2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[basketballRob]

He's like the biggest player in the starting lineup, so someone has to get the rebounds.

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Lol, case in point from a few pages ago.

Is it really just hard to admit he’s possibly a great rebounder for his position and one of the best in this class?

Especially as a few pages ago people were saying he’s not strong enough and getting pushed out of defensive situations to easily.

So which is it?

Just in denial that a PG can be a better rebounder than their rookie. I've heard one too many excuses that oh the other rookies don't have rebounders on their team so that why their rebounding numbers is better than Wagner's.....



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Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

[AaronB]

Lol, case in point from a few pages ago.

Is it really just hard to admit he’s possibly a great rebounder for his position and one of the best in this class?

Especially as a few pages ago people were saying he’s not strong enough and getting pushed out of defensive situations to easily.

So which is it?

Just in denial that a PG can be a better rebounder than their rookie. I've heard one too many excuses that oh the other rookies don't have rebounders on their team so that why their rebounding numbers is better than Wagner's.....



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Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

It is a fact that Wagner must significantly improve his rebounding.

When he does, he is on his way to a top 25-50 player in the league. He can do so much more than I expected and better than I expected.

The good news is that improved rebounding is well within his capability. He should be an 8-10 RPG player (as a floor) at his height and quickness.

[srhcan]

So whats your reasoning behind Franz winning ROM for December? It has nothing to do with record. Also, Barnes was not considerably ahead of Mobley either.

NOVEMBER
Mobley-15ppg 8rebs 2ast 2blks
Barnes- 14ppg 8rebs 4ast 1blks 1stl

Very similar numbers with a slight edge to Mobley.

Franz win ROM of DEC because both Mobley and Barnes did not play much in DEC. Mobley was among top 3 for ROM of DEC and I think he would have won it if he had played 2 more games in DEC.

At the end of NOV these were the stats of Barnes and Mobley:
Barnes : 15.4 pts, 8.1 rebs, 3.4 asts, 1.1 stls, 1.0 blks
Mobley : 14.8 pts, 8.2 rebs, 2.5 asts, 0.8 stls, 1.8 blks

As you can see above Barnes was a shoe-in for ROM of OCT & NOV but Mobely got it and the biggest reason is Mobley's team was playing much much better than Barnes's team.

The biggest reason was because Mobley had a far greater impact on the defensive end of the floor. Stop pretending it was for any other reason. ROY is not record based. That’s one of the most laughable things I’ve ever heard.

I showed you the stats of both Barnes and Mobley at the end of NOV. Please open your eyes and see them.
Barnes was beating Mobley soundly on stats alone. Barnes had better points, assists, steals and almost same rebounds. Mobley was only better in blocks. No wonder Barnes was ranked #1 in NBA Rookie Ladder for 4 weeks out of the 6 weeks of OCT & NOV. Btw for the other 2 weeks he was ranked #2.

If ROM was only about stats then Barnes had it in bag for OCT & NOV. But he did not win it which means another factor was also into play and that factor had bigger weightage than stats. And that factor was team winning and how much rookie is helping in team winning. Cavs were winning and Mobley was helping Cavs in winning games. Raptors were losing and Barnes was not able to help Raptors win. Simples.

[OrlMagic05]

Franz win ROM of DEC because both Mobley and Barnes did not play much in DEC. Mobley was among top 3 for ROM of DEC and I think he would have won it if he had played 2 more games in DEC.

At the end of NOV these were the stats of Barnes and Mobley:
Barnes : 15.4 pts, 8.1 rebs, 3.4 asts, 1.1 stls, 1.0 blks
Mobley : 14.8 pts, 8.2 rebs, 2.5 asts, 0.8 stls, 1.8 blks

As you can see above Barnes was a shoe-in for ROM of OCT & NOV but Mobely got it and the biggest reason is Mobley's team was playing much much better than Barnes's team.

The biggest reason was because Mobley had a far greater impact on the defensive end of the floor. Stop pretending it was for any other reason. ROY is not record based. That’s one of the most laughable things I’ve ever heard.

I showed you the stats of both Barnes and Mobley at the end of NOV. Please open your eyes and see them.
Barnes was beating Mobley soundly on stats alone. Barnes had better points, assists, steals and almost same rebounds. Mobley was only better in blocks. No wonder Barnes was ranked #1 in NBA Rookie Ladder for 4 weeks out of the 6 weeks of OCT & NOV. Btw for the other 2 weeks he was ranked #2.

