the draft are uninspiring to us because none of them come close to filling a real need here, but someone is going to see value there.

Deal for who ? I dont see any glaring candidate. Draft is not blowing me away but Holmgren could be perfect insurance policy for Isaac health, and also would give us some monster lineups options.

I hate to say it, and no im not advocating for it, but the big one to me is Ben Simmons
Fits most the attributes we looks for

Young
wingspan
positionless
elite defense
High upside
**Cant shoot** (i kid i kid )

I could see a situation WeHam being intrigued by a deal that looks something like

Ben Simmons
76ers 1st rounder

For
T-Ross
Garry Harris
our unprotected 1st rounder

Funny part is, the contracts even out perfectly in that deal, Ross (12.5m), Harris (20m) for Simmons (33m)

Also, isnt he the best type of player to include in a lineup with a Cole and Suggs backcourt? He could essentially be the point-forward and let those guys focus on scoring
Not to mention a front court defense of Simmons and wagner with any competent C would be one of the best in the league

Again, not pushing for this deal, but just one that i could see WeHam being interested in

Do we really want rotten Simmons next to our sweet boy Franz ?
On a serious note that deal seems a little counterintuitive. We are going young and we deal our lotto frp while 76ers want to contend and trade for rookie who propably wont contribute much for a year or two ? It could make sense in a 3 team deal but i doubt it would make sense for us.
We are very high on character and Simmons is viewed as awful person. He could rebel once more on a rebuilding team. I doubt he cares that much about basketball. While Simmons fit with Cole is good i am higher on Suggs and there the fit is very questionable. They both cant run pick and rolls and spacing would be awful. Also if we played Simmons/Carter there is very little rim protection. Its weird thinking about it but WCJ is kind of filling Simmons role right now, he is better interior defender and he is developing faster than Ben and can shoot already. (and lot cheaper)

[MasterGMer]

I posted what I thought was a pretty ambitious package for Simmons in the Trades & Transactions thread...I gathered up the best of the "win-now" pieces for PHI (along with a pick) and shipped out Fultz to BOS (figuring he and Simmons don't fit). But, as expected, PHI fans want that star- I don't blame them for wanting it but it may not show up. Also, I really liked Fultz distributing with Tatum and Brown (the missing piece that led to most of the "breakup the Jays" talk) but there are financial implications and the problem of Smart's (and Fultz's) shooting woes...either I'm overvaluing my offerings (WCJ, Cole, TRoss) or the rest of the world is unaware of what they've been doing this year. Probably some of each...I'd be amazed if, at this point, a superstar is thrown into the mix for Simmons just because Morey didn't budge.

What is your proposal btw?

[The Effect]

Deal for who ? I dont see any glaring candidate. Draft is not blowing me away but Holmgren could be perfect insurance policy for Isaac health, and also would give us some monster lineups options.

I hate to say it, and no im not advocating for it, but the big one to me is Ben Simmons
Fits most the attributes we looks for

Young
wingspan
positionless
elite defense
High upside
**Cant shoot** (i kid i kid )

I could see a situation WeHam being intrigued by a deal that looks something like

Ben Simmons
76ers 1st rounder

For
T-Ross
Garry Harris
our unprotected 1st rounder

Funny part is, the contracts even out perfectly in that deal, Ross (12.5m), Harris (20m) for Simmons (33m)

Also, isnt he the best type of player to include in a lineup with a Cole and Suggs backcourt? He could essentially be the point-forward and let those guys focus on scoring
Not to mention a front court defense of Simmons and wagner with any competent C would be one of the best in the league

Again, not pushing for this deal, but just one that i could see WeHam being interested in

Do we really want rotten Simmons next to our sweet boy Franz ?
On a serious note that deal seems a little counterintuitive. We are going young and we deal our lotto frp while 76ers want to contend and trade for rookie who propably wont contribute much for a year or two ? It could make sense in a 3 team deal but i doubt it would make sense for us.
We are very high on character and Simmons is viewed as awful person. He could rebel once more on a rebuilding team. I doubt he cares that much about basketball. While Simmons fit with Cole is good i am higher on Suggs and there the fit is very questionable. They both cant run pick and rolls and spacing would be awful. Also if we played Simmons/Carter there is very little rim protection. Its weird thinking about it but WCJ is kind of filling Simmons role right now, he is better interior defender and he is developing faster than Ben and can shoot already. (and lot cheaper)

