TNT Inside the NBA on the Pistons

[bjones521]

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Agree that the Pistons aren't playing hard or they are just bad? Diallo and Bey do seem somewhat disinterested since everyone has come back. Special K mentioned in the last game how Bey didn't take any shots.

[bjones521]

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[bjones521]

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[gusman]

When the season first started I was excited to watch this team, but the current brand of basketball they are playing is god awful. All isolation and jacking threes. They can protect Casey and say it’s not his fault, but in the end it’s his job to hold the team accountable for effort.

[TPA]

So, the team does not compete, Casey is a good coach, and the team's struggle is on the players. Got it.

[Manocad]

When the season first started I was excited to watch this team, but the current brand of basketball they are playing is god awful. All isolation and jacking threes. They can protect Casey and say it’s not his fault, but in the end it’s his job to hold the team accountable for effort.

Actually the offense has looked a lot different--and often better--in the last handful of games due to different personnel being used because of Covid protocols. When Walton was running the point even the scrubs played well.

I don't think it's fair to try to hold the players totally accountable for a perceived lack of effort if they're being asked to do nothing but run iso and shoot 3's if those aren't their strongest skill sets. And conceptually that's a two-fold point--failing to successfully do something you're not good at shouldn't be considered a lack of effort. Similarly, being forced to do something you know you're not good at will naturally lead to less than 100% effort. And from an effort standpoint that's as much Casey's fault as the player's.

[Sort]

I'm actually impressed they took the effort to even watch some of that game from a Piston's perspective. As a fan, I couldn't even stomach a few minutes. Pistons have multiple layers of issues, but the most glaring to me is how much more engaging and fun they were with replacement players.

I'm not on the team or a reporter, but from where I sit, there's some serious discord - not of the personal nature necessarily - between the players on this team and then also between players and coach. I mean Bey had much better vibes playing with Micah Somebody and Walter Don't Remember than he does with Killian and Stew.

You combine that with youth, limited athleticism and skills, and meh to below average coaching, and you have a team in need of a new captain, a new direction, not just some more PT for their young ones.

[JLiv]

I'm actually impressed they took the effort to even watch some of that game from a Piston's perspective. As a fan, I couldn't even stomach a few minutes. Pistons have multiple layers of issues, but the most glaring to me is how much more engaging and fun they were with replacement players.

I'm not on the team or a reporter, but from where I sit, there's some serious discord - not of the personal nature necessarily - between the players on this team and then also between players and coach. I mean Bey had much better vibes playing with Micah Somebody and Walter Don't Remember than he does with Killian and Stew.

You combine that with youth, limited athleticism and skills, and meh to below average coaching, and you have a team in need of a new captain, a new direction, not just some more PT for their young ones.

This is probably a stretch so don’t comment saying it’s a stretch….. but Saddiq and Hami never testing positive COULD mean they simply don’t hang around the Cade/Killian/Isaiah trio. Saddiq for sure sees himself as the #1 option with Jerami out. This is a recent tweet from one of his old coaches / mentors lol

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[zeebneeb]

One could argue that the effort isn't there because the players are not being used to their strengths in Casey's "system", and are going thru the motions.

Yes, I am blaming Casey for the teams failings. I have argued before that if you take a top tier coach, and he was coaching this season, this team would look a hell of a lot better, and the record would be a hell of a lot better.

Player's lack of effort? They loathe Casey's "system", so they don't play as hard. It's like any workplace. Productivity always lands on the leaders.

Besides that, they may believe that changes are coming(I mean they are, this is not a finished product)and Casey is on borrowed time. So why give it an honest go?

[ComboGuardCity]

I'm actually impressed they took the effort to even watch some of that game from a Piston's perspective. As a fan, I couldn't even stomach a few minutes. Pistons have multiple layers of issues, but the most glaring to me is how much more engaging and fun they were with replacement players.

