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Blow It Up

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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#41 » by Hal14 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:03 pm

canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero.

what does that have to do with anything?

Most of those 17 championships were won a long time ago. This is 2022. The league is way different now. Wake up, man. There's a TON the league has done over the years to improve competitive balance. 30 teams in the league today - all 30 teams play the same number of home games. All 30 teams have equal chance at getting good players - they all have to follow the same rules in terms f salary cap, etc. All 30 teams have good facilities, technology for breaking down film, for training their players. It's the closest it's ever been to a level playing field. There's literally zero reason why the celtics should have higher expectations than any other team.

Oh and the Hawks don't have zero championships so there goes your credibility.

The Atlanta Hawks have NEVER won an NBA championship. You just keep telling yourself the "everyone gets a trophy" type attitude.


That's the sound of your credibility going out the window..
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#42 » by ddb » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:16 pm

You would think professional basketball executives would understand that when you have a superstar talent like Jayson Tatum that draws so much attention, that you need to surround him with 4 things......

#1: A good veteran PG that can run the offense, get people in the right spots, and calm things down when they aren't going well. The Celtics do no have this player on the current roster.
#2: SHOOTERS! Tatum draws so much attention...If he had capable knock down shooters around him he would gladly pass the ball and his assists numbers would skyrocket. As would his efficiency. The Celtics do not have these players on the roster.
#3: A big man that can anchor the interior defense and be a roll man on O...Check. We have that in Timelord....
#4: A veteran bench with players who understand what their role is and know when & how their number will be called. The Celtics do not have a good bench....the current players, especially the younger players have ZERO idea what their role is or if they will even hear their number called by the teams terrible head coach.

How to fix things.....we can call it a "Blow up" or a "retool"....I prefer the retool. Listen, if you read my non covid posts, which I hope you do, you already know how I feel about Jaylen Brown. Awesome player. Multiple time All-Star in the making that is entering his prime. He's awesome....no doubt about it. But he's not Jayson Tatum...and he also plays the same position as Tatum. Here's the other thing about Jaylen....He has tunnel vision. He is extremely gifted, but not with vision. Anyway, factoring in his contract, skill, age, and period of time we are experiencing in the NBA, Jaylen's value is HIGH. High enough to where if Brad Stevens had nuts, he could trade him to the highest bidder for a franchise altering package. Mark my words.
Next, enough of Marcus Smart. He's had a good run....a run that features zero championships.... Trade him. He thinks he's better then he is. For all the good, there's equally as much bad if not more.

Between Brown, Horford, Smart, Schroder, Richardson, Juancho, (everyone is on the table besides Tatum), Brad can have a fire sale and bring in guys that fit much better around Tatum. O, and make sure Beal is a Celtic...He's a stud and he and Tatum will be awesome playing together. Plus they will be happy.

Brown/Horford to Sacto for Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, pick or two. Halliburton gives you a 6'5 PG that shoots over 40% from 3...team guy. not a me guy. Coaches dream. Barnes gives you a veteran forward shoots it over 40% from deep. defends multiple positions. Not a long-term play, but a solid player and contract that can help now but be a piece in an offseason trade. Or a holdover if other guys are dealt. Hield needs a good situation. you put him on the 2nd unit and let him fire away....he will carry you to wins some nights. he's the microwave offense and 6th man Boston would love.

Smart & Pritchard, future pick if needed to Memphis for Tyus Jones & Zaire Williams.....Memphis loves Smart type guys. Tony Allen had a great run there. Good city for Marcus. Pritchard would do well there too backing up Morant. Boston gets a rock steady backup PG in Jones who shoots it way better than Smart. Zaire Williams is going to be a stud IMO. Boston can develop him and be patient with him. He has big time potential.

Schroder for two 2nds or a young piece.

Richardson/Ziare Williams/Hield/3 1sts for Beal if Beal becomes available. Or maybe there's a better way to grab him via S/T in the offseason if he demands his way to Boston where Boston gives up less.

Fill out the roster in the offseason with the right guys that can fill roles I mention above around Tatum/Beal.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#43 » by canman1971 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:23 pm

Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:what does that have to do with anything?