Maybe not exactly the best win-now deal for the 76ers, but im betting it would be the best long term move for them, especially if it becomes the #1 pick.
Think of a lineup of Embiid-J.Smith-Tobias-Seth-Maxey with a bench of TRoss, Korkmaz and Thybulle, thats a team that can challenge for best in the east soon

Normally id always take the high, top 3-5 draft pick over a player, but in this case, its a young, proven star who is still at an age where he can grow with the team, and considering its a bit of a weaker top, ill take simmons over say Jabari Smith, Paolo or Chet. Thats something i might end up regretting, but from a skill standpoint, id take my chances on him. Now youre right, he does have a bit of an attitude, and yeah maybe not the best thing you want around other young players like suggs and franz, but strictly skill, he would be a huge lift to the team

While theres many ways to play Simmons, i think the obvious would be that he would be our Draymond. The defensive star who can help out all over the court and be the facilitator on offense for Suggs, Cole and franz, and that would let us get to a point where we can compete alot quicker than a rookie from this class
Sure it would limit our rim protection, but im one who doesnt think WCjr is the long term answer at C and can be upgraded, hell if we were able to get the 76ers in that deal, use that on Mark Williams (duke), and that would solve the rim protection issues right there

[The Effect]

I posted what I thought was a pretty ambitious package for Simmons in the Trades & Transactions thread...I gathered up the best of the "win-now" pieces for PHI (along with a pick) and shipped out Fultz to BOS (figuring he and Simmons don't fit). But, as expected, PHI fans want that star- I don't blame them for wanting it but it may not show up. Also, I really liked Fultz distributing with Tatum and Brown (the missing piece that led to most of the "breakup the Jays" talk) but there are financial implications and the problem of Smart's (and Fultz's) shooting woes...either I'm overvaluing my offerings (WCJ, Cole, TRoss) or the rest of the world is unaware of what they've been doing this year. Probably some of each...I'd be amazed if, at this point, a superstar is thrown into the mix for Simmons just because Morey didn't budge.

Heres my big question to that........The Celtics werent that high on Fultz BEFORE the injury, what makes you think they would want him now?

[Skybox]

I posted what I thought was a pretty ambitious package for Simmons in the Trades & Transactions thread...I gathered up the best of the "win-now" pieces for PHI (along with a pick) and shipped out Fultz to BOS (figuring he and Simmons don't fit). But, as expected, PHI fans want that star- I don't blame them for wanting it but it may not show up. Also, I really liked Fultz distributing with Tatum and Brown (the missing piece that led to most of the "breakup the Jays" talk) but there are financial implications and the problem of Smart's (and Fultz's) shooting woes...either I'm overvaluing my offerings (WCJ, Cole, TRoss) or the rest of the world is unaware of what they've been doing this year. Probably some of each...I'd be amazed if, at this point, a superstar is thrown into the mix for Simmons just because Morey didn't budge.

Heres my big question to that........The Celtics werent that high on Fultz BEFORE the injury, what makes you think they would want him now?

If you're talking about preferring not to choose him #1 overall over Tatum several years ago...that's kind of irrelevant context. IF you're being clever with the details... Ainge is gone anyway and he was the only one in the universe that called that (kudos to him btw).

[Skybox]

Simmons, Isaac, Franz as the starting front court would be formidable defensively...the switching would be nuts. We'd need a legit shooter at the 1 and 2. I heard some stat a couple of years ago about how Luka and Simmons were MILES ahead of everyone else in the league in terms of how many shots for others they created where the shot was taken without a defender within range of the shooter...that was the year Tobias was flirting with 50/40/90...how is he looking this year? He's a DPOY candidate and a (nearly) Giannis-like bulldozer going to the rim. He can't and won't shoot - that's a problem...but he's a foundational piece if you work around that.

Any team that makes a move for Simmons needs to shape their offense around him. For us, that means Fultz is out. I'm not locked in on this, but it's easy to forget how really good Simmons is on both ends. All-NBA level and maybe even better without Embiid. If they don't have a Beal or Dame fall out of the sky, maybe we could try for it.

[pepe1991]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

[Ducklett]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

[pepe1991]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

Why? Bamba is objective trash. He had streach of like 11 games in a row where he failed to get at FT line.
At apsolute worst he is elite defender and plus passer and very good rebounder.