I'm not on the team or a reporter, but from where I sit, there's some serious discord - not of the personal nature necessarily - between the players on this team and then also between players and coach. I mean Bey had much better vibes playing with Micah Somebody and Walter Don't Remember than he does with Killian and Stew.

You combine that with youth, limited athleticism and skills, and meh to below average coaching, and you have a team in need of a new captain, a new direction, not just some more PT for their young ones.

This is probably a stretch so don’t comment saying it’s a stretch….. but Saddiq and Hami never testing positive COULD mean they simply don’t hang around the Cade/Killian/Isaiah trio. Saddiq for sure sees himself as the #1 option with Jerami out. This is a recent tweet from one of his old coaches / mentors lol

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Every NBA player thinks they could be a#1 option so I don’t think that adds to the point. I disagree with the inside guys here. By and large the guys play hard, but we just saw a bad b2b. If you watch the majority of games, we have hard workers. The talent is just severely lacking. We have by far the worst talent pool in the NBA….and it’s by design

[bjones521]

I'm actually impressed they took the effort to even watch some of that game from a Piston's perspective. As a fan, I couldn't even stomach a few minutes. Pistons have multiple layers of issues, but the most glaring to me is how much more engaging and fun they were with replacement players.

I'm not on the team or a reporter, but from where I sit, there's some serious discord - not of the personal nature necessarily - between the players on this team and then also between players and coach. I mean Bey had much better vibes playing with Micah Somebody and Walter Don't Remember than he does with Killian and Stew.

You combine that with youth, limited athleticism and skills, and meh to below average coaching, and you have a team in need of a new captain, a new direction, not just some more PT for their young ones.

I 100% agree with this. im not sure what it is...wether its Casey coming back or the starters but something just isn't right. I do remember earlier in the season Special K saying that the bench players were dominating the starters in practice. Maybe the team doesn't feel like Steward or Hayes should be starting?? Maybe the team hates running Caseys offense? This could be a reach but NO NBA team should be getting beat as bad as we are. We dont even compete.

[bstein14]

There was clearly some early season lockerroom and chemistry issues when Diallo wasnt getting minutes. When you see someone getting a starting spot and starter minutes and not earning it and you are sitting on the bench not playing while outperforming them in practice it sets a bad precedent and hurts your team culture by not rewarding the guys who earned minutes with minutes.

[gusman]

I don’t know at what point Stewart was named a starter and future star. Bey was ordained a franchise player. And Jillian has sucked from day one. It’s like this all was just drummed up over time with no real support.

[gusman]

I don’t even know if Hayes and Stewart could fetch a first round pick traded together at this point. Sad.

[edmunder_prc]

There was clearly some early season lockerroom and chemistry issues when Diallo wasnt getting minutes. When you see someone getting a starting spot and starter minutes and not earning it and you are sitting on the bench not playing while outperforming them in practice it sets a bad precedent and hurts your team culture by not rewarding the guys who earned minutes with minutes.

Yeah two years of destroying Killian Hayes in practice and not seeing the floor - no fun. Maybe thats why Pistons keep bringing back guys like McGruder. He's thankful to being the team, parrots all of Caseys BS. My guess is if the Pistons showcased McGruder and started him, gave him 30 minutes a game, he would look better than Hayes.

Then take a guy like Diallo who already is way better than Hayes, who also has a ton of upside, gets a a bunch of DNP.

Hayes can "develop" playing 20 minutes a game coming off the bench. If he doesnt suck that game, play him more. The idea that he HAS to start or he wont get better is a stupid AF argument. Not playing him, sure thats a bad idea, already sunk a top pick in him. He can play his ass off and earn more than 20 minutes a game being the backup PG. Cade is the PG of the team.

Cade
Diallo
Bey
Olynyk
Stewart

Hayes
Frank Jackson
Josh Jackson
Lyles
Garza

Backups have plenty of shooting for Hayes to pass to. If he learns how to score inside the arc he can do that too. Otherwise Frank and Josh can shoot all they want.