If ROM was only about stats then Barnes had it in bag for OCT & NOV. But he did not win it which means another factor was also into play and that factor had bigger weightage than stats. And that factor was team winning and how much rookie is helping in team winning. Cavs were winning and Mobley was helping Cavs in winning games. Raptors were losing and Barnes was not able to help Raptors win. Simples.

Um am I missing something... 0.6 more points, 0.9 more asts, and 0.3stls more stls is not "soundly beating".

[srhcan]

The biggest reason was because Mobley had a far greater impact on the defensive end of the floor. Stop pretending it was for any other reason. ROY is not record based. That’s one of the most laughable things I’ve ever heard.

I showed you the stats of both Barnes and Mobley at the end of NOV. Please open your eyes and see them.
Barnes was beating Mobley soundly on stats alone. Barnes had better points, assists, steals and almost same rebounds. Mobley was only better in blocks. No wonder Barnes was ranked #1 in NBA Rookie Ladder for 4 weeks out of the 6 weeks of OCT & NOV. Btw for the other 2 weeks he was ranked #2.

If ROM was only about stats then Barnes had it in bag for OCT & NOV. But he did not win it which means another factor was also into play and that factor had bigger weightage than stats. And that factor was team winning and how much rookie is helping in team winning. Cavs were winning and Mobley was helping Cavs in winning games. Raptors were losing and Barnes was not able to help Raptors win. Simples.

Um am I missing something... 0.6 more points, 0.9 more asts, and 0.3stls more stls is not "soundly beating".

so in your logic
* averaging 0.6 more points is worst than averaging 0.6 less points
* averaging 0.9 more assists is worst than averaging 0.9 less assists
* averaging 0.3 more steals is worst than averaging 0.3 less assists

[HotelVitale]

I showed you the stats of both Barnes and Mobley at the end of NOV. Please open your eyes and see them.
Barnes was beating Mobley soundly on stats alone. Barnes had better points, assists, steals and almost same rebounds. Mobley was only better in blocks. No wonder Barnes was ranked #1 in NBA Rookie Ladder for 4 weeks out of the 6 weeks of OCT & NOV. Btw for the other 2 weeks he was ranked #2.

If ROM was only about stats then Barnes had it in bag for OCT & NOV. But he did not win it which means another factor was also into play and that factor had bigger weightage than stats. And that factor was team winning and how much rookie is helping in team winning. Cavs were winning and Mobley was helping Cavs in winning games. Raptors were losing and Barnes was not able to help Raptors win. Simples.

Um am I missing something... 0.6 more points, 0.9 more asts, and 0.3stls more stls is not "soundly beating".

so in your logic
* averaging 0.6 more points is worst than averaging 0.6 less points
* averaging 0.9 more assists is worst than averaging 0.9 less assists
* averaging 0.3 more steals is worst than averaging 0.3 less assists
:

You guys are really starting to make this board suck. You said very clearly "Barnes was beating Mobley soundly on stats alone," and then the other guy pointed out that the stats were actually pretty minimally different, not a 'sound beating.' That's defintiely right, so just own that and move on to a different/better point, don't do this disingenuous reframing thing.

[PD28]

Lol, case in point from a few pages ago.

Is it really just hard to admit he’s possibly a great rebounder for his position and one of the best in this class?

Especially as a few pages ago people were saying he’s not strong enough and getting pushed out of defensive situations to easily.

So which is it?

Just in denial that a PG can be a better rebounder than their rookie. I've heard one too many excuses that oh the other rookies don't have rebounders on their team so that why their rebounding numbers is better than Wagner's.....



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Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

Keep putting down other rookies to make yours look better hahah, keep it up! Maybe your lobbying can get him to win ROY but I doubt it.

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[HotelVitale]

Just in denial that a PG can be a better rebounder than their rookie. I've heard one too many excuses that oh the other rookies don't have rebounders on their team so that why their rebounding numbers is better than Wagner's..... Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using RealGM mobile app

Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

It is a fact that Wagner must significantly improve his rebounding. When he does, he is on his way to a top 25-50 player in the league. He can do so much more than I expected and better than I expected. The good news is that improved rebounding is well within his capability. He should be an 8-10 RPG player (as a floor) at his height and quickness.

I don't have a dog in this Barnes-Wagner fight you all have cooked up (pretty glad since it's not a good or interesting fight), but wanted to note that I don't think rebounding is something that players generally 'improve' on. Players generally stay about where they are from their rookie year on, your rebounding per minute is not nearly as variable as things like assists or shooting %s or TOs that players often improve throughout their careers. That's not true of absolutely everybody but I think it is for the vast majority of folks.

[basketballRob]

Just in denial that a PG can be a better rebounder than their rookie. I've heard one too many excuses that oh the other rookies don't have rebounders on their team so that why their rebounding numbers is better than Wagner's.....