Most of those 17 championships were won a long time ago. This is 2022. The league is way different now. Wake up, man. There's a TON the league has done over the years to improve competitive balance. 30 teams in the league today - all 30 teams play the same number of home games. All 30 teams have equal chance at getting good players - they all have to follow the same rules in terms f salary cap, etc. All 30 teams have good facilities, technology for breaking down film, for training their players. It's the closest it's ever been to a level playing field. There's literally zero reason why the celtics should have higher expectations than any other team.

Oh and the Hawks don't have zero championships so there goes your credibility.

The Atlanta Hawks have NEVER won an NBA championship. You just keep telling yourself the "everyone gets a trophy" type attitude.


That's the sound of your credibility going out the window..

You do realize that is St. Louis right?
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#44 » by BlameTheRefs » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:28 pm

Trade everyone. Start it all over from scratch.


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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#45 » by Hal14 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:31 pm

canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:The Atlanta Hawks have NEVER won an NBA championship. You just keep telling yourself the "everyone gets a trophy" type attitude.


That's the sound of your credibility going out the window..

You do realize that is St. Louis right?

lol yeah no kidding. same team, same franchise.

You think Nets fans completely disregard their entire history as a franchise before the move to brooklyn? lol

Your original post in this exchange said "Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero."

Notice you said Hawks. Not Atlanta Hawks. You must have added the atlanta part when you realized you were wrong lol

I guarantee you, you try telling any Hawks fan they have 0 NBA titles and they'll look at you like you have 10 heads lol that title in 58 counts.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#46 » by canman1971 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:42 pm

Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
That's the sound of your credibility going out the window..

You do realize that is St. Louis right?

lol yeah no kidding. same team, same franchise.

You think Nets fans completely disregard their entire history as a franchise before the move to brooklyn? lol

Your original post in this exchange said "Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero."

Notice you said Hawks. Not Atlanta Hawks. You must have added the atlanta part when you realized you were wrong lol

I guarantee you, you try telling any Hawks fan they have 0 NBA titles and they'll look at you like you have 10 heads lol that title in 58 counts.

You are not smart enough for me to continue with this.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#47 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jan 7, 2022 8:47 pm

Russell got hurt just so the Hawks could have one.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#48 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 9:00 pm

I would say a shake up over a blow up. To me a blow up means starting from scratch. I do think the Tatum/Brown duo needs to come to an end.

The issue I have with them is they dont make each other worse, as in I dont think they're a bad fit with each other. But they dont make each other better and I dont think they're a good fit either.

I think its tough when your two primary guys arent good facilitators. Tatum shows flashes but its clear that his mindset and skill set is based around scoring. While Brown just isnt a good facilitator. Ideally you'd want one of them to be a better facilitator and someone with a more willing passing play style.

Because right now I think many teams just look at it as when Tatum gets the ball its his turn to score. When Brown gets the ball, its his turn to score. Then your best facilitator is probably Smart and teams arent worried about his ability to score. There is just very little versatility with the players.

I think a good step would be ending the Tatum/Brown duo and bringing in a player that has a little more versatility with their offensive game.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#49 » by sam_I_am » Fri Jan 7, 2022 9:14 pm

I believe in Tatum/Brown. I think RW is a huge asset. I like Smart but he is a role player and may have to be moved like everybody else.

This team needs an elite playmaker and ball distributor. My preference is to keep Tatum/Brown to pair with that guy.

I personally think Tatum/Brown/Simmons would be dominant if surrounded with more shooters. PP/brown/Tatum/RW/Simmons would be interesting to me for example with a 6-10 pure shooter to replace RW at times and a guy like Nesmith was supposed to be instead of PP to close out games.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#50 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jan 7, 2022 9:19 pm

It's fine to have an "elite playmaker" but except for Chris Paul and LeBron James, there is no player in the world to whom Tatum or Brown would defer. They want the ball and will win on their own terms come hell or high water.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#51 » by chrisab123 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 9:20 pm

truth18 wrote:End this failed experiment. Tatum and Brown era is done.

Discuss:


If you trade Tatum get ready to not have a guy like that for a while. Anyone else remember the post Bird pre Antoine Walker Celtics...

I'm sure we will love watching that again.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#52 » by Bohemian » Fri Jan 7, 2022 9:20 pm

ddb wrote:You would think professional basketball executives would understand that when you have a superstar talent like Jayson Tatum that draws so much attention, that you need to surround him with 4 things......