[Snakebites]

I have a dream that one day there will be more to talk about on these forums than arguing about why the team sucks.

I don't blame the posters here, to be clear. That IS all there is to talk about. It's just frustrating.

[Laimbeer]

We're Cade, a couple decent vets, a couple of decent young players, and a big bag of manure. Casey doesn't seem to be doing anything to inspire or develop this team. I wouldn't be surprised if Cade already has one eye on free agency. And I don't think there's a great chance of him becoming elite, anyway.

This team has been mismanaged and drafted terribly for a long time. Often when I try to watch a game I don't last long.

[breezypeezy]

There was clearly some early season lockerroom and chemistry issues when Diallo wasnt getting minutes. When you see someone getting a starting spot and starter minutes and not earning it and you are sitting on the bench not playing while outperforming them in practice it sets a bad precedent and hurts your team culture by not rewarding the guys who earned minutes with minutes.

Yeah two years of destroying Killian Hayes in practice and not seeing the floor - no fun. Maybe thats why Pistons keep bringing back guys like McGruder. He's thankful to being the team, parrots all of Caseys BS. My guess is if the Pistons showcased McGruder and started him, gave him 30 minutes a game, he would look better than Hayes.

Then take a guy like Diallo who already is way better than Hayes, who also has a ton of upside, gets a a bunch of DNP.

Hayes can "develop" playing 20 minutes a game coming off the bench. If he doesnt suck that game, play him more. The idea that he HAS to start or he wont get better is a stupid AF argument. Not playing him, sure thats a bad idea, already sunk a top pick in him. He can play his ass off and earn more than 20 minutes a game being the backup PG. Cade is the PG of the team.

Cade
Diallo
Bey
Olynyk
Stewart

Hayes
Frank Jackson
Josh Jackson
Lyles
Garza

Backups have plenty of shooting for Hayes to pass to. If he learns how to score inside the arc he can do that too. Otherwise Frank and Josh can shoot all they want.

I'd like that lineup, although I'd swap Garza and Stewart. Both Killian and Stewart can come off the bench.
Olynk, Garza and Diallo are going to help our offense much, much more than Killian and Stewart help defensively in a tradeoff of weaknesses.
Also lets see Walton some with Cade, I'd like to see our game with those two together.

[Pharaoh]

I knew coming into this season we would lack talent and experience and would lose a lot.

Had no issue with that.

Seeing some dudes not even compete though? Yeah ok you can have mental lapses as a young player but for minutes at a time? No!

Yeah that's on the players and effort and mindset (& youth tbh) but correcting that is on the coaching staff and Casey in particular!

As the coach you have to maintain a certain standard of effort. If dudes aren't measuring up then you pull them aside and tell them straight!

Seems to me our coaching staff is a little bit too "player friendly". Now maybe that's cause most are so young but IMO you correct that as frequently as required so they grasp the concept now!

That way once the roster actually is ready to compete you're not trying to undo that bad habit

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Cowology]

I knew coming into this season we would lack talent and experience and would lose a lot.

Had no issue with that.

Seeing some dudes not even compete though? Yeah ok you can have mental lapses as a young player but for minutes at a time? No!

Yeah that's on the players and effort and mindset (& youth tbh) but correcting that is on the coaching staff and Casey in particular!

As the coach you have to maintain a certain standard of effort. If dudes aren't measuring up then you pull them aside and tell them straight!

Seems to me our coaching staff is a little bit too "player friendly". Now maybe that's cause most are so young but IMO you correct that as frequently as required so they grasp the concept now!

That way once the roster actually is ready to compete you're not trying to undo that bad habit

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

It's MUCH easier to learn a good habit than it is to unlearn bad ones. It's one of the first things we talk about that when I'm conducting "train the trainer" excersizes for leadership roles. About as basic & fundamental as it gets.

"Culture eats structure for breakfast."