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Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

Keep putting down other rookies to make yours look better hahah, keep it up! Maybe your lobbying can get him to win ROY but I doubt it.

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Haha. It's only the teammates that affect the stats when it's your guy. Lol

By the way, the only thing I've said is some of the other players players in lineups with a bunch of non-rebounding players. So it would be easier to put up stats.

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[Bluewaterheaven]

Ayyyoooooooo

[PD28]

Yes we've heard nearly daily that Wagner is a bad rebounder from Raptor fans and the good rebounding starting lineup doesn't make a difference. Now recently Scottie's numbers are lower recently because he has better teammates. Lol

Keep putting down other rookies to make yours look better hahah, keep it up! Maybe your lobbying can get him to win ROY but I doubt it.

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Haha. It's only the teammates that affect the stats when it's your guy. Lol

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You've seen me make that excuse for Scottie? Nope.

What's next? Wagner would get more blocks if we put him on a smaller player?

[basketballRob]

Keep putting down other rookies to make yours look better hahah, keep it up! Maybe your lobbying can get him to win ROY but I doubt it.

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Haha. It's only the teammates that affect the stats when it's your guy. Lol

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You've seen me make that excuse for Scottie? Nope.

What's next? Wagner would get more blocks if we put him on a smaller player?

All I've said is Wagner plays in a lineup where it isn't his role to rebound. Just like Scottie is currently in a lineup that's going to be hard for him to put up scoring stats. Giddey is in a lineup where his role is to rebound.

If they put Scottie as the number one scoring option, he might get 25 PPG. If Franz played with a 6'7" center and no PF, he'd average 7 RPG.





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[HoopsterJones]

Ayo Dosunmu with another impressive performance off the bench. 18 points, 5 reb, 4 ast, 3 stl +15 on/off

[DroseReturnChi]

Ayo Dosunmu with another impressive performance off the bench. 18 points, 5 reb, 4 ast, 3 stl +15 on/off

yep hes leaving very soon for a 7 figure payday. hes a lotto pick.

[DroseReturnChi]

I think we can all agree this is an historic draft class.

As a Raptors fan, I was listening to a lot of whining when we passed on Suggs. Hindsight is 20/20.

Looking at Orlando's draft, they got two amazing rookies in Suggs and Wagner regardless of who was drafted where.

I remember when Toronto was really, really bad. One of the few things to enjoy was when we had a promising rookie.

This draft class we're looking at nearly twenty promising rookies. That's insane.

this is not a historic draft not even close to 2003. 1 superstar mobley that can match lebron/wade/melo but rest is super deep close to 2020.

[Dez]

Ayo Dosunmu with another impressive performance off the bench. 18 points, 5 reb, 4 ast, 3 stl +15 on/off

yep hes leaving very soon for a 7 figure payday. hes a lotto pick.

Except for the fact he's contracted through 22-23 and is then a RFA.

[Hoop Heavy]

It took a little while for Nick Nurse to get him settled with the simpler parts of the game before they let him be the lead ball handler on a bench unit, but now you see it happening regularly. It is obvious to me, that this is situational and may change at any time ... but right now Scottie, who is technically a forward, is sometimes playing point guard on offense while playing center on defense. It's so weird.


Now Scottie is running a second unit full of totally long guys. He's so young and just scratching the surface. Those no look bullet passes to guys under the rim, wow.



I know there was that one playoff series where Magic played center .... and then of course, was still Magic on offense,

Still, I think 95% of his career (and I could be way off) Magic played with real centers mostly Kareem, and was just a huge point guard.



Has anyone ever done that consistently - being point guard on offense and center on defense at the same time - for a whole season?

[_qubik]

Jokic is doing it for quite some time now

[KillMonger]

Haha. It's only the teammates that affect the stats when it's your guy. Lol

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You've seen me make that excuse for Scottie? Nope.

What's next? Wagner would get more blocks if we put him on a smaller player?

All I've said is Wagner plays in a lineup where it isn't his role to rebound. Just like Scottie is currently in a lineup that's going to be hard for him to put up scoring stats. Giddey is in a lineup where his role is to rebound.

If they put Scottie as the number one scoring option, he might get 25 PPG. If Franz played with a 6'7" center and no PF, he'd average 7 RPG.





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this is quite the rabbit hole for something that isn't that deep...it isn't hard to understand that you might not get many boards when you're on the perimeter most of the time and he isn't required to crash the boards....what he's doing is just fine for his role, why is this even an argument? i mean am i missing something?

[kobe tier]

also Draymond is the obvious one besides Jokic