#1: A good veteran PG that can run the offense, get people in the right spots, and calm things down when they aren't going well. The Celtics do no have this player on the current roster.
#2: SHOOTERS! Tatum draws so much attention...If he had capable knock down shooters around him he would gladly pass the ball and his assists numbers would skyrocket. As would his efficiency. The Celtics do not have these players on the roster.
#3: A big man that can anchor the interior defense and be a roll man on O...Check. We have that in Timelord....
#4: A veteran bench with players who understand what their role is and know when & how their number will be called. The Celtics do not have a good bench....the current players, especially the younger players have ZERO idea what their role is or if they will even hear their number called by the teams terrible head coach.

How to fix things.....we can call it a "Blow up" or a "retool"....I prefer the retool. Listen, if you read my non covid posts, which I hope you do, you already know how I feel about Jaylen Brown. Awesome player. Multiple time All-Star in the making that is entering his prime. He's awesome....no doubt about it. But he's not Jayson Tatum...and he also plays the same position as Tatum. Here's the other thing about Jaylen....He has tunnel vision. He is extremely gifted, but not with vision. Anyway, factoring in his contract, skill, age, and period of time we are experiencing in the NBA, Jaylen's value is HIGH. High enough to where if Brad Stevens had nuts, he could trade him to the highest bidder for a franchise altering package. Mark my words.
Next, enough of Marcus Smart. He's had a good run....a run that features zero championships.... Trade him. He thinks he's better then he is. For all the good, there's equally as much bad if not more.

Between Brown, Horford, Smart, Schroder, Richardson, Juancho, (everyone is on the table besides Tatum), Brad can have a fire sale and bring in guys that fit much better around Tatum. O, and make sure Beal is a Celtic...He's a stud and he and Tatum will be awesome playing together. Plus they will be happy.

Brown/Horford to Sacto for Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, pick or two. Halliburton gives you a 6'5 PG that shoots over 40% from 3...team guy. not a me guy. Coaches dream. Barnes gives you a veteran forward shoots it over 40% from deep. defends multiple positions. Not a long-term play, but a solid player and contract that can help now but be a piece in an offseason trade. Or a holdover if other guys are dealt. Hield needs a good situation. you put him on the 2nd unit and let him fire away....he will carry you to wins some nights. he's the microwave offense and 6th man Boston would love.

Smart & Pritchard, future pick if needed to Memphis for Tyus Jones & Zaire Williams.....Memphis loves Smart type guys. Tony Allen had a great run there. Good city for Marcus. Pritchard would do well there too backing up Morant. Boston gets a rock steady backup PG in Jones who shoots it way better than Smart. Zaire Williams is going to be a stud IMO. Boston can develop him and be patient with him. He has big time potential.

Schroder for two 2nds or a young piece.

Richardson/Ziare Williams/Hield/3 1sts for Beal if Beal becomes available. Or maybe there's a better way to grab him via S/T in the offseason if he demands his way to Boston where Boston gives up less.

Fill out the roster in the offseason with the right guys that can fill roles I mention above around Tatum/Beal.


I like your Sacramento idea. We add a great PG, a shooter and a solid wing...plus a draft pick
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#53 » by BostonCouchGM » Sat Jan 8, 2022 1:21 am

ddb wrote:You would think professional basketball executives would understand that when you have a superstar talent like Jayson Tatum that draws so much attention, that you need to surround him with 4 things......

#1: A good veteran PG that can run the offense, get people in the right spots, and calm things down when they aren't going well. The Celtics do no have this player on the current roster.
#2: SHOOTERS! Tatum draws so much attention...If he had capable knock down shooters around him he would gladly pass the ball and his assists numbers would skyrocket. As would his efficiency. The Celtics do not have these players on the roster.
#3: A big man that can anchor the interior defense and be a roll man on O...Check. We have that in Timelord....
#4: A veteran bench with players who understand what their role is and know when & how their number will be called. The Celtics do not have a good bench....the current players, especially the younger players have ZERO idea what their role is or if they will even hear their number called by the teams terrible head coach.

How to fix things.....we can call it a "Blow up" or a "retool"....I prefer the retool. Listen, if you read my non covid posts, which I hope you do, you already know how I feel about Jaylen Brown. Awesome player. Multiple time All-Star in the making that is entering his prime. He's awesome....no doubt about it. But he's not Jayson Tatum...and he also plays the same position as Tatum. Here's the other thing about Jaylen....He has tunnel vision. He is extremely gifted, but not with vision. Anyway, factoring in his contract, skill, age, and period of time we are experiencing in the NBA, Jaylen's value is HIGH. High enough to where if Brad Stevens had nuts, he could trade him to the highest bidder for a franchise altering package. Mark my words.
Next, enough of Marcus Smart. He's had a good run....a run that features zero championships.... Trade him. He thinks he's better then he is. For all the good, there's equally as much bad if not more.