He can't shoot for s***t and that's just sad reality with him, but he is way more like "Dwight" than "Bamba". Elite player with clear negative aspects of his game, but Bamba is just draft bust and nothing else. Bamba will lose starting job on 7-32 team in moment Isaac returns or Okeke stops being trash. That's how bad he is. If we trying to win games today, we would probably play Lopez over him.

[Magic_Kingdom]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

Why? Bamba is objective trash. He had streach of like 11 games in a row where he failed to get at FT line.
At apsolute worst he is elite defender and plus passer and very good rebounder.

He can't shoot for s***t and that's just sad reality with him, but he is way more like "Dwight" than "Bamba". Elite player with clear negative aspects of his game, but Bamba is just draft bust and nothing else. Bamba will lose starting job on 7-32 team in moment Isaac returns or Okeke stops being trash. That's how bad he is. If we trying to win games today, we would probably play Lopez over him.

And this is Bamba in his contract year, playing for his NBA life. There is no magical switch to hit to make him something he's not. The Magic probably should've traded him over the summer when there was the *possibility* that he hadn't developed because he was in Clifford's doghouse (which many loved to claim). He would never start on a winning team, and I have said before what Pepe said -- if we were trying to win now then Lopez would be starting, not Bamba.

[fendilim]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

Ben Simmons? No way. His potential alone is exactly what we need.

[tiderulz]

Fultz had no value when he costed $8M. What makes you think he has value being payed more, being injuried for a year and still equipped with Elfrid Payton's shooting touch?

Simmons is elite player, we just don't have much to offer to get him.
btw It's not just Fultz that has no business sharing floor with Simmons. It's Suggs as well.

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

Ben Simmons? No way. His potential alone is exactly what we need.

potential? he is exactly the same player he was 5 years ago. hasnt really improved any facet of his game in 5 years.

[pepe1991]

If Simmons was on the Magic, I have a feeling you guys would hate him more than Bamba.

Ben Simmons? No way. His potential alone is exactly what we need.

potential? he is exactly the same player he was 5 years ago. hasnt really improved any facet of his game in 5 years.

If player gives you effective 15-8-7 and happends to be one of most versitale nba defenders, i really don't care if he never improves.
It's a shame that he never took game to next level because his physical profile + incredible instics he could have been one of best players nba has saw ( Lebron- Giannis type talent) but what he is today ( or in his rookie year) still makes him top 20 player in nba.

[thelead]

I would love to trade for Simmons. In fact, I would trade this year's pick for him if Philly would do it. Our roster would need restructuring but hey, talent it talent.

[tiderulz]

Ben Simmons? No way. His potential alone is exactly what we need.

potential? he is exactly the same player he was 5 years ago. hasnt really improved any facet of his game in 5 years.

If player gives you effective 15-8-7 and happends to be one of most versitale nba defenders, i really don't care if he never improves.
It's a shame that he never took game to next level because his physical profile + incredible instics he could have been one of best players nba has saw ( Lebron- Giannis type talent) but what he is today ( or in his rookie year) still makes him top 20 player in nba.

15/8/7, who cant shoot FT's very well and is a liability to close games is not a max $$ player

[VFX]

Can’t believe people are really talking about Simmons.

Is Orlando the new home of broken reclamation projects that other teams want to offload?

Dislike his deal.
Dislike his game.
Dislike his attitude.
Dislike his agent.
Dislike how every lineup has to accommodate his shortcomings.

No.

[tiderulz]

Can’t believe people are really talking about Simmons.

Is Orlando the new home of broken reclamation projects that other teams want to offload?

Dislike his deal.
Dislike his game.
Dislike his attitude.
Dislike his agent.
Dislike how every lineup has to accommodate his shortcomings.

No.

well cmon. Just hit the forum any time a player is cut from another team. You will see the "Should we sign PLAYER X to the team?"

[Gawn2TMac]

Simmons will sign with a Californian team as soon as his contract is up.

[thelead]

Can’t believe people are really talking about Simmons.

Is Orlando the new home of broken reclamation projects that other teams want to offload?

Dislike his deal.
Dislike his game.
Dislike his attitude.
Dislike his agent.
Dislike how every lineup has to accommodate his shortcomings.

No.

Yeah, I forgot about his deal. Nevermind

I'll take the game/talent though. He is highly undervalued at this point but that makes sense due to his attitude.

The reality is, he's likely going to have an attitude until he's playing for the Lakers.