Between Brown, Horford, Smart, Schroder, Richardson, Juancho, (everyone is on the table besides Tatum), Brad can have a fire sale and bring in guys that fit much better around Tatum. O, and make sure Beal is a Celtic...He's a stud and he and Tatum will be awesome playing together. Plus they will be happy.

Brown/Horford to Sacto for Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, pick or two. Halliburton gives you a 6'5 PG that shoots over 40% from 3...team guy. not a me guy. Coaches dream. Barnes gives you a veteran forward shoots it over 40% from deep. defends multiple positions. Not a long-term play, but a solid player and contract that can help now but be a piece in an offseason trade. Or a holdover if other guys are dealt. Hield needs a good situation. you put him on the 2nd unit and let him fire away....he will carry you to wins some nights. he's the microwave offense and 6th man Boston would love.

Smart & Pritchard, future pick if needed to Memphis for Tyus Jones & Zaire Williams.....Memphis loves Smart type guys. Tony Allen had a great run there. Good city for Marcus. Pritchard would do well there too backing up Morant. Boston gets a rock steady backup PG in Jones who shoots it way better than Smart. Zaire Williams is going to be a stud IMO. Boston can develop him and be patient with him. He has big time potential.

Schroder for two 2nds or a young piece.

Richardson/Ziare Williams/Hield/3 1sts for Beal if Beal becomes available. Or maybe there's a better way to grab him via S/T in the offseason if he demands his way to Boston where Boston gives up less.

Fill out the roster in the offseason with the right guys that can fill roles I mention above around Tatum/Beal.


We DO have all the things necessary we just need Ime to start Pritchard and it all falls into place. We’ve got the PG who keeps everyone in line, we have shooters next to Tatum (PP, Brown, Grant) and we have veterans and depth holding down the fort. Problem is, too many people that clearly don’t know basketball think Pritchard is a bum and sadly Ime agrees with them
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#54 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:24 am

Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Really not seeing how it's a poor analogy

Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero.

what does that have to do with anything?

Most of those 17 championships were won a long time ago. This is 2022. The league is way different now. Wake up, man. There's a TON the league has done over the years to improve competitive balance. 30 teams in the league today - all 30 teams play the same number of home games. All 30 teams have equal chance at getting good players - they all have to follow the same rules in terms f salary cap, etc. All 30 teams have good facilities, technology for breaking down film, for training their players. It's the closest it's ever been to a level playing field. There's literally zero reason why the celtics should have higher expectations than any other team.

Oh and the Hawks don't have zero championships so there goes your credibility.
Celtics have 1 championship as far as I'm concerned.

And it was PRIOR to this 3 point era.

No one gives a **** that the Celtics have 17 rings. As of today, this organization is way way closer to the Hawks than it is to the outdated prestigious organization worthy of respect some people think it is.

The Celtics are a team that have won ONE ring in the last 35 years. Haven't contended in today's modern era. Has a reputation as the team of a racist town, who players evidentially don't like playing for.



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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#55 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:25 am

canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero.

what does that have to do with anything?

Most of those 17 championships were won a long time ago. This is 2022. The league is way different now. Wake up, man. There's a TON the league has done over the years to improve competitive balance. 30 teams in the league today - all 30 teams play the same number of home games. All 30 teams have equal chance at getting good players - they all have to follow the same rules in terms f salary cap, etc. All 30 teams have good facilities, technology for breaking down film, for training their players. It's the closest it's ever been to a level playing field. There's literally zero reason why the celtics should have higher expectations than any other team.

Oh and the Hawks don't have zero championships so there goes your credibility.

The Atlanta Hawks have NEVER won an NBA championship. You just keep telling yourself the "everyone gets a trophy" type attitude.
As far as today's league and organizational respect goes..today, Celtics winning 17 rings is as meaningless as the Hawks winning 0 rings





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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#56 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:28 am

ddb wrote:You would think professional basketball executives would understand that when you have a superstar talent like Jayson Tatum that draws so much attention, that you need to surround him with 4 things......

#1: A good veteran PG that can run the offense, get people in the right spots, and calm things down when they aren't going well. The Celtics do no have this player on the current roster.
#2: SHOOTERS! Tatum draws so much attention...If he had capable knock down shooters around him he would gladly pass the ball and his assists numbers would skyrocket. As would his efficiency. The Celtics do not have these players on the roster.
#3: A big man that can anchor the interior defense and be a roll man on O...Check. We have that in Timelord....
#4: A veteran bench with players who understand what their role is and know when & how their number will be called. The Celtics do not have a good bench....the current players, especially the younger players have ZERO idea what their role is or if they will even hear their number called by the teams terrible head coach.

How to fix things.....we can call it a "Blow up" or a "retool"....I prefer the retool. Listen, if you read my non covid posts, which I hope you do, you already know how I feel about Jaylen Brown. Awesome player. Multiple time All-Star in the making that is entering his prime. He's awesome....no doubt about it. But he's not Jayson Tatum...and he also plays the same position as Tatum. Here's the other thing about Jaylen....He has tunnel vision. He is extremely gifted, but not with vision. Anyway, factoring in his contract, skill, age, and period of time we are experiencing in the NBA, Jaylen's value is HIGH. High enough to where if Brad Stevens had nuts, he could trade him to the highest bidder for a franchise altering package. Mark my words.
Next, enough of Marcus Smart. He's had a good run....a run that features zero championships.... Trade him. He thinks he's better then he is. For all the good, there's equally as much bad if not more.

Between Brown, Horford, Smart, Schroder, Richardson, Juancho, (everyone is on the table besides Tatum), Brad can have a fire sale and bring in guys that fit much better around Tatum. O, and make sure Beal is a Celtic...He's a stud and he and Tatum will be awesome playing together. Plus they will be happy.

Brown/Horford to Sacto for Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, pick or two. Halliburton gives you a 6'5 PG that shoots over 40% from 3...team guy. not a me guy. Coaches dream. Barnes gives you a veteran forward shoots it over 40% from deep. defends multiple positions. Not a long-term play, but a solid player and contract that can help now but be a piece in an offseason trade. Or a holdover if other guys are dealt. Hield needs a good situation. you put him on the 2nd unit and let him fire away....he will carry you to wins some nights. he's the microwave offense and 6th man Boston would love.

Smart & Pritchard, future pick if needed to Memphis for Tyus Jones & Zaire Williams.....Memphis loves Smart type guys. Tony Allen had a great run there. Good city for Marcus. Pritchard would do well there too backing up Morant. Boston gets a rock steady backup PG in Jones who shoots it way better than Smart. Zaire Williams is going to be a stud IMO. Boston can develop him and be patient with him. He has big time potential.

Schroder for two 2nds or a young piece.

Richardson/Ziare Williams/Hield/3 1sts for Beal if Beal becomes available. Or maybe there's a better way to grab him via S/T in the offseason if he demands his way to Boston where Boston gives up less.

Fill out the roster in the offseason with the right guys that can fill roles I mention above around Tatum/Beal.
Yup

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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#57 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:40 am

canman1971 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:The Celtics are not the Hawks. Get real. Hawks are happy with mediocracy. What a poor analogy.

Really not seeing how it's a poor analogy

Celtics= 17 championships. Hawks=zero.


Actually, the Hawks beat the Celtics in the Finals Russell's second season, after he sprained his ankle.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#58 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:46 am

Curmudgeon wrote:Russell got hurt just so the Hawks could have one.


And the Hawks won with the help of 1 or 2 HoFers the Cs traded for the draft pick used on Russell.

Not coincidentally, the St. Louis Hawks felt it appropriate to maintain an all-white team.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#59 » by jumblin » Sat Jan 8, 2022 5:00 am

Tatum is the guy who should go for several reasons:

-He will bring the biggest return and jump start a rebuild
-If he stays, his poor attitude remains the foundation of the team, corrupting anyone new you bring in
-His value is only decreasing as the rest of the league sees he is not a winner

Build around JB, Timelord and Smart. Brad should return as a coach. Ime is only here because of Tatum anyway.
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Re: Blow It Up 

Post#60 » by gocelts » Sat Jan 8, 2022 5:11 am

Get a new coach. Try one more time, then split up the Js if it doesn’t work.

Blowing it up won’t do anything as Ime won’t be able to improve a young team.
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